IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2014-04-01

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th1areplaceafill:  That's reporting from multiple secondaries?21:24
th1aA script?21:25
th1aCan I see that?21:25
replaceafillhold on21:25
replaceafilli was thinking that we don't need the secondary instances21:27
th1aYou don't literally need to import half of SchoolTool for that?21:27
replaceafillas i was saying21:27
replaceafillwe could do the same for getting the zrs functionality21:27
replaceafillplain scripts21:28
replaceafillit's more work though21:28
replaceafillbut possible21:28
th1aDo the same what?21:28
replaceafillscripts to sync the database files21:28
th1aI'm not following you.21:29
replaceafillwe plan to set secondary instances in the central office, right?21:29
th1aThat's the idea.21:29
replaceafillsuppose they only care about the multi-school reports21:29
th1aWe could just query the primaries directly.21:29
replaceafilland not individual schools21:29
replaceafillwe could write a script to retrieve the zodb from the school using zrs21:30
th1aWhich is more work?21:30
replaceafillthe central office would have only zodbs around21:30
replaceafillnot full instances21:30
th1aOh, right.21:30
th1aThey'd need zeo running at the central office though, right?21:30
replaceafillif they have the zodbs we can access those directly21:31
th1aOK, can we start over?21:31
replaceafilli'm usually not clear on stuff ;)21:31
th1aWell, you made a quick shift on me.21:31
th1aOK, so right now, we're looking at this as if the central office would be running essentially a secondary SchoolTool server corresponding to each school's server.21:32
th1a(prior to this conversation)21:32
replaceafillwhen they start the secondary server, zrs gets in action and copies the zodb21:33
th1aAnd you're saying that a secondary server isn't necessary for zrs to copy the db.21:33
replaceafillright, that just zeo21:34
replaceafillbut you can have that in a custom script21:35
th1azeo on both ends.21:35
replaceafillthe secondary SchoolTool server just uses zeo for us21:35
th1aOK.  Yeah, that's what I thought all along.  ;-)21:35
replaceafillthen i started to think21:36
replaceafillwhy don't have schools sending zodbs around?!?! :D21:36
replaceafilli'm just not sure how zrs copies the db21:37
replaceafillis it incremental, etc?21:37
th1aIt seems to just send transactions to append.21:37
replaceafillthat's what i HOPE it's happening :)21:37
th1aI did look at some README's, believe it or not.21:38
replaceafilli know repozo does that, right?21:38
replaceafillincremental backup21:38
th1aYes... I don't know if it is exactly the same.21:39
replaceafillin any case21:39
replaceafillall of this is possible :)21:39
th1aWe could just use rsync...21:39
replaceafilldo you think the central office would be interested in accessing by school instances?21:40
th1aWhy don't you have to import schooltool objects to make that report, just because you're looking for some btree things at the top level?21:40
replaceafillit sounds unlikely to me21:40
th1aThey would like to be able to peer into individual schools, sure.21:40
replaceafillah ok21:40
replaceafillsorry i dont get your question21:41
replaceafilli added the school title just to check the annotations on the app21:41
replaceafilland persons just give you username and title21:42
replaceafillif we'd want evaluations and stuff21:42
replaceafillwe'll need to register more stuff21:42
replaceafilladapters, etc21:42
th1aPerhaps once you needed adapters...21:42
replaceafillremember the malawi script?21:42
replaceafillsome people from malawi asked us to write a custom importer21:43
replaceafillfor grades21:43
replaceafilllet me send you that21:43
replaceafillthere you can see how we hacked the SchoolToolServer21:44
replaceafillto get everything registered automatically21:44
replaceafillit's another possibility21:44
replaceafillyou just need the zodb21:44
th1aWhat do you mean by "hacked the SchoolToolServer?"21:47
replaceafillit's like starting the server21:48
replaceafillwith the proper configuration21:48
replaceafillbut it's not a server that listens, etc21:49
replaceafillit's just to get the adapters and other components going21:49
th1aWhich part is doing that?21:49
replaceafilldef set_up21:50
replaceafilland the malawi importer is written as a regular ST importer21:51
th1aOK.  I think I understand this as much as I need to.21:52
replaceafillok, i'm going to stop the zrs experimentation21:52
replaceafilli think it gave us a good overview though21:52
th1aYes, it gives us a good menu of choices to present them.21:53
replaceafilllunch time for me21:53
th1aThanks replaceafill.21:53
replaceafillthanks th1a21:53
replaceafillbb in ~1h21:53
th1areplaceafill:  We could, if we wanted to, create a read-only viewing SchoolTool that could look at the read-only db's right?23:17
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replaceafillth1a, not sure if that's possible23:22
replaceafilli think you'd get readonly errors23:22
replaceafilli'd need to check23:22
th1aWell, yes, right now.23:22
th1aI mean, how deep would that be if we wanted to make a special skin or whatever.23:23
th1a(I don't mean check right now, but it wouldn't work right now)23:23
th1aI guess part of the question is if we're constantly writing little things to the ZODB to remember what term you were looking at, etc.23:24
replaceafillstarting schooltool as readonly (using the standard setup) is not possible23:27
replaceafilli get readonly errors23:27
replaceafilljust tried23:27
th1aSo it would be a major cleanup.23:27
replaceafilllet me try with no zeo23:28
replaceafilljust zod23:28
th1aOr, we could let you switch the databases into read only.23:28
th1aOut of23:28
th1aread only, but give you a login with out editing privileges.23:28
replaceafillyeah, not possible th1a23:31
replaceafillsome part of the publication process seems to try to commit the transaction23:31
replaceafillnot sure why :(23:31
th1aIt might be easier to write a little control panel app that would let you pick a school to view that would switch zrs off and make it writable.23:33
th1aAlthough if it was committing transactions, that might be a mess too.23:34
replaceafillwhy not a little bottle app23:34
replaceafillsimilar to what remote tasks use23:34
th1aI wonder if it is just weird little bits of cruft or good reasons you need to be able to write.23:34
replaceafillin our paste configuration we do:23:35
replaceafillthis /schooltool.task_results = task_results23:35
replaceafilltask result is an entry point23:35
replaceafilldifferent to the main one23:35
replaceafilland it's where bottle views are used23:37
th1aI'm not sure what that would do in this case.23:38
replaceafillmy point is that through paste you can define separate points23:39
replaceafillthe litte control panel app could be one of them23:39
replaceafillbut again23:39
replaceafillall we need are the zodbs23:39
th1aI'm trying to figure out what we can get "for free."23:40
replaceafillzodb replication23:40
replaceafillthat's it imo23:40
th1aOK.  For cheap.23:40
th1aWhat are the low hanging fruit.23:40
th1aProbably it wouldn't be that hard to just do a custom interface for the overview.23:42
replaceafilli feel like only the sync process will take a month... :(23:47
th1aSyncing with their system?23:47
th1aIt is hard to say.23:48
th1aDoes their current system actually suck up "everything?"23:48
th1aWho knows.23:48
th1aBut yeah, it could easily take a month.  It is like the UK census.23:49
th1aIt is one reason I'd like to have a plan B.23:49
th1aEspecially if we can say, ok, zrs should get the data in usable form to the central office and provide an extra layer of backup, out of the box.23:50
th1aAnd then we can iteratively develop views and reports based on what the people on the ground need.23:50
th1aDid you look at the PEAS schools site, by the way?23:50
th1aGoing back over this, I realized this group is the real client:
th1aSo that probably explains some of the disconnect.23:51
replaceafillah i thought you meant ark23:51
replaceafillark is peas partner23:53
th1aThe initial user will be the PEAS 2 network of secondary schools in Uganda, a partner of ARK23:53
th1aInternational. Longer term we expect the system to be adopted by other networks of schools23:53
th1awithin the ARK International family.23:53
replaceafillgot it23:54
replaceafillso jose is asking them for what *they* need23:54
th1aYeah, that's the disconnect.23:56
th1aSo basically I think we need to propose also an iterative approach to reports in general, assuming these people aren't that data savvy to start with.23:56
th1aThey don't need a bunch of choices.23:57
th1aThat increase complexity for everyone including us.23:57
th1aRight out of the gate, especially.23:57

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