| *** th1a has quit IRC | 00:35 | |
| *** replaceafill has quit IRC | 00:39 | |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 02:23 | |
| *** khildin has joined #schooltool | 08:43 | |
| *** menesis has joined #schooltool | 09:53 | |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 10:46 | |
| *** menesis has joined #schooltool | 11:28 | |
| *** th1a has joined #schooltool | 15:32 | |
| *** replaceafill has joined #schooltool | 17:41 | |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 18:26 | |
| *** menesis has joined #schooltool | 18:32 | |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 20:05 | |
| replaceafill | th1a, http://pastebin.com/VzyqyHCG | 20:59 |
|---|---|---|
| *** menesis has joined #schooltool | 21:19 | |
| th1a | replaceafill: That's reporting from multiple secondaries? | 21:24 |
| replaceafill | yes | 21:25 |
| th1a | A script? | 21:25 |
| replaceafill | yes | 21:25 |
| th1a | Can I see that? | 21:25 |
| replaceafill | hold on | 21:25 |
| replaceafill | sent | 21:26 |
| replaceafill | i was thinking that we don't need the secondary instances | 21:27 |
| th1a | You don't literally need to import half of SchoolTool for that? | 21:27 |
| replaceafill | no | 21:27 |
| replaceafill | as i was saying | 21:27 |
| replaceafill | we could do the same for getting the zrs functionality | 21:27 |
| replaceafill | plain scripts | 21:28 |
| replaceafill | it's more work though | 21:28 |
| replaceafill | but possible | 21:28 |
| th1a | Do the same what? | 21:28 |
| replaceafill | scripts to sync the database files | 21:28 |
| th1a | I'm not following you. | 21:29 |
| replaceafill | we plan to set secondary instances in the central office, right? | 21:29 |
| th1a | That's the idea. | 21:29 |
| replaceafill | suppose they only care about the multi-school reports | 21:29 |
| th1a | We could just query the primaries directly. | 21:29 |
| replaceafill | and not individual schools | 21:29 |
| replaceafill | we could write a script to retrieve the zodb from the school using zrs | 21:30 |
| th1a | Which is more work? | 21:30 |
| replaceafill | the central office would have only zodbs around | 21:30 |
| replaceafill | not full instances | 21:30 |
| th1a | Oh, right. | 21:30 |
| th1a | They'd need zeo running at the central office though, right? | 21:30 |
| replaceafill | why? | 21:31 |
| replaceafill | if they have the zodbs we can access those directly | 21:31 |
| th1a | OK, can we start over? | 21:31 |
| replaceafill | :D | 21:31 |
| replaceafill | sure | 21:31 |
| replaceafill | sorry | 21:31 |
| replaceafill | i'm usually not clear on stuff ;) | 21:31 |
| th1a | Well, you made a quick shift on me. | 21:31 |
| th1a | OK, so right now, we're looking at this as if the central office would be running essentially a secondary SchoolTool server corresponding to each school's server. | 21:32 |
| th1a | Right? | 21:32 |
| th1a | (prior to this conversation) | 21:32 |
| replaceafill | sure | 21:32 |
| replaceafill | correct | 21:32 |
| replaceafill | when they start the secondary server, zrs gets in action and copies the zodb | 21:33 |
| th1a | And you're saying that a secondary server isn't necessary for zrs to copy the db. | 21:33 |
| replaceafill | right, that just zeo | 21:34 |
| replaceafill | but you can have that in a custom script | 21:35 |
| th1a | zeo on both ends. | 21:35 |
| replaceafill | the secondary SchoolTool server just uses zeo for us | 21:35 |
| replaceafill | correct | 21:35 |
| th1a | OK. Yeah, that's what I thought all along. ;-) | 21:35 |
| replaceafill | then i started to think | 21:36 |
| replaceafill | why don't have schools sending zodbs around?!?! :D | 21:36 |
| th1a | What? | 21:36 |
| replaceafill | i'm just not sure how zrs copies the db | 21:37 |
| replaceafill | is it incremental, etc? | 21:37 |
| th1a | It seems to just send transactions to append. | 21:37 |
| replaceafill | that's what i HOPE it's happening :) | 21:37 |
| th1a | I did look at some README's, believe it or not. | 21:38 |
| replaceafill | ah | 21:38 |
| replaceafill | cool | 21:38 |
| replaceafill | i know repozo does that, right? | 21:38 |
| replaceafill | incremental backup | 21:38 |
| th1a | Yes... I don't know if it is exactly the same. | 21:39 |
| replaceafill | in any case | 21:39 |
| replaceafill | all of this is possible :) | 21:39 |
| th1a | We could just use rsync... | 21:39 |
| replaceafill | do you think the central office would be interested in accessing by school instances? | 21:40 |
| th1a | Why don't you have to import schooltool objects to make that report, just because you're looking for some btree things at the top level? | 21:40 |
| replaceafill | it sounds unlikely to me | 21:40 |
| th1a | They would like to be able to peer into individual schools, sure. | 21:40 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 21:40 |
| replaceafill | sorry i dont get your question | 21:41 |
| replaceafill | ah | 21:41 |
| replaceafill | right | 21:41 |
| replaceafill | i added the school title just to check the annotations on the app | 21:41 |
| replaceafill | and persons just give you username and title | 21:42 |
| replaceafill | if we'd want evaluations and stuff | 21:42 |
| replaceafill | we'll need to register more stuff | 21:42 |
| replaceafill | adapters, etc | 21:42 |
| th1a | Perhaps once you needed adapters... | 21:42 |
| replaceafill | remember the malawi script? | 21:42 |
| replaceafill | some people from malawi asked us to write a custom importer | 21:43 |
| replaceafill | for grades | 21:43 |
| replaceafill | let me send you that | 21:43 |
| replaceafill | sent | 21:43 |
| replaceafill | there you can see how we hacked the SchoolToolServer | 21:44 |
| replaceafill | to get everything registered automatically | 21:44 |
| replaceafill | it's another possibility | 21:44 |
| replaceafill | you just need the zodb | 21:44 |
| th1a | What do you mean by "hacked the SchoolToolServer?" | 21:47 |
| replaceafill | it's like starting the server | 21:48 |
| replaceafill | with the proper configuration | 21:48 |
| replaceafill | but it's not a server that listens, etc | 21:49 |
| replaceafill | it's just to get the adapters and other components going | 21:49 |
| th1a | Which part is doing that? | 21:49 |
| replaceafill | def set_up | 21:50 |
| replaceafill | and the malawi importer is written as a regular ST importer | 21:51 |
| th1a | OK. I think I understand this as much as I need to. | 21:52 |
| replaceafill | :) | 21:52 |
| replaceafill | ok, i'm going to stop the zrs experimentation | 21:52 |
| replaceafill | i think it gave us a good overview though | 21:52 |
| th1a | Yes, it gives us a good menu of choices to present them. | 21:53 |
| replaceafill | kk | 21:53 |
| replaceafill | lunch time for me | 21:53 |
| th1a | Thanks replaceafill. | 21:53 |
| replaceafill | thanks th1a | 21:53 |
| replaceafill | bb in ~1h | 21:53 |
| th1a | replaceafill: We could, if we wanted to, create a read-only viewing SchoolTool that could look at the read-only db's right? | 23:17 |
| *** khildin has quit IRC | 23:20 | |
| replaceafill | th1a, not sure if that's possible | 23:22 |
| replaceafill | i think you'd get readonly errors | 23:22 |
| replaceafill | i'd need to check | 23:22 |
| th1a | Well, yes, right now. | 23:22 |
| th1a | I mean, how deep would that be if we wanted to make a special skin or whatever. | 23:23 |
| th1a | (I don't mean check right now, but it wouldn't work right now) | 23:23 |
| th1a | I guess part of the question is if we're constantly writing little things to the ZODB to remember what term you were looking at, etc. | 23:24 |
| replaceafill | starting schooltool as readonly (using the standard setup) is not possible | 23:27 |
| replaceafill | i get readonly errors | 23:27 |
| replaceafill | just tried | 23:27 |
| th1a | So it would be a major cleanup. | 23:27 |
| replaceafill | let me try with no zeo | 23:28 |
| replaceafill | just zod | 23:28 |
| replaceafill | zodb* | 23:28 |
| th1a | Or, we could let you switch the databases into read only. | 23:28 |
| th1a | Out of | 23:28 |
| th1a | read only, but give you a login with out editing privileges. | 23:28 |
| replaceafill | yeah, not possible th1a | 23:31 |
| replaceafill | http://pastebin.com/qyqG9KC2 | 23:31 |
| replaceafill | some part of the publication process seems to try to commit the transaction | 23:31 |
| replaceafill | not sure why :( | 23:31 |
| th1a | It might be easier to write a little control panel app that would let you pick a school to view that would switch zrs off and make it writable. | 23:33 |
| th1a | Although if it was committing transactions, that might be a mess too. | 23:34 |
| replaceafill | why not a little bottle app | 23:34 |
| replaceafill | similar to what remote tasks use | 23:34 |
| th1a | I wonder if it is just weird little bits of cruft or good reasons you need to be able to write. | 23:34 |
| replaceafill | in our paste configuration we do: | 23:35 |
| replaceafill | this /schooltool.task_results = task_results | 23:35 |
| replaceafill | task result is an entry point | 23:35 |
| replaceafill | different to the main one | 23:35 |
| replaceafill | and it's where bottle views are used | 23:37 |
| th1a | I'm not sure what that would do in this case. | 23:38 |
| replaceafill | my point is that through paste you can define separate points | 23:39 |
| replaceafill | the litte control panel app could be one of them | 23:39 |
| replaceafill | but again | 23:39 |
| replaceafill | all we need are the zodbs | 23:39 |
| replaceafill | right? | 23:39 |
| th1a | I'm trying to figure out what we can get "for free." | 23:40 |
| replaceafill | zodb replication | 23:40 |
| replaceafill | that's it imo | 23:40 |
| th1a | OK. For cheap. | 23:40 |
| th1a | What are the low hanging fruit. | 23:40 |
| th1a | Probably it wouldn't be that hard to just do a custom interface for the overview. | 23:42 |
| replaceafill | right | 23:43 |
| th1a | OK. | 23:44 |
| th1a | Cool. | 23:44 |
| replaceafill | i feel like only the sync process will take a month... :( | 23:47 |
| th1a | Syncing with their system? | 23:47 |
| replaceafill | yeah | 23:47 |
| th1a | It is hard to say. | 23:48 |
| th1a | Does their current system actually suck up "everything?" | 23:48 |
| th1a | Who knows. | 23:48 |
| th1a | But yeah, it could easily take a month. It is like the UK census. | 23:49 |
| th1a | It is one reason I'd like to have a plan B. | 23:49 |
| th1a | Especially if we can say, ok, zrs should get the data in usable form to the central office and provide an extra layer of backup, out of the box. | 23:50 |
| th1a | And then we can iteratively develop views and reports based on what the people on the ground need. | 23:50 |
| th1a | Did you look at the PEAS schools site, by the way? | 23:50 |
| replaceafill | yes | 23:51 |
| th1a | Going back over this, I realized this group is the real client: http://www.peas.org.uk/ | 23:51 |
| th1a | So that probably explains some of the disconnect. | 23:51 |
| replaceafill | ah i thought you meant ark | 23:51 |
| replaceafill | ark is peas partner | 23:53 |
| replaceafill | :O | 23:53 |
| th1a | The initial user will be the PEAS 2 network of secondary schools in Uganda, a partner of ARK | 23:53 |
| th1a | International. Longer term we expect the system to be adopted by other networks of schools | 23:53 |
| th1a | within the ARK International family. | 23:53 |
| replaceafill | got it | 23:54 |
| replaceafill | so jose is asking them for what *they* need | 23:54 |
| replaceafill | probably | 23:54 |
| th1a | Yeah, that's the disconnect. | 23:56 |
| th1a | So basically I think we need to propose also an iterative approach to reports in general, assuming these people aren't that data savvy to start with. | 23:56 |
| th1a | They don't need a bunch of choices. | 23:57 |
| th1a | That increase complexity for everyone including us. | 23:57 |
| th1a | Right out of the gate, especially. | 23:57 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!