IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2013-08-05

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th1ahi replaceafill, yvl.16:31
yvlgood morning16:31
th1aIs menesis on vacation now?16:31
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:32
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yvlI think so16:33
th1aOK.  He said he was doing the release and going on vacation, and I saw the release, so...16:34
th1areplaceafill:  How are you doing?16:35
replaceafillgood, recovered now16:35
replaceafilllost my voice for 2 days16:35
replaceafilli had a serious throat infection16:36
replaceafillth1a, did you check the url i sent you last week16:37
th1aLooks very good.16:38
replaceafillah cool16:38
th1aTwo things:16:38
th1aIdeally, if you just wanted to punch in a value an move on, there would be some way to do it.16:39
replaceafillyou mean, without displaying the combobox?16:40
th1aI was thinking more without it capturing the return.16:40
th1aJust when it came up.16:40
th1aOr alternately, if it made a best guess about selecting what should be active.16:41
th1aSo if I enter "a" the menu comes up but "A" is active so if I hit return, I go on.16:41
replaceafilli think there's an option to select a value automatically16:43
replaceafilli mean, in the combobox16:43
th1aThat might work.16:44
replaceafilli just didn't use it, because the way A+, A, and A- are sorted16:44
replaceafilldidn't feel "natural"16:44
th1aBasically, if there is a perfect or very close match, you just want to keep going.16:44
replaceafillit would if the order was "A, A+, A-..." and so on16:44
replaceafillbut currently the order is not alphabetical16:45
replaceafillwell, i'll activate the option and show you, and will remove the return capture16:46
th1aCan you sort?16:46
replaceafillit's just using the scoresystem order right now16:46
replaceafillbut this cries for being sorted alphabetical imho16:46
th1aWell... that's the right way to do it.16:46
th1aI don't think so.16:47
replaceafillwhat's the second thing? :)16:47
th1aThe round corners.16:47
replaceafillthe combobox style is default jquery-ui16:48
replaceafillincluding the corners16:48
replaceafillthe options have black borders too16:49
replaceafill(i didn't like that)16:49
th1aYeah.  I assume you can override that.16:49
replaceafilli will16:49
th1aOK.  "Flourish it." (TM)16:50
th1aWhen your UI is stinky, spray some Flourish (TM) on it!"16:50
replaceafillth1a, this is the part of the year we talk about cando xls imports...16:51
replaceafilldwelsh is back in action!16:51
th1aYes, I was trying to remember what the custom import issue was?16:52
replaceafilland he's asking if we're going to support his format for custom lists16:52
replaceafillah ok16:52
replaceafillhe has this 2011 format for importing a single course (skills)16:52
replaceafillthat's what cando 2011 used16:53
replaceafillfor him it's natural for the user to write *that* format16:53
replaceafillnot the one we currently use16:53
replaceafilllast year i helped him importing every custom list16:53
replaceafilli wrote a script for it (similar to the one i wrote for jelkner)16:54
replaceafilli haven't talked to him yet, but i think he either wants my support again doing that or he want us to include that format in cando16:55
th1aIs it more human readable, you mean?16:55
replaceafilli'm not sure16:55
replaceafillwell, yes16:55
th1aI guess it is up to you.16:56
th1aIf it is just dwelsh, maybe just running the script is easiest.16:56
replaceafillhe asked me to meet today, so i'll ask16:57
replaceafillthat's it from me16:57
th1aOK.  Back to 100% health?16:58
replaceafilland i don't have classes today and tomorrow16:58
replaceafillso i'll be here16:58
yvlgood to hear that you're ok replaceafill  :)16:58
replaceafillthanks yvl! :)16:58
th1aGreat to have you back replaceafill.16:58
yvlnew relationship implementation is dropping relationships sometimes16:59
yvlas in - all relationships :)17:00
yvllooks like persistence problem, but those are sometimes tricky to track down17:00
yvlluckily there are not many places to look at17:01
yvlother than that...17:01
yvlI almost almost have it presentable :)17:01
yvljavascript dialog is not finished / broken a bit17:02
th1aOK.  So... focus on the bug.  We'll probably have to punt this to the next release.17:02
th1aUnless you get the bug fixed by Wed, I'd say.17:02
th1aThat would be the blocker, ofc.17:03
th1aAll right, so dig into that.17:04
th1aThanks yvl.17:05
th1aI am flying to Scotland in one week.17:05
th1aSo the distraction level around here is going to be extremely high.17:05
th1aI -- and the family, for a year -- makes the distraction level VERY high.17:05
th1aBut I'll be around, so don't hesitate to ask a question.17:06
replaceafilli'll try not to set up meetings with you and dwelsh :D17:06
th1aYeah.  That would be good.17:06
th1aWe'll probably meet Mon/Thurs next week.17:07
th1aI'll have to figure out what time the meetings are!17:07
replaceafillth1a, do you plan to change the meeting time when you're in your new house?17:07
th1aI don't think so.17:07
replaceafillah ok17:07
th1aI don't think there is a reason to.17:07
yvl2:30 PM I guess :)17:08
th1aThat might have to change when school starts.17:09
th1aOK.  Thanks guys!17:11
th1aSee you Wednesday.17:11
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:11
replaceafillthanks guys17:11
replaceafillgood to see you again :)17:11
yvlthanks guys17:12
yvlsee you soon!17:12
replaceafillth1a, sorry for not sending the invoice last night (i dropped pretty early), i'll send it in a moment17:12
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pgulleyI just read over the meeting from yesterday17:23
replaceafillhello pgulley17:23
replaceafillah good17:23
pgulleysorry I couldn't be there.17:23
replaceafillwe need to talk UI reorganization i guess17:23
pgulleyYes- and import/export17:23
replaceafilldid you see my email?17:24
replaceafillcomments on your branch17:24
pgulleyyes, but jelkner seemed to have some differing thoughts with regards to how it should work17:25
pgulleyShould it then just be by-teacher, instead of system-wide?17:26
pgulleyit doesn't quite address the original issue, but it's what he wants.17:26
replaceafilli'm not sure17:29
replaceafilli guess you need to talk to him about it17:30
replaceafillthe sharing/reusing part is still confusing to me17:30
pgulleyyeah, same17:30
pgulleyokay, I'll sort that out with him17:31
pgulleybut, in the mean time- UI17:31
replaceafillregarding UI reorganization, i think you should start by filtering of quizzes17:31
replaceafillstudents should be able to filter quizzes by course17:33
replaceafillalso i'd include terms somehow17:34
pgulleywould that be something browser-side?17:34
replaceafillnot really17:35
replaceafillwe have this filter functionality for tables in place already17:35
replaceafillyou see, all those tables in the quizzes page17:36
replaceafillare different "pieces"17:36
replaceafilllook at browser/deployedquiz.zcml17:38
replaceafillright below that17:38
replaceafillthere's another viewlet17:38
replaceafillnamed "filter"17:39
replaceafillwhich currently is set to donotfilter17:39
replaceafillso, nothing is displayed/done17:39
replaceafillbut you can insert your own html and functionality17:39
replaceafilland name it "filter"17:39
replaceafilland it'll be displayed above the table17:39
replaceafillthere are plenty of examples17:39
replaceafillin your schooltool branch, look for:17:40
replaceafilland visit the /sections page in your instance17:41
pgulleyokay, cool17:43
replaceafilli was also thinking that maybe the quizzes to take and the quizzes taken tables should be in different pages17:43
replaceafillbut you can start with the filter17:44
replaceafillsee the Terms part of the /sections filter17:44
replaceafilli'd use something like that (checkboxes) for the quizzes tables too17:45
replaceafillenabling only the "current" term17:45
replaceafillso students see quizzes only for that term by default17:45
replaceafillif they need other terms, they mark the other checkboxes and so on17:45
replaceafillmakes sense?17:45
pgulleyyes, all clear17:46
replaceafillgood :)17:46
pgulleyThis makes sense, shouldn't be too much.17:47
pgulleyI'll fix all of the things you pointed out with the import/export17:47
pgulleytalk to jeff,17:47
pgulleythen jump into this UI work17:47
replaceafilluse a separate branch for the ui work17:47
replaceafillstarting from trunk ofc17:47
replaceafilli'll be around, let me know if you have questions17:48
pgulleyexcellent! thanks a bunch.17:49
pgulleyGlad you're feeling better17:49
replaceafillthanks! :)17:49
replaceafillth1a, mind if i double check the permissions using an instance?18:16
replaceafill(not just the code)18:16
th1aThat's fine.18:16
th1aI just figured they are all .edit or .view18:16
replaceafilli mean, i can read the changes in the remap, but i want to see the cando side of it18:16
th1aAlso, that was my excuse for making you do it while I pack.18:17
replaceafillhhmm it seems like we have some navigational problems18:45
replaceafillclerks have permission to add courses18:45
replaceafillbut how do they get to the /courses view18:45
replaceafillor how do they see the "Add -> Course" link18:45
th1ahi replaceafill.19:08
replaceafillhey th1a19:09
replaceafillupdating the sheet19:09
th1aWhat can't they see?19:09
replaceafillthe links19:09
replaceafillthe links context i think19:09
th1aYou just need to be clear on if you're looking at a bug or "problem."19:09
replaceafillit's a data model problem! (joke)19:10
replaceafillthese views19:10
replaceafillfreenode... /courses, /sections, /terms19:10
replaceafillanything starting with / is a command...19:10
replaceafillare registered for the application19:10
replaceafilli remember yvl complained about it19:10
replaceafilland i think this is why19:11
replaceafillthe security declaration lands explicitly on the containers19:11
replaceafillcoursecontainer, sectioncontainer19:11
replaceafillallowing the clerk to modify those19:11
replaceafillbut the views are registered on a different context, including the "add new..." links19:11
replaceafillimho the fix is to remove the /courses, /sections links and move the views to use traversal properly19:13
replaceafillnot sure how much work it is though19:14
th1aI don't understand what has changed.19:14
th1aIs there some permission the Clerks lack now?19:14
replaceafillgiving the clerks "edit" on the app would solve it i think19:15
replaceafillbut it seems like a workaround to me19:15
replaceafilljust my 0.0219:15
th1aOK, it is all lumped together on "edit" on the app, which would, I'm guessing, let them do things like add and delete years.19:16
th1aOK.  Well, the "right" fix is probably necessary then.19:17
th1aCan you file a bug for that?19:19
replaceafillbut even with the right fix, we still have some navigational issues19:19
th1aAnd note it in the spreadsheet as a bug.19:19
replaceafillthe courses view is supposed to be accesed from /manage,, right?19:19
replaceafillshould clerks have access to that?19:19
replaceafillah ok19:20
th1aClerks definitely have to view /manage.19:20
replaceafillbut not all of it, correct?19:20
th1aThat was always the premise.19:20
replaceafillno school year add for example, right?19:21
th1aYeah, but it would just be a couple things.19:21
replaceafillin the meantime i'm filling the spreadsheet ignoring this19:22
th1aWell... mark the places where there are bugs.19:23
th1aSo they know.19:23
replaceafillas usual... i wonder if i'm missing something... :)19:24
th1aDon't start fixing them though (unless there are a few trivial ones).19:24
replaceafillno, i'll definitely run this by yvl before doing anything19:24
th1ayvl may be doing it later this week, depending on how the relationship bugfix goes.19:24
replaceafillah ok19:24
th1aThe clerk needs to be able to do all the routine data entry and run all reports.19:25
th1aThe clerk is the main day to day user of the application.19:25
replaceafillhey! that's what i told dwelsh, almost same words ;)19:25
th1aI told him too.  ;-)19:25
th1aOne issue is that neither the clerk nor the site manager technically should have rights to do all the imports.19:28
replaceafillonly the va import works off the schoolyear19:30
replaceafillthe global one and skills work off the app19:30
th1aWell, you understand my point though?19:31
th1aI mean, it seems like there should already be a check at the object level that is throwing a warning?19:32
th1aOr does the site manager actually ave rights for all the objects in the spreadsheet.19:32
replaceafillglenda's spreadsheet?19:33
replaceafillnot, not on all of them19:33
th1aI mean, the standard import spreadsheet.19:34
th1aDoes the site manager have permission to create all those objects?19:34
replaceafillnot really19:35
replaceafillagain, course container for example19:35
replaceafilledit just for clerks19:35
replaceafillbut these permissions (in security declarations) are for views19:36
replaceafilli mean, practically19:36
th1aSo in theory we could add permissions at the object level but that would be a lot of work just to tidy up this issue.19:38
th1aIn practice, we just need to decide who's going to be allowed to run the imports.19:38
th1aSince you can't delete data in the imports, realistically it could just be both site managers and clerks.19:39
replaceafillalso, i'd remove the super-user remark in the security page19:41
replaceafillto me, the default user is not that super anymore19:41
th1aWhat has changed?19:42
replaceafilli mean, you start with a fresh database, right?19:43
replaceafillhe can add the school year19:43
replaceafillbut as soon as you try to add a course19:43
replaceafillyou get the forbidden page19:43
replaceafillthat's a clerk's job19:43
replaceafillwhat's changed is that some tasks are only for the clerks now, when in the past the administration crowd contained the 319:44
th1aYes, but by default you're going to be both.19:44
replaceafillhe's not19:45
th1aI think I sent an email about that last week.19:45
th1aBut no, it hasn't happened yet.19:45
th1aYou should have a couple emails about that.19:45
replaceafillbut your mail was about evolution, right?19:45
th1aI think I also said that the manager should start in clerks and site managers.19:46
replaceafilldidn't get that part :)19:46
th1aBecause you're right, otherwise people would lose their minds as soon as they try to add a course.19:46
replaceafillah, found that email19:48
replaceafillth1a, i'm done with glenda's spreadsheet20:16
th1aDo you want to just throw it on Google?20:16
replaceafillah sure20:16
replaceafillcando 2013 groups... :S20:19
replaceafilli added in blue one permission they didn't consider, terms20:19
replaceafilland with yellow, the parts with navigational problems20:20
replaceafillth1a, bug filed:
* replaceafill goes to run some errands, bb in ~1h20:53
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