IRC log of #schooltool for Sunday, 2013-08-04

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jelknerGood afternoon replaceafill!20:29
jelknerAre you feeling better?20:29
replaceafillhello jelkner20:29
jelknerglad to hear that20:30
jelkneri haven't heard anything from pgulley, so i'm assuming he won't be with us today.20:30
jelknerhave you heard from him?20:31
replaceafilli just sent him an email with my comments20:31
jelkneri told him on friday that i didn't expect him to be here.20:31
jelkneri really wanted to check in with you20:31
jelknerso, should we start?20:32
replaceafilllet me get your email20:32
jelkneri'll post20:32
jelkner1. Exporting / Importing Quiz Data.20:32
jelkner2. Setting up Fall instances.20:32
jelkner3. Transitioning from Paul back to Douglas for here on...20:33
replaceafillabout 1. i noticed you decided to do wide-system export/import?20:33
jelkneri want to answer any questions you have about what we want for the Fall (and in general going forward).20:33
jelknerWhat does that mean?20:34
jelknerPaul decided that, but I didn't talk to him about it yet.20:34
replaceafillah ok20:34
replaceafillgood to know :)20:34
jelknerIn fact, i don't see how it makes any sense.20:34
jelknereach school has its own courses20:35
jelknerimporting and exporting needs to be by course20:35
jelknerthe big story this Fall will be math.20:35
jelknerIsaac has been promoting what we are doing county wide in the math department20:35
jelknerthere is definite interest20:36
jelknerand we have a great opportunity to begin in the alternative programs20:36
jelknerwe need to help students get ready for standardized tests20:36
jelknerand this system is an awesome tool for that imho20:37
jelknerthe problem is that the value of the system is in the work teachers put in together creating educational assessments.20:37
jelknerlinked to skills, of course.20:37
jelknerif we don't have a way to "package" all that work20:37
jelknerwe don't have a viable system.20:38
jelkneri'm talking about hundreds of hours of work.20:38
replaceafillbut the goal of he packaging part is... what? sharing?20:38
jelkner1. sharing20:39
jelkner2. reusing20:39
jelknerlet me explain.20:39
jelknerAs an "expert" teacher, i design lessons, create activities and develop assessments for my students.20:40
jelknerit takes a loooong time to do that.20:40
jelknerlet's say i spend 500 to 1000 hours during the year planning (could be more, but lets say)20:41
jelkneri've created an entire set of graduated assessment items linked to skills for the geometry course.20:41
jelknerwhat happens next year?20:41
jelkneri expect to be able to reuse what i've done20:42
jelknerto improve upon it to be sure, but not to start again from scratch20:42
jelkneri want to load the assessments i created for geometry last year and use them again20:42
jelkneri also want to share my geometry assessment items with my geometry colleagues20:43
jelknerand to get their assessment items too20:43
jelknerin fact, APS math can develop a set of VA Geometry SOL linked skills assessment items that could be shared with other counties around the state.20:44
replaceafillbut for the sharing to work, the other counties would need to replicate your same setup20:44
jelkneryou mean skills list, right?20:45
jelkneri don't know what you mean by "setup".20:45
replaceafilland courses too20:45
jelknerall courses?20:45
jelknerwhy not just geometry?20:46
replaceafillnot all, the ones you have skills/items data for20:46
jelknerall courses is a show stopper20:46
jelknerit won't work20:46
jelknerbut i would want a school that just wanted to use the geometry and algebra courses we develop to be able to load them.20:46
jelknerif they can't, our effort is not likely to bear much fruit.20:47
jelknerthat's the power of it.20:47
replaceafilli like this "by course" notion...20:47
replaceafillbut it assummes a teacher has full control over all the sections...20:48
jelknerhow do you mean?20:48
replaceafillsuppose you have two sections for the course20:48
replaceafillwith different teachers20:48
replaceafilland they create their own items20:48
jelknerwhich you will, so that's a good assumption!20:48
replaceafilldifferent items20:49
jelknerI do that now already20:49
jelknerWe will need to assume that the skills list is immutable for the course20:49
jelknerbut the assessments are not20:49
jelknerall geometry items are available to all geometry teachers20:50
jelknerthey pick and choose which to use for their particular section20:50
replaceafilli think we have all the necessary information for this20:51
replaceafillattaching the item skill directly to the course skill was a good call20:51
replaceafilli do think we need to improve the quiz UI to filter better20:52
replaceafillshow schoolyear tabs maybe20:52
replaceafilland put the teacher's sections in there20:52
replaceafillnot that huge mess with single tables20:53
jelknerso this is why i wanted to meet today20:53
jelknerwhat do you want pgulley to do with his last 2 weeks that will help you the most20:53
jelknercause after that, the ball is back in your court20:54
jelkneri also want us to consider the time line for deployment of the SY 2013-14 instance20:54
jelknerI will need it running by around Aug. 30th at the latest20:55
jelknerSo I can spend the holiday weekend setting up my school ;-)20:55
jelknerand be ready for show time on Sept. 3rd.20:55
* replaceafill writes down those dates20:56
jelknerKhady will want to setup the Adja Penda Ba instance at the same time20:56
jelknerSo I can help her.20:56
replaceafillthis is what i think20:56
* jelkner is all ears20:56
replaceafillyou'll start from a fresh database, right?20:57
replaceafilli mean, no existing data20:57
replaceafillyou still don't have users to share with20:57
replaceafilli mean20:57
replaceafillthere's interest20:57
jelknerthe interest is real20:57
jelknerArlington Mill High School wants this20:58
jelknerIsaac, Sean, and I are confirmed users20:58
replaceafillyes, but if you start fresh20:58
replaceafillyou're going to create new items for this year?20:58
jelknerIsaac and I will be part of a group of alternative program math teachers this year20:58
jelknermeeting at our school20:58
jelknerothers will definitely want to use what we are developing for math20:58
jelkneri can practically guarantee that20:59
replaceafillyou are developing or you *will be* developing?20:59
replaceafillthat's the part i'm not clear about20:59
jelknerthe skills list will be ready by August 3020:59
jelknerit is now, but I'd like us to go over this again before we finally commit21:00
jelknerthe items get developed throughout the year21:00
replaceafillah ok21:00
replaceafillso, september 3rd21:00
replaceafillsome skills, 0 items21:00
jelknerall skills, right?21:00
jelknersince you can't really add them21:00
replaceafillhere's the point i'm trying to make:21:01
jelknerwithout evolving the data21:01
replaceafillit'll be more valuable for *you* as the user to have the existing UI fixed21:01
replaceafillhaving students able to filter21:01
replaceafillthan to have import/export really ready on sept 3rd21:02
replaceafillget my point?21:02
jelkneri do, and i agree21:02
replaceafill*EVERYTHING* is important of course21:02
replaceafillbut if you prioritize (if that's the right word)21:02
replaceafilli'd have Paul working on fixing the UI21:02
replaceafillwhich btw21:03
jelknerprovided that we understand completely that come January if we can't export and import assessment items, "We're F**ked!!"21:03
jelkneri mean that in all seriousness21:03
jelkneryou are right in the way you are thinking to prioritize21:03
replaceafillwhat f*ck you more? not import/export or bad UI?21:03
jelknernot exporting / importing21:04
jelkneri need to make this as clear as i can, my friend21:04
jelknerif i put 1000 hours into creating curriculum21:04
replaceafillah good point21:04
replaceafillthat hours remark helps me focus :)21:04
jelknerunder the assumption that all that time is worth it because i'm creating something sharable and reusable21:05
jelknerand then i find out it isn't21:05
replaceafillbut, so far you have 0 hours21:05
replaceafillyou'll start having hours on sept 321:05
jelknersaying i'd be upset doesn't come close21:05
jelkneraug 3021:05
jelknerbut yes21:05
replaceafillwe've lost Paul by then21:05
replaceafilli'd say UI fix Mr Elkner21:05
jelkneryou're the boss21:06
replaceafillbut you're the user!21:06
replaceafilli'm just giving my 0.0221:06
jelknernot so21:06
replaceafilli'm sure Paul can pull export/import in 2 weeks21:06
jelkneri can't write this software, man, only you can21:06
replaceafillbut we'll get to aug 30 with ability to export/import items that don't exist yet21:07
jelknernot so21:07
replaceafilland you'll start having students that get lost in huge daily quiz tables21:07
replaceafilland not just students21:08
replaceafillteachers too21:08
jelkneri have a bunch of items developed for this summer21:08
jelknerthat i will want to reuse21:08
jelknerthe problem already exists21:08
jelknerso let's proceed the way you want to proceed21:08
jelkneryou know pgulley's skills21:08
jelknerand how to use him most effectively for the last 2 weeks21:09
jelknerand you know the big picture21:09
jelknerand you have a long term interest in this product21:09
replaceafilli do?21:09
replaceafilli mean21:09
replaceafilli do!21:09
jelknerreplaceafill likes to make jelkner nervous ;-)21:10
replaceafilltell you what21:10
jelknerdo tell21:10
replaceafilli'll write down what i think it needs to change21:10
replaceafillusing the google doc + my notes21:11
replaceafilland try to make them individual tasks21:11
replaceafillso pgulley can digest easily21:11
* jelkner likes that21:11
jelknerwe have only 2 weeks of pgulley time21:12
jelknerlet's get the most of them21:12
replaceafilljust for the record, there's no problem with 3. (on your agenda)21:12
jelknersweet ;-)21:13
replaceafilli had been close to what pgulley has been doing21:13
jelkneri figured as much21:13
replaceafillso, no surprises expected21:13
jelknerjust wanted to check21:13
jelknerok, mission accomplished21:13
jelknerpgulley will read this log and check in with you tomorrow21:13
jelknerthen get to work!21:13
jelknerthanks, replaceafill!21:14
replaceafillthank you jelkner21:14
jelknersay hi to the women folk for me (and roxana too)21:14
jelknerglad you're feeling better21:14
jelknerlater man21:14
replaceafillsee you my friend21:14
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