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| jelkner | Good afternoon replaceafill! | 20:29 |
|---|---|---|
| jelkner | Are you feeling better? | 20:29 |
| replaceafill | hello jelkner | 20:29 |
| replaceafill | yes | 20:30 |
| jelkner | glad to hear that | 20:30 |
| jelkner | i haven't heard anything from pgulley, so i'm assuming he won't be with us today. | 20:30 |
| replaceafill | oh | 20:31 |
| replaceafill | ok | 20:31 |
| jelkner | have you heard from him? | 20:31 |
| replaceafill | i just sent him an email with my comments | 20:31 |
| replaceafill | no | 20:31 |
| jelkner | i told him on friday that i didn't expect him to be here. | 20:31 |
| jelkner | i really wanted to check in with you | 20:31 |
| replaceafill | sure | 20:31 |
| jelkner | so, should we start? | 20:32 |
| replaceafill | let me get your email | 20:32 |
| jelkner | i'll post | 20:32 |
| jelkner | 1. Exporting / Importing Quiz Data. | 20:32 |
| jelkner | 2. Setting up Fall instances. | 20:32 |
| jelkner | 3. Transitioning from Paul back to Douglas for here on... | 20:33 |
| replaceafill | ok | 20:33 |
| replaceafill | about 1. i noticed you decided to do wide-system export/import? | 20:33 |
| jelkner | i want to answer any questions you have about what we want for the Fall (and in general going forward). | 20:33 |
| jelkner | What does that mean? | 20:34 |
| jelkner | Paul decided that, but I didn't talk to him about it yet. | 20:34 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 20:34 |
| replaceafill | good to know :) | 20:34 |
| jelkner | In fact, i don't see how it makes any sense. | 20:34 |
| jelkner | each school has its own courses | 20:35 |
| jelkner | importing and exporting needs to be by course | 20:35 |
| jelkner | the big story this Fall will be math. | 20:35 |
| jelkner | Isaac has been promoting what we are doing county wide in the math department | 20:35 |
| jelkner | there is definite interest | 20:36 |
| jelkner | and we have a great opportunity to begin in the alternative programs | 20:36 |
| jelkner | we need to help students get ready for standardized tests | 20:36 |
| jelkner | and this system is an awesome tool for that imho | 20:37 |
| jelkner | the problem is that the value of the system is in the work teachers put in together creating educational assessments. | 20:37 |
| jelkner | linked to skills, of course. | 20:37 |
| jelkner | if we don't have a way to "package" all that work | 20:37 |
| jelkner | we don't have a viable system. | 20:38 |
| jelkner | i'm talking about hundreds of hours of work. | 20:38 |
| replaceafill | but the goal of he packaging part is... what? sharing? | 20:38 |
| replaceafill | s/he/the | 20:38 |
| jelkner | 1. sharing | 20:39 |
| jelkner | 2. reusing | 20:39 |
| jelkner | let me explain. | 20:39 |
| jelkner | As an "expert" teacher, i design lessons, create activities and develop assessments for my students. | 20:40 |
| jelkner | it takes a loooong time to do that. | 20:40 |
| jelkner | let's say i spend 500 to 1000 hours during the year planning (could be more, but lets say) | 20:41 |
| jelkner | i've created an entire set of graduated assessment items linked to skills for the geometry course. | 20:41 |
| jelkner | what happens next year? | 20:41 |
| jelkner | i expect to be able to reuse what i've done | 20:42 |
| jelkner | to improve upon it to be sure, but not to start again from scratch | 20:42 |
| jelkner | i want to load the assessments i created for geometry last year and use them again | 20:42 |
| jelkner | i also want to share my geometry assessment items with my geometry colleagues | 20:43 |
| jelkner | and to get their assessment items too | 20:43 |
| jelkner | in fact, APS math can develop a set of VA Geometry SOL linked skills assessment items that could be shared with other counties around the state. | 20:44 |
| replaceafill | but for the sharing to work, the other counties would need to replicate your same setup | 20:44 |
| jelkner | you mean skills list, right? | 20:45 |
| jelkner | i don't know what you mean by "setup". | 20:45 |
| replaceafill | yes | 20:45 |
| replaceafill | and courses too | 20:45 |
| jelkner | all courses? | 20:45 |
| jelkner | why not just geometry? | 20:46 |
| replaceafill | not all, the ones you have skills/items data for | 20:46 |
| jelkner | all courses is a show stopper | 20:46 |
| jelkner | it won't work | 20:46 |
| jelkner | but i would want a school that just wanted to use the geometry and algebra courses we develop to be able to load them. | 20:46 |
| jelkner | if they can't, our effort is not likely to bear much fruit. | 20:47 |
| jelkner | that's the power of it. | 20:47 |
| replaceafill | i like this "by course" notion... | 20:47 |
| replaceafill | but it assummes a teacher has full control over all the sections... | 20:48 |
| jelkner | how do you mean? | 20:48 |
| replaceafill | suppose you have two sections for the course | 20:48 |
| replaceafill | with different teachers | 20:48 |
| replaceafill | and they create their own items | 20:48 |
| jelkner | which you will, so that's a good assumption! | 20:48 |
| replaceafill | different items | 20:49 |
| jelkner | I do that now already | 20:49 |
| jelkner | We will need to assume that the skills list is immutable for the course | 20:49 |
| jelkner | but the assessments are not | 20:49 |
| jelkner | all geometry items are available to all geometry teachers | 20:50 |
| jelkner | they pick and choose which to use for their particular section | 20:50 |
| replaceafill | thinking... | 20:51 |
| replaceafill | i think we have all the necessary information for this | 20:51 |
| replaceafill | attaching the item skill directly to the course skill was a good call | 20:51 |
| replaceafill | i do think we need to improve the quiz UI to filter better | 20:52 |
| jelkner | absolutely | 20:52 |
| replaceafill | show schoolyear tabs maybe | 20:52 |
| replaceafill | and put the teacher's sections in there | 20:52 |
| replaceafill | not that huge mess with single tables | 20:53 |
| jelkner | so this is why i wanted to meet today | 20:53 |
| jelkner | what do you want pgulley to do with his last 2 weeks that will help you the most | 20:53 |
| jelkner | cause after that, the ball is back in your court | 20:54 |
| replaceafill | right | 20:54 |
| jelkner | i also want us to consider the time line for deployment of the SY 2013-14 instance | 20:54 |
| replaceafill | thinking... | 20:54 |
| jelkner | I will need it running by around Aug. 30th at the latest | 20:55 |
| jelkner | So I can spend the holiday weekend setting up my school ;-) | 20:55 |
| jelkner | and be ready for show time on Sept. 3rd. | 20:55 |
| * replaceafill writes down those dates | 20:56 | |
| jelkner | Khady will want to setup the Adja Penda Ba instance at the same time | 20:56 |
| jelkner | So I can help her. | 20:56 |
| replaceafill | this is what i think | 20:56 |
| * jelkner is all ears | 20:56 | |
| replaceafill | you'll start from a fresh database, right? | 20:57 |
| jelkner | yes | 20:57 |
| replaceafill | i mean, no existing data | 20:57 |
| jelkner | right | 20:57 |
| replaceafill | you still don't have users to share with | 20:57 |
| replaceafill | i mean | 20:57 |
| replaceafill | there's interest | 20:57 |
| jelkner | the interest is real | 20:57 |
| jelkner | Arlington Mill High School wants this | 20:58 |
| jelkner | Isaac, Sean, and I are confirmed users | 20:58 |
| replaceafill | yes, but if you start fresh | 20:58 |
| replaceafill | you're going to create new items for this year? | 20:58 |
| jelkner | Isaac and I will be part of a group of alternative program math teachers this year | 20:58 |
| jelkner | meeting at our school | 20:58 |
| jelkner | others will definitely want to use what we are developing for math | 20:58 |
| jelkner | i can practically guarantee that | 20:59 |
| replaceafill | you are developing or you *will be* developing? | 20:59 |
| replaceafill | that's the part i'm not clear about | 20:59 |
| jelkner | the skills list will be ready by August 30 | 20:59 |
| jelkner | it is now, but I'd like us to go over this again before we finally commit | 21:00 |
| jelkner | the items get developed throughout the year | 21:00 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 21:00 |
| replaceafill | so, september 3rd | 21:00 |
| replaceafill | some skills, 0 items | 21:00 |
| jelkner | all skills, right? | 21:00 |
| replaceafill | yes | 21:00 |
| jelkner | since you can't really add them | 21:00 |
| replaceafill | here's the point i'm trying to make: | 21:01 |
| jelkner | without evolving the data | 21:01 |
| replaceafill | it'll be more valuable for *you* as the user to have the existing UI fixed | 21:01 |
| replaceafill | having students able to filter | 21:01 |
| replaceafill | etc | 21:01 |
| replaceafill | than to have import/export really ready on sept 3rd | 21:02 |
| replaceafill | get my point? | 21:02 |
| jelkner | i do, and i agree | 21:02 |
| replaceafill | *EVERYTHING* is important of course | 21:02 |
| replaceafill | but if you prioritize (if that's the right word) | 21:02 |
| replaceafill | i'd have Paul working on fixing the UI | 21:02 |
| replaceafill | which btw | 21:03 |
| jelkner | provided that we understand completely that come January if we can't export and import assessment items, "We're F**ked!!" | 21:03 |
| jelkner | i mean that in all seriousness | 21:03 |
| jelkner | you are right in the way you are thinking to prioritize | 21:03 |
| replaceafill | what f*ck you more? not import/export or bad UI? | 21:03 |
| replaceafill | :D | 21:04 |
| replaceafill | sure | 21:04 |
| jelkner | not exporting / importing | 21:04 |
| jelkner | i need to make this as clear as i can, my friend | 21:04 |
| jelkner | if i put 1000 hours into creating curriculum | 21:04 |
| replaceafill | ah good point | 21:04 |
| replaceafill | that hours remark helps me focus :) | 21:04 |
| jelkner | under the assumption that all that time is worth it because i'm creating something sharable and reusable | 21:05 |
| jelkner | and then i find out it isn't | 21:05 |
| replaceafill | but, so far you have 0 hours | 21:05 |
| replaceafill | you'll start having hours on sept 3 | 21:05 |
| jelkner | saying i'd be upset doesn't come close | 21:05 |
| jelkner | aug 30 | 21:05 |
| jelkner | but yes | 21:05 |
| replaceafill | we've lost Paul by then | 21:05 |
| jelkner | correct | 21:05 |
| replaceafill | i'd say UI fix Mr Elkner | 21:05 |
| jelkner | you're the boss | 21:06 |
| replaceafill | but you're the user! | 21:06 |
| replaceafill | i'm just giving my 0.02 | 21:06 |
| jelkner | not so | 21:06 |
| replaceafill | i'm sure Paul can pull export/import in 2 weeks | 21:06 |
| jelkner | i can't write this software, man, only you can | 21:06 |
| replaceafill | but we'll get to aug 30 with ability to export/import items that don't exist yet | 21:07 |
| jelkner | not so | 21:07 |
| replaceafill | and you'll start having students that get lost in huge daily quiz tables | 21:07 |
| replaceafill | and not just students | 21:08 |
| replaceafill | teachers too | 21:08 |
| jelkner | i have a bunch of items developed for this summer | 21:08 |
| jelkner | that i will want to reuse | 21:08 |
| jelkner | the problem already exists | 21:08 |
| jelkner | true | 21:08 |
| jelkner | so let's proceed the way you want to proceed | 21:08 |
| jelkner | you know pgulley's skills | 21:08 |
| jelkner | and how to use him most effectively for the last 2 weeks | 21:09 |
| jelkner | and you know the big picture | 21:09 |
| replaceafill | right | 21:09 |
| jelkner | and you have a long term interest in this product | 21:09 |
| replaceafill | i do? | 21:09 |
| replaceafill | i mean | 21:09 |
| replaceafill | i do! | 21:09 |
| replaceafill | :D | 21:09 |
| jelkner | lol | 21:09 |
| jelkner | replaceafill likes to make jelkner nervous ;-) | 21:10 |
| replaceafill | tell you what | 21:10 |
| jelkner | do tell | 21:10 |
| replaceafill | i'll write down what i think it needs to change | 21:10 |
| replaceafill | UI-wise | 21:10 |
| replaceafill | using the google doc + my notes | 21:11 |
| replaceafill | and try to make them individual tasks | 21:11 |
| replaceafill | so pgulley can digest easily | 21:11 |
| * jelkner likes that | 21:11 | |
| jelkner | we have only 2 weeks of pgulley time | 21:12 |
| jelkner | let's get the most of them | 21:12 |
| replaceafill | cool | 21:12 |
| replaceafill | just for the record, there's no problem with 3. (on your agenda) | 21:12 |
| jelkner | sweet ;-) | 21:13 |
| replaceafill | i had been close to what pgulley has been doing | 21:13 |
| jelkner | excellent | 21:13 |
| jelkner | i figured as much | 21:13 |
| replaceafill | so, no surprises expected | 21:13 |
| jelkner | just wanted to check | 21:13 |
| replaceafill | sure | 21:13 |
| jelkner | ok, mission accomplished | 21:13 |
| jelkner | pgulley will read this log and check in with you tomorrow | 21:13 |
| jelkner | then get to work! | 21:13 |
| jelkner | thanks, replaceafill! | 21:14 |
| replaceafill | sure | 21:14 |
| replaceafill | thank you jelkner | 21:14 |
| jelkner | say hi to the women folk for me (and roxana too) | 21:14 |
| replaceafill | thanks! | 21:14 |
| jelkner | glad you're feeling better | 21:14 |
| jelkner | later man | 21:14 |
| replaceafill | thanks | 21:14 |
| replaceafill | see you my friend | 21:14 |
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