IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2013-07-09

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axp2hi yvl, th1a11:48
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yvlaxp2, hi :)12:20
yvlsorry, no code for you yet12:21
axp2yvl: that's ok, i'm still getting my feet wet with zope3 and zodb. just saying hi for tonight12:22
axp2i'm really liking zodb actually. so difficult to get my head away from SQL but so much easier to store objects without having to read/write them back to the DB all the time12:23
yvlit has it's perks, definitely12:23
yvlthen again, querying becomes less optimized12:24
yvltradeoffs :)12:24
yvlbut the all-or-nothing transaction policy is really comfortable when writing code12:24
yvlif you get stuck at some point, don't hesitate to ask :)12:25
axp2will do, thanks12:26
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pgulleyreplaceafill, hello!16:28
replaceafillhey pgulley16:29
replaceafillgood morning :)16:29
pgulley:) likewise!16:29
pgulleylooks like jelkner isn't here yet, but do you mind if I have a few questions in the mean time?16:29
replaceafillgo ahead16:30
pgulleyokay, so I've started working on this 'saving quiz items' story. I've been storing the unsubmitted questions in IEvaluations as "UnansweredEvaluation" objects16:30
pgulleyThe problem is that the taken function still registers a saved-but-not-submitted quiz as taken16:31
pgulleyso I was thinking16:31
pgulleyIf I added a separate 'IAssigned' container, that would solve that problem16:31
pgulleyand also make development on the other stories for the summer much simpler.16:32
pgulleywhat do you think?16:32
replaceafillcan you explain what the IAssigned container is?16:32
replaceafillor would be :)16:32
pgulleyIt would be a container, essentially like IEvaluations, for quiz items which haven't been submitted for grading yet16:33
pgulleyso in this particular case, when a quiz is saved, but not submitted, the quiz items would be saved in IAssigned16:33
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replaceafilloh, hold on16:34
replaceafillyou're referring to the issue where students lost their work after their sessions times out?16:34
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replaceafillnot to the story about students taking their own quiz items16:35
jelknermy humble apologies for being late, gentleman16:35
replaceafilljelkner, np16:35
jelknerIsaac didn't show this morning, so I had to cover his class.16:35
jelknermy plan was to spend the morning working with paul getting our 1st quiz going.16:35
pgulleycorrect, replaceafill, but the IAssigned would also useful for that story, too.16:35
jelkneroh well, best laid plans, etc...16:35
jelkneranyway, can you help pgulley get the skills list for the web class setup correctly, replaceafill?16:36
pgulleyoh, yes.16:36
jelkneri want to make a quiz today16:36
replaceafillok, jelkner we were talking code16:37
replaceafillbut if that's priority #116:37
jelknerit may have to be given tomorrow16:37
replaceafilllet's do that first16:37
jelknerbut i need that asap16:37
jelknerthat's all i have.16:37
* replaceafill goes see the instance16:37
pgulleyis there any problem, replaceafill, with just changing the name of the skillset of the duplicates?16:37
jelknerwe can call the meeting if you all don't have any questions for me.16:37
pgulley(and then not associating that new skillset with a course)16:38
jelkneram i finished, folks?16:38
pgulleyjelkner, I have no pressing questions for you. I think so.16:38
jelkneri have students working on a project, but i should go help them.16:39
replaceafillok, so you'll create a new skillset with fewer skills?16:39
jelknerc u tomorrow morning then...16:39
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pgulleyright. The ten duplicate skills will be put in their own new skillset16:39
pgulleythat will just float off in neverland16:40
replaceafilltake into account that for associating the skillset with a course, you need at least a node16:40
replaceafilli'm not sure if that's explained in the book16:40
pgulleywell they're associated now, and as far as I know there is no node16:42
replaceafillah, you did it through the xls importer?16:43
replaceafillusing the coursenodes sheet, right?16:43
replaceafillsorry, that's courseskills :)16:43
pgulleythen yep!16:45
replaceafillso, yes, you need a new skillset, with new ID, etc16:46
replaceafillremove the current skills association from the course16:46
replaceafilland reimport an updated courseskills sheet16:46
replaceafillyou can import just that single sheet in the xls16:47
pgulleyOkay, so I've done something different, and I'm curious as to whether it will work or not16:47
pgulleyI've created a new skillset, with a new ID, called Duplicates16:47
pgulleyand I've unassociated all of the duplicate skills from their original skillset, and now associated them with this new one16:48
pgulleyDuplicates is not associated with any course.16:48
pgulleyThat way, I can leave the web design skillset untouched.16:48
pgulleywill that work?16:48
replaceafillhow have you "unassociated" the duplicated skills from the original skillset?16:50
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replaceafilland associated them with the new one?16:50
pgulleyI've just changed the 'skillset_id' field in the spreadsheet.16:50
pgulleyah. but that won't work, will it?16:51
pgulleybecause they're stored in nodes. That would just create more duplicates.16:51
replaceafilli think you'll create new ones16:51
replaceafillskills are not actually "stored" in nodes16:52
replaceafillnodes are just a link16:52
replaceafillto multiple skillsets at once16:52
replaceafillso when you are assigning skills to a course through the web16:52
replaceafillyou look for the node and you get all the skillsets16:52
replaceafillbut at the end the link is created between the course and each individual skillset16:53
replaceafillnot course <-> node16:53
pgulleyoh, alright.16:53
replaceafillthe "problem" we have right now is that we cannot delete stuff16:54
replaceafillskillsets or skills16:54
replaceafillhence the duplicates16:54
pgulleybut can a skill be moved to a different skillset?16:54
replaceafillskills are STORED inside skillsets16:54
pgulleyand that is what can't be changed.16:54
pgulleyalright. So I can sort this out.16:54
replaceafillalso, take into account16:55
replaceafillthat the title of the skillset is what the user sees in the cando gradebook16:55
replaceafillas the tab of the sheet16:55
replaceafillso, avoid "Duplicates" or such :)16:55
replaceafillyou can have several skillsets with the same title anyway16:55
replaceafillidentifying them in the /skills view gets complicated16:56
replaceafillbut users usually don't interact with that part much anyway16:56
replaceafilli recommend you to always test what you'll do locally (in your laptop) first16:57
replaceafilland check the results are what you expect16:57
replaceafillbut i guess you're already doing that :)16:57
pgulleyyep! don't worry.16:57
replaceafilli guess you should work on uploading the new list16:58
pgulleyI'm working on that now, but it shouldn't take too long16:59
pgulleyin the mean time, what are your thoughts on the IAssigned business?16:59
replaceafilldid jelkner ask for some kind of "resume" option for this17:01
replaceafilli mean17:01
replaceafillwould it be possible for the student to start taking the quiz today17:01
replaceafilland finish it tomorrow?17:01
replaceafillbecause i remember the initial use case was, students taking very long to actually finish the quiz17:02
replaceafilli wasn't even considering making the unanswered items persistent17:03
replaceafilli was more thinking of using sessions to solve it17:03
pgulleyOkay, so jelkner hasn't given me more information than is on the google doc.17:06
pgulleyI feel like that was the original problem17:06
pgulleyI don't really know that much about sessions.17:06
pgulleyIt may be useful to learn17:06
replaceafillat some point i even thought of trying local storage17:07
pgulleyhowever I'm going to need something like IAssigned when I start working on the next story, anywa.17:07
pgulleylike in cookies?17:07
replaceafillthe typical example on using local storage is: you start writing this long email, you submit, for some reason gets lost, you go back, everything is gone17:07
replaceafillwhy would you need "unanswered" quiz items for the next story?17:08
replaceafillassuming next story = students taking their own quizzes17:08
pgulleyI would need 'assigned quiz items' which are stored separately from evaluations17:08
pgulleythe way I have this saving thing set up now, the entire quiz is stored as 'assigned quiz items'17:09
pgulleywhich can be picked back up and submitted later.17:09
replaceafillok, let's assume jelkner wants save now, submit tomorrow kind of functionality17:10
replaceafill(you should ask that explicitly i think)17:10
replaceafillyou say the quiz items are "assigned" when the quiz is created?17:12
replaceafillso, if i have paul, jeff and matt as students17:13
replaceafilli create the quiz, and the three get the items created automatically?17:13
pgulleyThat's not how it works at the moment, but ideally, yes.17:13
pgulleyat the moment it just happens the first time the 'save' function is called17:14
pgulleywhich happens from the browser.17:14
replaceafillif we keep this approach i'd create it the first time the student "visits" the view to take the quiz17:14
pgulleyalright. That makes sense.17:14
replaceafilland you're storing quiz_item_id + answer?17:15
pgulleyit's structured exactly like an evaluation (the answer can be None, though)17:16
pgulleyand it's in a place where nothing will try to grade it17:17
replaceafillimho it doesn't need all the info an evaluation has17:17
pgulleyprobably not, your right.17:18
pgulleyit just has it now because I was copy-pasting ;)17:18
pgulleyI can slice things off.17:18
replaceafilli understand17:18
replaceafillok, i feel like it needs to store "where is this answer coming from"17:19
replaceafillfor example, in theory, quiz items can be associated with any quiz, right?17:19
pgulleyahh, yes.17:20
replaceafillsuppose i start on a quiz item, i mean, answering it17:20
replaceafilltake another quiz, or create my own17:20
replaceafillthe system looks for "unanswered" items for this student17:20
replaceafilland finds the first one17:20
replaceafillshould it present it in the subsequent quizzes17:21
replaceafillget my point?17:21
pgulleyright, yeah.17:21
replaceafillbut we can call yagni :)17:21
pgulleyhaha, for now.17:21
replaceafillsince quoting jelkner we want to move "fast"17:21
pgulleyokay, so I can start developing it this way. I'll grab jelkner during lunch and make totally sure it's what he wants17:22
replaceafilli'm ok with the approach17:22
pgulleyin that case, I'll dive right in17:23
replaceafillgood luck!17:23
pgulleythanks a bunch. took a bit more than ten minutes, hah.17:23
replaceafillah btw17:24
replaceafilljust for the record:17:24
replaceafilli'm away from 11:00 - 2:00 now17:24
replaceafillfrom monday - thursday17:24
replaceafillbut i'm usually here in the afternoon (my afternoon anyway) :)17:25
replaceafillso don't hesitate to email17:25
replaceafilli'll answer asap17:25
pgulleyalright, perfect. I don't forsee any issues, but it's good to know you're around.17:26
replaceafillsee you later pgulley17:26
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