IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2013-07-08

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axp2yvl: hi08:58
yvlhi axp208:58
axp2not sure if th1a has spoken to you but I'ev been emailling him about helping out with schooltool and he thought i might be able to assist with a RESTful API08:59
yvlah, hi Aaron09:00
yvlyes, th1a mentioned your conversation09:01
yvlis there anything I can help you with?09:01
axp2yvl: excellent. I've been just taking a look around the code at the moment, trying to get my head around Zope3.09:01
axp2yvl: he mentioned there was an existing REST API that might be a starting point for me to have a look at. wondering if you could point me in the right direction09:02
yvlwe wiped out REST API a while ago09:03
axp2i'm happy to start from scratch if there's nothing useful in the old one. i was wondering whether lazr.restful would be a good option?09:03
yvlI could search for an old revision that still has traces of it, not sure if that would help09:03
axp2(i'm coming from django so just struggling to figure out Zope3 at the moment!)09:04
yvla friendly warning - this will be tough at first09:05
yvlzope 3 is unusal09:05
yvlZODB is also unusual09:05
yvlby chance, do you know anything about ZODB?09:06
axp2yeah i'm already finding it difficult - but that's never stopped me before! :-)09:06
yvlgood :)09:06
axp2zodb - only what i've read in the past few days :-)09:06
axp2my main concern would be if i spend so much time trying to learn the basics that i end up taking up time of you guys with all my questions - that you might as well write it yourself!09:08
axp2but i think th1a may have suggested the API because it may not require me to get down into the complex stuff too much09:08
yvlThese few paragraphs cover the rough basics of ZODB:
yvl(I guess you might have read them already :) )09:09
yvlit's also a good place to start09:09
yvljust make your own database, store an object or two09:10
yvljust to feel the difference between object DB and SQL09:10
yvlif you inherit objects from perisstent.Persistent09:10
yvlthey will update automagically09:11
yvlas for lazr...09:11
yvlI haven't checked it out yet09:12
yvlgimme 10-15 minutes :)09:12
axp2no worries, thanks alot. it seems to be a fairly simple way to expose zodb objects as an API without alot of wheel reinvention. but i'm not sure if it fits the requirement or not09:13
yvlso yes :)09:19
yvllazr.restfull looks very useful09:20
yvldo you have some of your code online somewhere?09:22
yvljust to get the rough feel09:23
axp2yeah sure. most of my contributions have been to software center and it's review server (written in django)09:23
yvloh, cool!09:24
axp2so all my code is in launchpad
yvlah, thanks09:27
yvllooked some of your commits09:31
yvlI think you're skilled enough09:32
yvlapoplogies if I sound somewhat arogant09:32
yvlbut Zope is... well... interestingly different from others09:33
axp2lol no that's ok09:33
yvlso for beginners it would be plain hell09:33
axp2yes I went into it thinking that it was going to be like django in a different flavour09:33
axp2but can tell there are a few more things to figure out!09:33
yvltrue :D09:34
yvlyou're in Australia, right?09:34
yvl(as in - it's 4:30 PM)09:34
axp2yep that's right09:34
yvlit's not very late then09:35
yvllet me make a cup of coffee :)09:35
yvlneed to wake up ;)09:35
axp2no problems09:35
yvlah, much better now09:51
yvlok, some questions :)09:51
yvlhave you checked out schooltool yet?09:51
yvldid you take a look at how the data are stored?09:52
yvlfor example by connecting to db and inspecting it in interactive python shell?09:53
yvlalso, are you familiar with paste?09:55
axp2yep, i've built it and run it and had a play on the web front end09:59
axp2i haven't looked at the data yet, but i'll give that a go09:59
yvlI guess it would be better to make REST API run separately from ST10:01
yvlat least at first10:01
yvlwe now have (via paste):10:01
yvlschooltool (Zope)10:01
axp2and re: paste i've just used it in running through some zope3 tutorials so far10:01
yvltask results (bottle / json)10:02
yvland celery (remote / delayed tasks)10:02
yvlI think we can squeeze one more in10:02
yvland maybe splice it into ST itself later on10:03
yvlit's easier to develop a separate egg10:03
yvlthen again, separate ZEO connection eats RAM for caching10:03
yvlalso, loading up all of ZCML (for security and such) would eat a lot more of RAM10:04
yvlbut anyway, the first impl doesn't have to be optimized10:04
yvlso how about this10:04
yvlI could whip up an egg for you10:04
yvlwith some basic setup10:04
yvlalso maybe a few useful scripts10:04
yvlmaybe zodbbrowser10:05
axp2yeah that would be great, if you have the time10:05
yvland some simple lazr.restful query10:05
yvlallright then10:06
yvland you can take it from there :)10:06
axp2excellent, thank you10:07
yvlI'll do that at some point today10:07
yvland subscribe you to a branch in LP10:08
yvlalso, you can look at src/schooltool/securitypolicy/README.txt10:08
yvlit's not very verbose10:08
yvlbut we do have a custom security mechanism10:08
yvlso that might be useful to know :)10:08
axp2ok thanks i'll take a look10:09
axp2i appreciate your help10:09
yvlmy pleasure10:09
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axp2yvl: hi14:56
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th1ahi replaceafill, menesis, yvl.16:31
yvlgood morning16:32
replaceafillgood morning16:34
th1aHas freenode been a bit wonky this weekend?16:35
th1aMan has it been hot here.16:36
th1aThat's pretty much dominated my (lack of) brain activity over the weekend.16:36
th1aOK... I do have to remember to discuss one thing.16:36
th1aThis guy has a bunch of old data that would logically go into report sheets.16:37
th1aIs there any particular reason writing a script that would create the report sheets and populate them from a spreadsheet would be more difficult than I'd think?16:38
th1aI guess we'd have to create the sections and then remember their ID's.16:39
th1aThis would not be the universal fix.16:39
th1aThis would be the first pass on an individual case.16:39
yvlwe can leave proper section and student creation to the user16:41
yvlwe do have spreadsheets for such import16:41
th1aWell, yes, he has been working on the spreadsheets.16:42
th1aSo we can give him the heads up on that.16:42
yvlother than that... I can't see any immediate rakes we could step on16:42
th1areplaceafill:  If we get him to clean up the data do you think this would be about a 1 day project, assuming he also gives us access to the data so we can test it ourselves?16:42
replaceafillth1a, i think so16:43
th1aOK... so since he seems at least half clueful, I should ask him to incorporate the section ID's in his import sheet if possible.16:44
replaceafillthis kind of confuses me though:16:44
replaceafill"Another relevant complication is that the marking scheme has also changed16:44
replaceafillduring the time period covered by the data"16:44
th1aProbably a different score system.16:44
th1aWe support that!16:44
replaceafilloh, i understood an activity would have a score system in one point, and a different one in another point in time16:45
th1aThere will just be different report sheets for different years to reflect that.16:46
replaceafillgot it16:47
th1aOK, I'll get back to him on that.16:47
th1ayvl, go ahead.16:47
yvlI pushed out updates to attendance16:47
yvlscore system changed from ranged to the discrete16:48
yvlso dev sandboxes will be somewhat broken again16:48
yvlattendance has split cells with homeroom info, where such info exists16:48
yvlbackground color is to be changed16:49
yvlnow some aquaish tealish thing16:49
yvland some other fixes and changes we discussed16:50
yvllike move a link to help->scoresystems16:50
yvlalso made Journal tab function properly for techer-clerk16:50
th1aAh, right.16:51
yvland I think some more minor changes16:51
yvlbasically pushed out everything I had ;)16:51
yvlI spoke to axp2 (Aaron) today16:52
yvlon ST REST API16:52
th1aAh, good.16:52
yvland I'm now hacking up a schooltool egg with lazr.restful16:52
yvlwant to make a somewhat simple starting point16:53
th1aIs the old code useful or revivable at all at this point?16:53
yvlI don't think so16:53
yvlwell, we could if we wanted to16:53
yvlI just have serious doubts if it's worth it at all16:54
yvloh, and I'm also thinking on hooking up some tools - at least zodb browser16:55
th1aI'm assuming lazr.restful is the more modern approach.16:55
yvlit should help with exploring DB16:55
* yvl done16:56
th1aOK.  So is there anything pending with attendance at this point or should I be looking at it as if your part is "done."16:57
yvllet's consider it done16:57
yvlplease report bugs16:57
yvlI may have forgotten something16:58
th1aI will.  ;-)16:58
yvlso next...16:58
yvlmake the REST branch16:58
yvland move on to statuses16:58
th1amenesis:  axp2 also has some experience with the Software Center, so hopefully he can help us get more info (logo, screenshot) in there.17:00
replaceafilltranslations! :)17:01
th1aOh!  For the software center?17:01
th1aI hadn't thought of that.  Good point.17:01
replaceafilli think we still don't have that, right?17:01
menesiswho is axp2?17:01
th1aI guess not?17:01
th1aHe's a developer who worked on the software center and some other things who was looking for a new project.17:02
th1aI suggested he work on implementing a new REST API, since there is actually some more or less standard API's coming out now in the US.17:02
th1aThat map very closely to what we had before.17:02
th1aAnd I periodically have these email exchanges with people asking for an API, and basically say "Tell us exactly what you want and how you want and we'll give it to you," and they NEVER get back to me.17:03
th1aI guess we should just pick one.17:03
th1aBut it isn't high enough priority to put you guys on it.17:03
th1aAnd it is relatively easy to do without grokking the whole system.17:04
th1aOK, replaceafill?17:05
replaceafilllast week th1a and i worked on styling the report card17:06
replaceafillth1a, i have a question here17:06
replaceafilli noticed the request dialog for the report card17:06
replaceafillhas options for the "whole" school year and each term17:06
replaceafillasking you what you want, right?17:06
replaceafillbut, if you select the "whole" school year17:07
replaceafilli was expecting the report card to show me "all the terms" in that year17:07
replaceafillbut it always shows only one17:07
th1aThat sounds like a bug.17:08
replaceafillah ok17:08
replaceafilli thought so17:08
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replaceafillhow should we display that?17:08
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th1aWait, what are we talking about exactly?17:08
th1aI don't even know if that makes any sense.17:09
replaceafillmulti term report card17:09
replaceafillwhen you select the school year as the option17:09
th1aShouldn't that be determined by the layout?17:09
replaceafillth1a, it kind of doesn't make sense to me either, because of the layout view17:09
th1aSo, I think really the pretense that there is a single term report card is wrong.17:10
replaceafillbut then, giving the user opportunity to select the terms doesn't make much sens17:10
th1aThat's the bug, really.17:10
th1aYou should just be able to remove that.17:10
replaceafillthat's way easier :)17:10
th1aAlan doesn't have that filter where he won't code something that doesn't make sense.17:11
replaceafillok, i'll do that17:11
th1aHe just plows ahead.17:12
replaceafilland i have the insecurity of not knowing if this is on purpose or not :D17:12
replaceafillso, the flourish view works and i left last week in the middle of using the journal trunk branch17:12
replaceafilli used selenium IDE again, in case of breakages like the one yvl just mentioned :P17:13
replaceafillth1a, i'll be paying attention to the report sheet question now17:13
replaceafillalso, i'm kind of helping jelkner and pgulley17:14
replaceafillmore of a "on the side" support :)17:14
th1aYes, I saw.  That's ok.17:14
replaceafillok, i think i'm done17:14
replaceafillcouple of "shaky" days around here:
th1aIt's hotter here!17:15
replaceafillit's windy here :P17:16
th1aOK.  Hold on tight replaceafill.17:16
menesisI have been working on zope packages in both Debian and Ubuntu17:18
menesissynced what I have in Ubuntu to Debian17:18
menesisneed to ask someone to upload that17:19
menesisthere are now automated tests for installed packages17:19
menesissome of them were failing17:19
menesisfixed some, new errors appeared17:20
menesisI upgraded zope.testrunner to the latest version (in trunk)17:20
menesisthere are now more features, e.g. ability to skip tests17:20
menesisthere are some schooltool tests failing17:21
menesisnot because of the upgrade, they failed before17:21
menesiswill try to fix the easy ones – Decimal("5") vs ('5') and ScoreSystemError that I introduced17:22
menesisbut there are more failures, see
menesismany ftests fail because of permissions remap17:24
menesisbut ftests still tests the old skin... so I ignore them.17:24
menesisbut the number of failures is growing17:25
th1aAh... well, is pruning them out worth the bother?17:25
menesisit was in my plan to nuke the old skin17:26
menesisand make the ftests use the flourish one, if feasible17:26
th1aOK, use your judgement.17:27
menesisbut I haven't done much about it17:27
menesisremoved IBasicPersonLayer and old schooltool.person views, but even that is not merged17:28
th1aDon't be afraid to just rip stuff out if it is getting to the point where obsolete test failures are making us ignore our tests.17:29
menesisI will17:30
menesisbut last week I only cared about packages in Ubuntu to have them in good shape17:31
menesisone potential blocker to land the celery work is a very old supervisor17:32
menesisI have an updated package in the ppa, but still have to submit it for sponsors17:32
th1aOK.  Do that.  Does the old one not have essential features for us?17:33
menesisand of course I'll get asked why not do that for Debian? so I'll try there first17:33
menesisit has one bug where a line in config file "environment=CELERY_CONFIG=blah REDIS_PORT=7079" is not parsed correctly17:34
menesisso supervisord fails to start17:35
menesismaybe adding some quotes can help workaround that17:35
th1aSo it is just a bug?17:35
menesisbut the first try was unsuccessful17:35
th1aWell, trying workarounds is probably quicker than pushing packages through, so give it a shot.17:36
menesisit is one bug that was fixed in later versions. not sure what else, because it fails to start ;)17:36
* menesis done17:37
th1aYou know the situation better than I do.17:37
th1aJust don't wait around on the political parts of the process.17:37
th1aThanks guys.17:37
th1aI have to go get fingerprinted and photoed today for my visa application.17:37
th1aSee you Wednesday.17:38
th1aI'll be turning 44...17:38
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:38
replaceafillthanks everybody, see you wed17:38
yvlhappy birthday then :)17:39
yvlall right17:39
yvlthanks guys17:39
yvlsee you soon17:39
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pgulleyreplaceafill, could I get your thoughts on my approach on this story?17:48
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