IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2012-06-27

replaceafilland then the usual, lp:schooltool, etc00:00
* replaceafill thinks mattva01 remembers the last time he set this up :)00:00
replaceafillok, can we talk 3. now?00:01
mattva01I think i'll be ok >.<00:01
mattva01good with me00:01
* replaceafill sees mattva01 starting to bleed :D00:01
replaceafillok pgulley dreich a few comments on my part00:01
replaceafilljelkner, asked me to review your work periodically00:02
replaceafilland it's way easier if you do 1 commit per feature00:02
replaceafillor per feature change00:02
replaceafillfor example:00:02
replaceafill"fixed datetimeish, more random prettying"00:02
replaceafillmakes me nervous because makes me think you found an issue with your changes00:03
replaceafillwhich makes me think the feature has no tests yet00:03
replaceafilland that's fine00:03
replaceafillthere are also some debugging stuff you don't need to push to trunk00:04
dreichyeah, we've been doing it a bit piece-by-piece00:04
replaceafillthat's ok, it's not a big deal00:04
replaceafilljust take it into account00:04
replaceafillabout randomness00:05
replaceafillthat's maybe a jelkner question00:05
replaceafillbut imho i think randomness should live in the deployment00:05
replaceafillinstead of the quiz00:05
replaceafillbut jelkner may have a different POV00:05
replaceafillthe "Answers to Grade" table in the deployment view should be conditional00:05
replaceafilllike, don't show it if no student has taken the quiz yet00:06
jelknerMy answer will depend on cost for the moment00:06
jelknerif its cheap00:06
jelknerthe deployment is better00:06
jelknerif it is expensive00:06
jelknerit's not that important00:06
pgulleyit would be a cheap change.00:06
jelknercool, let's do it00:06
replaceafilli'd change the viewfunctions code to the utils module00:07
replaceafilland please, try to avoid "import *"00:07
replaceafillit makes debugging difficult00:07
replaceafillfrom my POV as a potential future maintainer of your work, the most valuable part will be tests00:08
replaceafillas long as you work with jelkner it's fine not having them, because he can reach you easily00:08
mattva01i'll crack the whip at them over the summer :p00:09
replaceafillthe last part i don't understand00:09
replaceafillwhy do you need: Person(name='Bob')?00:10
dreichwait, I fixed that!00:10
dreichthat was a debug thing00:10
replaceafilli mean, why do you need to pass the person's name?00:10
dreichbecause I was figuring out where to get people names from00:10
dreichoh, because I'm storing their real name as part of their user object00:10
replaceafillhere's my view of the issue:00:11
replaceafilljelkner register dreich in ST00:11
replaceafillas Davi Reich00:11
replaceafillhe notices the typo in pyquiz00:11
replaceafilland says "oops"00:11
replaceafillgoes back to ST and fixes it00:11
replaceafillgets back to pyquiz, still sees the typo00:11
replaceafillget my point?00:12
dreichhow about it updates every time they log in?00:12
dreichwhich is easier than going over to schooltool each time we need it00:12
replaceafilldreich, under that logic we should store "everything" in pyquiz?00:13
dreichbut we need the name unusually often00:13
replaceafilli know what you mean00:13
dreichwhatever you think's the best design, though00:13
replaceafillbut i've try to keep pyquiz as much unaware of data00:13
replaceafillthat is not quiz related00:13
replaceafilldreich, if you really need it, you have sessions00:14
dreichok, I get why then00:14
replaceafilljust my 2 cents00:14
replaceafilland teachers have access to server.get_user_info(username)00:15
replaceafillfollowing ST security model00:15
replaceafillbut for the summer that may not be an issue00:15
* replaceafill checks his notes00:15
dreichok, it still seems worth fixing00:16
* replaceafill is done :)00:16
replaceafillok, now onto schooltool.pyquiz00:16
replaceafilldreich, pgulley do you have more pyquiz-only work to do?00:16
replaceafilli mean, did you run out of bugs yet?00:17
dreichyeah, there are a few more00:17
dreichimages, writing tests, maybe something else00:17
dreichand sub-quizes00:17
* mattva01 is gonna start checking out schooltool.....00:17
dreichthat was kinda wishlist though00:17
pgulleywe still don't have proper gradebook integration, either.00:17
pgulleyoh, not pyquiz only00:18
replaceafillpgulley, that's why i asked about pyquiz-only wokr00:18
replaceafilldo me a favor00:19
replaceafilllook in pyquiz bzr history00:19
replaceafilland enable the categories back00:19
replaceafillwhen you deploy a quiz00:19
replaceafillcurrently, it asks you "section", attempt and date"00:19
replaceafillit used to ask you section, category, attempts and date00:20
replaceafillcategory was what made the link to the gradebook00:20
replaceafillenabled them back00:20
replaceafillenable them back :)00:20
replaceafilli think you should be able to do it looking at the code changes in bzr00:21
replaceafillor launchpad00:21
dreichyeah, ok00:21
replaceafillthen you'll have that back00:21
replaceafilland we can start tweaking the gradebook00:21
replaceafillto have links and all the things jelkner wants00:21
replaceafilldoes that make sense?00:22
replaceafilljelkner, i'm done00:22
mattva01hmm, I haven't logged in to except for automated stuff in ages00:23
mattva01now to remember my username.....00:23
mattva01it's just schooltool and that  pyquiz branch right?00:32
mattva01unless you changed the structure to not include that massive blob of zope dependencies?00:32
replaceafilllet me see00:33
mattva01oh right, cando gradebook and journal00:33
mattva01can't remember the branches you want to for that....00:34
replaceafillmattva01, you mean for the backup?00:34
replaceafillfor setting up the new instance00:34
mattva01ok cool00:35
replaceafillthat last one:00:35
mattva01ok so trunk for everything but cando00:35
dreichalso schooltool.pyquiz, right?00:35
replaceafillmattva01, you create the branch from schooltool.pyquiz00:36
replaceafilland modify its buildout to include the others00:36
replaceafill(except pyquiz ofc)00:36
mattva01yep, I remember that bit00:36
mattva01just gonna tar up the whole directory, back it up, then rm -rf .00:38
replaceafillhhmm do we need the rm -rf part?00:39
mattva01nah, but I don't want -old-old and -old ....00:39
mattva01i'm fine with that though00:39
replaceafilli'd say new directory for new stuff00:40
replaceafilljust in case jelkner loses the backup :P00:40
mattva01good point00:40
dreichreplaceafill, are we good on code discussion?00:45
dreichmattva01 can contact pgulley and I if there are problems with deployment00:45
replaceafilldreich, sure00:46
dreichalright, I think we're gonna head out then, we got some good work done here!00:46
mattva01wait, last thing for replacefill: I checkout schooltool and checkout schooltool.pyquiz within it like last time? or checkout schooltool.pyquiz and put everything but pyquiz in the buildout.cfg?00:46
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replaceafillmattva01, a sec00:47
replaceafillsorry, phone call00:53
replaceafillmattva01, this time schooltool.pyquiz is the main branch00:53
replaceafillit has a custom skin (that's why)00:53
mattva01how do you set non-trunk branches in buildout.cfg?00:58
jelknerok, replaceafill, mattva01, i need to run... thanks a 10**6!00:59
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replaceafilldevelop = . /path/to/schooltool/trunk /path/to/schooltool.gradebook/trunk00:59
replaceafilland under [versions] put the packages:01:00
replaceafillschooltool =01:00
replaceafillschooltool.gradebook =01:00
replaceafillthat means, use the development checkouts01:00
mattva01ah ok01:00
mattva01so don't put anything in [package] ?01:01
replaceafillnot necessary01:02
replaceafill/opt/summer2012, right?01:02
mattva01i'm gonna head home and finish this there, thanks for the help01:07
replaceafilllet me know if you need more help01:07
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th1ahi replaceafill, aelkner, menesis.16:30
th1aI guess yvl can't make it today.16:30
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
replaceafilloh no :(16:31
replaceafilli had lots of questions for him16:31
replaceafillwell, i'll write an email to the dev-list16:31
aelknerguys, we have issues with sections16:32
aelkneri believe the issues impact my imports/exports in a similar fashion as the sections view changes we discussed with welsh16:33
th1aData model issues?!?16:33
aelknerindeed :)16:33
aelknerreplaceafill, we should probably start by mentioning we met with welsh mon afternoon16:34
aelknerhe gave us some feedback on the state of things, including changes he wanted in the sections view16:34
replaceafilli believe dwelsh and th1a have different opinions on that one16:35
aelkneri'm guessing you figured out that we have an issue when you went to make the changes, no?16:35
replaceafillaelkner, not really16:35
replaceafillwhat issue are you referring to?16:35
aelkneri just pulled trunk, and i see you haven't made the changes he wanted yet16:36
aelknerthe fact that the same section appears twice16:36
th1aThe thing about talking to Welsh is that he is usually right about the presence of problems but not the best solution.16:36
aelknerreplaceafill, why haven't you put the changes in trunk?16:36
replaceafillaelkner, i talked to th1a about the "multiple sections" part16:36
replaceafillaelkner, because it's not definite yet16:36
replaceafilltake a look16:37
replaceafillthat's the way th1a suggested to do it16:37
replaceafilli was thinking i should add logic to make the checkboxes appear only if you have multiple terms in the year?16:38
aelknerso we are going to tell him that we can't avoid having the same section appear as many as four times?16:38
th1aIf you filter you can.16:38
th1aDo you know what the overall use case is here?16:39
replaceafillth1a, is that the way you wanted it to work?16:39
replaceafilli mean, the checkboxes filtering16:39
th1aYes, it looks good.  Fancy update.16:39
th1aNewfangled javascript.16:39
replaceafillthanks yvl :)16:40
aelknerth1a, the use case is that the administrator, welsh, for instance, gets  done with the imports and wants to check the sections16:40
aelknerhe sees the same section four times and freaks out16:40
th1aOK, this should be fine then.16:40
aelknerfor instance, he has ten sections for MP1-MP216:40
aelknertwenty for MP3-MP416:41
aelknerhe wants to see thirty sections, not sixty16:41
aelknerfiltering by term does not help with this use case16:41
th1aDoes the table do batching if necessary?16:41
replaceafillstardard ajax table16:41
th1aaelkner:  If you're talking about an administrator wanting to check the overall setup, you NEED filtering, so you can look at the terms separately.16:42
th1aIf you hide any of them, you're defeating the purpose.16:42
replaceafillth1a, the part i couldnt think of a way to fix was the Sections accordion in the person index view16:42
replaceafilldwelsh complained of the same "issue" there16:43
th1aYes.  Can't we just check which ones are linked?16:43
replaceafilllet's take
aelknerif we can check which ones are linked in the accordion view, why not the sections view16:44
aelknerit's the same issue16:44
th1aIt isn't the same issue insofar as a user and and administrator have different priorities.16:45
th1aWe could just sort them by term here.16:45
th1aPut in a sub-accordion...16:45
aelknerif by administrator, you mean welsh, he sees his priority to be the same as his teachers16:46
aelknernamely, he doesn't need to see the same section more than once16:46
th1aaelkner:  welsh does not necessarily see the big picture.16:46
aelknerwell, if he fails to see it, and that continues to be the case, then you just have a pissed of user for no reason16:47
th1aa) so what;16:48
th1ab) there is a reason.16:48
th1aWe don't have a flourished tree widget, do we?16:48
replaceafillno, we dont16:49
replaceafillth1a, the jstree library is still in our resources though16:50
replaceafillremember? the one we used for this in the old skin :)16:50
th1aI guess we can just use it for prototyping.16:51
th1ayear > term > section16:51
th1a(prototyping and probably production)16:52
th1aAny objections to that?16:52
replaceafillso instead of the table in the Sections accordion, we would use a jstree widget16:52
replaceafillmaybe displaying the active term by default?16:53
th1aA tree in the accordion.16:53
th1aSo a tree instead of a table.16:53
th1aSure, show active term.16:53
th1aDo we have a method for determining that at this point?16:53
replaceafillyes, current term16:53
aelknerprior to a school year, there is no active term16:54
replaceafillaelkner, you mean like if you have persons and not sections?16:54
aelkneri mean, when you set up the data in august for a school year that starts in september16:55
th1aIf there is no active term it is no big deal to show the tree collapsed.16:55
aelknerdoesn't the first term only become active when september rolls around16:55
replaceafillaelkner, correct16:55
replaceafillok, i'll work on the tree16:55
replaceafillfor the Sections accordion16:56
replaceafillwe may have another "data model issue" with skills16:56
aelknerok, just realize that it will be a real complaint by welsh not to get what he requested on monday16:56
aelknerif that's ok, i don't have a problem either16:56
aelkneri can always say, talk to tom16:56
aelknerreplaceafill, we meet with him today at 5:00, can you join us th1a?16:57
th1aIt is probably cleaner than trying to collapse them, because then the user has the problem of actually seeing the section in the term he or she wants.16:57
th1aaelkner and replaceafill:  It is not at all ok to schedule meetings with welsh without telling me.16:58
aelknerwhat the user, and by user i mean people we actually know here, wants is this:16:58
aelknerfor admins and teachers, each section only appears once in a list16:58
aelknerits entry shows what terms the section is scheduled for16:59
aelknerso an example list for a teacher would be16:59
aelknerMath, MP1-MP2,...16:59
aelknerEnglish, MP3-MP416:59
th1aWhat welsh wants is a completely redesigned term and section system.  Failing that, we need to do what makes sense for SchoolTool.16:59
th1aThat then either requires the user to select the right link to get to the right section of the term or for us to guess right.17:00
th1aIt is no more steps to have the user select the term first.17:00
aelknerwe had an answer for that, remember replaceafill?17:00
replaceafillthe current term, right?17:00
aelknerreplaceafill, you seemed to have forgotten the things we agreed to with welsh17:00
replaceafillaelkner, i didnt17:01
aelknerth1a, sorry we had this meeting without you17:01
th1aWhat if that is not what the user wants?17:01
th1aI think a term-based tree is most clear and explicit.17:01
replaceafillaelkner, i just know that in this particular case th1a's opinion is different from dwelsh17:02
th1aIf we expand the active tree by default the end result is the same anyhow.17:02
aelknernot exactly the same, as my example above demonstrates, MP3-MP4 class will not appear17:02
aelknerbut i can't insist, only suggest17:03
th1aIt will be in the tree.17:03
th1aThis really needs to be a tree anyhow, because it will get big quickly.17:03
th1aWe need to strike a balance where we aren't burdening the user with artifacts of our data model (every section is listed four times) but still make sure you're showing them all the data and giving them cues to the underlying structure.17:06
aelknerthat's what the MP1-MP4 part was intended for, to cue the fact that the section is for those terms17:07
aelknerit would be listed just once but show the term range, and that's all that is interesting17:07
aelknerbut, granted, it doesn't address the use case where enrollment varies from term to term17:08
th1aI think a tree is clearest.17:08
th1aLet's try that.17:08
th1aCan we do that today replaceafill?17:08
replaceafillthat's what we had17:08
replaceafilli'll try to have it ready by 517:08
replaceafillso dwelsh can see it17:08
th1aAh, that's where I got the idea.  ;-)17:09
replaceafillmy data model issue?17:09
replaceafilldwelsh also asked for two skills concepts:17:09
replaceafillcore and additional17:09
replaceafillright now, we only have required/optional17:10
replaceafillcore and additional relate to the "context" where the skill is assigned17:10
replaceafilllike all skills related to a course may be core17:10
replaceafilland other skillls coming from different course lists may be additional17:10
replaceafillwe don't have that in the current data model, afaik17:11
replaceafilldwelsh wants to be able to select a single skill from a course17:12
replaceafilland right now the data model only relates courses with "full" skillsets17:12
replaceafilli mean, it's not possible to select a single skill to relate to17:12
th1aThis is the problem with you guys talking to welsh without me.17:13
replaceafillsorry th1a17:13
th1aWe shouldn't be adding new features to CanDo now.17:13
th1aWe don't need to do this until all the standard skill assignment functionality is solid.17:14
replaceafilli haven't added it, i just told welsh i'd ask yvl about it17:14
replaceafilli think these new concepts are part of skill assignment, aren't they?17:15
aelknerth1a, i wouldn't talk to welsh when you don't want, but then again, you did suggest that i handle things with him without bothering you, too, so we need to figure out when that is the case17:15
th1aWe'll work it out but we can't get bogged down on new stuff.17:15
th1aaelkner:  Pretty much only on his custom importers.17:15
replaceafillth1a, ok, so i should stick to required/optional for now to finish the view?17:16
aelkneri can't wait until 5:00 :)17:16
aelknersparks will be flying, and i'll just get a free show17:16
th1aThe process is this:17:17
th1aWelsh detects a problem.17:17
th1a(he's right about that)17:17
th1aWelsh proposes a solution.17:18
th1a(which is not right for SchoolTool as a whole)17:18
th1aHe and I argue about why he is wrong.17:18
th1aI come up with a third solution.17:18
th1aHe's fine with it.17:18
aelknersounds like a happy ending17:18
th1aOK, so replaceafill has something to do.17:19
th1aaelkner:  I'm getting worried that section importing is never going to end.17:19
replaceafillDone links now look like secondary buttons17:20
replaceafilllet me know if you detect one i missed17:20
replaceafill(i haven't finished the gradebook/journal Done buttons)17:20
replaceafillth1a, i added better css to put the Done next to Search in filter widgets17:21
th1aI'll send an email with some shots to CL.17:21
replaceafillth1a, should i land this to trunk?17:22
replaceafillor wait for their feedback?17:22
replaceafillnm, i'll wait :)17:22
th1aWe can wait as long as we don't forget we did it until I'm looking at the 12.10 release.17:22
th1areplaceafill:  Didn't we move those buttons!?!?17:23
th1aOK.  Thanks replaceafill.17:24
th1aSo aelkner, where are we with section import?17:25
aelknerok, so i finished writing and manually testing the importers as we discussed17:27
aelkneri went to write the corresponding exporters, and some issues came up17:27
aelkneri realized that our Sections sheet makes incorrect assumptions17:28
aelknernamely, that sections that are linked have the same section id in each term17:28
aelknerour data model does not enforce that, so generating a Sections sheet on export is problematic17:29
aelknerwhat if a section is encountered that is linked to another with different id in another term17:29
th1aOK.  Good point.17:29
aelkneri'm bummed because i thought you had a good idea with the separate sheets17:30
th1aJust do the old way of designating before and after.17:30
th1aIt doesn't change that aspect.17:30
th1aJust the term linking columns.17:30
aelknerthe cols are Year, Courses, Start Ter,, End Term, Section ID, title, description17:31
aelkneroh, and teachers and resources17:31
aelknerwhat change are you suggesting?17:32
th1aThe current version has... I don't know how they're labeled... previous and next?17:32
th1aDoesn't it?17:32
aelknerFlatSectionsTable, you mean, right?17:32
aelknerthat requires defining the section, with id, in each term17:33
aelknerand specifying the previous id and next id for linkage17:33
aelknerare you saying, get rid of Start Term, End Term, and replace wth just Term17:34
aelknerand have the section defined for each term with whatever id, and prov, next ids?17:34
th1aI think we have to.17:34
th1aWell, unless we want to give up on round tripping.17:35
th1aI don't think it is worth not being able to round trip.17:35
aelkneri would tend to agree17:35
th1aThe overall splitting of section creation and enrollment I still think is important.17:35
aelknerdumping and loading is just a basic requirement for any robust database management system17:35
th1aWell, this isn't a robust database management system, but it is handy.17:37
aelknerthing is, we really were hoping for being able to have one occurrence of the section with students17:37
aelknerthat's why you suggested the Start Term, End Term17:37
aelknerso that we didn't need four copies of the same list of thirty students17:38
th1aI don't think it is a big deal per se.17:38
th1aWe could just allow you to specify multiple sections in the enrollment form.17:39
th1aThat would just make it not a "flat" table.17:40
aelknerit's a sticky situation, can we discuss this via hangout17:40
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replaceafillSections accordion18:10
th1aOh, if I'm not here at 5:00, you still can show David the changes to the section views.18:20
replaceafillth1a, btw18:20
th1aI think they are both improvements he should be happy with.18:20
replaceafillwe have another meeting with dwelsh on friday at 5:00 pm :)18:20
aelknerreplaceafill, th1a, i forgot to mention18:21
aelkneri fond and fixed a bug in core18:21
aelknerthe resource importer didn't import the description, it never has18:22
th1aWe'll have to move the friday meeting.  I have tee-ball.18:22
replaceafillth1a, ah ok18:22
aelknerso i changed that, but i haven't merged to trunk yet18:22
th1aOK, thanks aelkner.18:22
aelknerreplaceafill, for now, just don't worry about it18:22
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:22
replaceafillaelkner, kk18:22
aelknerth1a, move the meeting to when?18:22
th1aLet's just move it to Monday.  A friday evening meeting doesn't help much.18:23
replaceafillaelkner, i got the files, thanks!18:25
* replaceafill goes to get breakfast18:26
* replaceafill back18:52
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aelknerth1a, ayt?20:05
aelkneri'm going to send you seom xls files and invite you to a hangout20:05
aelknerdid you get my invite?20:07
th1ajust a sec.20:08
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dreichhey, replacefill, we're having a problem with selenium tests21:21
pgulleyit's odd- They're running without issue now on my machine, however dreich's is producing error.21:21
pgulleyour code is identical.21:22
dreichas in, I even re-branched pyquiz and it's still error-ing21:22
replaceafillwhat's the error?21:22
dreichrather, not error21:22
replaceafillcan you paste it pastebin.com21:23
replaceafilllet me try running the tests21:25
replaceafillrev 5121:26
replaceafilltests pass here21:28
replaceafilldreich, you sure you don't have any uncommited changes21:29
dreichthat's what I'd thought it was, but it even fails in a fresh branch21:29
replaceafillwith the same result21:29
replaceafilldreich, what version of chromedriver are you using?21:35
dreich's the same one as pgulley, we downloaded from the same place21:37
th1areplaceafill:  I'm getting a forbidden attribute when I try to add a project.21:42
replaceafillth1a, local instance?21:42
replaceafillcan you paste the error please?21:43
th1aIt still creates it.21:43
replaceafilldid it ask you to log in?21:43
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replaceafillth1a_, confirmed21:45
replaceafillthe redirection from the add form is wrong21:45
replaceafill    def nextURL(self):21:46
replaceafill        return absoluteURL(self.worksheet, self.request)21:46
replaceafillshould send you to the worksheet's gradebook21:46
replaceafillth1a, fixed21:48
replaceafilldreich, could you:21:51
replaceafillmake dev21:51
replaceafillgo to http://localhost:56544/setSessionData?username=userB21:51
replaceafilland then to http://localhost:56544421:51
replaceafill"make dev" starts the test proxy server used in the tests21:52
dreichI just branched it again and am optimistically running tests, but I'll do that once it fails :)21:52
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dreichyep, same deal21:54
* th1a is heading over to at AS220.21:55
dreichand then I added userB that way, and it worked!21:55
dreichbooted me to the login screen21:55
replaceafilllooks like a sessions problem21:57
dreichis there a way to verify that it tears down between tests?21:57
replaceafillthe order of tests!21:57
replaceafillit doesn't tear down21:57
replaceafilldreich, run:21:58
replaceafillbin/test -v21:58
replaceafillyou should see the order of the tests21:58
dreichok, thanks, I'll let it run.  also, that dev server is really cool21:59
dreichalso, I tried just running app.txt and none of the others, and it worked22:00
replaceafillhere's how mine are run:22:03
replaceafillfrom the TODO.txt:22:05
replaceafill* Create a nice test environment:22:05
replaceafill  - Change the use of tests views like addPerson and setSessionData22:05
replaceafill    for good test setups22:05
replaceafillwe need good test setups :D22:05
dreichyeah, mine's
replaceafillglad the app is not broken ;)22:08
replaceafillthe test setup is :(22:08
dreich is there any reason not to restart the database/session between tests?22:08
replaceafillnot really22:09
replaceafilltests dont depend on each other22:09
replaceafillthey shouldnt22:09
replaceafilli can tackle that tonight22:10
replaceafillor you can do it now if you want22:10
dreichi'll look into it now, pgulley and I won't be around for too much longer22:10
dreichbut i'll see what I can get22:10
replaceafilli think i can reproduce22:11
replaceafillusing bin/test --shuffle22:11
* replaceafill tries22:11
replaceafillreproduced :)22:13
dreichnice, it's not just me!22:13
dreichwhere do you reccomend I look?22:13
replaceafillgive it a try or i'll make sure you have it working by tomorrow22:16
* replaceafill goes to get lunch22:16
dreichok, I just found out I need to go to a class right now, so I'm not gonna be able to get anything done22:17
dreichthanks a lot though!  see you tomorrow22:17
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pgulleyI'm heading out now as well22:33
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