IRC log of #schooltool for Thursday, 2011-08-25

replaceafilli'll leave it up, but won't push anything00:00
replaceafilleven doesn't look so terrible after some styling :D00:01
replaceafillthat dotted line under the header makes big difference00:02
th1aI think that long middle paragraph is obselete anyhow.00:03
replaceafill"We're working on making this process even smoother. " :D00:04
th1aI think aelkner cleaned it up.00:06
th1aJust see how it looks without the middle paragraph.00:12
th1aThat looks ok and really is as long as we should need to go.00:13
th1aAlso, make it "What is This?"00:13
th1aI think "What is This?" is good for indicating where these should be used.00:14
th1aOK.  Thanks.  Time to make some dinner.00:18
replaceafillk, see u th1a00:18
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th1ahi aelkner, yvl, menesis, replaceafill.16:30
th1aHow are you feeling aelkner?16:30
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:30
yvlhey guys16:30
aelknerth1a, much better thanks16:31
aelkneri got a lot done last night16:31
th1aOK, replaceafill and I have something to show aelkner & yvl.16:31
th1areplaceafill, linky please?16:31
yvlthe return of the sidebar! :)16:32
yvloh, and "What is This"...16:32
* yvl like.16:32
th1aNow... this wouldn't mean a drastic expansion of the amount of on-screen explanation.16:32
th1aPretty much where it is now, infrequently used screens that make people wonder "What is this?"16:33
yvllooks very good, really16:34
aelknera good use of otherwise unused space,16:34
th1aOK, settled then!16:34
th1aAlso it is good for making me disciplined about how much I ramble on there, since it is such a narrow column.16:35
th1aOK aelkner, what's up?16:36
aelkneri see that the delete button on scoresystems doesn't ask for cnfirmation16:37
aelkneri'm glad because the one on my templates view deoesn't, either16:37
th1aWell... maybe it should but also it is just a hide, right?16:37
aelkneri created the templates view and was about to create a report sheet view16:37
aelknerso that a user could add report sheets to a tempalte they just added16:38
aelknerthen i figured, why not make it look like the terms view where both levels are showed together16:38
th1aAlso, we don't want to scare people away from deleting the default score systems if they aren't relevant locally (which will usually be the case).16:38
aelknerand the adding of templates AND report activities would be done from the same place16:38
th1aWell, let's see it.16:39
aelknersp without further ado,
th1aThat's a little too much.16:40
aelkneroh well, i hoped you wouldn't say that :)16:40
aelknerbut i thought you might16:40
th1atbh, the term view is going to change too.16:40
th1aBut anyhow,16:41
th1aYeah, it is just not necessary.16:41
aelknerwhy do you not like the two level view?16:41
aelkneri think it allows the user to see the dimension of the data easly16:42
th1aThey don't really need to.16:42
th1aThis isn't a kind of view that you need to make quick for power users.16:42
th1aIt is much more important that everything be clear.16:42
th1aAnd I blinked at that view for a while before I understood that I was looking at sheets and activities mixed together.16:43
aelknerwell, anyway, the main work of getting the add and edit views written is not lost16:43
aelknerso i sould change it back to templates only16:43
th1aMoving things around should be easy.16:43
aelknerand i can make the template title a link to the template page for adding activities16:43
aelknerand the edit pencil can stay for changing the template title, right?16:43
aelknerback to two columns with just title, pencil oin col 1, delete icon in col 2?16:44
th1aOh... can they both be one view?16:44
th1aAlso, we don't really need delete here.16:45
th1aIt can be in the edit view.16:45
th1aWe've kind of slipped back into this "people need to look at delete options all the time" pattern which I don't think is actually helpful.16:45
aelknerwell, i noticed that timetable schemas are deleted from the timetable view16:47
aelknerwith the Delete link on the left16:47
yvlthat pattern is useful only for batch deletions if you ask me :)16:47
th1aYeah, I know, we've drifted in the wrong direction with that.16:47
th1aIt is not your fault aelkner.16:47
aelknernp, i'll do whatever we feel is the up to date solution16:48
th1aIt is poor management.  ;-)16:48
yvlnah, th1a16:48
aelknerno blaming needed16:48
yvlthat stuff always happens with UI redesigns16:48
th1aWe just have the pattern ingrained in our heads after 5 years or so.16:48
* yvl hopes we will keep improving UI somewhat after this release16:48
th1aAnyhow, making that change RIGHT NOW is not a priority.16:48
yvlright :)16:49
aelknerso shall we go over the particulars after the meeting16:49
th1aThanks aelkner.16:49
replaceafillcan i revert the right sidebar changes for a while, just to show my changes from yesterday?16:50
replaceafilli saved the diffs so i can put the sidebar back later16:50
replaceafill(with appropriate css)16:50
aelknerreplaceafill, i caught you push late last night16:50
aelknerglad there wasn't any conflicts :)16:50
replaceafillaelkner :)16:50
replaceafilli couldn't sleep ;)16:50
th1aaelkner is making me think of rubric + magick.16:51
aelknerluckily, you worked on a completely different part16:51
* aelkner can't always spell16:51
aelkneryou should see my brother16:51
replaceafilli fixed the report overview page16:52
replaceafilladded the layer filtering we discussed16:52
* th1a is picturing Alistair Crowley using SchoolTool...16:52
replaceafillalso, check the Export as XLS option16:53
replaceafillcheck the Reports options16:54
replaceafillsame on
replaceafilland finally
th1aProbably those term reports should include the year in the label.16:54
replaceafilli think those are all the reports we have so far16:54
th1aThe idea of the overview is so we keep track of what reports we have.  ;-)16:55
th1aSo presumably we've caught them all.16:55
yvla small nitpick - the views that allow selection of say terms prior to getting the report - could say "Download" instead of "Submit"16:55
replaceafillyvl ah!16:56
replaceafillwill fix16:56
yvland I see that some reports are broken by timetable remake - will be on that first thing tomorrow16:56
replaceafillyvl i changed the mimetype for the xls export16:57
replaceafillfrom application/excel to...16:57
aelknerth1a, i was going to answer your question about reimporting last night16:57
aelknerbut i figured it easier here16:57
aelkneri believe that reimporting is supported now as part of my reorg last year16:57
aelknerhowever, the only tests i added was for catching errors, so i can't guarantee anything16:58
aelkneri don't know if that helps you decide what to do with the bug report16:58
th1aIt is probably good enough to not require a paragraph long disclaimer.16:58
yvl+1 replaceafill16:58
th1aMaybe just a sentence.16:59
aelkneri would agree16:59
replaceafillyvl i just wanted my browser to show calc in the "open with" options ;)16:59
aelkneri would say nothing until we know something is potentially dangerous16:59
aelknerreplaceafill, sorry for stepping on your discussion16:59
replaceafillaelkner np16:59
replaceafillplease log in again as tom:tom17:00
replaceafilland check
replaceafilli fixed the gap in the gradebook (finally!)17:00
replaceafillth1a that's it from me17:01
yvlby the way17:01
th1aIs there some reason my sidebar is missing?  What's the most definitive way to force a full reload?17:01
aelkneri see you added Activity/Points for explanation17:01
yvla small thing bothered me a bit17:01
aelknerthat's a nice idea17:02
aelknerone thing though17:02
yvlcan we - at some point - switch from three zoom buttons doing + 0 -17:02
aelknerperhaps it would be better to not show those when there are no activities yet?17:02
yvlto [small] [medium] [large] ?17:02
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replaceafillaelkner +117:02
replaceafillyvl you mean to predefined sizes?17:03
replaceafilli'd like that17:03
replaceafillmore control for us17:03
th1ayvl:  I have no strong opinion, but is sounds like a reasonable idea.17:03
yvlwe have 7 available sizes now I think17:03
yvland you need to hunt the jumpy + button 7 times when zooming in17:03
replaceafillwell, it goes from 7-18 font sizes, starting at 1017:03
replaceafillyvl i hate that!17:03
replaceafill(hunting the buttons)17:04
th1aBrowsers enforce minimums, right?17:04
th1a(at least some do)17:04
* yvl does not know that17:05
th1aIn this case you'd want smallest, smaller, regular.17:05
* th1a checks his preferences...17:05
th1aI think firefox does.17:06
yvlI'd rather go with preset sizes17:06
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th1aI'm ok with it, it is just a question of which one.17:07
th1aI see no use case for bigger.17:07
th1aIf you can't see our standard font, you'd already have zoomed everything.17:07
th1aJust zooming the gradebook grid won't help.17:07
yvlbut it will17:07
yvlgradebook has that scroll thingy17:07
yvland if you zoom your browser, you don't get that17:07
yvland that thingy adds some usability17:08
yvlanyway, sorry for interruption17:09
replaceafillah! i have a question!17:09
th1aWe can address that later.17:09
replaceafillso far the journal has been using the gradebook's resources (css and js)17:09
replaceafillwhich makes it dependent17:09
replaceafillcan i put at least the css in core?17:10
replaceafillso they can share it?17:10
th1aYou should do that for both as far as I'm concerned.17:10
yvlplease don't17:10
replaceafillwell, yes17:10
th1ayvl, I don't understand your concern about this.17:10
aelkneri pushed for that in the past, now replaceafill joins me :)17:10
replaceafillyvl independent copies then?17:10
aelkneryvl, yeah, what's with that? :)17:11
yvlwell, frankly, do whatever17:11
th1aThe next CanDo will use these.17:11
yvlthere's nothing that can't be fixed later on ;)17:11
aelkneryvl threatens to hold his breath until he turns purple...17:11
th1aI get very confused when Lithuanians appear to be arguing for cross-dependencies.17:12
aelknerseriously, though, yvl, why not have a grid definition in core?17:12
yvlsimplest reason - there is no grid in core17:12
th1aArguably, the purpose of the schooltool data model is to make it easy to write grid-based applications.17:13
yvlwell if that does not convince you, then, well, I have absolutely no arguments17:13
aelkneryvl :)17:13
aelknerjust as th1a just said, it's nice when something is defined in core17:13
replaceafillwell, sharing the resources has allowed me to work nicely in both at the same time17:13
aelknerthen the plugins have a guide for consistency17:13
yvlwhat can I say17:14
aelknerthat you already haven't?17:14
yvlI really should have solved the thing with journal17:14
yvlbut I haven't17:14
aelknerhow would have you?17:14
yvlmy fault.17:14
aelknercreate a grid class in core?17:14
yvlwell, solving is a thing - you sit down and solve.17:15
yvlif you know how precisely, it needs not solving :)17:15
aelkneri was looking for more specifics :)17:15
yvlthat's the thing17:15
yvlthere's a common pattern of mess all over ST17:15
yvland it bites us a bit - from time to time17:16
yvlreally - do whatever now :)17:16
yvlit won't hurt the situation that bad :)17:16
th1aWe will now do whatever.17:16
yvlobviously :P17:17
th1aMoving on...17:17
aelkneri vote for defining what a grid is in core17:17
replaceafillk, thanks then17:17
th1aaelkner:  That's whatever.17:17
aelknercss and js, and use it in the plugins, that's it for me17:17
* aelkner out :)17:17
* yvl thinks /me is too defensive when it comes to core17:18
* replaceafill thinks yvl will be less defensive once the gradebook is in core :D17:19
th1aThanks aelkner.17:19
yvlfinished the import section CSV17:19
yvland done some tweaks you were asking before17:19
yvlrename levels17:19
yvlsome proper hiliting of School tab17:20
yvlthat import view has a problem that I've forgotten before17:20
yvlit's not clear what defines a unique section17:20
yvlespecially - when you want to update it17:20
th1aThey have id's, right?17:21
* yvl is sometimes... just plain dumb.17:21
th1aWe kind of hide them.17:21
yvlok, that's my report17:22
th1aSo... what have we forgotten?17:22
* yvl didn't find it :|17:23
th1amenesis, ayt?17:23
yvlprobably that's what happens when you look at stuff too long17:23
yvlmenesis wandered off somewhere ;)17:23
th1aOK, so basically I'm going to go over more of the text now, especially since we actually have a strategy for where explanation goes, and menesis can start working on getting the translation stuff packaged up first thing Monday.17:24
th1areplaceafill:  What do you have left in your queue?17:24
replaceafillcss fixes17:25
replaceafillfix the negative margin issue17:25
replaceafillstyle the term forms17:25
replaceafillah! the resource evolution script!17:25
aelkneri still need to make the gradebook textual changes, but i prioritized getting the templates going17:25
replaceafill7. Remove ethnicity field from default demographics fields17:26
* yvl could look at merging conflicts with trunk... for gradebook I think17:26
th1aOh, term forms, let's do that today.17:26
replaceafillth1a ok17:26
aelknerth1a, can we go first on my stuff, i promise it will go fast17:26
th1ayvl:  Yeah, you can just try to step back and look at the whole thing tomorrow.  Poke around the old version for things we forgot, file some bugs.17:27
th1aWe need to start making bug reports with a flourish tag.17:27
th1aaelkner:  Yes.17:27
yvlwe just need a flourished milestone in LP ;)17:27
th1aSchwa is going to send me more SchoolTool logo ideas before we lose our minds and think about flourish branding.17:28
* yvl is anxiously awaits them :)17:28
th1aThey tried to sell me on the four circles concept.  I finally pointed out that only in English are there four O's in SchoolTool.17:29
th1aOK, thanks guys.  The finish line is in sight!17:30
th1a(of the first heat)17:30
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:30
th1aaelkner:  I'm going to get some coffee.17:30
yvlmenesis, please do "some stuff" so we have a place to log flourish bugs -- if you haven't already17:31
yvlthanks in advance :)17:31
yvland good luck, guys! :)17:31
* yvl brain no worky17:31
yvlthe thing we were always doing17:32
* replaceafill goes to get breakfast17:32
yvlwith 1.4 etc.17:32
* yvl thinks those were milestones17:32
menesisI think tag flourish is enough17:32
th1aOK, aelkner, what are we looking at?17:37
aelknerso for starters, what do we really want at that level?17:38
aelknera table with one column, just title?17:38
th1aApparently so.17:38
aelknerclick on it and you get a combo edit title/ad activity view?17:39
th1aI'd say.17:39
aelkneradn i could have a Delete link at that level, like timetable schema17:39
th1aIn the sidebar.17:39
aelknerto delete the entire template17:39
aelknerwith a warning modal17:39
th1aWell, confirmation I guess.17:40
aelknerthat's what i meant17:40
aelknerjust like the timetable schema delete17:40
aelkneri think that is very friendly to the user17:40
th1aIt's a toss-up whether it is necessary at all.17:40
aelknerwasy to do, not easy to screw up data17:40
th1aSure, go ahead.17:41
aelknerso for the template view, it can have a standard form with cancel submit17:41
aelknerand then below it the table with activities17:41
aelknershould i have an Add sidebar for adding the activity?17:42
aelkneror do we want to use the + icon?17:42
th1aIF there is not a place for the + then the sidebar is fine.17:42
aelknerthe only place would be in the table header, right?17:42
aelknerit's not very clean there, is it?17:42
th1aOr really we could just put an add link under the table.17:43
th1aNot necessarily a reason to make the user look all the way to the sidebar for pretty much the only thing you're likely to do on the page.17:43
aelknerwe have three options stated just here:17:43
aelkner1) in the sidebar17:43
th1aLet's try under.17:43
aelkner2) as a link at the bottom of that table17:43
aelknerentitled, 'Add Report Activity'?17:44
th1aIf we don't like it we'll move it.17:44
aelkneror + icon?17:44
th1aLet's try text first.17:44
aelknerand the links in the activities tables should go to edit view?17:44
aelknersingular i meant17:45
th1aTo edit the activity?17:45
aelknerwe need to allow for that17:45
aelknerok, and from the edit activity view, another Delete sidebar?17:46
aelknerwith same confirmation model17:46
th1aNow that maybe could just be in the table.17:46
aelknersomehow, the user needs to be able to delete an activity17:46
th1aAnd I don't think you need a confirmation.17:46
aelkneroh, ok17:47
aelknerright. why not17:47
th1aThese are lightweight and people will delete them a lot while they're trying figure out how the fuck this thing works.17:47
aelknerok, so the activities table has Title and Delete? headings, right?17:47
th1aWhy don't you put the title and score system of the activity in the table as well.17:48
aelknerTitle, Score System, Delete? as the three cols?17:48
aelknerok, i got it all now17:49
aelkneri'll do all that, get the gradebook text changes going and start on deploying templates for tomorrow17:50
th1aOK.  Cool.17:50
replaceafillth1a what changes do you want in term styles?18:05
th1aOK... what URL are we looking at?18:06
th1aWhy don't we just make schooldays bold for starters.18:07
th1aI just don't think we need the gray across the top and side.18:07
th1aMaybe just take it off the side?18:07
th1aActually, just take it all out for starters.18:08
th1aHow about just gray for the month row.18:11
th1aSome other subtle cue for school days would be good.18:13
th1aDo we have a just slightly darker gray in our palette?18:13
replaceafillthe one used in table headers18:14
th1aI meant lighter.  ;-D18:14
replaceafillno, i think we dont18:15
th1aOK.  Make one up then.18:16
th1aI meant - a gray slightly darker than the current background.18:16
th1aBut lighter than the other darker grays.18:16
th1aTo try to be clear.18:17
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th1aGood.  I'm ok with that.18:21
replaceafillit looks better in chrome :|18:21
replaceafillah, the ubuntu font ;)18:21
th1aOh, the edit form is a bigger mess.18:22
th1aActually, I think we just need to make it not have the standard form background.18:22
th1aAnd maybe tidy up the buttons.18:22
replaceafill(the edit form)18:24
th1aMuch better already, you could just change the color of everything under the header.18:25
replaceafilli was thinking of removing the second fieldset18:25
replaceafilli mean, the background18:25
replaceafilldo you want "  Please specify which days are school days, and which days are holidays.  " in a box?18:26
replaceafillmaybe just an h3?18:26
th1aThat would be ok.18:27
th1aWe just need to cut down the boxes in boxes here.18:27
th1aOK, that's too little.  ;-)18:28
th1aI think we need the dark gray bar.18:28
th1aWe should make this page work with the refresh button.18:29
th1aEven if it just reloads automatically.18:29
replaceafillcould we join the two toggle paragraphs?18:30
replaceafillClick on a day to toggle its state.  You can also toggle the days of a week:18:31
replaceafillor something like that?18:31
replaceafillso we move the buttons below the text18:31
th1aTry it.18:32
replaceafilli think we could change the text in the box: "Please specify which days are school days, and which days are holidays."18:38
replaceafilljust to School days and holidays18:38
replaceafillor sometihng18:38
th1aSpecify which days school is in session.18:39
th1aI guess we can keep the "specify."18:40
th1aThe "please" I mean.18:40
replaceafillah ok18:40
replaceafilldo we need the Holiday mark?18:41
replaceafillor maybe we should use a color for it?18:41
th1aWell, we could differentiate between holidays and days not insession just because of the day of the week.18:46
replaceafillwhy is the Refresh button for?18:49
th1aI guess just if you change the start and end dates?18:50
th1aHm... That could be "Submit" just as easily.18:51
th1aANd then "Save changes" should just be "Submit"18:51
th1aAnd... we're done?18:51
replaceafillcan we repeat the submit part please?18:52
th1aChange the legend to In Session | Out of Session18:52
th1aOr Not In Session18:52
replaceafilllet me fix the css for that part18:55
th1aDo you think we can just change those buttons to "Submit" ?19:03
replaceafilli like 'Save changes' -> 'Submit'19:04
th1aBUt also, refresh is really just submitting anyhow right?19:05
th1aOr does it reload without saving?19:05
th1aIf so, why?19:05
replaceafillit reloads without saving19:05
th1aThat's too inconsistent at this point with the rest of the app, I'd say.19:05
replaceafilli get the point about refreshing after you changed the days19:06
th1aI think it should save the changes at that point -- I don't see why not.19:07
th1aI'm going to have to go get lunch.19:08
replaceafillah ok19:09
replaceafilli'll change Save changes -> Submit19:09
replaceafillis it me or you can't add a school year because of the date fields....19:16
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* th1a is back.19:55
replaceafillth1a based on our discussion this morning, should i take the delete buttons out of
replaceafilland move the option to the score system index view?20:08
th1aWhat's the final word on the term calendar view?20:09
replaceafillhhmm i like it the way it is now20:09
th1aWhat does the refresh at the bottom do?20:10
replaceafillyeah, it doesnt save, just reloads the form20:10
replaceafillRefresh at the bottom = Refresh at the top20:10
replaceafilli wonder if we need the one at the bottom...20:11
th1aI'd say not.20:12
* replaceafill goes to get lunch22:01
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