IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2011-08-24

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th1ahi menesis, replaceafill, aelkner, yvl.16:31
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
th1amenesis:  Does your great auto-setup thing I used add intervention?  (i.e., it seems to not)16:31
th1aOh... no I see.16:33
yvlhey guys16:33
th1aI get a location error if I try to view an intervention as administrator from the new link from the person sidebar.16:34
th1ae.g.: http://localhost:7080/persons/student119/intervention/intervention_center.html16:34
th1aDoes my video work.  Any grave concerns?16:35
yvlyes, it works16:36
aelkneri don't have a facebook account (not really wanting to), so i can't see it myself16:36
replaceafillme neither16:36
menesisupload to youtube/vimeo?16:36
th1aDid you try aelkner?  I was wondering if you actually needed one.16:36
aelknerit asked me to sign in16:37
th1aI wasn't sure of facebook's definition of "everyone."16:37
yvl"everyone"... in facebook ;)16:37
aelknereveryone in their little harvard-based club16:37
th1aOK.  Basically of the things I could click before going to bed that would put it on the web, facebook worked.16:37
th1aVimeo just takes another step I didn't have time for.16:37
th1aSo, fine.16:37
th1aBelieve me, I hate facebook too.16:38
yvldid you try youtube?16:38
yvlyou can use your gmail account to log in16:38
th1aIt is strictly a matter of which thing worked with one click from Quicktime.16:38
th1aI'll get it on vimeo manuall.16:38
th1aDid the video seem passable, yvl.16:39
th1aIt isn't meant to be a big promotional tool, but just an update for the community.16:39
yvlit did look like a first try16:39
th1aIt was like the third try!16:39
yvland the part where you could only click the edit icon in the fourth try was a bit quirky16:40
th1aMy server is a little slow.16:40
yvlno, the icon was too small, you could not click it with a mouse16:40
th1aOr, did I miss it?16:40
yvl3 times16:40
th1aWell, that's not a problem with the video!16:40
yvltrue :D16:41
th1aHm.  Well, maybe I can do it over.16:41
algayou could also improve the visual quality of your mugshot with some simple techniques16:41
algalet me find the link...16:42
th1aLike shaving?16:42
th1aI just added that at the last minute.16:42
algathat would help, too :)16:42
th1aOK, I'll do it over.16:42
* yvl actually got thinking about can we convince David Welsh to narrate it ;) -- to get some of that marketing bling that excites people16:42
yvlbut it will be a great video after some small updates16:43
th1aYeah... I'm not thinking of this as public marketing.16:43
th1aAll right.  I'll try again.16:43
th1aIt could be shorter, right?16:43
th1aMoving on (since nobody else has seen it anyhow)16:44
yvlbut basically you could do that by taking smaller pauses with explanation16:44
algaIt could be damaging to the project if someone would think that this was an attempt at public marketing :)16:44
yvlI don't know how people do that... a script maybe or something16:44
th1aOK, ok!16:44
yvlsorry, th1a16:44
yvltrying to be helpful :)16:44
th1aIt is -- obviously I did it pretty quickly.16:45
menesisI think the video was good :)16:45
th1aIt's not going to get much more exciting.16:46
th1aJust a little smoother.16:46
th1aOK, yvl, what have you been up to?16:46
yvlthats more than fine, th1a16:46
yvlwell, I'm still working on CSV views16:46
yvldown to the last one, importing a section with a schedule16:47
yvlit is a bit problematic for several reasons16:47
yvlfirst, it's broken by timetable remake16:47
th1aWe could kill it probably.16:47
yvlsecond, it does not work with linked sections - and it simply has to16:48
th1aIt imports one section?16:48
yvlone or more16:48
yvl+ members16:48
yvl+ schedule16:48
th1aWould CanDo be using this version now?16:48
th1areplaceafill, aelkner?16:48
th1aOr do they have their own anyhow?16:48
* yvl thinks that we should keep it16:48
yvlin any case - I'm halfway done with it16:49
replaceafillcando has its own importer16:49
yvlneed 3-5 more hours16:49
yvlthat's it from me then.16:50
th1aOK, looking at "Teaching Levels"16:50
th1aFirst they should become "Grade Levels"16:51
th1aUnless those of you in different countries are wildly confused by the term.16:51
th1aAny objections?16:51
yvlno :)16:51
yvlGrade Levels are better! :)16:51
th1aYou need a "No grade levels have been defined." message16:52
th1aTake out the hint for Title.16:52
yvlall of them?16:53
th1aWell, in Grade Level.16:53
th1aBasically hints that offer no additional info should go.16:53
th1aTitle: This is the title.16:53
th1aShould go.16:53
th1aDescription: Description of the thing.16:54
th1aIs worse than nothing.16:54
yvloh, so clean up all of the links in Manage School16:54
th1aI was referring to teaching levels.16:54
th1aGrade levels.16:54
yvllike Groups [Manage Groups]16:54
th1aYes, specifically I just meant in New level.16:54
yvlok, got it16:55
yvlwhoopsy on my part with that hint16:55
th1aOK.  Thanks yvl.16:56
th1aOh, one more thing yvl.16:57
th1aWe actually want a different jquery calendar widget.16:57
th1aThe one replaceafill was using that makes it easy to jump to the year.16:57
th1a(for birthdays in particular)16:57
yvlwas going to ask which one :)16:58
th1aalso (I went and got my list)16:58
th1aI guess a minor point of style (open to debate, I guess) is whether you need a comma when you just have month and year.16:59
th1aAugust 201116:59
th1aAugust, 201116:59
th1aI don't think you need it, but I guess since you do need it if you have the date, I don't really care.17:00
th1a24 August, 201117:00
th1anot 24 August 201117:00
yvlbut we should make that fully translatable at some point17:01
th1aTo what extent is it not?17:01
yvlwell, you know - if you have a translation string like ${month}, ${year}17:01
yvlyou can translate it to, say: ${month} of ${year}17:02
yvlin some language17:02
yvlor event ${year} in ${month}17:02
yvland so on17:02
th1aYou can but we don't yet.17:02
yvlI'm really not sure of the status :/17:02
th1aBut month names are translated, correct?17:03
th1aThanks yvl.17:03
yvldate display strings would be one of the things we should go throughly at some time17:03
th1aOK, replaceafill?17:03
replaceafilli added viewlet managers for the Reports section17:04
replaceafillfor school, persons, groups, sections, schoolyears and terms17:04
* aelkner is back17:04
replaceafilland the report overview view (which it's now broken)17:04
replaceafilli broke it because i wanted to modify some of the report links17:05
replaceafillfor instance17:05
replaceafilltitle: Student Detail Report by Group17:05
replaceafillit doesnt make much sense if you're *in* the group17:05
replaceafillwhen you see the link17:05
replaceafillthis works for the Reports group17:06
th1aYes, and you have the category next to it in the overview.17:06
replaceafillyes, but the overview also shows the old versions17:06
replaceafillbecause it doesn't use the flourish layer17:06
replaceafillso i was thinking if we should modify the old version of the report links?17:07
replaceafillwe don't touch old skin code...17:07
th1anot sure what you're asking?17:07
yvlreplaceafill, what do you want to modify?17:08
replaceafillyvl the reportLink directives17:08
replaceafillon the gradebook for example17:08
replaceafilli registered new ones, with the appropriate titles, using layer=...17:08
yvlbut... ?17:09
replaceafillyvl the report reference (or overview) view17:09
replaceafilluses an utililty17:09
replaceafilland the utility takes all the report links registered17:09
aelknerit should check for layer?17:10
yvlwell, there's two options17:10
yvldo a flourish:reportLink directive17:10
replaceafillso i get two : Student Detail Report by Group (the old one) and Student Detail Report (the new one)17:10
yvlor, rather, just modify the old skin reports17:10
th1aYou can modify the old ones.17:10
yvlor you can add a filter by skin and not worry about it17:10
aelkneryvl, isn't that what i just said?!17:11
yvlmy apologies aelkner - I changed my mind very quickly - and now I'm agreeing with you17:11
aelkneryou said, nah17:11
yvlso, whatever is easiest replaceafill17:11
replaceafillyvl so in
replaceafilli should check the layer17:12
yvland I do mean - whatever is easiest and quickest17:12
th1aI'd prefer not to have layer filtering.17:12
replaceafillwill go with the layer check17:12
replaceafillth1a ah17:12
yvlth1a -- with all respect -- it is not your decision to take17:13
th1aAre people going to have to figure out what that means five years from now?17:13
yvlif they're not stupid - then yes17:13
th1aI'm not vetoing it.17:13
yvloh, thanks -- you got me scared a bit17:13
replaceafilli'm ok with both solutions17:13
aelknerit won't be any ore complex than any other layer issue we deal with, so yes, the developer will be able to deal with it17:14
yvlprecisely, aelkner :)17:14
replaceafillk, going with that one then17:14
replaceafilllast comment17:14
replaceafilli made the report managers to create modal dialogs for the report links17:15
replaceafillthere are some reports that produce pdf urls directly17:15
replaceafilli'll need to create a small dialog with a single Download button for them17:15
replaceafilli also have to port the term and school year reports17:16
replaceafillfailures by term and absences by day17:16
replaceafilli guess that's it17:16
replaceafillth1a we need a small description for the xls export17:17
th1aWhere will this come up?17:18
replaceafillfifth row17:18
th1aAlso, make a note that we need to make the rows extend across the middle of the gradebook when it is not full.17:19
th1aWe shouldn't have a void in the middle.17:19
aelkneri think replaceafill already fixed that17:19
replaceafillth1a i have to push that change17:19
aelknerreplaceafill, bad boy17:20
aelkneri was wondering why i got nothing dong a bzr pull17:20
aelknerit wasn't becuase you weren't working on the gradbeook, just not pushing!17:20
th1aYeah guys, please make sure and push things now as I'm trying to figure out what's not doen.17:20
replaceafillmy bad, i have some small tests i've made and not pushed17:21
replaceafilli'll do it when i'm done with the reports work17:21
th1aThanks replaceafill.17:21
th1aaelkner, ?17:21
aelkneri'll be making changes to the gradebook, so look out17:21
aelknerbe sure to pull and merge/resolve any conflicts before pushing to trunk17:22
aelknerwell, that's if i get my stuff in before you do17:22
aelkneras jelkner:jelkner17:22
aelknernote that there is a Done button taking you back to the section17:22
aelkneralso, all buttons leading into the intervention views get you back with their submit, cancel, Done buttons17:23
aelknerand i changed the titles/subtitles as we discussed yesterday17:23
aelkneri think it navigates/titles pretty smoothly now17:23
aelknerthere are holes in the report sheets tab of that view17:24
aelknerthat's because i ddn't have any report sheets17:24
th1aI think we need a class for the messages, with extra margins at left, right and bottom.17:24
aelknersince i'm wokring on them next, i'll have them17:24
th1aThe message text itself.17:25
aelkneryes, there are styling issue with those views17:25
th1aWhy can't I add goals?17:25
aelkneri didn't wire the resource library for css17:25
th1aFrom the section view?17:25
aelkneryvl, why did Lehmann and you decide not to allow goals to be added from section interventions view?17:26
th1aWhat does "Show only goals" mean in the dashboard?17:26
aelknerif it said show only bathrooms, would it be clearer?17:27
aelknerbut seriously17:27
aelknerthe dashboard shows all messages and goals the user is a part of17:27
th1aIt would be clearer if you could also choose to see messages.17:28
aelknerso it's a filter to show only the goals which makes sense if the messages are cluttering up the table17:28
yvlaelkner - I really don't remember any of that, sorry17:28
aelknerth1a, we can change it to allow adding goals, i just don't remember what the thinking was there17:29
th1aWell, we don't need to change the add goals thing now.17:29
th1aWe can, but it is not a priority now.17:29
th1aShow only goals could be a radio button:17:29
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th1aGoals | Messages | Goals and Messages17:30
th1aThat way it explains itself.17:30
aelknerprobably better17:30
aelknerok, i could look into that17:31
aelkneri need to discuss report sheets after the meeting17:31
th1aDid you set up a Data.fs with sample data?17:31
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aelknerno, not yet17:31
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aelknerhow should i do that again?17:32
th1aWell, can you just do it directly now yvl?17:32
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th1aIf not, just import the sample data on an old instance and move the data.fs over.17:32
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th1aThere's at least one performance issue in Intervention, I think.17:33
yvlyes, th1a17:33
aelknerwhat's that?17:33
yvljust import sample data17:33
th1aiirc the search link was very slow.17:33
th1aEasy peasy.17:34
yvltakes a while though17:34
menesisth1a: yes.. because it loads and displays all the persons17:34
yvland you probably want to pack the database afterwards17:34
yvlthe intervention view is just probably not using cataloged tables17:34
th1aSo check that aelkner.17:36
th1aOK, we'll talk report sheets after the meeting.17:36
aelkneryes, that would mean a rewrite of the intervention dashboard to use TableFormatter17:36
yvlintervention students may be not catalogized yet17:36
th1aThat can wait 'til next week, but has to be done.17:36
yvlso you'd need to do that too17:37
aelknerwe'll look into that next week17:37
yvlwell, we have time for such things right until the actual release17:37
aelkneri know th1a wants to focus on text for now17:37
jelkneryvl, i'll start using it soon ;-)17:37
aelknerthen it definitely won't work right :)17:38
jelknerwe want to bring everyone in our school program onto at start of school year17:38
jelknerwhich means i'll be doing training on it next week17:38
yvloh!  so we need to speed it up!17:38
jelknermattva01 will setup our instance on monday17:38
aelknerpushy, istn't he?17:39
yvljelkner - if any strong performance issues - please let us know :)17:39
th1aOK, we'd better get to work.17:39
aelknernot all elkners are, you know17:39
th1athanks aelkner.17:39
jelknerwill do17:39
th1amenesis:  Anything to add today?17:39
yvlhe is a bit unavailable for some 5 minutes or so17:39
aelknerjelkner, but seriously, i look forward to your feedback17:40
th1aIt is essential.17:40
* yvl too17:40
jelkneraelkner, you'll get feedback from our whole department17:40
aelkneroh, joy17:40
yvlcool :)17:41
jelknerbtw, pyquiz is looking great17:41
th1aOK.  I have a meeting with schwa in 45 minutes to try to get the design work unstuck, now that I've convinced them I'm crazy.17:42
jelknerth1a, that wasn't hard, right?17:42
yvlI'm sure they're used to crazy ;)))17:42
yvlDesigners, after all!17:42
aelkneryou had branding concerns that they didn't anticiplate, but i wouldn't cal it crazy17:43
yvlcrazy creative people :)17:43
th1aIt is not hard.17:43
th1aThe problem is when you have to have discussions that would normally happen over ping pong or a beer via basecamp messages.17:43
th1aSeems more serious.17:43
aelkneryeah, you guys seemed to choose your words carefully17:44
th1aUnfortunately, I can't get them to meet more frequently face to face, which kind of defeats the purpose of hiring someone local.17:44
th1aJosh was very judicious.17:44
th1aI'm sure it will be fine -- actually the logo isn't very important anyhow.17:45
yvlwell, just put a bird on it ;)17:45
aelknergood one, yvl17:46
th1aDoes alga know the reference?17:46
yvlyes :)17:46
aelknerit was clasic, so i'm sure yvl shwed him17:46
yvlyes, first thing I did after the sprint I think :)17:47
th1aOK, thanks guys.  We're getting close!17:47
yvllet's keep pushing :)17:48
aelknerit's looking REALLY nice17:48
yvlhmm, did I miss the bag of gravel?17:50
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:50
yvlthanks! :))17:50
yvlsee you tomorrow guys :)17:50
* jelkner will be moving his son to college tomorrow17:51
jelknerdreich, are you here?17:52
aelknercya yvl17:53
jelknerdreich, i need to go now, but please ask pgulley to follow up with the proposed meeting time for september 617:54
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th1aOK, we're going to get more SchoolTool logo ideas.18:58
th1areplaceafill:  Is the error log actually working now?19:16
replaceafillth1a yes19:16
th1aBecause I know I've made some errors and I don't see them.19:16
replaceafillnot found errors?19:16
th1aIs that persistent after restart?19:16
replaceafillth1a no19:16
replaceafilllocationerrors are app errors19:17
replaceafillnot caught by the error log19:17
replaceafilllike typos, etc19:17
th1aWhy not?19:17
replaceafillhhmm we haven't told it to log them i guess19:18
th1aWhat do you mean by an app error?  As opposed to what?19:21
replaceafilloops sorry i mean, they're are not app errors19:21
replaceafilli meant, we don't log them19:21
replaceafillwe don't expect them to be raised19:21
replaceafillthey shouldn't happen19:21
replaceafillit's not like forbidden19:22
replaceafillbut that's just my 2 cents :)19:22
th1aI don't understand why we wouldn't log all errors there.19:23
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replaceafillcheck it out:19:24
replaceafilli added LocationError explicitly to our handled excpetions list19:25
replaceafillnow they're recorded19:25
replaceafill(unless we mark it as ignored)19:25
th1aOh... does it only log HANDLED exceptions?19:25
th1aWhy don't we log all of them?19:25
replaceafillthe one we set in a vocabulary called.... ignored_exceptions :/19:25
replaceafillgood question19:26
replaceafillwhen i started to work on the errors view i was expecting that behaviour19:26
replaceafill(log it all)19:26
th1aI believe everyone using it does.19:26
replaceafillth1a i stand corrected, location errors are logged19:41
replaceafilleven without having them in the ignore list19:42
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replaceafilleven typos are caught!!!19:45
th1aSo it is just that they aren't persistent?19:54
replaceafillit seems like they're stored as a module attribute19:54
replaceafillwhen you stop the server they're gone19:54
replaceafillbtw, i added the layer filtering to the report overview page19:54
replaceafilldon't forget the XXX XXX XXX ;)19:55
th1agetting there19:55
replaceafillcan i change "Export Person as XML" just to "Export as XML"?19:56
aelknerok, th1a, still not feeling so hot, but let's talk report sheets20:01
th1afinishing lunch...20:02
aelknershould the entry point go there?20:05
aelknerit's a manager view after all20:05
th1aI would say the templates are under "customize" and the deployed sheets are under year.20:06
aelknerby under year you mean when viewing a year?20:06
th1aUnder the tab.20:06
th1aWith the rest of the stuff.20:07
aelknerreplaceafill, is that view pluggable?20:07
aelkneri mean, adding to the customize menu is no problem20:07
aelknerah, how?20:08
aelkneris there a manager that i should register against?20:08
aelknerah, good20:08
replaceafillfor example20:09
replaceafilland look for the manage-courses-overview viewlet in course20:10
aelknerth1a, as for the report sheet templates view, what columns should the table have?20:10
aelkneras jelkner:jelkner show the regular worksheets20:10
aelknerbut we don't need to reorder20:10
aelknerand do we need to hide?20:11
th1aAre you asking if it should look like that?20:12
aelknerjust giving you the link for reference20:12
th1aI'm fiddling around getting my old instance started.20:12
aelknerin the old skin, we actually only allows deleting20:13
th1aIsn't the order set at the user level?20:13
aelknerthe order is determined by the order it was deployed20:14
aelknerotherwise, the oder of the tempaltes is irrelevant20:14
th1aWhat determines the relationship to the worksheets?20:14
aelknerthey are only templates, not yet deployed anywhere20:14
th1aThese conversations would go much quicker if you'd point me to the old views.20:14
aelknerreplaceafill, we need a old skin link, so you have ti running?20:15
aelkneri mean do you have it running?20:15
th1aOK, mine is finally up.20:16
th1aIt takes forever to start up now for some reason.20:16
aelknerit may be a cataloging issue20:16
aelknertry stopping it and starting again20:16
th1aMy pc is getting old.20:16
aelknerdoes it still take a long time20:16
aelknerif not, it would be because the other time it was rebuilding the catalog20:17
th1aThis should be pretty straightforward at this point.20:19
aelknerhow about two columns, title and delete20:19
aelknerwith red delete buttons20:19
th1aFor http://localhost:7080/schooltool.gradebook/templates/ReportWorksheet ?20:20
th1aYeah, that seems fine.20:20
aelknerok, now for the one you just mentioned20:21
aelknerit has an explanation section20:21
th1aWe just need to settle on formatting for those (which is not happening right now).20:21
th1aJust make sure they're p's.20:21
aelknerand h3 for Activities of Sheet Name20:22
aelknerthen a table again with title and delete columns20:22
th1aAt this point you should know this better than I do.20:22
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th1aI'm sorry I'm being cranky but thinking about it without doing seems a lot harder than just doing it.20:23
aelknernp, i'll follow my instincts, i think the pattern has been pretty well laid out20:24
aelknerjust wanted to give you the chance to insert any suggestions20:24
th1aI think it will all make a lot more sense with the new year organization.20:24
th1aWe'll have to fiddle a little with year vs. term, but they should both be managed now from a single page in the year.20:25
th1aBut let's get to that point first.20:25
aelknerok, sounds like a plan20:25
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th1areplaceafill:  XXX XXX XXX = A single .xls spreadsheet containing the basic structure of the school, including students, years, terms, courses, groups and timetables.  Can be modified and re-imported.21:12
th1areplaceafill:  I'm wondering what it would look like if we'd move explanatory text to the empty space at the right.21:15
replaceafillth1a updated
replaceafillclick on Export as XML21:43
replaceafillth1a same for
replaceafillclick on Export as XLS22:14
th1aThat looks pretty good.  If a little off-center.22:18
replaceafillyeah, i need to fix that min-height on dialogs22:19
replaceafillbeautiful dialog implementation yvl :)22:23
replaceafillth1a 'Export as XLS'22:23
th1aCan you add the title, filetype and description to that?22:30
replaceafillwe have the title of the report link in the dialog title22:31
th1aDescription then.22:32
th1aHow hard would it be to rough out a prototype right sidebar to see how it looks?22:33
th1a(in the roughest possible way)22:33
replaceafillwe used to have it :D22:34
replaceafilli can check bzr history ;)22:34
replaceafillth1a in which view do you want the sidebar?22:42
replaceafilli mean, to look at initially22:42
th1aIn the report overview give the first two columns more room.22:47
th1aTwo times bigger and three times bigger?22:49
th1aThat's too much I guess.22:52
th1aToo much in category.22:53
th1aAnd title.22:53
replaceafilland vertical-align: middle?22:55
th1aThat's good as is I think.22:55
replaceafillok, removing the middle22:56
replaceafillmiddle removed22:56
th1aI don't know about the vertical-align.22:56
replaceafilldid you see the middle effect?22:57
replaceafillah ok22:57
th1aI don't have a strong opinion.22:57
replaceafillare the widths ok?22:58
replaceafillk, will push my changes to trunk and then i'll add the right sidebar23:00
replaceafillsorry for the delay, i ate my lunch first :)23:35
th1aso... move the text over there23:36
replaceafilltoo much text...23:40
th1aI was thinking -- this is probably a bad idea --23:43
th1aof making it alpha fade out after an inch or so unless you click.23:44
replaceafillyou don't like a non-modal dialog with instructions?23:45
replaceafilllike the journal legend...23:45
th1anobody will use it23:45
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th1aHave you EVER clicked help on a web page?23:45
replaceafillwhat about an instructions accordion23:46
replaceafillon top of the form?23:46
th1aWell, this one is excessively long, particularly compared to the size of the content area.23:46
th1aI'm not convinced this doesn't work as is.23:47
th1a(in terms of layout)23:47
th1aLets look at another.23:47
th1aPut "A score system is a 3 scale used for assessment, such as a grading scale or rubric scale."23:49
th1aMake "What is This?" the header.23:49
replaceafillmake sure to refresh23:55
replaceafilli made some changes to the css23:55
replaceafillit looks kind of tight because i reduced the margins between the three parts23:55
th1aAre the three sidebars the same size?23:56
replaceafill144px each23:57
th1aThat seems doable to me.23:57
th1aThis would only be on uncommonly used pages.23:57
th1aI think it is better than putting it above.23:57
replaceafillin this case i like it :)23:58
th1aJulia typed the 3 that description, btw, I think.23:58
th1aShe's helping me.23:58
replaceafilli was trying to understand the "3" :D23:58
th1aI could limit the descriptions to fit which is probably better anyhow.23:59
th1aLet's show the rest of the guys tomorrow.23:59

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