IRC log of #schooltool for Thursday, 2011-08-04

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th1ayvl: ayt?15:47
yvlhey th1a15:47
th1aDo you remember what the name of that spreadsheet-based SIS type thing is that compares itself to SchoolTool?15:48
yvlsorry, no15:51
yvlmaybe you meant this, th1a
th1aAh... No.  It is literally a bunch of spreadsheets.15:54
th1aSome guy wrote in... Senegal?15:54
th1aThe advantage is a bunch of spreadsheets is simpler than, say, a webserver.15:55
th1a(up to a point)15:55
yvlsorry, can't recall that15:55
yvlby the way15:56
yvlcalendar events + booking is up and running, though ugly and not skinned15:56
yvland by up and running I mean I haven't committed that yet15:56
yvloh boy16:28
* yvl just now realised that the invitation to check out basecamp some days ago was not spam16:29
th1ayvl:  I think everyone had that reaction.18:32
th1aHm.... we could use this:
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replaceafillth1a zyt?18:47
th1aI am here, replaceafill.18:47
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replaceafilldid you see the +/- buttons?18:47
th1aI'm happy with them.  Are you?18:48
replaceafillkind of :)18:48
replaceafillbtw, the gradebook javascript doesnt work in firefox 5 :(18:49
replaceafilli was looking at our work yesterday in natty18:49
th1aWhich javascript?18:49
replaceafillthe gradebook overview template has some javascript in it18:49
replaceafillfirefox 5 in natty finds and error in two window property assignments18:50
replaceafilland then nothing works, the +/- buttons, cursor navigation18:50
th1aIs it just a bug?18:50
replaceafill      window.onload = onLoadHandler;18:51
replaceafill      window.onunload = checkChanges;18:51
replaceafilli guess the bug is that they're set in the body of the doc18:51
replaceafilli'll tell aelkner18:51
replaceafillbut it's difficult to test if you don't have ff 5 :(18:51
th1aI wouldn't rate that a frowny face.18:51
replaceafillah, also, i wonder how are we going to handle multiple worksheet tabs18:53
replaceafilli that ^ view, i added some css for the tertiary nav18:53
replaceafillthat makes it vertically scrollable18:54
replaceafillmaybe we need to make it horizontally scrollable?18:55
th1aI guess we could make it horizontally scrollable.18:55
th1aIt doesn't have to be pretty.  You should never see it.18:55
replaceafillkk, i'll look into that18:56
replaceafillaelkner ping18:56
aelknerreplaceafill, hey19:19
replaceafillhey aelkner, i'm ready to merge my changes19:19
replaceafillhave you pushed your latest changes  to trunk?19:20
aelknerdid you see mine19:20
aelkneryou should merge with them19:20
aelknerthen merge trunk back with your branch19:20
replaceafillk, will do19:20
aelkneri didn't have to change much of the template19:20
aelknerjust had to add the popup menu div19:20
replaceafillyes i saw19:20
aelknerso it should be easy to slot in there19:20
aelknerwhen you've pushed to trunk, i'll be able to merge back to my branch19:21
aelknerand then we'll be back in sync19:21
aelknerin other words, please ping me when you pushed19:22
aelknerbtw, how much more work do you think you have to do on the grid?19:22
aelknerisn't there a lot of things that we don't know to do until the Schwa people report?19:23
aelkneralso, when you finish and move onto the journal, are you bringing your style choices over via clone19:23
th1aNo... they're only doing some graphic design work.19:23
aelkneri thought that's what you guys are working on?19:24
th1aWhat color the lines should be, what weight, background color, padding, etc.19:24
th1areplaceafill did a little.19:24
aelkneroh, no padding, positioning stuff19:24
th1aI mean, it was more to get rid of the input widgets.19:24
aelknerget rid of?19:24
th1aBut we're not really going beyond that.19:24
th1aHide them, or whatever.19:24
aelkneri didn't know we were hiding input widgets, so i'm still confused19:25
th1aNot make them look like 256 little boxes.19:25
th1aIt is already done aelkner.19:25
th1aLike the journal.19:25
aelknerwhat about this font size stuff you guys were talking about yesterday?19:25
aelknerwhere is that going?19:25
aelkneri noticed the fint is really small now19:26
replaceafillaelkner changes pushed19:26
aelknerreplaceafill, what about my questions?19:26
aelknerwhat is up?19:26
replaceafillabout the font size?19:27
aelknerfor one thing19:27
replaceafillit would allow the user to see the whole class easily19:27
th1aIt is smaller and adjustable.19:28
aelkneradjustable where?19:28
replaceafillaelkner update your instance19:28
th1aatm down by save.19:28
th1areplaceafill:  Is that persistent yet?19:28
replaceafillth1a no, it's not a preferences yet19:28
th1aJust wondering.19:30
replaceafillaelkner regarding the journal, yes i was thinking of cloning the template and make the necessary adjustments19:32
replaceafillsince the "activities" are different, etc19:32
aelknerso we are going to have divergent css for our grids?19:32
aelknerwhy does one exception case lead to cloning the whole thing?19:33
replaceafilli hope not much, but probably19:33
aelkneri just don't get it19:33
aelknerand whenever, god knows when in the future, someone needs to change something19:33
aelknerthey will, of course, not remember to do it in both (three or four) places19:33
aelknerwhy, oh why, oh why19:34
replaceafillcan you give me a view with the same API for gradebook and journal?19:34
aelkneri thought we were changing the gradebook to look more like the journal19:34
aelknerit makes sense to give the user only one set of expectations19:35
aelknerso i figured you guys were working on a css design that is the same anywhere19:35
aelknerwith minor exceptions, of course19:35
replaceafillthat's what i'm trying to do aelkner...19:35
aelknerright, so how does one desire cloning?19:36
replaceafilldo we need all the gradebook js in the journal?19:36
aelknerit's easy to avoid19:36
replaceafillcan you remove that from the gradebook view?19:36
aelknerwe need a set of css and js that is gradebook and journal independent19:36
replaceafillok, start by removing the gradebook specific parts from the gradebook js19:37
aelkner\we can do whatever we want to do in the gradebook view19:37
aelknerthe js there is really old and could use a rewrite19:37
replaceafillbtw, did you read my comment about firefox 5?19:37
replaceafilltwo window property assignments fail19:37
aelkneri missed that one, when was that?19:37
replaceafill     window.onload = onLoadHandler;19:38
replaceafill      window.onunload = checkChanges;19:38
aelknerwhere is that from?19:38
replaceafillgradebook view19:38
aelknerah, yes, see, a chance to upgrade that19:38
aelknerif we are dong something new in the journal, we should keep in mind how the gradebook is going to work19:38
aelknerbut, you're also saying firefos 5 doesn't like that js at present, right?19:39
replaceafilland all the js stop working19:39
replaceafilllike cursor navigation19:39
aelknerwell, the new jquery stuff we've been adding looks a lot cleaner than that old js19:39
aelknerand i bet it works better, too19:40
aelknerwe should just rewrite navigation and use it in both grids19:40
aelknerhave you looked at the journal's js lately, i haven't19:40
replaceafilli like it better :)19:41
aelknerhow does it navigate?19:41
aelknersome $ command, right?19:41
th1aPlease feel free to move improvements from journal to gradebook.19:41
aelknerth1a, i figured you'd go for that19:41
aelknerwe should have something good that works in any grd we make19:41
aelknerreplaceafill, can you point me quickly to the journal's navigation js?19:42
th1aUsing common CSS and JS should be relatively straightforward.19:42
th1aAnd the main priority here.19:42
replaceafilllook for keydown and keypress19:43
aelknercurious, there's a getElementsByTagName call there19:47
aelknernot very jquery :)19:47
th1aOn the other hand, now is not the time for a giant refactoring of Zope plumbing.19:47
th1aWe can do that later.19:48
aelknerwell, the fact is that making the two grids work the same is going to take some investment either way19:49
aelknerperhaps too much at first19:49
aelkneri'm gong to have to back off of my cloning objection and hope for a refactor sprint some day...19:49
aelknercause i know where the discussion of cloning leads, and you mentioned refactoring first :)19:50
aelkneranyway, replaceafill, we could refactor gradebook js to work more lke the journal19:51
aelknerthat's if the journal js also works in firefox 5, have you checked?19:51
aelknerso how o you know it would?19:51
replaceafilli dont, i have to test19:52
replaceafillbut i dont see any window assignment in the journal ;)19:52
aelknerit uses $(document)19:53
aelknerthat would probably work better19:53
replaceafillthat's standard jquery19:53
aelknerbut anyway, i'd like us to get to a point soon where we are working on different parts of the codebase19:54
aelknerth1a, how soon can we devide the tasks up that way?19:54
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th1aWell... what are you working on now, aelkner?19:54
replaceafilli dont understand why aelkner wants me out of the gradebook...19:54
aelkneri've been working around the edges of what replaceafill is doing, adding old skin views to flourish19:54
aelknerPreferences and Category Weights need some css love19:55
* replaceafill adds category weigths to his TODO19:55
aelkneri thought replaceafill could look at that real quick before moving on19:55
aelknerbut to my point about working on different parts of the codebase19:55
aelknerth1a, what's your plan there19:55
aelkneri can work on anything you want me to,19:56
aelkneri just don't need to be tiptoeing around another developer19:56
replaceafillso we're two plugins away :D19:56
aelkneri had thought th1a wanted me working on the gradebook19:57
replaceafillsorry, i was kidding19:57
th1aI'd really you rather keep on working on the gradebook.19:57
aelkneryes, there's lots to do there19:57
aelknerso replaceafill could work on the journal perhaps?19:57
aelknerand anything he learns there about js and css could be applied later to ghte gradebook19:58
th1aWhat is replaceafill doing now?19:58
replaceafillth1a i'm merging some of my pending trunk changes19:58
replaceafillsections, /settings and /manage19:58
th1aaelkner, atm you're ready to start a new task?19:58
aelknerdefinitely, and if you want to do more things with the gradebook grid, like adding popup menus...19:59
replaceafilli can stay away from the gradebook for a while19:59
aelknerreplaceafill, i do need you to style those two views a mentioned19:59
replaceafilland do the pending css work there until aelkner is really finished20:00
aelkneri'm finished getting the views to work20:00
aelknerbut the templates and css could use a little love20:00
th1apreferences is going away.20:00
aelknerok, let's just keep it as is for now for our use20:01
aelkneras a way of testing what we add as replacement20:01
aelknerwhat about the category weights?20:01
th1aSo add menus to name (sort action), total and ave.20:01
th1aWe're stuck with category weights.20:02
aelknerso we just need it to be styled and that's it20:02
th1aAlso, add title (hints) to the worksheet tabs.20:02
th1aProbably aelkner.20:02
aelknerth1a, please hold off on little tasks here just yet20:02
aelknerwe were discussing what replaceafill could do before moving on20:03
aelknerso we don't need to do anything to preferences but keep it therer20:03
aelknerwe need the weights to be styled20:03
aelknerreplaceafill, are you done with the grid?20:03
replaceafillfor now yes20:03
th1aaelkner:  I'll worry about what replaceafill is doing.20:03
replaceafillaelkner the views in the gradebook work right20:04
aelknerplease don't make this a power struggle, i'm just trying to get my work done20:04
replaceafilleven if they're look ugly20:04
aelknerdancing around another developer is wasting my time20:04
aelknerso i'm trying to fix that20:04
th1aaelkner, you're wasting time right now.20:04
aelknerthanks, that helps20:05
replaceafillaelkner can you answer my question?20:05
aelknerreplaceafill, yes20:05
replaceafillso, they are good for us to test stuff, even if they're not pretty yet20:05
replaceafilli propose for you to finish working on the gradebook20:06
replaceafilland i'll come at the end to fix the css20:06
aelknerok, perfect20:06
th1aI don't think anything else was even on the table.20:06
aelknerok, so getting back to the list of tasks20:07
aelkneryou were saying, get rid of the (sort) under Name20:07
aelknerand make Name a link with popup menu20:08
aelknercould you list the menu items here now?20:08
th1aTotal and Ave:20:08
th1aI guess we're saying "Sort by"?20:08
aelknerthat's the Name menu, two sorts?20:09
th1aDo we only do descending?20:09
aelknersorting works as follows:20:09
aelknerthe first time the user clicks, it's ascending20:09
aelknerthen the next time, it reverses and so on20:09
aelknerare you saying above that you want the Name menu to just have a Sort by action20:10
aelknerand the Total and Ave should be menus with the same?20:10
th1aWell, I'm pausing in the discussion of Total and Ave. to think about sorting.20:10
th1aOK, let's leave it sort by.20:11
aelknerok, we can separate that out20:11
th1aKeep it as is.20:11
aelknerso just Sort by for Name20:11
th1aTotal and Ave20:11
th1aSort by20:11
aelknerok, i was thinking about the iding columns last night20:11
th1aCan we display check boxes in the menus?20:11
th1aI'm thinking under Total and Ave:20:12
th1aShow Total20:12
aelkneryou, too :)20:12
th1aShow Ave20:12
aelknerthat's what i was thinking20:12
th1aOK.  Do that.20:12
aelknerbut we would want a new menu for that20:12
aelknerit would be weird to add those to the Name menu, wouldn't it?20:13
th1aYes, those would be the menus for total and ave.20:13
th1aI guess you need to be able to do it from name if neither is there.20:13
aelkneryou see, the totoal and ave heading could be menus themselves20:13
aelknerwith the option to change the label and score system20:14
th1aYes, that is what I was thinking aelkner.20:14
aelknerbut the showing and hiding of the columns needs to be a separate menu20:14
th1aPut those in Name.20:14
aelknerok, for now at least, right?20:15
th1aWe may just jam those in Worksheets as well just for extra findability.20:15
aelknerok, so the Total or Ave menu items?20:15
aelkneryou can pick the menu item workding20:16
aelknerthe items would lead to modal dialogs, right?20:16
aelknerthat was two questions, actually20:16
th1aI guess so, yes.20:17
th1aI don't know that we need to let the user change the label.20:18
th1aChange "Ave." ?20:18
aelknerwhy did we add that feature in the first place?20:18
aelkneri think jelkner liked it even though it wasn't his request20:19
aelknerbut i'm curious why you wanted it before and not now20:19
th1aIt is marginal either way.20:19
th1aI don't think it needs its own menu item and dialog.20:20
th1aAnd I don't think it needs to complexify the score system dialog.20:20
aelkneri thought it would be it's own dialog20:20
aelknershouldn't we think of changing these attributes as a simple one item modal dialog situation?20:21
th1aI mean, look, a lot of those decisions we made about the gradebook when we sat down here were kind of arbitrary.20:21
th1aIt is just a toss up.20:21
aelkneri think you were saying back a couple of months that you would like more what launchpad has20:21
aelknera simple popup modal to change an attribute20:22
aelknerwe could do that simply for each attribtue, the score system and the label20:22
aelknerdo you in fact still think these little popup modals is the way to go?20:22
th1aI'm just saying that giving your own name to "Ave." is kinda pointless.20:23
th1aI don't even know what you would change it to.20:23
th1aThere are all kinds of words in the interface that someone hypothetically might like to change.20:23
aelkneri don't have a strong opinion on that one, and if noone complains about it being pulled as a feature, then there's no issue20:24
aelknerand i agree with your point about limited application of a notion20:24
aelknerso we can get rid of that20:24
aelknerso just the socre system change then?20:25
th1aThat's the idea, aelkner.20:26
aelknerok, i want you to look at something20:26
aelknerclick on a student and select the Score menu item20:28
aelkneri made a flourish version of that view, but the title, subtitle, and form legend choices are not right20:28
aelknerth1a, could you please suggest those three choices?20:29
th1aWhat's the subtitle made of?20:29
aelkneri put the student name there since it needed to be somewhere, but that's your call20:29
aelknerThe title could be Grade instead of Gradebook20:30
aelknerand the subtitle, the student title only?20:30
aelknerso it wold say in big font 'Grade Doe, John'20:30
aelknerand the legend has to not be too long because of the * hint to the right20:32
th1aOh, so "Grade Six, Student" is a name?20:33
aelknerno, the way it is is not what i was just suggesting20:34
aelkneryou can tell by the text color what the title and subtitle are20:34
th1aRight now it is "Gradebook: Grade $STUDENT"20:34
aelknerlast night, i was thinking Gradebook, sub-thought, Grade Student name20:35
aelknerbut perhaps GRADE: $STUDENT?20:35
aelknerthe section name is missing, btw20:35
th1aScore: $STUDENT20:35
th1abut $STUDENT should be First Last.20:35
aelkneryes, SCORE: $STUDENT20:35
aelknerabout the section, right now even the gradebook itself only mentions it to the left20:36
th1aWe don't have the breadcrumbs in.20:36
aelknerbut i understand that's why you wanted it at the top20:36
aelknerit's the first thing the user will find20:36
aelknerbut in the case of grading the student, we don't have a left sidebar20:37
aelknerit's like a modal form in a way20:37
aelknerit has cancel anytime the user want to get back20:37
th1aWe should restrict the length of the activity label.20:38
th1a(in the form)20:38
th1a(that is, the activity add/edit form)20:45
aelknerreplaceafill, question, why is 0 such a small font in the gradebook?20:47
th1aSo you can see more stuff.20:47
aelknerthe - sign does that20:47
aelknerwe also have scroll to the right20:48
th1aIt is not cast in stone, aelkner.20:48
aelknerwhat i'm saying is, i don;t think it's right to assume the user wants small text20:48
aelkneri understand20:48
th1aWe'll see.20:48
aelkneri'm just suggesting a little chisling20:48
aelknerhow do you spell that?20:48
aelknerah, yes, you were talking about making it persisten before20:50
aelknerthat would have to be automatically store in the person annotations20:51
aelknerwhich is only possible if we use ajax20:51
aelknerright now it just changes the dom in place with no trasaction to server20:51
th1aI'll make that replaceafill's problem.20:51
aelknerhey, i could do ajax, too, you know20:51
th1aI know.20:52
aelkneri haven't done one yet myself, but we already have some good  examples20:52
aelkneri was hoping you would assume i could do whatever we need to do with js and css in the gradebook20:53
aelknereven if replaceafill has the global view of divs and classes20:53
aelknerand the whole style discussion he has had with you over the months20:53
aelknerbut by now, i can add anything you wan to the gradebook20:53
th1aIt is just that replaceafill started that particular thing.20:54
aelknerok, well i have things to do for now, a couple of menus, a modal dialog20:55
th1aWe don't have a flourished worksheet view at all yet, right?20:55
aelkneryou're thinking about manage worksheets20:56
aelknerum, i was hoping we could continue the spirit you started20:56
aelknercouldn't we handle everything like we've been doing20:56
aelknerwe don't have a activities view anymore20:56
th1aI don't see how we get rid of it without crufting up the tertiary navigation.20:57
aelkneryeah, that20:57
aelknerdo we have to rule it out?20:57
aelknerit's done in calc20:57
th1aWhat do we need...20:57
th1areordering, hiding, unhiding?20:57
th1aI guess reordering could be menu driven.20:58
aelknerhiding, unhding, tricky20:58
aelkneri see why you wanted a new view20:58
aelknerkind of like the activate schoolyears20:58
aelknerreoder demo fields20:58
aelknerwasn't that it?20:58
th1aAlso, the worksheets have an action on click right now (open).20:59
aelknerah, but hiding and unhind needed to be two views20:59
th1aI think it is a little crufty for all you get out of it.20:59
aelknerthe tertiary nav could have two actions, the link and a button, small like +20:59
aelknerbut also, i get needing the separate ciews21:00
th1aI don't think you win enough for the visual clutter.21:00
aelknerbut get this, we had separate hide AND unhide views21:00
th1aThat seems excessive.21:00
aelknerbecause the user doesn't want o see the hidden worksheets once they hide them21:01
aelknerunless they made a mistake21:01
aelknerthat's why we needed the two separate views21:01
th1aWell... that may have been a bit overzealous.21:01
aelknerthe user needed to explicitly request the unhidden views21:01
aelknerlike asking for tapes out of iron mountain21:01
th1aYou should only rarely need to look at the worksheet view.21:01
aelknerworksheets, plural, you mean, right?21:02
aelknerthe worksheet view IS the gradebook21:03
aelkneri can't think of another way to channel the user to hidden worksheets without a separate view21:03
th1aYes, worksheets.21:04
aelknerbut one thing we could do for sure, we could start the tertiaery nav with a single button21:04
aelknerwhat is you thought about getting the user to hidden worksheets without cluttering their world with them on a regular basis?21:05
aelknerto the left21:05
aelknerbut i don't have anything in mind yet for the contents of a menu on the left like that21:06
th1aThere will be a worksheets link in the sidebar.21:06
aelknerjust the idea for the menu21:06
th1aWhen you need to manage, reorder, hide, unhide, you go there.21:06
aelknerok, so let's talk about the contents of the worksheets view21:07
aelknera table, of course21:07
th1aWhat properties do worksheets have?21:07
aelknerbut we could have a column for a button of come sort21:07
aelknersome sort21:07
aelkneroh, and hidden21:08
aelknerthat's a property21:08
aelknerbut do we want the user to see every hidden worksheet each time they go there?21:08
th1aYou should only have to go there rarely.21:09
th1aBasically to hide and unhide!21:09
th1aSo yes, you can just sort the hidden ones to the bottom.21:09
th1aYes, reorder too.21:09
aelkneryes, sorted to the bottom, good21:09
th1acheckbox for hide, and then however you want to handle the reordering.21:10
aelknerhidden ones could have a green +, and unhidden ones a red -21:10
replaceafillare we using dropdowns for sorting?21:10
replaceafilllike reorder demos?21:10
th1aJust a checkbox for "Hidden"21:10
aelknerok, so that's based on an old view which this would not be, but yes, dropdowns with numbers21:11
th1aYeah, that's fine.21:11
replaceafillwhy not set Hide as the last option in the dropdown?21:11
replaceafilland if they hide it, you move it to the bottom21:11
aelknerooh, nice, simpler21:11
aelknerso no checkbox21:12
aelknerbut last option would be hidden in long list of numbers21:12
aelknerhow about this21:12
th1aThat sounds fine.21:12
aelknerinstead of numbers, we just have Move up21:12
aelknerMove down21:12
aelknerwhich would be Unhide in the case of hidden worksheets21:13
aelknerand hidden workseets woldn't have move up or down21:13
aelkneruntil you unhide it, it shouldnt be movable of course21:13
aelknernow that i think of it, perhaps if Hide s first21:14
aelknerthe the numbers21:14
aelknerMove to Position 1?21:14
aelknerMove to Position 221:14
aelknerand so un starting under the first item, Hide21:14
replaceafillaelkner move up and move down means several clicks to move from bottom to top21:14
aelknerreplaceafill, right21:15
aelknera bit hostile21:15
aelknerth1a, so Hide first, followed by the numbers?21:15
th1aI thought "hide" as an option in the ordering list was a good idea.21:15
aelkneryes, that's what i'm saying, but at the top, not the bottom21:16
aelknerbut then i just realized now21:16
aelknerthe way it works with the demo fileds is that the numer is set to what the particular item's list order is21:16
aelknerso, for the 15th worksheet, the dropdown will popup with 15 visible21:17
aelknerand pehaps 13-16 along with it21:17
aelknerso the user needs to scrool to get to Hide21:17
* replaceafill imagines the tertiary nav with 15 worksheets...21:17
aelknerreplaceafill, good point21:17
aelknerwhat's our plan for that?21:17
replaceafillmake it scrollable21:18
replaceafillhorizontally scrollable21:18
replaceafillit's vertical right now :(21:18
aelknerwell, there's no reason we can't make it vertiacally scrollable, like the gradebook is21:19
aelknerhorizontally, i mean21:19
th1aYou can do hiding with checkboxes if that is easier.21:19
th1aThis is not a super important view.21:19
aelknerwell, it wasn't going to be easy, but i can move onto my question about that21:20
aelknerif we use checkboxes, when does the change take effect21:20
aelkneris it onclick, submit?21:20
aelknerthat wouldn't be so bad21:20
aelknerthe reorder works that way21:20
aelkneronchange, submit21:20
aelknerreplaceafill, btw, we don't use css class and jquery for that, we use onchange in the eleent21:21
aelknerhow do you feel about that in general?21:21
replaceafillwe'll fix it one day21:21
aelknershould we always mark any object that has onchange or onclick behavior with class21:22
replaceafillif possible21:22
replaceafillit's a lot less markup21:22
replaceafillgenerated, i mean21:22
aelkneryou mean the element has less markup21:22
replaceafillless traffic for slow networks21:22
replaceafillthe whole view, when rendered21:22
th1aI'm not feeling particularly inspired about this view.21:23
replaceafillbut that matters with long views21:23
replaceafillthis is not21:23
aelkneryeah, we can't even have more than 14 worksheets anyway :)21:23
th1aI would make it consistent with demographics reorder.21:23
replaceafill14 is the limit?!?!?!21:23
aelknerthat was a joke21:25
th1aCan we just shrink the tabs to fit the available space?21:26
th1aI'd be ok with that.21:27
replaceafillth1a hiding overflow?21:29
replaceafilland using titles, like with student names?21:29
th1aIn titles, yes.21:29
replaceafilli'll try21:29
replaceafilland i think this should be general for all tertiary navs21:30
replaceafillalthough i cant imagine 10 school years yet ;)21:30
aelknerth1a, i think you answered my question, the demo reorder submits on change of order dropdown21:31
aelkneri can make it submit on click of hidden? checkbox21:32
aelknerso the table has three columns in this order:21:32
th1aGo ahead.21:32
aelkner1) the order dropdown21:32
aelkner2) the title21:32
aelkner3) the hidden checkbox21:32
aelkneruh, oh, even as i await your agreement on that decision, we forget to discuss worksheet title rename21:34
aelknerah, so the title is a link21:34
th1aYou could use a pencil.21:35
aelknerhow about a ppup menu with Rename as the choice?21:35
replaceafill+1 on the popup option21:35
aelknerclick the title, get the menu, click the choice, get the modal to change the title21:35
replaceafill(since we're shrinking the space of the tab too)21:35
aelkneroh, replaceafill, sorry, you were talking about the tertiary title21:36
aelkneri was thinking in the worksheets view21:36
replaceafilloops, you weren't?21:36
aelknerbut your point is well taken21:36
replaceafillalthought a popup on left click kills the tab21:37
aelkneri was about to say21:37
replaceafillsince you have to make two clicks to get to it21:37
replaceafillso, no :)21:37
aelknerth1a, no to what, and yes to what?21:37
th1aNever mind.21:37
th1aI'd use a pencil.21:37
th1aOnly use popups in the grids at this point.21:38
aelknerah, in the worksheets view21:38
aelknerso, nect to the title21:38
aelknerwhich is merely a span21:38
aelknerthing is, it's a table21:39
aelknerso does the pencil get pushed next to the worksheet title which is of arbitrary length21:39
aelkneror does it have its own column in the table21:39
aelknerso that all the pecils line up?21:39
aelkneror, if the pencil is to the left of the title21:40
aelknerthen it wouldn't need to have its own column21:40
aelknerth1a, what do you think?21:40
th1aGenerally pencils are next to the text.21:40
aelkneri noticed they are to the right of headers of tables21:41
aelknerlike in the School view21:41
aelknerbut in this case we have a column with titles21:41
replaceafilldamn, the cambodia init.d script didnt work :(21:41
aelknershould the pencil line up like a wave next to the varying worksheet title lengths21:41
replaceafill(sorry for interrupting)21:42
aelkneri can't believe i didn't think of the pencil right away21:42
aelknerthat is our new convention21:43
aelknerreplaceafill, so the tertiary needn't change in that case21:43
replaceafillaelkner right21:43
replaceafillth1a it seems like Chandara needs a new report21:43
replaceafillbut it's multischool...21:44
th1aYeah... that's kind of an outside SchoolTool issue.21:44
th1aI'm not exactly sure what he's asking for.21:45
replaceafilli read "we have 2 or 3 or 4 instances, how to get a consolidated student list"21:45
th1aJust a list?21:46
replaceafilli think so, but it's the multischool part the makes me wonder21:47
th1aShould he just combine some exports in a spreadsheet?21:48
replaceafilli'll need to enable the xls export for them21:49
replaceafilland customize it21:49
replaceafillah sorry21:49
replaceafilli read your question wrong21:49
th1aOr just do a CSV.21:49
replaceafilli'll propose that21:49
replaceafilland explain the one school per instance part again :)21:50
th1aaelkner:  You have enough for now?21:50
* th1a goes to lie down for a few minutes.21:52
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aelknerth1a, yes22:34
th1aOK.  Good.22:34
th1areplaceafill:  Are you going to start on the Journal now?22:50
replaceafillth1a yes22:51
th1aCan you get started without me?22:52
replaceafillth1a i think so, i've been looking at how the old view works22:52
replaceafillit's just a matter of adjusting it to the new template22:53
replaceafill(i think)22:53
replaceafilland changing the tertiary navs22:53
replaceafillah! one question only22:53
replaceafillare we going to restrict the possible inputs?22:54
replaceafilllike we do right now22:54
th1aI'd say so.22:54
replaceafillyes, i plan to start on it tomorrow morning22:55
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jelknerGood afternoon th1a, replaceafill, and aelkner!22:56
th1aAh, jelkner, bad timing.22:56
jelknerjust responding to your request22:56
th1aJennifer is going to vote on the new teacher contract and I have to babysit.22:56
jelkneri teach from 8 am to 3 pm22:56
th1aWell, I think replaceafill can walk you through the current gradebook.22:56
th1aI have no special knowledge.22:57
th1aSo yes, replaceafill, could you do that?  See what jelkner thinks.  I'll read the log.22:57
jelknerreplaceafill, what sayth you?22:57
jelknerbtw.  th1a, thank jennifer (and yourself) for getting us to the Save Our Schools Rally22:58
th1aYou're welcome, jelkner.22:58
* th1a out.22:58
jelknerour whole family has been discussing it ever since22:58
replaceafilljelkner how can i help?22:59
jelknerso, mr replaceafill, how can i be of service?22:59
jelknerth1a emailed me this morning asking if i could provide feedback on the gradebook22:59
replaceafilllet me get an url for you22:59
jelknerhold on... i'll forward it to you22:59
replaceafilldo you want an empty instance?23:00
replaceafillor just right to the gradebook view?23:00
jelkneri don't know what i want23:00
jelkneri'm here to serve23:00
jelkneri'll have a lot of detailed feedback once i start using it, of course, but it will be a bit late for release by then23:01
jelkneractually not, mattva01 will be setting up my instance in a few weeks23:01
jelknerand i'll start setting up my classes by the end of this month23:01
replaceafillthe Math section is filled with testing data23:02
jelknerFirst impression... WOW!23:02
th1aI don't have anything super-specific in mind for jelkner, btw.23:02
replaceafillbut the English section is kind of empty23:02
jelknerNice use of space23:02
th1aJust how him around, the new menus, etc.23:02
jelkneri have only one negative thing to say...23:02
jelknerWhere is Zonki?23:02
th1aWe're actually going to have a new logo soon.23:03
jelknerok, another concern23:03
* replaceafill just noticed that /settings and /manage are enabled for the normal user23:04
jelknerjelkner:jelkner can only use the gradebook23:04
jelknerwhy are Application and School showing?23:04
jelkneryou click those and get the "Zap!"23:04
replaceafillApplication = /settings, School = /manage23:04
jelknerYou aren't allowed that23:04
jelkneryes, i understand23:04
replaceafillright, we have to fix those permissions23:04
jelknerbut it feels like a mini electric shock when you click on things23:05
* replaceafill write it in the TODO23:05
jelknerand get "Sorry You Can't Go Here"23:05
jelknerjust don't offer them to me then!23:05
jelknerThe look is positively delightful23:06
replaceafilljelkner if you left click on an activity title you get a popup with actions23:06
replaceafillit needs some styling, but you get the idea :)23:06
replaceafill(i hope)23:06
jelknerhold on...23:06
jelknerand i assume clicking on a student will still show a student view, yes?23:07
jelknerthat isn't working in the demo23:07
jelknerthe grade activity view looks sweet!23:08
replaceafillhhmm something's wrong with the student popup23:08
jelknerthe whole thing has a clean, attractive appearance23:09
replaceafillah! the popup needs some z-index23:09
jelknerif intervention looks this nice23:09
replaceafillthis user tour is really working ;)23:09
jelknerthe hilt institute will love it23:09
jelkneri only wish cando looked like this!23:10
jelknerok, anything else23:10
jelkneryou guys rock23:10
jelknernow i can't wait for school to start, just so i can use this! ;-)23:10
replaceafillwhat do you think of the font size of the gradebook23:10
jelkneranything else?23:11
replaceafillhhmm i can't think of anything else23:11
jelknercall me back any time23:11
replaceafillthanks jelkner23:11
jelkneri'm eager to see the student view23:12
jelknerso maybe next time on that23:12
jelknerthank *you* replaceafill!23:12
replaceafillyou mean home23:12
replaceafillhold on23:12
replaceafillit's a new instance23:13
replaceafilli mean, a different one23:13
jelkneri'm a teacher, i'm looking at my gradebook23:13
jelknerstudents are links23:13
jelkneri click on one23:13
jelknernothing happens23:13
replaceafillyou get a popup right?23:14
replaceafillwith one  Score option23:14
jelknermaybe popups are blocked23:14
jelkneri click23:14
replaceafillwe depend on more javascript now23:15
replaceafillcan you provide the browser and version you're using?23:15
jelknerthe reload icon turns into a red x23:15
jelknerit spins a bit23:15
jelknerthen ... nothing23:15
jelknerfirefox 5.0 on ubuntu nattty23:15
replaceafillare you using natty23:15
jelknerof course i'm using natty23:15
replaceafilli found a problem with natty yesterday23:16
replaceafillnot natty!23:16
replaceafillff 523:16
replaceafilltwo lines are breaking our javascript23:16
* jelkner tries chromium23:16
replaceafilland ff 5 refuses to work23:16
replaceafillchromium should work, although i didnt try it on natty...23:16
jelknerprogress... now i get a traceback23:17
jelkneri click on a student and see a "score" option23:17
jelkneri click on that and traceback23:17
replaceafillah yes, aelkner is working on that23:18
jelknerLocationError: (<schooltool.gradebook.gradebook.StudentGradebook object at 0xc48df6c>, 'layout.css')23:18
replaceafillstill work in progress23:18
jelknerlet's what testing is for, yes?23:18
replaceafillare you interested in the manager views?23:18
replaceafillthey're more complete23:18
jelknercan i use ff 5?23:19
jelknerthis is *soooo* much better than the old UI!23:21
jelknerthe layout of the school view is excellent23:21
replaceafillyou should visit the School tab23:21
jelknerthat's what i mean23:21
jelkneri just did23:21
jelknernow the real test is going to be how quickly th1a can get the ST book updated for this!23:22
jelkneryou all should be proud23:22
jelknerthis is beautiful work23:22
jelknerintervention is still broke, yes?23:23
jelknerok, i will want to test that as soon as you have it ready23:23
jelkneri've got our department agreeing to use it23:23
replaceafillthis is the new section view:
jelkneri'm supposed to teach them during the week of aug. 29 to sept 223:24
jelknerwe will have to talk soon about setting up our instance for this year23:24
jelknerdo you think aug. 29 is possible?23:24
replaceafilli think we're aiming feature freeze next week23:25
jelknerso we may just make it23:25
jelknerok, i need to get back to my other teacher duties...23:26
replaceafillthank you jelkner23:26
jelknerthank you23:26
replaceafilli got like 4 bugs ;)23:26
jelknerlater man23:26
replaceafillbye mr elkner23:26
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