IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2011-07-27

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th1ahi yvl, replaceafill, aelkner, menesis.16:32
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:32
yvlgood morning16:32
th1aI'm a little woozy after trying to make it to the end of what ended up being a 19 inning Pittsburgh Pirates loss last night/morning.16:34
th1ayvl: Why don't you start us off?16:34
yvlactually, not much to say16:35
yvlI got distracted by various things today16:35
yvlso roughly an hour of ST work16:35
yvlsorry, aelkner, but no menu today...16:35
aelknerfor the gradebook, you mean?16:36
aelknerah, ok16:36
aelkneri have other things to do16:37
th1aOK, let's talk about manage for a minute.16:38
th1aI didn't mean put "Manage school years" below the table, but to put "School Years" above the table like a title.16:38
th1a(and for each one)16:39
th1aAnd if that's not bold enough, we can add the pencil.16:39
th1aBecause there is no strong distinction between view/edit in containers.16:39
th1aThat is, there is no "edit" view for containers.16:39
th1aYears and terms will need to be separate tables if they aren't now.16:41
yvlactually, I put only one there now16:41
yvlthe active one16:41
yvlI mean - there's not much use of previous years on a daily basis...16:41
th1aAh. Well, We could show all years and then terms in the active years.16:41
yvlwell, ok16:42
th1aOr just the active year.16:42
th1aThey just need to be separate tables.16:42
th1aAlso, we should probably order these by importance to the user, not... descending scale.16:43
* th1a is slowly remembering what needs to go here.16:43
th1aI mean, users not in the middle.16:43
yvlah, right16:43
th1a(ordering the whole view not time)16:43
th1awe need to add all the things that we changed when you were away, yvl.16:44
th1aSo the stuff you formerly navigated through via year is now accessed here.16:44
yvlwhat do you have in mind?16:44
th1aGroups, courses, sections.16:44
yvlhmm, I missed something16:45
yvlgroup container is in trunk?16:45
yvlsections are in trunk?16:45
replaceafillas /courses, /groups and /sections16:45
yvloh, right16:45
replaceafillwell, i added /sections today :D16:45
replaceafillbtw one comment16:45
replaceafillthese three work if you have school years in place16:45
replaceafilland terms16:46
yvl(I kind of forgot those because I dont use them - because navigation is broken)16:46
yvl(for people who use apache rewrite rulse)16:46
yvl* rules16:46
replaceafillah because of the ?schoolyear_id...16:47
yvlbecause somebody didn't put absolute urls16:47
yvland used '/groups' link directly16:47
yvlor maybe I have a broken rule16:47
yvlth1a, how do you think it would be best to present courses and sections there?16:48
replaceafilland /schoolyears and /terms work for you?16:48
yvlyes, they all work, but there are links that don't16:49
yvlbut nevermind that now16:50
th1aI think we left a few loose ends.16:50
th1aHmmm yes, this is complexifying the page quite a bit.16:50
th1aI guess in all cases there isn't much to say other than how many of each thing there are in the year.16:51
th1aI think we should probably shift this view to use years in tertiary navigation as well.16:53
th1aTo let you access every year fairly easily.16:53
aelkneryes, so that the year is fixed, but easily changable16:53
replaceafilli have a question about past years16:53
replaceafillare we going to let the user change past year data?16:53
th1aI mean, you can still get where you need to go, but it is a little confusing.16:53
th1aThat issue is not on the table right now.16:54
th1aSomeday, no.16:54
replaceafillah, ok16:54
th1aBut it is fairly complicated.16:54
th1aIt makes activation a permanent one-way process.16:54
th1aOr nearly so.16:55
replaceafillin /manage the Term table should link to terms instead of the school year, right?16:55
th1aThe terms year corresponding to the manage year being viewed.16:56
replaceafillth1a correct me if i'm wrong, but you said we were going to use only h1-h3, right?16:56
th1aThat's what's in the UWG.16:56
yvlok, another my bad16:57
yvladded h416:57
replaceafilli changed the "There are none." messages from p to h3, btw16:57
replaceafillwe were using p's somewhere and h3's in some other places16:58
menesisbut it is not a heading. an informative sentence16:59
th1amenesis is right, technically.16:59
replaceafillwell, we're even using h3 for links :D16:59
yvlthere are no sentences in UWG!16:59
th1aI don't remember the p's looking bad.16:59
th1aThere are no sentences, only paragraphs.17:00
th1aSo I guess I agree with menesis.17:01
replaceafillok, will make the "There are none" messages p's again :)17:01
th1aSo yvl, I guess you have plenty on your plate now.17:02
aelkneryvl, are you going to deal with the gradebook menu issue tomorrow?17:03
yvlI'm a little bit unclear on what to do with courses/sections on manage17:03
yvlyes, aelkner17:03
aelknercool, thanks17:03
yvlpersonally I would just put links in School sidebar box17:03
th1aThe point is kind of that we could just put the links in the sidebar to start with and leave the main content area blank.17:04
th1aBut SOMETHING has to go there.17:04
* aelkner is back in 5 minutes...17:04
yvlbut maybe not everything?17:04
yvland if we're adding the tertiary year navigation,17:05
th1aWell... we have all that space.17:05
yvlwe're basically doing not manage, but schoolyears container17:05
th1aDo not think that thought.17:05
th1aI mean, yes, we kind of are.17:06
yvlI mean - contents will be very close17:06
yvland I'm somewhat dubious about what... say resource demographics links would mean then17:07
yvlthey are not per-year17:07
th1aWe just don't want the user to have to maintain that.17:07
th1aThat's why they should go in the sidebar.17:07
th1aThat is,17:07
th1awe don't want the user to have to maintain the model of a hierarchy of years containing certain stuff.17:07
* aelkner is back17:08
yvlI understand that th1a17:08
yvlit's just that tertiary year navigation seems...17:09
yvlwhat's the word..17:09
th1aI can live with that sin.17:09
yvlfor the manage page17:09
yvlcan I ask you to do those changes with replaceafill17:09
yvlI don't get the reason behind your choices17:10
yvland this is more of a17:10
yvlput this here17:10
yvlmove that there17:10
replaceafillthanks! ;)17:10
yvlif we were on the same timezone, I would gladly do that ;)17:10
th1aYou got me started yvl.17:10
th1aI was stuck.17:10
yvlwell thanks :)17:11
th1aBut yes, replaceafill and I can work on it.17:11
yvlapologies if I did sound rude17:11
th1aSo let's move on, no problem.17:11
th1aI'm constantly rude, ask aelkner.17:11
th1aLets jump to replaceafill.17:11
replaceafilli added the /sections view17:12
replaceafilland add/edit forms for sections17:12
replaceafillthey're unstable, because17:12
replaceafillthey dont work with other years than the active one :(17:12
replaceafillwill fix that17:12
replaceafilli also fixed the term validator issue17:13
replaceafilland made some changes to the TableContainerView17:13
replaceafillthat allowed me to remove some unnecessary code17:13
th1aThe sort widgets don't work yet?17:13
replaceafillth1a in /sections?17:14
replaceafillit's sorting by term17:14
replaceafilland then by title17:14
th1aOh, I was clicking on the arrows.17:14
replaceafillah no, you have to click the header :)17:15
replaceafilli had a question about the edit form17:15
replaceafillfor example17:15
th1aWe should probably address that widget at some point.17:15
replaceafillthe edit form presents an extra fieldset for linking17:16
replaceafilldo we want to keep that?17:16
aelknerguys, should be have terms be sub-heading to separate the sorting from the courses?17:16
th1aIs that made obselete by the "section_linkage" view?17:16
aelkneri mean, as it is the term, course sorting is not visually easy to follow17:17
aelknerwhat do you think?17:17
th1aNot necessarily.17:17
aelknerthat way, the term need not even be a column17:18
th1aYou might want to sort them different ways.17:18
aelknerwe could offer two different views17:18
th1aSorting by term would often be not important.17:18
aelknerone by term, the other by course17:18
th1aI think it is fine.17:18
aelknerok, never mind17:18
th1aYou can filter and sort several ways.17:18
replaceafillth1a i'll look if the section_linkage functionality allows us to remove the second fieldset17:19
th1areplaceafill: OK.17:19
replaceafilli still need to work on the other views for section17:19
th1aOK.  So maybe we can do the School view tomorrow?17:20
replaceafillah sure17:20
th1aI'll set aside some time in the morning.17:20
replaceafilland we need to style the term add form17:20
replaceafill(and edit maybe)17:20
replaceafilli'd like your help there17:20
th1aOK. tomorrow is replaceafill day for me.17:20
th1aThanks replaceafill.17:20
aelknerok, so i added the add views for worksheet, linked activity and linked column17:21
aelknersign in as jelkner/jelkner with this url:17:21
aelkneryvl, you will be creating another portion of the sidebar tomorrow17:22
th1aWe're going to have to work on the navigation a bit.17:22
aelknerand put a form there for the term, section change17:22
aelkneryvl, what is it that you are doing tomorrow?17:23
aelknerth1a, note that the add views all return to the gradebook17:23
aelknerso that part of the navigation is in order17:23
th1aWe might switch them to modals.17:24
aelknernow, we have other things like preferences17:24
aelknerreplaceafill, do you have an instance of the old skin running?17:24
replaceafillbut no data i think aelkner17:24
replaceafillthat ok?17:24
aelkneroh, never mind17:24
aelkneranyway, th1a, i'm guessing you were planning on making it simpler this time around17:25
aelknerso that there is no need for something like 'Manage Worksheet'17:25
aelknerthe way i did it so far, you can add the worksheet right from the gradebook17:25
th1aYes, that's good.17:26
aelknerand if we allow the user to edit worksheet titles with a modal17:26
aelknerand even activities17:26
aelknerthen we don't need to worry about leaving the gradebook to do anything17:26
aelknerwhat about preferences?17:27
aelknerdo we need a new linkset called Customize?17:27
th1aWe've been putting Preferences under...17:27
aelknerlinksets do take up room, so we need to be careful17:27
aelkneryvl, ayt?17:28
aelknerwhat are you going to be adding tomorrow?17:28
aelknera new sidebar that is not a linkset, right?17:28
yvlprobably a simple menu17:28
aelknerbut on the left, right?17:28
th1aA menu that doesn't break the sidebar.17:29
yvland then probably put the switching of terms there to see how that looks17:29
th1a1) when active it needs to float above the sidebar17:29
th1a2) when something has been selected it can't be too big for the sidebar.17:30
th1aActually, can we do that with a regular menu?17:30
th1aDid I jump ahead of myself?17:30
yvlumm, regular menu?17:30
th1aI think I confused the issue yesterday.17:30
aelknerso let's unconfuse it17:31
aelknerwhat do we want, and where?17:31
th1aI think a regular menu will do as long as its width is constrained to fit in the sidebar.17:31
th1aI'm ok with:17:31
aelknerwhat is a regular menu?17:31
th1aLike there is now.17:32
th1aFor term.17:32
th1aJust move that to the sidebar,17:32
th1amake Term a header,17:32
th1aput the menu under it.17:32
aelkneryou mean the dropdown, right?17:32
th1aMaybe we should shrink the font a point or two.17:32
th1aThe main point is getting it to fit.17:32
aelknerwe can truncate the term and section titles in the dropdowns to prevent clipping17:33
aelkneror overflow, i mean17:33
aelknerdo clip, don't overflow?17:33
replaceafill-1 on truncate17:33
replaceafillbut that's just me :)17:33
th1aI guess what I was thinking is that we may need to show the whole section title at least when you're viewing the selections in the menu.17:33
aelknerreplaceafill, how do we prevent overflow, then17:33
th1aI don't know if a regular menu will do that.17:34
aelknerplease don't call it a menu17:34
aelknerlet's call things what they are17:34
th1aIt is a dropdown menu.17:34
aelknerwe're talking dropdowns17:34
aelknerreplaceafill, can a <select> have one width when not clicked17:34
th1aOh... wait a sec.17:34
aelknerand be expanded as soon as the user clicks17:35
aelknermaybe that way, the overflow would only be temporary17:35
aelknerand we wouldn't care if a long section title spilled into the content area17:35
th1aThat's essentially what we need.17:35
replaceafillaelkner we could use js for that17:35
aelknerbecause it was only when the user chose to click on it17:35
th1aTemporary overflow.17:35
aelkneranyway, is this what yvl is doing tomorrow?17:36
replaceafilland he's going to be redirected when he select an option anyway17:36
yvlok, frankly aelkner, I do not know now17:36
th1aThe new section title will be displayed in full above anyhow.17:36
th1aIn breadcrumbs and/or title/subtitle17:37
aelknerth1a, that's another thing i wanted to discuss17:37
th1aWell, let's just deal with the menu issue for now.17:37
aelknerif the gradebook view had section title as title and 'Gradebook' as subtitle17:37
aelkneryvl, i could go ahead and code th new manager myself17:38
yvlsure, aelkner17:38
th1aaelkner: Let's not worry about that for now.17:38
aelknerabout what?17:38
aelknerambiguous anticedents always confue me17:39
aelkneroh, ok17:39
replaceafillquestion: why don't we make "Add Worksheet" a (+) button next to the worksheet tab names? ala firefox17:39
aelknerwhat about hide worksheet?17:39
th1aThat's a good idea.17:39
th1aStay focused, please.17:40
th1aWe're in the "move large things around" phase.17:40
th1aNot "Where does this picture go."17:40
th1aSo can aelkner try moving the menus over?17:41
aelknerwhere should it go17:41
aelknertop of the left sidebar?17:41
aelknerafter Add?17:41
aelknerbefore Add?17:41
aelknerand so I add Settings linkset with Preferences link?17:42
aelknerdo i add17:42
aelknerbelow Add, of course17:42
th1aSettings is last.17:42
th1aI really want to rough out the main content area first.17:42
th1aMove the menus over.17:42
aelknerok, i'l start by working on the menu17:43
th1a(move past x weeks into preferences)17:43
th1amove worksheet nav into tertiary navigation.17:43
th1aFill the right margin with the gradebook.17:43
aelknerreplaceafill, i need to use a different base class?17:43
th1aGet rid of the rows eliminated by the coming dropdowns.17:44
aelknerdid you create a wider one?17:44
replaceafillaelkner yes you have to use a different class and no i didnt create a wider one17:44
replaceafillwell, we use to have PageExpanded17:44
aelknerso i need to create the wider one?17:44
aelknerPageExpanded has no sidebar, so what should i create?17:45
replaceafilland it's only for setting an extra class in the <div.container>17:45
aelkneri thought so, a new class that will have wider css setting17:46
replaceafillso you should have "<div class="container widecontainer">17:46
replaceafillor something17:46
aelknerand add widecontainer to page.css?17:46
replaceafillright, all the widecontainer css rule must do is padding-right: 017:47
replaceafilli think17:47
aelknerok, plenty to play around with17:47
aelknerth1a, should i get rid of the mouseover for larger dsecription17:47
th1aI mean, we may bring that back in some way,17:47
aelknerwe'll have a better solution for that later, rght?17:48
th1abut that special space won't be there.17:48
th1aMouseover will probably trigger *something*17:48
th1aIf you want to leave a stub there.17:48
aelknerand the worksheet tabs will look exactly like year tabs in /courses, right?17:48
th1aThey should be going in the same well, yes.17:50
aelkneri meant they should look the same with same css17:50
aelknerbut moving the show only last n weeks to preferences is a great idea17:51
aelknerit is a rare feature, so it doesn't need to crowd the everyday workspace, rght?17:52
aelknerabout the menu for changing term or section17:52
aelknerthe sidebar managers for linksets have a title17:53
aelknerand they indent for the links17:53
aelknerhow do you want the changer to look?17:53
th1aJust title.17:55
aelknerso the title of the sidebar for changing section or term should be 'Title'?!17:55
aelkneror we could have no title and no indent17:55
aelknerplease look at the linksets that we have as a reference for what i'm asking you here17:55
aelknereach sidebar manager has a title17:56
th1aThe menu itself should just have the titles of terms and sections.17:56
aelkneryou're confusing me because you use words like menu for a <select> element17:57
th1aI'll be here for a while aelkner.17:57
aelknerand that is not a menu17:57
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:57
th1aHave a good day/evening guys!17:57
aelknerso i'll just type stuff here until you agree with what i'm saying17:57
replaceafillaelkner the css rule for the widecontainer:17:57
yvlcan I just ask to reiterate a bit on what I should be doing next?17:57 > .body > .widecontainer {17:57
replaceafill    padding: 16px;17:57
replaceafill    width: 720px;17:57
replaceafillsorry for interrupting17:58
aelknerreplaceafill, thanks17:58
aelkneryvl, go ahead17:58
yvlumm, I'm actually asking17:58
* yvl has no idea what's the next priority17:58
th1aI guess we removed your top two, yvl.17:59
yvlso there's the do something with the Application view17:59
th1aOh, easy then.17:59
yvland those :)17:59
th1aDo timetables.18:00
yvland good day to you guys!18:00
aelkneryvl, add schoolyear currently has copy timetables commented out18:00
aelknerbecause you got rid of ITimetableSchemaContainer18:00
yvlyes, aelkner, I noticed18:01
aelkneror something18:01
aelknerso you could fix that18:01
yvlI'll take care of it, sure :)18:01
yvlthanks for reminding :)18:01
aelknermy pleasure :)18:01
aelknerth1a, to create the menu for changing term or section i need you to communicate to me18:01
aelknerwhat you want in a way that communoicates what you want18:02
th1aaelkner: I want nothing out of the ordinary.18:02
th1aSection header:18:02
aelknerthen dropdown18:02
th1aA dropdown containing the titles of the relevant terms.18:02
th1aSection header:18:02
aelknerthen Section header: Section18:02
th1aA dropdown containing the relevant section titles.18:03
th1aYou need to be able to see the whole section titles when selecting them.18:03
aelknerok, each section (which we call manager) has it's own block of html18:03
th1aTruncate (with ...) otherwise to prevent breaking the sidebar.18:03
aelknerwhich has padding18:03
aelkneri.e., takes up space18:03
aelknerbut you know what, i won't worry about that for noe18:04
th1aThank you.  :-D18:04
aelkneri'll just get it rendered, and we can look at it after that18:04
th1aIf we can move these menus, and get the column menus working, it is all downhill from there.18:04
th1aBut until that happens, I'm not going to think about little things.18:05
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th1aaelkner: It is not out of the question that we'll get rid of the title/subtitle in the gradebook.19:52
aelknerah, the double-negative question? :)20:02
aelkneri'd say, no it not not possible to not do it20:02
aelknerbut seriously, you're asking if we could get rid of the title/subtitle?20:02
aelknerand gain the screen real-estate?20:02
aelknerth1a, do we do that in any other views yet?20:03
th1aThat would be a new feature, aelkner.20:08
aelknerth1a typed: 'aelkner: It is not out of the question that we'll get rid of the title/subtitle in the gradebook.20:09
* aelkner wonders what is being asked20:09
th1aIt is not a question.20:09
aelknerit is20:09
aelknernot is it20:09
aelknersorry, my bad20:09
aelknerdyslexia and all20:10
th1aOh... ok.20:10
aelknerso i get your point now20:10
replaceafillth1a section_linkage.html is different from edit section in that it unlinks the section in both sides (prev and next), while section edit lets you disconnect only one20:17
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th1areplaceafill: So the section_linkage view is a superset?20:53
replaceafillyes, kind of20:53
replaceafilli'd say we keep the additional fieldset in edit section20:53
th1aI was thinking the oopposite.20:53
replaceafillah, ok20:54
replaceafillunlink now means on both sides20:54
th1aIt clutters up the edit view.20:54
replaceafillthat's true20:54
th1aOh, I see.20:54
th1aIt ONLY lets you disconnect both.20:54
th1aYou could reconnect one then though, right?20:54
replaceafillif we keep the fieldset in edit?20:55
th1aNo, in the section linkage.20:56
replaceafillah yes20:56
th1aYou could unlink it from both, then reconnect to one.20:56
replaceafilllink to a section (in this term)20:56
replaceafilllink to an existing section20:56
replaceafillthat's is20:56
replaceafillthat's it20:56
th1aSo yes, I'd get rid of it in the edit view.20:57
th1aWe haven't been cramming that kind of thing in other edit views.20:57
replaceafilli agree20:58
replaceafillso, two views will die: link_previous and link_next20:58
replaceafilland the central place for linking will be section_linkage.html20:58
replaceafilli was thinking of doing "Extend to This Term" a dialog20:59
replaceafillis that ok?20:59
th1aI don't follow.20:59
replaceafillit's jus a question with "Extend" Cancel buttons20:59
replaceafillvisit that url20:59
replaceafillyou will see in Semester 121:00
replaceafillthe option Extend to This Term21:00
replaceafillyou click it and get a question21:00
th1aYes, make that a dialog.21:00
th1aI'm not sure we ever needed a confirmation,21:00
th1abut I suppose it is a pretty big jump if you just wonder what happens when I click this?21:01
replaceafill"Unlink this Section" smells like dialog too21:01
replaceafillagain, question with two buttons21:01
replaceafillkk, will work on that21:02
replaceafillsmall stuff i've written down:21:02
replaceafill* Person add forms: show success message '${person} was successfully added' after hitting 'Submit and add'21:02
replaceafillthere's no confirmation the person you added WAS added21:03
th1aThat is, you are right.21:03
replaceafill* /demographics and /resource_demographics Done buttons are redirecting to /settings, should they redirect to /manage?21:03
th1aI guess so, yes.21:03
replaceafill* Delete link should not be rendered when viewing 'manager'. You get a Dependency error21:03
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