IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2011-01-07

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dadengaelkner hi18:43
th1adadeng:  I'll get back to you about the particulars for payment next week.18:46
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replaceafillth1a, zyt?20:10
th1areplaceafill, aye.20:13
replaceafillhey th1a quick gradebook question20:13
replaceafillwe allow extra credits, correct?20:13
replaceafilli mean, an activity with 100 max points can have a score of 101, correct?20:14
th1aAs I recall, yes.20:14
replaceafillwell, i noticed the average column displays 101.0% because of that20:15
replaceafillcan i fix that?20:15
th1aWhat would you expect it to display?20:15
replaceafillor not?20:15
th1aI think I'd rather have it unexpectedly retain information than hide it.20:16
replaceafillcool, just seemed weird :)20:16
th1aOne thing to check is if score systems don't expect scores over 100%.20:16
th1aWe might not have thought about that.20:16
replaceafillcustom score systems?20:17
th1aOr at all for that matter.20:17
replaceafilli'll check20:17
aelknerhey guys20:18
replaceafillhey aelkner20:18
aelknercustom score systems are discrete20:18
th1aHow you feeling aelkner?20:18
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aelknerso that is not an issue20:18
aelknermuch better, thanks20:18
aelknerextra credit is for range values score systems20:19
aelknerand it is useful in that case20:19
th1aMaybe I'm forgetting the terminology.20:19
th1aDifferent scores correspond to percent ranges.20:19
aelknerranged value score systems allow for any number from a to b20:20
aelknerplus any number over b as extra credit20:20
aelknerthey use the range to determin the percentage20:20
aelknerdiscrete values score sytems only allow for specific scores20:21
th1aI'm thinking about when the average is converted to a grade at the end.20:21
aelknerno extra credit is even conceptuallu possible in those cases20:21
aelkneroh, that's different20:21
th1aThat's what I meant.20:21
aelknerthat's an interesting question20:21
th1aIf you have 101% you should still get an "A"20:21
aelknerin the case of averages the percentage is reverse applied to the score system20:22
th1aNot a traceback.  ;-)20:22
replaceafillyou do, right aelkner? i mean, you set the lower percentage20:22
aelknerso yes, 101% is still an A20:22
aelkneras long as the logic is correct in the code :)20:22
aelknerare we experiencing a traceback?20:22
th1aAs long as an "A" is defined as 95 and up rather than 95 to 100.20:22
aelkneri'll check now20:23
replaceafillit works20:23
replaceafilli mean, you get an A with 101%20:23
th1aDo we have a test?20:23
replaceafillnope :P20:23
replaceafilli'll add one20:23
th1aGradebook could probably use more tests.20:23
replaceafilli realized coverage lies some time20:24
th1aIt is most sensitive to errors.20:24
replaceafilli mean, you cover statements20:24
th1aYeah, that's a limited measure of something like the gradebook.20:24
replaceafillbut maybe not logic20:24
th1aIt doesn't mean you've covered every crazy ass way a teacher can screw things up.  ;-)20:24
th1aWhat if I set up my gradebook and delete it 20 times in a row.20:25
th1aDifferently each time?20:25
th1aI have to go pay my babysitter.20:26
aelknerschooltool/gradebook/browser/ (line 97) has converAverage20:26
aelknerf average >= score[3]:20:26
aelkner            return score[0]20:26
aelknerthat means 101% WILL convert to A20:26
aelknerwithout crashing20:26
* replaceafill hates those score[0], score[3]!!!20:27
aelknerit's really old code20:27
aelknerwe could re-write the gradebook :)20:27
aelknerbasically the scores of a discrete score system are kept as an array of arrays20:28
replaceafilltuples, correct?20:29
aelknerif that were an array of objects, then those objects could have better names than score[3]20:29
replaceafilli remember i had to look that up >:(20:29
aelknera smaller change that would not be a complete rewite would be to change just that aspect20:29
aelknercreating a new object called DscreteScore20:30
replaceafillto something meaningful like 'Score'!20:30
aelkneryeah, perhaps we could go over this together in more detail at the sprint20:30
aelknerand not do aything about it until we return20:30
aelknerso as not to distract from the other sprint priorities20:30
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replaceafillaelkner, you still around?20:55
replaceafillthe due filter widget of the gradebook only works when you hit 'Save'20:59
replaceafillwhile the Term and Section dropdowns update the gradebook instantly21:00
replaceafillmaybe we could update the gradebook when the checkbox is marked...21:01
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aelknerreplaceafill, perhaps21:05
aelknercould you form a list of gradebook issues for the sprint?21:05
aelknerput that one on the list21:05
replaceafillwill do21:05
aelknerit's great that tom is having you refactor21:06
aelknerit's long overdue21:06
aelknerespecially the tests, i like that you broke up README.txt21:06
aelkneri hated making those comments (to make future tests pass)21:07
replaceafillme 2!21:07
replaceafillor having to check the whole readme to add something at the end21:07
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fsufitchaelkner, ping!21:28
aelknerhey there21:28
aelknerhow goes the code reading?21:29
aelknerany questions?21:29
fsufitchnot really, no, although it feels like my head's been filled with mush lately21:30
aelknerhow so?21:30
fsufitchmy sleep schedule's been off, i need to fix that21:31
aelkneri don't even have a sleep schedule :)21:31
aelknerbut i can always target any specific hour range to be awake21:31
fsufitchthat would actually be great if i could manage it21:33
fsufitchunfortunately i can't, as im at home with family21:33
fsufitchso i sort of have to conform to the day/night cycle...21:33
aelknermakes sense21:33
aelknerwhat do you think about what you;ve read so far?21:33
aelknerpartivilarly schooltool.courseinfo21:34
aelknerdid you branch it?21:34
fsufitchive mostly been looking at person demos to see how a finished version of this looks21:36
aelkneri'd like you to do the branch of my branch followed by the push to your folder as i outlined in my email21:36
aelknermostly to see if there are any issues to work out wth launchpad21:37
fsufitchill do that right now21:37
fsufitchworked just fine21:39
aelknergood news21:39
aelknertry to make your comits/pushes as small as possible and ping/email me when you do21:40
aelkneralso, we should meet after you have fully digested not only the code but David's doc21:41
aelknerin other words, when you think you understand the mission of the package21:42
fsufitchwell i think i understand that now, i was just looking over the code to understand what was going on programatically21:42
fsufitchi met with david and talked with him about the doc a few weeks ago21:42
aelknerso you understand the basic idea of having a set of staging objects21:43
aelknerthat get deployed at the beginning of a school year21:43
aelknerit's nice to have a safe are to play21:43
aelknerwithout corrupting the current school year21:43
fsufitchwait, this branch only contains your code, does the whole buildout system take care of using the rest of schooltool for when the code is run?21:44
aelknerschooltool will be downloaded as an egg21:44
aelknerdid you do the make?21:44
aelknerthat would be agood thing to try now21:45
aelknerping me when make run is ready, ok?21:45
replaceafillaelkner, should fsufitch work with latest eggs?21:46
replaceafillthat buildout uses 1.4 series21:46
fsufitchthe make is being performed currently21:47
fsufitchi really need to learn how buildout works one of these days21:47
replaceafillfsufitch, if you go to pycon, there's a talk about it :)21:48
fsufitchoh awesome21:50
fsufitchi will be at pycon, and likely at the talk :)21:50
fsufitchwell this is bad, it couldnt install zope.ucol 1.0.2, whatever that is21:50
replaceafillpaste the last lines somewhere21:50
replaceafilldid you run 'make ubuntu-environment' before make?21:51
fsufitchoh duh, im dumb21:53
aelknerreplaceafill, nice21:56
fsufitchso, no, still the same error after a make ubuntu-environment, make clean, and make22:04
fsufitchreplaceafill, any other something i might have forgotten?22:06
replaceafillcould you paste the traceback?22:06
replaceafillfsufitch, you using ubuntu?22:10
replaceafilli guess you need python dev libraries22:11
replaceafillpython-all-dev should have done it...22:11
fsufitchi am indeed using ubuntu22:11
fsufitchpython-all-dev is already the newest version.22:12
fsufitchalready installed22:12
replaceafillyou're on lucid?22:13
fsufitch2.7-dev wasnt installed, hm22:13
replaceafillhhmm you should use python2.622:13
replaceafillnot sure if everything goes right with 2.722:13
fsufitcher... it's telling me i'm using natty22:14
fsufitchthat can't be right22:14
replaceafilltry python in a terminal22:14
fsufitchno, it's 10.10, ok22:14
fsufitchit's 2.6.6 that runs22:14
replaceafillafaik, Python.h: No such file or directory it's signal of missing python dev package22:15
fsufitchwell yeah but i have the 2.5 2.6 and 2.7 dev packages installed22:16
fsufitchand it's not finding any of them22:16
fsufitchim trying a make clean again22:16
replaceafilli wonder if it's a maverick thing...22:16
fsufitchand um... schooltool is using python 2.522:16
fsufitchoh and there it goes, it works now22:16
fsufitchthat was dumb.22:16
fsufitchoh yeah that's it22:17
fsufitchpython2.5-dev is NOT included in ubuntu's python-all-dev anymore22:17
replaceafillyou will need to update that at some point22:17
replaceafillto match cando in lucid i think22:17
fsufitchi think i reported that as a bug a while ago22:17
replaceafill i guess the branch you branched is kind of old22:18
replaceafillright, march 2010!22:18
fsufitchwell if it's fixed in trunk im not gonna mess with it22:19
replaceafillyou should ask menesis about this versioning stuff, he's the expert :)22:20
fsufitchoof, i forgot how long these makes took to run22:24
fsufitchi upgraded my computer's CPU recently, too22:24
fsufitchi don't use overpriced intel stuff22:26
fsufitchamd phenom II x4 3.2 ghz22:26
fsufitchi mean sure, intel might have a slight edge in performance, but it's really not worth paying 2x the price22:27
replaceafillwow, 2x!?!?22:28
fsufitchfor similar performance, yes22:28
fsufitch vs
fsufitchi mean, come on22:29
fsufitchit's a bit better, but more than 2x the cost22:30
replaceafill159 vs 579?!?!?22:30
* replaceafill would like to run schooltool tests on one of those :)22:31
fsufitchon one of what, those processors?22:32
replaceafillthe 579 one22:32
fsufitchoh yea22:32
fsufitchwould run quite nicely22:32
fsufitchthough what you REALLY want to run tests on is google's cloud computing system :)22:33
fsufitchi interned at them last summer, and it is the most wonderful thing ever22:33
fsufitchespecially since i worked on their build system22:33
fsufitchlike, the amount of time this make is taking is horrendous22:33
fsufitchin the cloud system it would have been done in 2-3 minutes tops22:33
fsufitch10 minutes for full compilation of a huge project like gmail22:33
replaceafillis there like an estimate on how fast that works?22:34
replaceafilli mean, like GHz or somethign22:34
fsufitchwell no, because when it takes 10 minutes that's because it uses thousands of machines to do the work all at once :)22:35
fsufitchit's hyperparallel across a very large numbers of nodes22:35
fsufitchplus it's efficient too (which is what i worked on)22:35
fsufitchit only compiles what's necessary, and even when some things need to be compiled, they are checked against a cache to possibly just use a pre-compiled version of the same code22:36
fsufitchalong with a lot of other stuff similar to that22:36
fsufitchto ensure no work is done needlessly22:36
fsufitchit's pretty amazing :)22:36
fsufitchthere is seriously something called an omelette in the egg structure?22:39
replaceafilla useful one22:40
fsufitchsigh, if i try to make run, one of the config files fails22:42
fsufitchzope.configuration.xmlconfig.ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/fsufitch/schooltool.courseinfo/instance/school.zcml", line 4.2-4.4422:42
fsufitch    ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/fsufitch/schooltool.courseinfo/eggs/schooltool-", line 10.2-10.6022:42
fsufitch    ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/fsufitch/schooltool.courseinfo/src/schooltool/courseinfo/plugin.zcml", line 4.4-4.2722:42
fsufitch    ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/fsufitch/schooltool.courseinfo/src/schooltool/courseinfo/configure.zcml", line 69.2-69.3222:42
fsufitch    ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/fsufitch/schooltool.courseinfo/src/schooltool/courseinfo/browser/configure.zcml", line 15.2-21.822:42
fsufitch    ConfigurationError: ('Invalid value for', 'class', "ImportError: Couldn't import schooltool.courseinfo.browser.courseinfo, No module named courseinfo")22:42
fsufitchmake: *** [run] Error 122:42
replaceafillaelkner, was that branch 'stable'?22:43
replaceafillfsufitch, definitely, that module is missing :)22:45
aelkneri don't remember22:47
aelkneri'll try right now22:48
fsufitchit seems that a browser conf file is trying to import .courseinfo, which indeed does not exist22:48
aelknerwe never got around to writing the browser code, so it could be in need of repair22:49
aelkneri'd remove aything you can't fix for now22:49
aelkneralso, the buildout.cfg may need updating22:50
aelknerit dates back to the summer, and much has changed since then in the zope eggs22:50
aelknertry replacing 1.4 with trunk22:52
aelknerin base.cfg22:52
replaceafillaelkner, i'd ask menesis about that first22:52
aelknerwhy wait?   it's not live code22:52
replaceafilli mean, if this should work with cando, cando uses the 1.4 series22:53
replaceafillbut, right, it's not live22:53
aelknerlooking at my schooltool.niepa package, which uses cando, 1.4 is replaced with trnk22:53
replaceafillyou can 'experiment' :P22:53
aelknerand there's the aditional link for cando22:53
replaceafilland backporting is also an option22:53
aelknerbut filip doesn't need that22:53
fsufitchwell, there chugs the make again...22:53
fsufitchtoo late, heh22:53
aelknergood news22:53
aelknerchugging is good :)22:54
replaceafillyou'll get the same error :P22:54
replaceafillbut with newer eggs ;)22:54
fsufitchat least they're not all in one basket22:55
aelknerstill chugging?22:55
fsufitchit's fetching all of zope again, after all22:56
aelkneri predict success22:57
aelkneri said predict, not bet :)22:57
replaceafillah! :(22:58
fsufitchmake: *** [bin/test] Error 122:59
fsufitchGot zope.event 3.5.0-1.22:59
fsufitchThe version, 3.7.0, is not consistent with the requirement, 'zope.dublincore<3.7'.22:59
fsufitch  Installing package.22:59
fsufitchError: Bad version 3.7.022:59
fsufitchmake: *** [bin/test] Error 122:59
fsufitchwait... what?22:59
replaceafillfsufitch, can you paste your base.cfg?23:00
aelknerbtw, where are you getting these pastes?  i haven't seen any notification in this channel23:01
replaceafillaelkner, does  that still work?23:01
replaceafillfsufitch, i'd "rm -r eggs/zope.event*"23:03
replaceafilland rerun make23:03
replaceafilloh sorry23:03
replaceafilldublincore :P23:03
fsufitchwhy does that sound like a genre of metal music?23:04 probably needs to be pdated23:04
fsufitchruunning your rm didnt work...23:05
aelkneri annotated your paste with niepa's setup.py23:05
aelknerright, that needs to change23:06
aelknerbut i would look at all of the annotation23:06
aelknerfsufitch, or just replace it?23:08
aelknerprobably easier23:08
fsufitchthe setup.p?23:09
fsufitchhmm okay23:09
aelkneryeah, but niepa would need to be changed to courseinfo23:10
aelknera simple edit/replace23:10
aelknercando could be removed23:10
fsufitchhmmo k23:10
fsufitchafk for a bit while make runs23:12
replaceafillfsufitch, that branch builds with this diff
replaceafillit doesnt start of course ;)23:26
replaceafillbut it does build23:26
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fsufitchreplaceafill, it's aliiive23:44
fsufitchso, is it weird that this computer has about 4 different HTTP servers running on it currently?23:46
fsufitchthere's apache, schooltool (zope), pybookbuilder (web2py), and my blog (pythonpaste)23:47
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