IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2010-06-08

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*** yvl changes topic to "SchoolTool development | SchoolTool 1.4 has been released! | IRC logs at | SchoolTool Dev meetings Mon, 14:30 UTC (16:30 EET, 9:30 EST) | Use for pasting | Write more unit and functional tests! Yes, you! | Build Status: | Can't speak? Please register and identify your nick"15:41
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th1aI just ordered a Tonidoplug:
th1aSee if that works as a $99 SchoolTool appliance.17:07
yvlhmm, 1.2GHz ARM and 512MB RAM...17:15
th1aWe'll see how it does.17:15
yvlyes, that will be really interesting17:15
yvlI wonder if libraries we use compile on ARM flawlessly17:18
yvlwell, one way to find out :)17:18
th1aWell... yeah.17:18
th1aI hadn't taken that into account.17:18
th1aWe'll see.17:18
th1aPerhaps if we can hack something together to test it, and it works ok, then we could get them to make an image.17:22
yvlwell, tonido is a product built on Sheeva Plug17:31
yvlreading on, Marvel also provides gcc cross-compiler for arm17:32
yvl(Marvel develops ShivaPlug, Tonido sells it with some additional candy)17:32
th1aI see...17:32
th1aThe tonido parts might be nice for my home use of the thing.17:33
yvlyes, that's a very nice gadget with "batteries built in"...17:35
th1aIt looks like 9.04 is the last Ubuntu version packaged for it.17:35
th1aI just been getting the "We're a tiny island in the middle of the ocean that would like to use SchoolTool but we only know Windows." emails lately.17:36
th1aWe need an appliance.17:36
yvlthat sounds very, very right17:37
yvlon so many levels :)17:37
th1aI mean, we basically have that on the software side.17:38
th1aBut in perception there is still a big difference between, "buy this an plug it in" and "buy *something* plug it in, and install this new operating system."17:39
yvlwell, SheevaPlug is sold with Ubuntu 9.04 I think17:40
yvlso it's currently "buy this, plug it in, install ST"17:41
th1aIn theory.17:41
yvlwell, not currently, but the easiest goal to achieve17:41
th1aAlso, we could install the software ourselves (manually).17:42
th1aWe'd need packages to make it maintainable... I don't know how you make ARM packages...17:42
th1aFor, say lxml.17:42
th1aI guess the "Tondio Platform" is not really what we need.17:45
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replaceafillyvl, got a minute?17:46
th1aAlso, I want to call it tondio, not tonido.17:46
yvlah, yes17:48
yvland yes, replaceafill17:48
yvljust one second17:48
yvlth1a, I'm already calling my friends... I think there are some ARM devices I could borrow17:49
yvlthat would be cool to try (after timetables)17:49
th1aMaybe a little TOO cool...   ;-)17:50
yvland... one of my friends is kind of porting one BIG application to ARM17:50
yvlso the waters are not THAT uncharted ;)17:50
th1aClearly ARM is a hot topic.17:51
th1aTonidoPlug does ship with 9.04 and ssh running.17:51
replaceafillyvl, could you check:
yvlsure, looking...17:53
replaceafilldwelsh wants three reports, an individual scr, a section scr and a sytem scr17:54
replaceafillin a single pdf17:54
replaceafillthe individual and section ones work17:54
replaceafillthe system wide one takes forever to finish17:55
replaceafilland it's not generating the rml what it takes time17:55
th1aIt isn't so much the time as the memory, right?17:55
replaceafillit's the call to rml2pdf....17:55
th1aI mean, it is ok for a giant report to take a long time.17:55
replaceafillthe z3c.rml.document.Document class has a process method17:56
replaceafillwhich copies the rml as a StringIO17:56
replaceafillthe generated rml for the Career Center is about 210 MB17:56
yvlwell, the way I see it17:56
yvlto save the memory you probably will have to generate multiple rmls17:57
yvland join their built... whatevers17:57
yvlpdfs probably17:57
th1aAh.. joining pdf's!17:57
yvlit is a collection of separate reports anyway, yes?17:57
replaceafilldo we have a library to join pdfs?17:58
replaceafilli mean, it's adding a new dependency, right?17:58
yvlnot necessarily17:58
yvlI think that could be done on reportlab's level17:59
yvlI really do not remember how17:59
th1aHow many sections are there?17:59
yvlbut I can look at it of course :)17:59
replaceafilli have counted the number of individual reports only, around 500018:00
replaceafillthat is a student enrolled in a section, 5000 enrollments we could say18:00
th1aWe don't need a perfect solution to this.18:00
replaceafilli was looking yesterday and i only found pyPDf18:01
replaceafill"Reportlab has a product called PageCatcher that allows18:01
replaceafillyou to merge .PDF files." :O18:01
replaceafill"You could try getting ghostscript, converting the files to ps, and then use18:02
replaceafill" :|18:02
yvlwell, as we are building the reports ourselves18:02
yvlwe don't need to go that far18:02
th1aIf there is a sane way to group these, we should do that.18:03
th1areplaceafill:  Do you understand the reason for this?18:03
th1aEntire task.18:03
yvlI remember that Reportlab gives you an option to add several document builds next to each other for the same file18:03
replaceafillto back up, correct?18:03
replaceafilli mean, they want to have an archive of all the students grades18:04
th1aRight... in particular to just print all these out and put them in a box.18:04
th1aSo the number of files is not necessarily worth spending a lot of time on.18:04
yvlso eventually it would be a loop of "build rml, render rml"18:04
replaceafillyvl, i have even thought about a zipped file with lots of pdfs in it18:05
yvlwell, the memory is consumed while parsing the enormous rml / building the flowables and organizing them, right?18:06
yvlso you can definitely do that in portions18:06
replaceafillmy 'poor' benchmarks say that 10% of the time is building the rml and the rest the pdf18:06
yvlone rml per... student or something18:07
yvlthen let reportlab parse the tiny rml, and render18:07
yvland then generate another rml for next student18:07
yvland so on18:07
replaceafillyes, but how do we make a single file from them?18:07
yvlhmm, I only remember that this can be done18:08
yvllet me look into that and get back to you :)18:08
replaceafilli can look for it18:08
yvlget back to you today, of course :)18:08
replaceafillthanks, i'll look too18:08
th1aCould you please just try having it put, say, the first fifth of the sections in one report and see if it works?18:10
replaceafilli did with ten yesterday, and it worked18:10
th1aTen files.18:11
replaceafillit took a little of time but it finished18:11
replaceafillah no18:11
replaceafillten sections in a single file18:11
th1aHow many files would that give you for the whole thing?18:11
replaceafillah, let me see18:11
th1aHow many pages is ten sections?18:12
replaceafilllet me see, i deleted the file :(18:12
replaceafillbuiliding again18:12
replaceafillth1a, 328 pages for the first 10 sections18:17
replaceafill1 MB18:17
replaceafillsize of the file18:17
replaceafilland it took:18:17
replaceafillStarted at 2010-06-08 09:14:10.01916418:17
replaceafillGenerating the rml took 5 seconds18:17
replaceafill2010-06-08 09:16:36,387 kill_hung_threads status: 10 threads (1 working, 9 idle, 0 starting) ave time 146.37sec, max time 146.37sec, killed 0 workers18:17
replaceafill2010-06-08 09:16:45,870 kill_hung_threads status: 10 threads (1 working, 9 idle, 0 starting) ave time 155.86sec, max time 155.86sec, killed 0 workers18:17
replaceafill2010-06-08 09:16:54,825 kill_hung_threads status: 10 threads (1 working, 9 idle, 0 starting) ave time 164.81sec, max time 164.81sec, killed 0 workers18:17
replaceafill2010-06-08 09:17:03,794 kill_hung_threads status: 10 threads (1 working, 9 idle, 0 starting) ave time 173.78sec, max time 173.78sec, killed 0 workers18:17
replaceafillGenerating the pdf took 175 seconds18:17
replaceafillsorry for the flooding18:17
th1aHow many files would you need?  Perhaps Welsh has no idea of what he's asking for.18:17
th1aTime is really irrelevant.18:18
replaceafillok, let me see how many sections...18:18
replaceafill342 sections18:19
replaceafill4845 single student reports to build18:20
th1aHow big are they?18:20
replaceafilljust one? it depends on how many competencies the section has18:20
replaceafilllet me look for a big section18:20
th1aThis is completely fucked.18:22
th1aWe need a reality check with Welsh.18:22
th1aYou're talking about 11,000 pages of section reports.18:23
replaceafilli was thinking, if only the rml takes like 210 MB, how big is this pdf going to be18:23
replaceafilli vote for the zipped version!18:24
yvlby the way, this is a very viable option18:25
th1aI don't think he even wants this.18:25
yvlgive the rml, and build it to pdf from command line18:25
yvlbut th1a may be right :)18:25
yvlagain :)18:25
replaceafillyvl, how can i build it from the command line?18:25
yvlif __name__ == '__main__':18:26
yvl    canvas = go(sys.argv[1])18:26
yvlit should work :)18:27
yvlexcept for images of course18:27
replaceafillhhmm just zonki18:27
replaceafillin the footer18:27
replaceafilldefault page template18:27
yvl..../parts/omelette/z3c/rml$ python tests/input/rml-examples-000-simple.rml18:28
replaceafillImportError: No module named lxml18:28
replaceafillcan i use the instance's python?18:29
replaceafilli mean, does the instance's python get's all the eggs in the python path?18:29
th1aHow many pages are the student reports, roughly, each?18:30
replaceafill3-4 pages18:30
yvlif you want to use your checked out instance, you'll need a script like bin/start-schooltool-instance18:30
yvlthose are auto-generated18:30
yvlbut if you installed ST as .deb18:31
replaceafillno, it's a check out18:31
yvlyour system python already has the needed stuff18:31
yvlI mean - users will have that18:31
yvlso their sysadmins can write command line scripts18:31
yvlthen again.. printing 12.000 pages of reports...18:32
yvlor more like 18.000 pages18:32
th1aOK, I just sent an email to Welsh questioning the sanity of this implementation.18:32
replaceafillto be fair, his bug says "I envision naming the reports:18:34
th1aIf we really need an archival dump of everything, it will probably have to be a much denser report (much more data per page).18:35
th1aWhich reports here are giant archives and which are per-person/section?18:44
replaceafillth1a, ?18:45
th1aAre all these giant pdfs or are some reports to be requested per person or section?18:46
replaceafillno, there are per person and section reports too18:46
replaceafillwhich the teacher can use18:47
replaceafillthe giant one is for the administrator18:47
th1aAnd which is that?18:47
replaceafillthe one that goes through all the sections and build the giant pdf18:48
th1aThe section report.18:48
th1aCan I see a few pages of that?18:49
replaceafilli'll send you the one for 10 sections, ok/18:49
replaceafillor you want a single section?18:49
replaceafillor a single person?18:49
th1a10 sections is fine.18:53
replaceafillim attaching one of each :)18:53
th1aI hope this doesn't fill up my GMail inbox.18:55
replaceafillth1a, sent18:56
replaceafilldont worry, it's just about 1.5 Mb18:56
th1aOh no YOU CRASHED GOOGLE!18:57
th1aOK, first, remove all that text.18:57
replaceafillyou mean, to test_18:58
th1aNext, remove all compentencies that don't have a score.18:58
replaceafillbecause Glenda and Lee asked for that18:58
th1aThey're wrong if they actually want to print these.18:58
th1aI mean, we need to clarify the purpose of this giant lump.18:58
th1aThis giant report is no different in format than the individual ones, right?18:59
replaceafillit just a lot of individual ones18:59
th1aThat's what I mean.18:59
th1aThat'll have to change.19:00
th1aAlso, why does the SchoolTool logo still look like shit?19:00
replaceafilli guess it's the pdf rendering19:00
replaceafillbecause it's the "new" zonki19:00
th1aCan we have that not pixelated?19:00
th1aALso, why is the text pixelated?19:01
replaceafillit is?19:01
th1aThat's an image of text, not pdf text.19:01
replaceafillcan you send a screenshot?19:01
replaceafillyou mean, the schooltool part19:01
replaceafillit's a single image19:01
th1aDon't do that.19:02
replaceafillzonki and the text19:02
th1aWe need higher res zonki and proper pdf text in the footer.19:02
replaceafillshould we reopen this:
replaceafillth1a, this is the original file:
replaceafillzonki looks "decent" there19:05
th1aI don't want the text image.19:07
th1areplaceafill:  Looking over Javier's emails,19:47
th1aI guess you can do some of the data entry cleanup he suggests, but I'm thinking the real issue is finishing grading.19:48
th1aAnd getting actual feedback on that.19:48
replaceafillthe word grade for "grades" and "grades" confuses me :P19:55
replaceafillwhen you said "finishing grading" i thought you mean putting the student in the right place :(19:55
th1aI'm not sure which Javier is talking about for that matter.19:56
replaceafillnow i see it's "finishing grading" as complete the gradebook funtionality19:56
th1aI mean, that's the part that could just not work.19:56
replaceafillto me javier is talking about grading -> school years, groups, levels, etc19:57
th1aI suppose so.19:57
th1aWe kind of need to prioritize his suggestions.19:58
th1aWhich ones are needed now, needed later, and nice to have.19:58
replaceafillah ok19:58
replaceafillshould we create bugs, blueprint or just a text file :)19:58
th1ae.g., see how many people are in a group before you assign someone to it = nice to have.19:58
th1aActually, why don't you make a text file.19:59
th1aneeded later = things like progressing to next year, which we don't really need until next year.19:59
th1aAnd we've already done some work on, ofc.20:00
replaceafill- Add grade and group to the student form20:01
replaceafill- Report how many students are in a group or all groups20:02
replaceafill- Set maximum number of students for groups20:04
replaceafill- Some weird birth date calculation from the grade value?20:05
replaceafill- Filter students with no group20:06
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th1aWeird birth date thing = nice to have.20:12
th1a(a good idea, actually)20:12
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replaceafillth1a, it seems like there's no way to improve the image quality...21:44
replaceafilleven in the tests of the z3c.rml package, there's some examples and they look horrible21:48
replaceafilljust like zonki :)21:48
th1aHuh.  Ok, well, you know, maybe we don't need that anyhow.21:49
th1aMaybe a much subtler gray "Created with SchoolTool." type thing.21:50
replaceafilljust text_21:50
th1aI don't necessarily remember how that got there in the first place, although presumably it was my idea...21:52
th1aBut I've been reacting more to the image quality than whether or not it is actually necessary.21:53
jelknerWhat?  I love zonki!21:54
th1ajelkner:  Just not necessarily by default at the bottom of printed reports.21:56
th1aI'm really not sure how it got there.21:56
* jelkner agrees21:57
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th1aOK, dwelsh says just do reports by section, not the giant thing.22:22
th1areplaceafill, ^22:22
replaceafillth1a, could you create a mock of the footer you want?22:27
replaceafillsince i have no design skills :(22:28
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