IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2009-03-02

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replaceafillaelkner, ping01:05
Lumiereaelkner: btw, replaceafill's commit access is working now01:33
aelknerLumiere: cool01:42
aelknerreplaceafill: what01:42
aelkners up?01:42
replaceafillhey aelkner, just a question01:42
replaceafillto kill a bug in cando i have to change code01:42
aelkneryou should ask ignas about doing something like that01:43
replaceafilli guess i need to create a branch right?01:43
replaceafillah ok01:43
aelknerhow about at tomorrow's morning meeting at 9:3001:43
aelknerno prob01:43
* Lumiere wonders what time it is for replaceafill right now01:43
replaceafillLumiere, one hour earlier than yours :)01:44
Lumiereso 8:30 am meeting01:46
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Lumierehi all, I am planning to join you for the meeting today14:16
Lumierebut with the snow... I am going to be trying to get to work14:17
Lumiereand I may have some issues14:17
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Lumierehi th1a16:03
th1aGood morning, Lumiere16:05
Lumieresnowed in... :)16:05
Lumierereplaceafill is committing to cando now16:05
th1aHow much snow?16:05
th1aIs replaceafill snowed in?16:06
Lumierelol he isn't16:06
Lumiereit's 5-7 and blowing here16:06
th1aI guess that's what we've got, more or less.16:07
Lumierewe're in the mid range16:07
Lumiereabout 30 miles southeast16:07
Lumiereis over 1016:08
th1aNYC called off school for the first time in five years.16:08
Lumiereand DC is 2h late ;)16:08
Lumierethe rest of the DC metro is off16:08
th1aHuh.  No school here.16:08
th1aRhee is just a hard-ass.16:08
Lumiereit's only 2-3 inches in town16:09
Lumieremaybe a little more onthe mall and ward 816:09
Lumierebut they're both flat16:09
th1aWe had a big snow-related scandal here though that helped drive out the last superintendent.16:09
th1aThey sent everyone home at noon and got the busses stuck in utter gridlock.16:10
th1aSome kids were stuck on the busses until like 9:00.16:10
th1aSo we'll be calling school off quickly for a few years.16:10
ignascan I start making the "in soviet Russia" jokes now?16:12
ignasI had school canceled like once in my life, maybe twice :(16:14
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Lumierereplaceafill: the answer to your question yesterday16:21
replaceafillLumiere, cool16:22
replaceafillLumiere, i fixed the threading thing16:22
th1aGood morning replaceafill, ignas, Lumiere, aelkner.16:30
th1aHow was the weekend meeting?16:30
aelknervery productive16:31
aelknerwe trnslated their lsit of user stories to launchpad16:31
aelknerhad a very lively discussion about terms :)16:32
th1aUnfortunately that was when I was at dinner.16:32
aelknerand i got jelkner's cando instance set up with his own custom competency list16:32
th1aWhich list is that?16:32
aelknerhe came up with a replacement lsit for compsci 116:33
aelknerthat basically words the existing competencies better16:33
aelknerbut i had to give them their own global ids16:33
aelknersince they weren't the SAME competencies exactly16:33
aelknerit reminded us of the fact that we will need a feature for "translating" comps from one list to another16:34
aelknereven this summer, the state of vvirgina will likely come up with new global ids16:35
aelknerand that will require a translation from this years list to next years16:35
th1aYou essentially need a relationship.16:35
aelknerwe would need an xml spec16:36
th1aThat's pretty much it, I think.16:36
aelknerso that they can specify the translation16:36
th1aIn SchoolTool you can just use a relationship object.16:36
aelknerbut under the hoos we can use schooltool.relationship16:36
aelknerignas: ?16:36
* ignas is just trying to understand whether relationships are a good idea16:37
ignasthe hi was accidental16:37
ignasyeah, it might be a good idea16:37
ignasespecially if competency list is changing year to year16:37
aelknerit may not always change year to year16:37
ignaslike courses, yes16:37
aelknerit's just that they haven't come up with the universal list yet16:38
aelknerbut yes, courses could change i suppose16:38
ignasaelkner: and you expect them to come up with a list that will not have to change?16:38
aelknernot that it won't change16:38
aelknerbut that it will only change slightly year to year16:38
* th1a is distracted...16:39
aelkneras opposed to needlessly recreateing the whole lsit from scratch each year16:39
aelknerwith new global ids16:39
aelknerthat's what i likely to happen now unless we come up with a more permanent solution16:39
aelknerdwelsh is on top of this issue16:40
aelknerhe just need to get with the state folks at some point16:40
aelknerhe an jason, of course16:40
th1aSorry... my shoveler appeared at the door.16:40
aelknerit's beautiful out there16:41
aelkneranyway, that's my report16:41
th1aSo... much like, say, figuring out how a gradebook is supposed to work,16:41
aelkneroh, and i'll send that invoice today as you requested, th1a16:41
th1athe problem with versioning of standards is that there is not, at the bottom, a logical, rational structure.16:41
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th1aNobody does it right, it is nobody's job to figure out which new standards map to which old standards, etc.16:42
aelknerdwelsh wants that job16:42
aelknerbut yes, for now there isn't someone doing that16:43
th1adwelsh will rue the day he thought that was a good idea.16:43
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th1aI mean, I marched a long way down that path myself.16:43
Lumiereremember that for the most point global ID dont change... just text does16:43
th1aI spent a year of my life on that shit.16:43
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th1aHere's the thing: NOBODY CARES.16:44
Lumiereth1a: I know... standards are a mess16:44
Lumiereonly the sysadmin cares16:44
aelknerwell, educators care that assements carry for the student to other places of learning16:44
th1aI do think that it is better handled by relationships (this standard is equivalent to that) than year to year versioning.16:45
th1aThey don't care enough to do what needs to be done.  They really don't.16:45
aelknerwell, relationships is an implementation detail16:45
aelkneryou still need to UI for setting up those relationships16:45
aelknerso the user does have to get involved16:46
th1aOK,  enough of my post-traumatic ranting.16:46
aelknerthese user stories will be driven by the state of VA this summer16:47
aelknerbut enough on that16:47
th1aDid you guys make mostly bugs or blueprints?16:47
aelknermostly bugs, a couple of blueprints16:47
aelknerdwelsh has used bugs in the past even for small features16:48
aelknerlike changin test on a form to being more informative16:48
aelknerit's not a bug by definition16:48
th1aThat is preferable since we don't spend much time looking at blueprints.16:48
aelknerbut for the more ambitious projects16:48
aelknerwe set up a couple of blueprints16:49
aelknerthe opposite of low-haanging fruit16:49
th1aOK.  Thanks.16:49
replaceafillwell, i finished grokking the basicperson package16:49
replaceafilland i started to fix bugs in cando16:50
* ignas has yet to look at the basciperson16:50
replaceafilli have a question16:51
th1aGo ahead.16:51
replaceafillin order to fix a bug, i have to modify the package16:51
LumiereI am hoping to move bugs toward blueprints long term16:51
replaceafillbut i thought just of copying the template16:52
ignasreplaceafill: if it's a bug in schooltool as well16:52
replaceafillit's about the title of the form16:52
ignasmodify it, and tell me to merge it16:52
replaceafillignas, is the form that allows you to add students to your section16:52
replaceafillright now the title says "Students"16:52
replaceafilldwelsh wants it to say "Students from [cours] [section]"16:53
Lumierereplaceafill: before we go too far, can you look at the enrollment view in schooltool to see if it shows that course/section information16:53
Lumiereif it does, then we shouldn't change the schooltool view16:53
replaceafilli guess it doesnt16:53
ignasreplaceafill: hmm, which view is it? section membership one?16:54
aelkneryes, that one16:54
th1aIt is fine to change that in SchoolTool.16:54
ignasyeah, i think so too, though the title is not set in the template16:54
ignasbut rather in the view attributes16:54
replaceafillyes its the view16:54
replaceafilltitle i guess, right?16:54
ignasif i recall correctly16:54
ignasi think so16:54
replaceafillso, i think i have to create a branch from schooltool trunk to do that, right?16:55
ignasreplaceafill: if you could make it show not just titles of course and section16:55
ignasbut rather links to the course and section16:55
ignasit would be perfect16:55
replaceafilli started to fix the threading view of the cando forum16:56
replaceafillin the message package16:56
replaceafilli have a question here16:56
aelkneryeah, that should be a fun one16:56
replaceafillignas, right now the view is showing A, B, C, D, E16:57
replaceafilland it only should show A, C16:57
replaceafilli dont know how to set up a test to show that16:57
aelkneri don't think ignas knows the issues of that particular package16:57
ignasreplaceafill: i have no idea what you are talking about ;)16:57
replaceafilli mean, i can make a test saying "is this element here"16:57
replaceafillits not a package issue16:58
aelknerah, but you're asking about XPATH16:58
replaceafillits a testing issue :)16:58
ignashmm, well - you will have to "select" all of them16:58
aelkneryou can say not in16:58
ignasand make sure only the 2 you need are there16:58
replaceafilli already know what's the problem with the view16:58
ignasaelkner: not reliable really, too easy to break the text by adding an unrelated "B"16:58
aelknerright, that's what the point fo exact testing against XPATH expressions16:59
replaceafillaelkner, the problem was because of the way the queue works16:59
ignasi can't really say how it should be done witohut being able to see it though, sorry16:59
aelkneri understand the problem with the way the queu works17:00
aelkneryou need to create a new tree out of the queue17:00
replaceafilland the view is just using the queue17:00
replaceafillyes, thats what i did17:00
replaceafilli just go to every "root" message17:00
replaceafilland displayed it17:00
replaceafilland it works17:00
replaceafillbut that was a mock, now i have to write test for it17:01
replaceafillwell, i guess that's all from me17:01
aelkneryour test needs a case where there are more than one queued message on the same branch17:01
aelknerbut i guess you know that17:02
replaceafilllike diferent students?17:02
replaceafillsending messages to the same section17:02
aelknera simple case for one student could be as follows17:02
aelknermessage A by teacher17:02
aelknerrpsonse B to message A17:02
aelknerresponses C and D by teacher and student17:02
aelknerand B and D are both marked as 'needing review'17:03
replaceafilloh yes17:03
replaceafillthat was another question!17:03
aelknerthat would be the test that breaks the current code17:03
replaceafillmessages created by teachers dont need the "need review" button, right_17:03
aelknerthat's the other part of the same bug report17:04
replaceafillyes, last line17:04
aelknerin the current code17:04
aelknerA and B were being marked as 'needing review'17:04
aelknerthat's a bug in itself17:04
aelknerbut it also exposed the redundant branch problem17:05
Lumiereaelkner: btw... we need to get the bugs separated17:05
Lumiere1 bug per report17:05
aelknerin pracctice, yes17:05
aelknerbut for this time, let it get solved as one bug report17:05
replaceafilli understand theres two problems17:05
ignasaelkner: what's the difference ;) replaceafill can do the clicking ;)17:05
aelknerdwelsh already set up the bug report as one bug17:06
replaceafilli know i have to fix the threading first17:06
replaceafilland then the review thing17:06
aelknerbut if replaceafill wants to create two new bug reports and then report them both fixed17:06
aelknerthat's fine17:07
ignasaelkner: it's not the first time when dwelsh creates a bug report that reports 2 bugs/features ;)17:07
aelknertrue, true :)17:07
th1aGetting civilians to write bugs at all is a win.17:07
replaceafilli guess i have no more questions17:08
th1aOK.  Thanks.17:08
LumiereI am good17:09
ignasmerged all the changes (had to scrap the section event booking - quality reasons)17:10
ignasreviewed the code by our german friends17:10
ignaswill have evolution script soo17:10
th1aIs section event booking fixable?17:10
ignastesting with an old database at the moment17:10
ignasth1a: well - it's not like "fixable" the ammount of effort needed to fix it is identical to doing it from scratch17:11
th1aAgh.  What's the problem again?17:11
ignasth1a: the new view is a carbon copy of one of the other views in the system with 2 methods changed17:11
ignasso - it needs to be refactored cleanly17:12
ignasalso - it will not work with any considerable ammount of data i think17:12
ignasthough that needs testing17:12
th1aPerformance-wise, you mean?17:12
th1aThat might be a post-1.0 fix then.17:13
ignaswe'll see, depends on how/when Justas can start working again17:13
th1aDoes CSV import work with the new persons/contacts?17:13
ignashe was on vacation last week apparantly17:13
ignasCSV only sets first name, last name, username, password17:13
ignasso it should be working17:14
ignasxls - includes custom demographics17:14
th1aRight... i meant xls.17:14
ignasi'll have to test it more though17:14
th1aWhat about contacts?17:14
ignasbut last time i tried - it worked17:14
ignascontacts - relationships and relationship views are still not there17:14
ignasbut I want to have it in trunk first17:14
th1aSo if I download the trunk I'll get the updated xls?17:15
ignasnot yet, i must commit the merge first17:15
ignasbut yeah17:15
th1aOK.  Let me know when that's set.17:15
ignaswill do17:16
th1aAnything else?  I think at this point everyone knows what they're working on for a while.17:16
ignasdepending on how much time Justas will have i'll either have him do section resource booking17:17
ignasor section relating among terms17:17
th1aI think we'll all be happier when section linking between terms works.17:18
th1aSo hopefully that.17:18
ignasaelkner: do you have any usecases on the net for linked sections?17:18
aelknernot yet17:18
ignasaelkner: i could use as much information about potential uses of the feature in gradebook17:18
th1aWhat kind of use cases?17:18
ignasth1a: like - having a section span 2 terms, but only get graded once in the end of the last term17:19
aelknerth1a: we're going to use ReportActivities to handle the case of 'grading N times" in this term17:19
aelkneris that right?17:19
ignasN times in one term - yes, i am more concerned about "there are 3 connected sections, but they only get graded once at all"17:20
aelknerzero times in terms one and two17:20
aelkneronce in term three17:20
ignasyeah, if that's ok for you17:20
ignasthen it's not going to be a problem17:21
ignasbeing paranoid i'd like to know of as many possible contraptions as possible ;)17:21
* ignas hates surprises ;)17:21
aelknerth1a has to say if that's a possible scenario he has in mind with using report activities17:21
th1aignas: That's not an important use case.17:21
th1aWe're still going with an extremely lightweight report card generating system.17:22
th1aOur report card system is the web equivalent of passing out pieces of paper.17:22
aelknertake on and pass the pile back17:23
th1aWe'll revise it next year based on complaints.17:23
aelkneralla XP17:23
th1aSome general comments from me:17:23
th1aWe're getting a very nice amount of interest right now.17:24
th1aIt is somewhat hidden because people looking at student information systems don't think "I'll join a mailing list or IRC channel for more info."17:24
th1aThey generally email me or sometimes Welsh.17:24
Lumiereand unfortunately... welsh is a bad choice to be emailed about it17:25
ignasor even me17:25
Lumierehe can answer about cando17:25
th1aBut I think we're on track for a managably small number of real testing sites.17:25
Lumierebut he doesn't understand much about how st itself works (hence the terms arguement fri/sat)17:25
th1aYes... that was a special case too, because terms was a more or less one time reorganization of everything.17:26
th1aBut I'm feeling pretty good about where we are.17:27
th1aSo... good work thus far gentlemen!17:28
th1aKeep it up this week!17:28
Lumiereth1a: that's about where we ended up17:28
th1aaelkner: Send me that invoice today, please.17:28
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:29
aelknerjust hit about to hit the send button17:29
th1aaelkner: Also, it would save me a step if you'd convert that to a PDF yourself.17:29
th1aYou can print it as a pdf.17:29
aelkneryou mean export as pdf, right?17:31
aelknerth1a: are you asking me to export my office doc to pdf and send you that for now oen?17:32
th1aaelkner: Yes.17:32
aelknerth1a: email sent17:33
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* Lumiere seeks web designer ;)18:22
replaceafillignas, what suffix should i use for my branch to change the title of the enrolment view in sections?18:27
ignashmm, section membership view title18:27
ignasi mean - letters don18:28
ignasdon't cost much these days anyway ;)18:28
Lumierein a lot of the world they cost nothing18:28
replaceafilland i should branch trunk, right?18:28
ignasLumiere: if you have more than 80 in one line in my code - you pay blood!18:28
ignasreplaceafill: yeah, trunk will do18:28
Lumiereignas: is that a drop a character?18:29
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LumiereI guess not18:59
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