IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2009-02-04

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aelknerhey ignas18:45
th1ahey aelkner.18:48
th1aDid you take the id field out of those forms yet?18:48
aelknerah, i didn't update the launchpad status18:48
aelkneris that what you were gong to say?18:48
th1aWell, I'm still not 100% convinced it is the right idea.18:50
th1aThere was just an id related bug with the imports that makes me dubious about not being able to set the id manually.18:51
aelkneryou're talking about patching data as a user to get arond a bug in the system18:52
aelknerthat can't be a good strategy18:52
aelknertypically, when a user exposes a bug in a system18:52
aelknerthe developers are put on alert and write patches18:52
ignasth1a: it's the "other" id18:53
aelknerhaving a user patch data to fix problems can only lead to new problems18:53
th1aaelkner: I'm not going to make you change it back... at this point.18:53
aelkneri'm glad for that18:53
aelknerignas: i thought about what would have happened if schooltool.gradebook had NOT used annotations18:54
th1aWhich "other" id?18:54
th1aEditing id's would not work, obviously.18:54
aelknerdo you realize that yoru evolution script to move sections to terms would have broken the gradebook18:55
ignasth1a: aelkner removed the explicit id entry field for courses and some other onbects, but the problem was related to timetable schema id i think18:55
aelkneras it was, the gradebook still works18:55
th1aBut if the user ends up having to use the ids directly, the option of being able to create ones that makes sense can be valuable.18:55
aelknerth1a: we decided that import scripts would be the place for that18:55
ignasaelkner: not really, if you use intids or keyreferences - nothing breaks if I move objects araund18:56
aelknersla imports sections, and i had to allow them to choose the ids18:56
ignasthe id field was more of a "most schools have ID separate from a title, so why not allow them to use the ids"18:56
ignasthrough the web18:57
aelknerbut new section button never allowed them to18:57
ignasyeah, that too18:57
th1aSections almost never have meaningful id's (to humans) courses usually do.18:58
aelknerfor sla, the opposite was the case18:58
aelknerthey needed the section ids to match moodle/drupal18:58
th1a"to humans"18:58
aelknersla doesn't have robots administrating there data18:59
aelknerso i don't get the "to humans" point18:59
th1aAnyhow, we'll leave it as it is for now.  I'm still a bit dubious though.18:59
aelkneryour dubiosity is duly noted19:00
ignaswe're spending too much time discussing this, as changing the id field editing takes like 2-3 hours to do ;)19:00
aelknerignas: back to the secion move19:00
th1aAnyhow, I don't understand what the current import bug is.19:00
ignas"Semester 1","Mark 1"19:01
ignasyou should have "semester_1", "mark_1" or something on that level in there19:01
th1aid's instead of titles?19:01
ignastitles can be identical19:01
ignasok, no "also"19:01
ignashmm, he used a help file19:02
ignasso i'll have to look at it too19:02
ignasok, so - yeah, in the web it should be only giving the "timetable_schema_id"19:03
ignasin the first row19:03
th1aSo if you set up the spreadsheet all at once do you know what the id's will be or are they set by the system?19:03
ignasthe term id is ignored19:03
ignaslet me try creating a timetable schema19:03
aelknerignas: so you're saying that when your evolution script moved the sections to a new container19:05
aelknerthe keyrferences didn't change?19:05
ignasaelkner: yes, which is why with more than 1 term, i did the "magic dance" of moving sections19:06
ignasaelkner: and then copying them19:06
ignasso anything that was refering to the old objects would stay intact19:06
aelknerah, i see19:06
ignasif it's the same object - it's IntId and KeyReference are the same19:06
ignasnow I might have made quite a mistake using int ids instead of keyreferences19:07
ignas(not harmful, but still wrong)19:07
ignasso it might have to get fixed19:07
* ignas will have to see19:07
ignasth1a: yeah - if you enter "Mark 1" as a title for ttschema19:07
ignasth1a: you get a ttschema id "mark-1"19:07
ignasas in - our names chooser kicks in and "fixes" it for you19:08
ignasand the only place you can get the id is the url19:08
ignasthough foreign characters are handled properly19:09
ignasth1a: so yeah, i think we could resolve this during the sprint by adding an ID display or something like that19:10
aelknerignas: what's the latest doc i could look at to prepare for the print?19:10
ignasaelkner: also - keep in mind that Justas is not coming, so we might have to shuffle stuff around a bit19:12
aelknerare demographics still the top priority?19:13
th1aI was thinking we might work on the transition to Storm.19:13
aelknersorry, is that a game reference?19:14
th1aYeah, the object relational mapper, the migration to MySQL, didn't you get the email?19:14
aelknerabout how long ago?19:14
th1aI'm messing with you.19:15
th1aBut Storm is the object relational mapper they use in Launchpad.19:15
th1aThe Launchpad team keeps writing tutorials that use Person and Teacher as objects.  I feel like it is some kind of subtle hint from Mark...19:16
ignaslet's migrate to first19:18
th1aThen we can put our REST skills to use.19:18
ignasth1a: omg you win!19:24
th1aActually I was going to ask you if you could try to reverse-engineer StacklessIO for us based on a careful reading of dev blog posts.19:25
th1aTo speed up performance.19:26
ignasour bottleneck is not IO19:28
th1aIt might be someday. ;-)19:29
th1aOTOH, I shouldn't have you do anything that would make it easier for you to get a job with CCP.19:29
ignasyeah, like moving to Iceland19:30
ignasor Shanghai19:30
th1aOr Atlanta.19:31
* ignas can't get an H1B visa19:32
ignaslack of Bachelor diploma19:32
ignasso Atlanta is safe ;)19:32
ignasand now getting an H1B is probably more or less impossible19:32
ignaswith the crisis and all19:32
th1aWaitasec, my lead developer doesn't have a bachelor's degree?!?19:33
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aelknerignas: a suggestion regarding your 'what shold we do about contact priorities'19:38
aelkneryou kow how the requirements package has Requirement19:38
* ignas knows what ordered containers are19:39
aelknerwhich is nothing more than an ordered version of BtreeContainer19:39
aelkneroh, so?19:39
ignasthe problem is - we either use direct references, thus reimplement bidirectional relationships ourselves19:39
ignasor we use schooltool.relationships19:39
ignasif we use schooltool.relationships - it is very difficult to attach additional information to a relationship19:39
ignasvery very difficut19:40
th1aI don't want to start using requirements strictly as an ordered container -- it should have some meaning as some kind of academic requirement.19:40
ignasth1a: we are talking about priorities of contacts for persons19:40
aelkneri get th1a's point19:41
ignasth1a: if contacts are separate objects, we are not storing them on persons, thus we need some way of attaching one to another19:41
aelknerhe doesn't want to corrupt the meaning of 'Requirement'19:41
ignasth1a: zope3 has it's own OrderedContainer class19:41
ignasand we will use it for extra demographics fields ;)19:41
aelknerthat means that Requirement is completely unnecessary19:42
aelknerit could just as easily subclass OrderedContainer19:42
aelknerhad i known that...19:42
ignasyep, aelkner just suggested me the same approach19:42
aelknerdo you know how old that is?19:43
aelknerperhaps it's newer than stephan's Requirement19:43
aelkneror he would have subclassed it himself i think19:44
th1aMaybe he copy/pasted it into the Zope 3 code.  ;-)19:45
aelkneryeah, maybe19:45
ignaszope3 is 200519:45
th1aRequirement was meant to do more.19:45
aelkneryeah, the inheritance stuff19:45
ignasat least 200519:46
aelknerignas: are you still intending to add the basic data structures for demographics19:47
aelknerby the time of the sprint?19:47
aelkneras you suggest ing your sprint doc?19:47
ignasaelkner: maybe, not sure if i'll make it19:47
* ignas is going through all buildout.cfg and fixing them at the moment19:48
aelknerwhen do you arrive?19:48
ignas20:05 Feb 519:48
aelknerth1a: how about you?19:48
th1aI arrive in Baltimore at... hm... 7 + 12...19:49
aelkneri'll be arriving earlier in the afternoon to work with douglas on his external activities stuff19:49
th1aaelkner: Will you have your car?19:50
th1aCan you pick up ignas?19:50
aelknersure.  where will he be arriving?19:50
ignasTerminal 119:50
aelknerflight info?19:50
ignasInternational Terminal 1 or something like that19:51
ignaslet me look it up19:51
ignasLUFTHANSA - LH 925219:51
th1aMy new cell number is19:51
th1aNot that.19:52
aelkneraren't you silly19:52
aelkneryeah, i already got that programmed into my phone19:52
aelkneryou sent that out prior to our last sprint19:52
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jelkneraelkner and igans: r u here?20:32
aelkneryes, jelkner20:35
aelknerwhat's up20:36
jelkner2 things:20:36
jelkner1. can u give me an idea of what time you will arrive tomorrow?20:36
jelkner2. can you help replaceafill get his code into a branch?20:37
jelkner2 may have to wait20:37
jelknersince the students he is going to meet with are arriving soon20:37
jelkner(perhaps later in the evening)20:37
aelkneri'm not available this evening20:38
aelknerbut for tomorrow, i was plannign on arriving arond 3pm20:38
aelkneras we discussed20:38
jelknerwe never talked about a time, other than "as early as you can get here)20:38
jelknerso 3 pm gives me a better idea20:39
aelknerignas: ayt?20:39
replaceafillaelkner: hi man20:39
aelknerhey replaceafill20:40
replaceafilli hope u can help me with the javascript filtering :)20:40
aelknerwhat do you mean20:40
replaceafilli have both dropdowns20:40
replaceafillto select the source for external activities20:40
replaceafilland to select the external activity20:40
replaceafillthe second one should filter depending on your selection in the first one20:41
aelkneri see20:42
replaceafillyoull see it tomorrow :)20:42
aelknerright, around 3pm20:42
ignasaelkner: i am semi afk most of the time, so just write and i'll answer ;)21:17
aelknerignas: i sent you an email21:20
aelknerwhat does afk stand for?21:20
aelkneroh, away from keyboard21:20
ignas370 <- country code for lithuania21:21
ignasso (370) <REDACTED>21:22
aelknerthat will work in the us?21:22
ignasyou'll be billed as if you called lithuania though21:23
aelknerthat's hard to imagine as cell phones don't bill by call21:23
aelknerat least when we have the contracts that we set up here21:24
ignasin your countr y - maybe21:24
aelknerit's a case where either i can or can't make the call21:24
ignasi'll surely get charged for roaming though21:24
aelknerwell, the only reason i asked for the number was for a backup plan21:24
ignasI have called Tom last pycon successfully, so it works one way ;)21:25
aelknershould we ot see each other as you exit customs21:25
ignasnot sure about the other21:25
aelkneryeah, so you could call me if you don't see me when you exit21:25
aelknerdon't forget to add my number to you cell phone21:25
ignasdid that already21:26
aelknerso if your plane arrives at 8:00, you'll probably clear customs around 9:0021:27
aelkneris that you experience when traveling to the us?21:28
ignasyeah, something around that21:28
ignas40-60 minutes21:28
ignasdepends on how busy it is21:28
aelknerok, i'll try to be standing at the exit around 8:40 then21:29
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th1aOh, where am I meeting you guys then?  Career Center?21:38
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aelknerif th1a arrives at the career center around 8:00, will be be able to get in?21:45
aelknerth1a: if so, i'm sure jelkner could be found in his classroom at that time21:46
th1aIs that where you'll be?21:46
aelkneri'll be on route to picking up ignas21:46
aelknerunless you arrive there before 8:0021:46
th1aWhere are you going then?21:46
aelknerbut yes, that's where i'll be until i leave for dulles21:46
aelknergood question21:47
aelknerlet's see what jelkner has to say21:47
th1aI guess it is either the Career Center or the hotel.21:47
aelknerwe have each other's cells21:47
aelknerso we can work things out after you arrive21:48
th1aWhat's yours?21:48
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