IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2009-01-07

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jelknerfsufitch: good evening!02:05
fsufitchjelkner: hi02:06
fsufitchwat's up?02:06
jelknerfsufitch: we need to get you and ccarey to coordinate with dwelsh your trip to philly02:21
fsufitchi was gonna ask you guys what we're doing xD02:22
jelknerhere is how i imagine it will go:02:22
jelkneryou (and/or chris) will get one of your parents to drop you off at ACC early friday morning02:23
jelkner(around 8 am)02:36
jelknerthen you leave with dave and jason and drive to philly02:36
jelknersomeone picks you up on Sunday evening02:37
jelkneraround 9 pm02:37
fsufitchsounds fun02:37
fsufitchfri 23 jan rite?02:38
fsufitchor was it 3002:38
fsufitchi rememberd 27 for some reason02:38
fsufitchbut that's a tue02:38
fsufitchyeah i was too lazy to go the page XD02:39
fsufitchdo we get listed on the schedule/events?02:40
fsufitchor are we so small we dont matter?02:40
jelknerwe need to have a pre discussion about what goals you have for tjTalk02:40
fsufitchi need to get two things done before the conference02:41
fsufitch1. bookmarking questions02:41
fsufitch2. the search02:41
fsufitch2 is the hardest02:41
fsufitchand btw, any writing on tjTalk we do will have to be in a separate branch that I will merge into the trunk later02:41
fsufitchbecause i'm not allowed to use outside help coding my school proj02:42
fsufitchthat, or i'll transfer tjtalk to a school branch02:42
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jelknerfsufitch: i'm glad you brought that up02:43
jelknerbecause we need to have a clear plan for working around that02:44
jelkneri have an idea02:44
jelknerwhat about focusing on the integration with the schooltool gradebook?02:44
jelknerthat is not part of your project02:44
fsufitchjelkner: no it is not02:47
fsufitchso we can do that :)02:47
fsufitchsry for delay, i had to take a call from the president of tj nhs about nhssl :)02:48
jelknerhow are they liking it?02:49
fsufitchwe're actually just launching it tomorrow02:49
jelknerah, good02:49
jelknerplease let me know how it goes02:49
fsufitchyup yup02:49
fsufitchthey love the whole design02:49
fsufitchyet to see how it'll work live ;)02:49
jelknerbtw. have you heard from aaron schuetz?02:49
jelkneryorktown is in their second year using it02:50
jelknerand they really like it02:50
jelknerso i expect you won't have too many problems02:50
fsufitchit looks pretty stable02:50
jelknercertainly none that you can't handle ;-)02:50
fsufitchheh :-P02:50
fsufitchi did make a separate branch for the tjhsst version though, if u saw02:50
fsufitchbecause we need 3, not 2 types of activities02:51
jelknerthat's what aaron wanted to know02:51
fsufitchand different names02:51
jelknerwhat changes you needed02:51
fsufitchif our changes will influence his stuff?02:51
fsufitchthe changes were02:51
jelkneri'll put you in touch with him again02:51
jelkneri don't want to be in the middle of that02:51
fsufitchbefore: there were individual and group activities02:51
jelknerand now?02:52
fsufitchwe need: nhs-sponsored, in-school, and individual out of school02:52
fsufitch(or something close to that in names)02:52
fsufitchit's the way our chapter works02:52
fsufitchi dunno02:52
jelknera few more use cases like that and it would be time to implement configurable activity types02:53
jelknerso we start with two branches02:53
jelknerand see later if there is a way later to write code that handles both cases02:54
jelknerok, i need to run02:54
jelknerfsufitch: i'm putting you in charge of getting in touch with ccarey02:55
jelkneri've got a lot on my plate02:55
jelkneri'll email everyone the schedule now that we have worked it out02:55
fsufitchhe's on my bus02:55
fsufitchso it's okay02:55
jelknerbut i'm leaving implementation to you02:55
fsufitchhave a nice evening02:56
jelknersay hi for me02:56
jelknerand talk to you soon02:56
fsufitchu too02:56
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replaceafillignas, the context to a ivocabularyfactory call changes according to the view, right?15:35
replaceafillignas, btw, good morning :)15:36
ignasreplaceafill: good morning :D15:36
ignasreplaceafill: yeah, it changes according to the view15:36
ignasreplaceafill: which is why we do detection "is it person or person container" in some sources15:36
replaceafillignas, so detection is ok, right?15:37
ignasso we could use the same source for both add and edit forms15:37
ignaswell, most of the time it is, you can use different sources for add and edit forms15:37
replaceafilli've been using some ifs and didnt feel confortable15:37
ignasso you would not need detection15:37
ignasif you want15:37
replaceafillbtw, the integration now works15:38
ignaswhich is Ok too, though you will need 2 different interfaces for form definition, or have to set up form fields manually in each form15:38
ignasintegration of what?15:38
replaceafillschooltool.gradebook with external activities15:38
replaceafilldid U write demographics?15:39
ignasreplaceafill: which one?15:49
replaceafilli mean the package15:50
ignasnot my fault15:50
ignasdon't use it anyway15:50
ignaslook at SLA demographics15:50
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replaceafillignas, i need ASCII tokens for my terms15:51
replaceafillany example in schooltool?15:52
ignaslike another ID15:52
ignasyou want an additional ASCII field in term15:52
ignaslike extend terms15:52
ignasso terms would have Title, Description, __name__ and some ASCII token15:53
replaceafilli always use SimpleTerm15:53
ignasyou mean non -schooltool terms15:54
ignasbut terms as in Vocabulary terms15:54
replaceafillah sorry, i didnt remember the word term15:54
replaceafillhas meaning in st15:54
ignasso you need tokens, what about them?15:54
ignasi mean - what's the problem?15:56
replaceafilli mean, activities have __name__ attributes, right? they're numbers15:57
replaceafilli guess it's safe to use that as a token for a term representing activities15:58
ignasi'd guess so too16:01
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replaceafillignas, what's the best way to detect the viewmeta.+ object?19:23
ignasreplaceafill: emm, no idea19:23
ignasreplaceafill: do two different forms and 2 sources19:23
ignasi'd just not use the adding views19:23
replaceafillthe <addform..> directive looked old :)19:24
ignasit is old19:25
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jelknerreplaceafil: hey man!22:00
jelkneri mean, replaceafill22:00
replaceafillmr. elkner22:00
jelknerwhich one?22:01
jelknerthere are 222:01
replaceafillthe older one ;)22:01
jelknerso, let's talk22:01
aelknerthe jelkner one22:01
replaceafillhey aelkner22:02
jelknerwhat do we need to do to get me using cando with schooltool gradebook?22:02
aelknerfirst of all, i need to see what replaceafill did with his gradebook branch22:02
aelknerreplaceafill: first question, why do you 'replace' New Wroksheet' with 'New Activity22:26
replaceafillu mean the title of the anchor?22:26
aelknerthe ancjor22:26
aelknerhow does one create new worksheets if you got rid of the anchor for it?22:27
replaceafillu sure?22:27
aelkneri'm just gong by the diff22:27
replaceafilli mean, u sure i got rid of the anchor22:27
aelkneri looked at the file, and it is there, higher up22:28
aelknerbut your diff suggests that it was at line 4522:28
aelknerthat's weird22:29
aelknerdid you add it there by accident befoer changing it22:30
aelknercan you explain the diff?22:30
aelknerthe red part i mean22:31
replaceafillopening it22:31
replaceafillthis was before:22:31
replaceafillwell the red part, right?22:32
replaceafillcheck the content of the "old" anchor22:32
replaceafillit says "NEW ACTIVITY"22:32
replaceafillthat's the link that lets you add a New Activity22:32
replaceafillit had its title wrong :)22:32
replaceafillNew Worksheet is alive and safe22:33
jelknerreplaceafill: from where does upgrade grades get its data?22:33
aelkneroh, the title doesn't impact the view, so we never caught it until you did, right?22:33
jelkneris that the mock you were talking about?22:33
replaceafilljelkner, yes22:33
replaceafillaelkner, yes22:33
aelkneri was going to get to that next22:34
aelknerso why should the user need to update the external activity grades manually22:34
aelknerwe already have an update button in the gradebook22:34
aelknerwhy would that button do the work of updating the grades for ALL external activities22:34
replaceafillgood idea!22:35
replaceafillthe Update button in the gradebook should Update All External Activities22:35
aelkneri'm sure jelkner would prefer that22:35
replaceafilljelkner, thoughts?22:35
jelkneri wouldn't22:35
jelknerfor the reasons we talked about this morning22:36
jelknerwe need to make it difficult to accidentally update an external activity22:36
jelkneror teachers will mess things up on a regular basis22:37
jelkneri'm about to submit 2 bugs:22:37
aelknerbut jelkner, you want the integration to be seemless for the user22:37
aelknerthat means, they change the data in cando22:37
aelknerand then it gets reflected in schooltool with minimal user intervention22:38
jelknerat first i thought so22:38
aelkneradmittedly, one button need to be pushed22:38
jelknerafter our discussion at the sprint i realized i was wrong22:38
jelknerthe problem lies with the way that competencies are dynamic and grades are fixed22:38
jelknerimagine this happening:22:39
jelknerjohnny gets a D on his report card22:39
jelknerhis parents are pissed and schedule an appointment to come in and see me (his teacher -- this is not meant to be a likely story ;-)22:39
jelkneri pull up my gradebook to show them22:40
jelknerand low and behold, johnny has a C22:40
jelknerhow did that happen?22:40
jelknerthis would be a big problem22:40
aelkneri understand22:40
aelknerthe timing of the update is important22:40
aelknerand if it were automatic22:40
aelknerit would be bad22:40
jelknervery bad22:40
aelknerreplaceafill: that means you don't need to change anything about that, yey!22:41
replaceafillaelkner, damn! i wanted to :D22:41
jelknerso, while i have the two of you22:42
jelknercan i run these bug by you before i file them?22:42
jelknerbug1: Identifier (optional) should not appear to the teacher at all22:43
jelknerbug2: some big yellow warning should be given to anyone who tries to create two activities with the same name22:43
replaceafillaelkner, do u know if the optional identifier is used in the activities? i guess it comes from the old form machinery, right?22:44
jelknerwhat do you think?22:44
aelknerjelkner: bug1 makes sense22:44
aelknerbug2 needs to not allow it at all, rather than warning22:44
jelkneri'm down with that22:44
aelknerthat woudl go for changing activites as well22:45
aelknerboth views would need the same code22:45
jelknerit is interesting that this bug became apparent with the new machinery replaceafill just added22:45
aelknerand the error message could be 'Activity Name already in use'22:45
aelknerso that's how i'd write it up22:46
jelknersince there are only a small number of possible names for external activities (you get them from a drop down, you don't enter them)22:46
jelkneri stumbled on this bug right away22:46
jelkner(confirming once again that I'm the best damed idiot user around these parts! ;-)22:47
replaceafillah come on man22:47
aelkneri'm confused, how are you using replaceafill's branch?22:47
jelknerhe has a test machine22:47
replaceafillaelkner, it's the httpcaller in the functional test :)22:48
replaceafillthe debug procedure u taugth me22:48
aelknerso you have to have the functional test running?22:48
aelknerthat's funny22:49
aelknerbut i see that it does the trick for jelkner to see what you're doing22:49
jelknerand find bugs22:49
replaceafillwhat's that phrase: poor man's .... something22:50
aelkneryeah, poor man's something something, sure that's it :)22:51
jelknerok, bugs are filed.22:56
jelkneraelkner: should i assign these to you?22:57
jelkneri made both priorities medium22:59
jelknerbut the duplicate one really has a higher priority23:00
jelkneri would think23:00
jelknerwell, since activities can be removed23:00
jelknerthe app is still perfectly usable with both bugs intact23:00
aelknerreplaceafill: i just checked out your branch and tried to run the tests, and it fails on line 66 of the ftests23:15
replaceafillu sure u have my branch?23:16
replaceafillthat line had trouble before23:16
replaceafilli reported it to ignas and he fixed it23:16
replaceafillbefore i pulled the trunk23:16
aelknerso you pulled the trunk, but did you commit the changes to your branch?23:17
replaceafilli have the new line here23:17
aelknerso why do i get the problem?23:18
aelkneri just checked out your branch23:18
aelknerso i should have the latest23:18
aelknerwhy don't i?23:18
aelkneri just did the checkout now23:18
replaceafilli'm checking revision 523:19
replaceafillof my branch23:19
replaceafillit's the latest23:20
replaceafillmaybe u need to pull the other branches?23:21
aelknerwhy would i need to do that?23:21
aelknerif you have a branch that works, i should just use that23:21
replaceafilli'm using rev 5 and that test pass here23:22
aelknerso i'm not sure what you're saying i shold do23:24
aelknerreplaceafill: ?23:25
replaceafillwhy don't you go to the schooltool branch and make "bzr pull"23:25
replaceafilli remember i had the same error with the lyceum.journal too23:26
aelknerwhat schooltool branch?23:26
replaceafillin order to get a sandbox u need four branches, right?23:26
aelkneroh, you did this in a sandbox23:26
replaceafillschooltool.gradebook, schooltool.lyceum.journal, schooltool23:26
replaceafillis that bad?23:26
aelkneri was just using your branch by itself23:26
aelknerno, it's not bad23:27
replaceafilli followed the procedure u taught me :)23:27
aelkneri just didn't want to set up yet another sandbox, but i guess i'll have to23:27
aelknerthis will take a couple of hours23:28
replaceafillyes, lp is really slow23:28
replaceafillalkner, is it time for touching cando?23:29
replaceafillafter you review my code of course23:30
aelkneryou'll need to svn copy to a branch of your own23:34
replaceafilli have never used the "copy" command23:35
aelknerme neither23:36
aelkneri don't know if you have access either23:36
replaceafilli dont think so23:36
aelknerhow about sending jason straw a note asking him to do it for you23:36
aelknerreplaceafill: i built the new sandbox, funny how quickly lp was23:38
replaceafillyesterday took me 3 hours!!!23:38
replaceafillto get the damn sandbox23:38
aelknermaybe they fixed something on lp23:41
replaceafilldid the ftest pass?23:41
aelkneryes, now that i used the sandbox :)23:42
aelknerso did you set up a separate sandbox for the instance that jelkner uses?23:43
aelknerso that you could aadd the httpcall?23:43
replaceafillno, it's the same sandbox23:43
replaceafilli just add the httpcaller at the end of the ftest23:43
replaceafilland the i revert it23:44
aelknerso it's only temporarily available to jelkner anytime he asks to look at it?23:44
replaceafillhe wants it on his production instance!!23:45
replaceafillhe says "he'll test it by using it"23:45
aelkneri see23:45
replaceafillaelkner, one question23:46
replaceafillexternal activities should be available in a vocabulary23:46
replaceafillfor using a choice field23:46
replaceafilli dont know how to create a token for it23:47
aelkneri saw you ask ignas about this earlier23:47
replaceafilli mean for every term23:47
aelknerand i've looked at your stubs23:47
replaceafilli thought about the __name__ attribute23:47
aelknerbut i couldn't tell you how that stuff works23:47
aelkneri just follow examples23:47
aelknerbut let's think about this together23:48
aelknerwhat are you needing to acomplish specifically?23:48
replaceafilla term needs a value (the external activity), a title (the external activity title) and a token (?)23:48
replaceafillthe token has to be an ascii string23:48
replaceafillso i cannot use the external activity title23:49
replaceafillbecause it's unicode23:49
aelkneri haven't had a chance to look at the app running, just your tests23:49
aelknerare you saying23:49
replaceafillsometimes i see people using the id() function23:49
aelknerthat you don't have a pulldown for the external activities?23:49
replaceafillin my projects i use the intid utility23:50
replaceafillyes i do23:50
replaceafillthe problem is the token23:50
aelknerbut your tests pass23:50
replaceafill<option value="token_goes_here">Title goes here</option>23:50
replaceafillbecause i crafted them23:50
replaceafill(if that's the right expression)23:50
aelknerwhat file?23:51
replaceafillhold on23:51
replaceafillthe end of the file23:52
replaceafillmethod getTerm23:52
replaceafillgetValue is innefficient too23:52
aelknerbut it works, right?23:54
aelknerusing SimpleTerm as you do23:54
replaceafillyes but it's not safe23:54
replaceafillif somebody sets a title like u"Este niño está bien"23:54
replaceafillcould fail23:55
replaceafillbecause the unicode caracters23:55
aelknerwhat would be the failure23:55
aelknerisn't everything unicode?23:55
aelknerso comparisons should succeed23:56
replaceafilli guess the vocabulary specification says that the token has to be an ASCII string23:56
aelknertell you what23:56
replaceafillbeing ascii you have guaranteed that will be the same in every browser23:56
aelknerlet's table that for now23:56
aelknerjelkner's the only one using it at first23:57
replaceafilli you use unicode, the browser encoding can bite u23:57
aelknerand he can avoid bad unicode chars23:57
aelknerthat could be a bug to fix later23:57
aelknerafter we've gotten everything integrated23:57
replaceafilli'll write jstraw asking for the branch23:58
replaceafillthanks alan23:58
aelkneralmost finished reviewing you diffs23:59
aelknerat revision 523:59

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