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| aelkner | wjohnsto: http://apidoc.zope.org/++apidoc++/Code/zope/interface/declarations/alsoProvides/index.html | 04:33 |
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| th1a | hi ignas. | 16:30 |
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| ignas | th1a: hi | 16:31 |
| th1a | How are things coming? | 16:31 |
| ignas | quite well | 16:31 |
| ignas | found or resolved most of the release related problems already | 16:32 |
| ignas | working on term | 16:32 |
| ignas | s | 16:32 |
| ignas | schoolyearcontainer/ schoolyear/ term constraints mostly at the moment | 16:32 |
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| ignas | adding the verification for overlapping, going beyond limits etc. | 16:33 |
| ignas | trying out a new testing strategy | 16:33 |
| ignas | our release machinery was completely broken last week | 16:33 |
| th1a | ? | 16:33 |
| ignas | by a weird python2.4 bug | 16:34 |
| ignas | that builder has managed to reproduce with 100% reliability | 16:34 |
| ignas | had to patch python2.4 on schooltool.org manually to restore releases to a working state | 16:34 |
| th1a | Huh. | 16:34 |
| th1a | What kind of bug? | 16:34 |
| ignas | builder is running a lot of subprocesses, like bzr up, bzr ci, dpkg-buildbackage and so on | 16:35 |
| ignas | and python2.4 and actually python2.5 have a problem with some processes in some cases | 16:35 |
| ignas | http://mg.pov.lt/blog/subprocess-in-2.4.html | 16:35 |
| ignas | somewhat insane problem, that brought whole release process down | 16:36 |
| th1a | Ah. | 16:36 |
| ignas | but Marius helped me to diagnose + solve it | 16:36 |
| ignas | as for testing - I am trying out one of the ideas that Martijn Faassen told me about in europython | 16:37 |
| ignas | setting up a full functional test fixture, and writing unit tests in that environment | 16:37 |
| ignas | which seems to be very productive, while giving me full test coverage which you can't get with just functional tests | 16:38 |
| th1a | I see. | 16:39 |
| th1a | As doctests? | 16:39 |
| ignas | yes, I only write doctests | 16:39 |
| * ignas is trying to find ways to reduce the difficulty threshold for writing unit tests for schooltool | 16:39 | |
| th1a | More testing productivity is always good. | 16:39 |
| ignas | because one of the problems with cando testing, and with schooltool testing is that less experienced developers | 16:40 |
| ignas | are finding it just too difficult to set everything up so they could test some complicated code | 16:40 |
| th1a | Where are your new style tests? | 16:40 |
| ignas | well - you do your common unit tests, but you are using the functional test fixutre | 16:41 |
| ignas | so if you are testing a view | 16:41 |
| ignas | for example | 16:41 |
| ignas | you just add the objects you need into an actual application | 16:41 |
| ignas | and create an actual view | 16:41 |
| ignas | which means that all the adapters, and all the related objects are there already | 16:41 |
| th1a | I mean where in the source tree? Under terms? | 16:41 |
| ignas | oh | 16:41 |
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| ignas | they will be under "schoolyear" | 16:42 |
| th1a | In a branch now? | 16:42 |
| ignas | as soon as I will have the bare minimum of the functionality working | 16:42 |
| ignas | yes | 16:42 |
| ignas | i'll publish the branch today after the meeting | 16:42 |
| ignas | if everything will work out ok, i'll make it easier for others to set up their tests that way | 16:43 |
| ignas | i want to eat the dogfood myself first ;) | 16:43 |
| th1a | Cool. | 16:43 |
| ignas | and see what problems might arise | 16:43 |
| ignas | and whether it is feasible to do it that way at all | 16:43 |
| ignas | (it just seems too good at the moment, so i want to find out - what's wrong with it ;) | 16:44 |
| ignas | before fully committing to it | 16:44 |
| th1a | I noticed LP PPA is trying to build intrepid packages for us. | 16:45 |
| ignas | one package | 16:45 |
| ignas | because I have mistakenly uploaded it to interpid | 16:45 |
| th1a | Ah. | 16:45 |
| ignas | i will upload others soon, because I got the script that jinty sent me working | 16:46 |
| th1a | OK. Good. | 16:46 |
| ignas | and it really makes the procedure of synchronising different distributions more sane | 16:46 |
| ignas | so as soon as jinty replies to my last email | 16:46 |
| ignas | and we agree upon the procedure | 16:46 |
| ignas | i'll release to interpid | 16:46 |
| ignas | and synchronize gutsy + hardy | 16:47 |
| ignas | now I have an actual idea how to do it properly in the long term | 16:47 |
| th1a | Good. | 16:48 |
| ignas | that's kind of it, coding terms, debugging python/Zope3 and launchpad | 16:48 |
| ignas | now i am done with debuging, and only doing terms ;) | 16:49 |
| th1a | That is progress. | 16:49 |
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| ignas | oh, mgedmin has produced a nice checklist for code review | 16:49 |
| ignas | that i will steal and publish next to schooltool developer docs ;) | 16:49 |
| th1a | Nice. | 16:50 |
| th1a | I think I'm going to have to pick out some bugs to work on. I'm kind of in a management lull here. | 16:50 |
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| ignas | well - you can solve the first time user experience problem | 16:51 |
| ignas | at least on paper | 16:51 |
| th1a | That is true. | 16:51 |
| ignas | it's something that I can't really do... | 16:52 |
| ignas | aelkner, yvl: how's the sprint going | 16:53 |
| ignas | ? | 16:53 |
| th1a | It'll be a little easier to work out when the new site management organization lands. | 16:53 |
| th1a | aelkner: Oh, you're here. | 16:53 |
| aelkner | it's going great | 16:53 |
| aelkner | we had to overhaul competencies again! | 16:53 |
| aelkner | it's all becuase of how they are delivered from Virginia | 16:54 |
| ignas | th1a: will do that as soon as I can, it'll be the first view after the "add school year" one | 16:54 |
| * th1a didn't see aelkner come in. | 16:54 | |
| aelkner | i snuck in :) | 16:54 |
| aelkner | it's a long story about the compentencies | 16:54 |
| aelkner | but we will be able to make the adjustment while we're here | 16:54 |
| aelkner | and it will actaully make sense with the data they are giving us to import | 16:55 |
| aelkner | Justus is way ahead of schedule | 16:55 |
| th1a | Can you give us a quick explanation of the competency changes? | 16:55 |
| aelkner | well, the competency tree that the state gives us | 16:56 |
| aelkner | organizes competencies into groups as you know | 16:56 |
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| aelkner | but the problem is, the comps that are found in those groups are not unique | 16:56 |
| aelkner | nice to find that out at this stage | 16:56 |
| th1a | Some are in multiple groups? | 16:56 |
| aelkner | yeah, Algebra one and two could have the same comp | 16:57 |
| aelkner | one reuired and one not | 16:57 |
| th1a | I see. | 16:57 |
| aelkner | required | 16:57 |
| aelkner | so we had to redesign comps to be comp references | 16:57 |
| th1a | Gotcha. | 16:57 |
| aelkner | and have the global ids be a dictionary that maps to comp descriptions | 16:58 |
| aelkner | the comp tree then is a tree of references to those global ids | 16:58 |
| aelkner | each reference has id, global id, required flag | 16:58 |
| th1a | So does this affect gradebook? | 16:58 |
| aelkner | well, yes, but not too badly | 16:59 |
| aelkner | we just need to change everywhere that uses comps | 16:59 |
| aelkner | to use the comp refs instead | 16:59 |
| aelkner | and when the need to get the desciption arrises | 16:59 |
| aelkner | we look it up in the global id dict | 16:59 |
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| aelkner | lots of little changes | 16:59 |
| th1a | We haven't gotten rid of the inheritance code yet though, right? | 16:59 |
| aelkner | but nothing too bad | 16:59 |
| aelkner | inheritence is gone from cando but not requirements | 17:00 |
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| aelkner | so even though cando uses requirements | 17:00 |
| aelkner | it doesn't use that feature | 17:00 |
| ignas | so no more database corruption issues? | 17:00 |
| aelkner | definitely | 17:00 |
| ignas | good! | 17:01 |
| aelkner | yeah! | 17:01 |
| aelkner | anyway | 17:01 |
| aelkner | we had a good meeting to start the sprint | 17:01 |
| aelkner | that had the double benefit of triaging the bugs | 17:01 |
| aelkner | and getting Justus up to speed | 17:01 |
| aelkner | and last year's interns have been fixing many bugs already | 17:02 |
| aelkner | today we will meet with Lee Capps | 17:02 |
| aelkner | the guy from the state of Virginia | 17:02 |
| aelkner | and we will discuss the whole data import/export issue | 17:02 |
| aelkner | as well as our discovery about the comps | 17:02 |
| aelkner | the outstanding issues are: | 17:03 |
| aelkner | 1) fixing bugs | 17:03 |
| aelkner | 2) overhauling the comps | 17:03 |
| aelkner | 3) working out what needs to be imported/exported | 17:03 |
| aelkner | 4) demographics | 17:04 |
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| aelkner | 5) reports | 17:04 |
| aelkner | we won't have everything done by the end of the sprint | 17:04 |
| aelkner | but we will be most of the way there | 17:04 |
| aelkner | adn Justus and Filip will be able to get us the rest of the way there soon after | 17:05 |
| aelkner | so that's it | 17:05 |
| th1a | Sounds good. | 17:06 |
| th1a | How are you feeling about the approaching SLA deadline? | 17:06 |
| aelkner | a bit tight, but I'll just have to burn the midnight oil | 17:07 |
| aelkner | i'm going to need to steal away some hours here, but that can be hard | 17:08 |
| th1a | I think you'd better make a point of doing that. | 17:08 |
| th1a | It sounds like things are pretty under control on the CanDo side. | 17:08 |
| aelkner | yeah, after we get these comps overhaulsed | 17:09 |
| aelkner | which i expect to have done today | 17:09 |
| aelkner | i'll steal away some time tomorrow and Thursday | 17:09 |
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| th1a | Are you going home Friday? | 17:10 |
| aelkner | Thursday night | 17:10 |
| th1a | OK. Good. | 17:11 |
| th1a | Is jelkner at the sprint? | 17:12 |
| jelkner | sort of | 17:12 |
| jelkner | i'm here in the building | 17:12 |
| jelkner | but working in my new office | 17:12 |
| th1a | How did things wrap up in El Salvador? | 17:14 |
| jelkner | great | 17:14 |
| jelkner | i'm working with douglas on a grok project now | 17:14 |
| jelkner | and he will be setting up schooltool for the school in perulapia | 17:14 |
| jelkner | i setup a vm for him to use to do that | 17:14 |
| th1a | What grok project? | 17:15 |
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| jelkner | he has a cms he wrote for the cdc which he calls viejo | 17:16 |
| jelkner | means "old man" in honor of his father | 17:16 |
| jstraw | mgedmin: can I get the admin passwords for cando lists on schooltool.org reset for me? I forgot to change em the first time and don't have the right passwords anymore | 17:17 |
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| th1a | jelkner: Are you doing something with viejo? | 17:17 |
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| mgedmin | jstraw: don't think so | 17:18 |
| jstraw | hmm | 17:18 |
| jelkner | th1a: yes | 17:18 |
| jelkner | we are talking with two community organization in northern virginia about using it | 17:18 |
| mgedmin | jstraw: in theory I probably could, but I've no idea how to do that | 17:18 |
| jstraw | ah | 17:19 |
| mgedmin | I have admin access to all the other lists, but not these two | 17:19 |
| mgedmin | who set them up? | 17:19 |
| mgedmin | jinty? | 17:19 |
| jstraw | maybe | 17:19 |
| jstraw | I don't have those logs anymore | 17:19 |
| ignas | th1a: oh, as for interpid - yes we are building packages on interpid from now on | 17:21 |
| ignas | th1a: releasing packages on the "newest possible distribution" makes more sense | 17:21 |
| th1a | ignas: Of course. | 17:21 |
| ignas | because then you can have a cut off point | 17:21 |
| ignas | when backporting | 17:21 |
| ignas | so we will be releasing for interpid, and then backport the package to -> hardy -> gutsy | 17:22 |
| ignas | so we can cut off unsupported distributions in the future | 17:22 |
| ignas | just by not backporting packages anymore | 17:22 |
| jstraw | we should attempt to keep updates for the same length of time | 17:22 |
| jstraw | as Ubuntu? | 17:22 |
| ignas | yeah, we will, maybe even longer | 17:22 |
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| th1a | Our users will be conservative. | 17:23 |
| th1a | I hope. | 17:23 |
| ignas | just that - the direction should be newest -> oldest not oldest -> newest or even gutsy <- hardy -> interpid | 17:23 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:23 |
| th1a | OK... any last words? | 17:24 |
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| ignas | have a nice week ;) | 17:25 |
| th1a | Indeed. Have a good sprint in Arlington! | 17:26 |
| jstraw | thanks | 17:26 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:26 | |
| aelkner | ignas: do you remember why this happens? | 18:00 |
| aelkner | svn: Can't create directory '/svn/cando/db/transactions/1401-1.txn': Permission denied | 18:00 |
| aelkner | it only starting happening just now | 18:00 |
| aelkner | an hour ago it was fine | 18:00 |
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| ignas | well - no idea, maybe someone changed permissions on cando svn repository | 18:11 |
| *** jstraw has joined #schooltool | 18:11 | |
| ignas | write an email to jinty | 18:11 |
| ignas | or ask mgedmin to look at it | 18:11 |
| aelkner | jstraw is looking into it | 18:11 |
| jstraw | ask mgedmin/jinty | 18:11 |
| mgedmin | wheee! | 18:11 |
| jstraw | they'll know better what it is | 18:11 |
| mgedmin | you poor people use the bsddb backend! | 18:11 |
| mgedmin | that's crazy!!! | 18:11 |
| mgedmin | switch to fsfs asap | 18:12 |
| jstraw | it's like 4 years old... | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | before your db dies and goes to database hell | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | do you have backups, at least? | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | never trust bsddb | 18:12 |
| jstraw | uh... I have no idea | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | which server is this on? | 18:12 |
| ignas | schooltool.org i think | 18:12 |
| jstraw | tigris | 18:12 |
| jstraw | yea schooltool.org | 18:13 |
| mgedmin | my mistake | 18:13 |
| mgedmin | it's fsfs | 18:13 |
| jstraw | lol | 18:13 |
| mgedmin | I thought umask screwups didn't happen with fsfs | 18:13 |
| mgedmin | right | 18:14 |
| mgedmin | if your username is also 'jstraw' there, then you simply don't have commit access | 18:14 |
| mgedmin | and a simple 'sudo adduser jstraw cando' would fix it | 18:15 |
| mgedmin | (run by someone who has root on tigris) | 18:15 |
| jstraw | it's aelkner | 18:16 |
| jstraw | who had cando commit access | 18:16 |
| jstraw | until about 2 hrs ago | 18:16 |
| mgedmin | 'sudo adduser aelkner cando' then | 18:18 |
| jstraw | can ignas? | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | because currently only these folks can write to the repository: tvon,pcardune,jelkner,jinty,www-data,ignas | 18:18 |
| jstraw | odd | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | maybe aelkner used to write through https:// | 18:18 |
| ignas | maybe you have been using https checkout | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | and now switched to svn+ssh:// ? | 18:18 |
| ignas | and switched it to svn+ssh ? | 18:18 |
| aelkner | ah | 18:19 |
| * mgedmin mumbles something about gread minds | 18:19 | |
| jstraw | gread? | 18:19 |
| aelkner | maybe i got confused using ssh for schooltool | 18:19 |
| ignas | grape! | 18:19 |
| aelkner | and i shoudl be using https for cando | 18:19 |
| jstraw | yep that'd be it | 18:19 |
| aelkner | grape? | 18:19 |
| mgedmin | it's silly for someone to have an ssh account and write access through https, and yet not have write access through ssh | 18:20 |
| ignas | yes, like in "grape idea!" | 18:20 |
| aelkner | haha | 18:20 |
| jstraw | mgedmin: yes it is, but I can't control that | 18:20 |
| aelkner | nust be a brittish thing | 18:20 |
| wjohnsto | nust be... | 18:20 |
| mgedmin | jstraw: can you control who gets commit access through https? | 18:20 |
| jstraw | lol | 18:20 |
| jstraw | yes | 18:20 |
| mgedmin | I don't remember where that is configured | 18:21 |
| jstraw | and he has it | 18:21 |
| jstraw | etc cando | 18:21 |
| * mgedmin thinks | 18:22 | |
| mgedmin | a cron script would be nice, to parse /etc/cando/cando_committer_pwd_digest and add/remove users to/from the 'cando' group | 18:24 |
| jstraw | ok aelkner for now... svn switch --relocate svn+ssh://blah https://svn.schooltool.org/cando/... | 18:26 |
| jstraw | (that has to be cleaned... before you do it) | 18:26 |
| jstraw | ignas may know more about the command | 18:26 |
| aelkner | i switched to https and i'm back up and running | 18:27 |
| aelkner | thanks to all | 18:27 |
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| wbrady | fsufitch: look at the message I left for bug #253348 | 20:57 |
| fsufitch | wbrady: alright | 20:57 |
| fsufitch | wbrady: jstraw himself said that the "All" option is invalid for the section gradebook | 20:58 |
| jstraw | yes | 20:58 |
| fsufitch | also he said in a launchpad comment that i need to remove the group choosing altogether from the student gradebook | 20:59 |
| jstraw | all is not valid for section level | 20:59 |
| wbrady | what? | 20:59 |
| jstraw | and there is no group chooser for student gradebook | 20:59 |
| jstraw | all is too large | 20:59 |
| wbrady | no thats not right | 20:59 |
| jstraw | 119 comps <-> is a problem | 20:59 |
| wbrady | you certainly are not supposed to only see all the competencies when you see an individual student's gradebook | 21:00 |
| wbrady | option for each competency group in the student gradebook is valid | 21:00 |
| jstraw | I see no reason not to | 21:00 |
| wbrady | 119 comps remember? | 21:00 |
| fsufitch | jstraw, wbrady: the killer thing between having All and individual comp grp, is that with the All, you need a significantly different template and browser c lass | 21:00 |
| fsufitch | and t hat's a PAIN to code | 21:01 |
| fsufitch | i just did, for the student gradebook | 21:01 |
| jstraw | ask welsh | 21:01 |
| wbrady | yea need to ask welsh | 21:01 |
| fsufitch | lol | 21:02 |
| fsufitch | independent judge XD | 21:02 |
| wbrady | i will give you that seeing all comp groups at once in the section gradebook is too much, but seeing each comp group individually from the student gradebook is important | 21:02 |
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