IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2008-08-05

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th1ahi ignas.16:30
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ignasth1a: hi16:31
th1aHow are things coming?16:31
ignasquite well16:31
ignasfound or resolved most of the release related problems already16:32
ignasworking on term16:32
ignasschoolyearcontainer/ schoolyear/ term constraints mostly at the moment16:32
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ignasadding the verification for overlapping, going beyond limits etc.16:33
ignastrying out a new testing strategy16:33
ignasour release machinery was completely broken last week16:33
ignasby a weird python2.4 bug16:34
ignasthat builder has managed to reproduce with 100% reliability16:34
ignashad to patch python2.4 on manually to restore releases to a working state16:34
th1aWhat kind of bug?16:34
ignasbuilder is running a lot of subprocesses, like bzr up, bzr ci, dpkg-buildbackage and so on16:35
ignasand python2.4 and actually python2.5 have a problem with some processes in some cases16:35
ignassomewhat insane problem, that brought whole release process down16:36
ignasbut Marius helped me to diagnose + solve it16:36
ignasas for testing - I am trying out one of the ideas that Martijn Faassen told me about in europython16:37
ignassetting up a full functional test fixture, and writing unit tests in that environment16:37
ignaswhich seems to be very productive, while giving me full test coverage which you can't get with just functional tests16:38
th1aI see.16:39
th1aAs doctests?16:39
ignasyes, I only write doctests16:39
* ignas is trying to find ways to reduce the difficulty threshold for writing unit tests for schooltool16:39
th1aMore testing productivity is always good.16:39
ignasbecause one of the problems with cando testing, and with schooltool testing is that less experienced developers16:40
ignasare finding it just too difficult to set everything up so they could test some complicated code16:40
th1aWhere are your new style tests?16:40
ignaswell - you do your common unit tests, but you are using the functional test fixutre16:41
ignasso if you are testing a view16:41
ignasfor example16:41
ignasyou just add the objects you need into an actual application16:41
ignasand create an actual view16:41
ignaswhich means that all the adapters, and all the related objects are there already16:41
th1aI mean where in the source tree?  Under terms?16:41
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ignasthey will be under "schoolyear"16:42
th1aIn a branch now?16:42
ignasas soon as I will have the bare minimum of the functionality working16:42
ignasi'll publish the branch today after the meeting16:42
ignasif everything will work out ok, i'll make it easier for others to set up their tests that way16:43
ignasi want to eat the dogfood myself first ;)16:43
ignasand see what problems might arise16:43
ignasand whether it is feasible to do it that way at all16:43
ignas(it just seems too good at the moment, so i want to find out - what's wrong with it ;)16:44
ignasbefore fully committing to it16:44
th1aI noticed LP PPA is trying to build intrepid packages for us.16:45
ignasone package16:45
ignasbecause I have mistakenly uploaded it to interpid16:45
ignasi will upload others soon, because I got the script that jinty sent me working16:46
th1aOK.  Good.16:46
ignasand it really makes the procedure of synchronising different distributions more sane16:46
ignasso as soon as jinty replies to my last email16:46
ignasand we agree upon the procedure16:46
ignasi'll release to interpid16:46
ignasand synchronize gutsy + hardy16:47
ignasnow I have an actual idea how to do it properly in the long term16:47
ignasthat's kind of it, coding terms, debugging python/Zope3 and launchpad16:48
ignasnow i am done with debuging, and only doing terms ;)16:49
th1aThat is progress.16:49
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ignasoh, mgedmin has produced a nice checklist for code review16:49
ignasthat i will steal and publish next to schooltool developer docs ;)16:49
th1aI think I'm going to have to pick out some bugs to work on.  I'm kind of in a management lull here.16:50
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ignaswell - you can solve the first time user experience problem16:51
ignasat least on paper16:51
th1aThat is true.16:51
ignasit's something that I can't really do...16:52
ignasaelkner, yvl: how's the sprint going16:53
th1aIt'll be a little easier to work out when the new site management organization lands.16:53
th1aaelkner: Oh, you're here.16:53
aelknerit's going great16:53
aelknerwe had to overhaul competencies again!16:53
aelknerit's all becuase of how they are delivered from Virginia16:54
ignasth1a: will do that as soon as I can, it'll be the first view after the "add school year" one16:54
* th1a didn't see aelkner come in.16:54
aelkneri snuck in :)16:54
aelknerit's a long story about the compentencies16:54
aelknerbut we will be able to make the adjustment while we're here16:54
aelknerand it will actaully make sense with the data they are giving us to import16:55
aelknerJustus is way ahead of schedule16:55
th1aCan you give us a quick explanation of the competency changes?16:55
aelknerwell, the competency tree that the state gives us16:56
aelknerorganizes competencies into groups as you know16:56
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aelknerbut the problem is, the comps that are found in those groups are not unique16:56
aelknernice to find that out at this stage16:56
th1aSome are in multiple groups?16:56
aelkneryeah, Algebra one and two could have the same comp16:57
aelknerone reuired and one not16:57
th1aI see.16:57
aelknerso we had to redesign comps to be comp references16:57
aelknerand have the global ids be a dictionary that maps to comp descriptions16:58
aelknerthe comp tree then is a tree of references to those global ids16:58
aelknereach reference has id, global id, required flag16:58
th1aSo does this affect gradebook?16:58
aelknerwell, yes, but not too badly16:59
aelknerwe just need to change everywhere that uses comps16:59
aelknerto use the comp refs instead16:59
aelknerand when the need to get the desciption arrises16:59
aelknerwe look it up in the global id dict16:59
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aelknerlots of little changes16:59
th1aWe haven't gotten rid of the inheritance code yet though, right?16:59
aelknerbut nothing too bad16:59
aelknerinheritence is gone from cando but not requirements17:00
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aelknerso even though cando uses requirements17:00
aelknerit doesn't use that feature17:00
ignasso no more database corruption issues?17:00
aelknerwe had a good meeting to start the sprint17:01
aelknerthat had the double benefit of triaging the bugs17:01
aelknerand getting Justus up to speed17:01
aelknerand last year's interns have been fixing many bugs already17:02
aelknertoday we will meet with Lee Capps17:02
aelknerthe guy from the state of Virginia17:02
aelknerand we will discuss the whole data import/export issue17:02
aelkneras well as our discovery about the comps17:02
aelknerthe outstanding issues are:17:03
aelkner1) fixing bugs17:03
aelkner2) overhauling the comps17:03
aelkner3) working out what needs to be imported/exported17:03
aelkner4) demographics17:04
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aelkner5) reports17:04
aelknerwe won't have everything done by the end of the sprint17:04
aelknerbut we will be most of the way there17:04
aelkneradn Justus and Filip will be able to get us the rest of the way there soon after17:05
aelknerso that's it17:05
th1aSounds good.17:06
th1aHow are you feeling about the approaching SLA deadline?17:06
aelknera bit tight, but I'll just have to burn the midnight oil17:07
aelkneri'm going to need to steal away some hours here, but that can be hard17:08
th1aI think you'd better make a point of doing that.17:08
th1aIt sounds like things are pretty under control on the CanDo side.17:08
aelkneryeah, after we get these comps overhaulsed17:09
aelknerwhich i expect to have done today17:09
aelkneri'll steal away some time tomorrow and Thursday17:09
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th1aAre you going home Friday?17:10
aelknerThursday night17:10
th1aOK.  Good.17:11
th1aIs jelkner at the sprint?17:12
jelknersort of17:12
jelkneri'm here in the building17:12
jelknerbut working in my new office17:12
th1aHow did things wrap up in  El Salvador?17:14
jelkneri'm working with douglas on a grok project now17:14
jelknerand he will be setting up schooltool for the school in perulapia17:14
jelkneri setup a vm for him to use to do that17:14
th1aWhat grok project?17:15
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jelknerhe has a cms he wrote for the cdc which he calls viejo17:16
jelknermeans "old man" in honor of his father17:16
jstrawmgedmin: can I get the admin passwords for cando lists on reset for me? I forgot to change em the first time and don't have the right passwords anymore17:17
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th1ajelkner:  Are you doing something with viejo?17:17
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mgedminjstraw: don't think so17:18
jelknerth1a: yes17:18
jelknerwe are talking with two community organization in northern virginia about using it17:18
mgedminjstraw: in theory I probably could, but I've no idea how to do that17:18
mgedminI have admin access to all the other lists, but not these two17:19
mgedminwho set them up?17:19
jstrawI don't have those logs anymore17:19
ignasth1a: oh, as for interpid - yes we are building packages on interpid from now on17:21
ignasth1a: releasing packages on the "newest possible distribution" makes more sense17:21
th1aignas: Of course.17:21
ignasbecause then you can have a cut off point17:21
ignaswhen backporting17:21
ignasso we will be releasing for interpid, and then backport the package to -> hardy -> gutsy17:22
ignasso we can cut off unsupported distributions in the future17:22
ignasjust by not backporting packages anymore17:22
jstrawwe should attempt to keep updates for the same length of time17:22
jstrawas Ubuntu?17:22
ignasyeah, we will, maybe even longer17:22
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th1aOur users will be conservative.17:23
th1aI hope.17:23
ignasjust that - the direction should be newest -> oldest not oldest -> newest or even gutsy <- hardy -> interpid17:23
th1aOK... any last words?17:24
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ignashave a nice week ;)17:25
th1aIndeed.  Have a good sprint in Arlington!17:26
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:26
aelknerignas: do you remember why this happens?18:00
aelknersvn: Can't create directory '/svn/cando/db/transactions/1401-1.txn': Permission denied18:00
aelknerit only starting happening just now18:00
aelkneran hour ago it was fine18:00
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ignaswell - no idea, maybe someone changed permissions on cando svn repository18:11
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ignaswrite an email to jinty18:11
ignasor ask mgedmin to look at it18:11
aelknerjstraw is looking into it18:11
jstrawask mgedmin/jinty18:11
jstrawthey'll know better what it is18:11
mgedminyou poor people use the bsddb backend!18:11
mgedminthat's crazy!!!18:11
mgedminswitch to fsfs asap18:12
jstrawit's like 4 years old...18:12
mgedminbefore your db dies and goes to database hell18:12
mgedmindo you have backups, at least?18:12
mgedminnever trust bsddb18:12
jstrawuh... I have no idea18:12
mgedminwhich server is this on?18:12 i think18:12
jstrawyea schooltool.org18:13
mgedminmy mistake18:13
mgedminit's fsfs18:13
mgedminI thought umask screwups didn't happen with fsfs18:13
mgedminif your username is also 'jstraw' there, then you simply don't have commit access18:14
mgedminand a simple 'sudo adduser jstraw cando' would fix it18:15
mgedmin(run by someone who has root on tigris)18:15
jstrawit's aelkner18:16
jstrawwho had cando commit access18:16
jstrawuntil about 2 hrs ago18:16
mgedmin'sudo adduser aelkner cando' then18:18
jstrawcan ignas?18:18
mgedminbecause currently only these folks can write to the repository: tvon,pcardune,jelkner,jinty,www-data,ignas18:18
mgedminmaybe aelkner used to write through https://18:18
ignasmaybe you have been using https checkout18:18
mgedminand now switched to svn+ssh:// ?18:18
ignasand switched it to svn+ssh ?18:18
* mgedmin mumbles something about gread minds18:19
aelknermaybe i got confused using ssh for schooltool18:19
aelknerand i shoudl be using https for cando18:19
jstrawyep that'd be it18:19
mgedminit's silly for someone to have an ssh account and write access through https, and yet not have write access through ssh18:20
ignasyes, like in "grape idea!"18:20
jstrawmgedmin: yes it is, but I can't control that18:20
aelknernust be a brittish thing18:20
wjohnstonust be...18:20
mgedminjstraw: can you control who gets commit access through https?18:20
mgedminI don't remember where that is configured18:21
jstrawand he has it18:21
jstrawetc cando18:21
* mgedmin thinks18:22
mgedmina cron script would be nice, to parse /etc/cando/cando_committer_pwd_digest and add/remove users to/from the 'cando' group18:24
jstrawok aelkner for now... svn switch --relocate svn+ssh://blah
jstraw(that has to be cleaned... before you do it)18:26
jstrawignas may know more about the command18:26
aelkneri switched to https and i'm back up and running18:27
aelknerthanks to all18:27
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wbradyfsufitch: look at the message I left for bug #25334820:57
fsufitchwbrady: alright20:57
fsufitchwbrady: jstraw  himself said that the "All" option is invalid for the section gradebook20:58
fsufitchalso he said in a launchpad comment that i need to remove the group choosing altogether from the student gradebook20:59
jstrawall is not valid for section level20:59
jstrawand there is no group chooser for student gradebook20:59
jstrawall is too large20:59
wbradyno thats not right20:59
jstraw119 comps <-> is a problem20:59
wbradyyou certainly are not supposed to only see all the competencies when you see an individual student's gradebook21:00
wbradyoption for each competency group in the student gradebook is valid21:00
jstrawI see no reason not to21:00
wbrady119 comps remember?21:00
fsufitchjstraw, wbrady: the killer thing between having All and individual comp grp, is that with the All, you need a  significantly different template and browser c lass21:00
fsufitchand t hat's a PAIN to code21:01
fsufitchi just did, for the student gradebook21:01
jstrawask welsh21:01
wbradyyea need to ask welsh21:01
fsufitchindependent judge  XD21:02
wbradyi will give you that seeing all comp groups at once in the section gradebook is too much, but seeing each comp group individually from the student gradebook is important21:02
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