IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2008-02-12

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Lumierehi all02:21
LumiereCanDo dev meeting in 35 minutes02:22
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jelknerfsufitch: hello!02:54
jelknerfsufitch: is large the size you wanted for a T-shirt?02:55
jelkneri hope02:55
jelknercause that's what i ordered for you02:55
jelknerth1a: hey tom02:55
fsufitchjelkner: i can wear anything that's not too small for me ;)02:55
fsufitchi think large is right02:55
fsufitchjelkner: btw, mr torbert said that there might be a chance you'll be joining the tj compsci team :)02:56
fsufitchLumiere: hi02:57
jelknerLumiere: good evening02:57
Lumierezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz uh wait... still evening?!?02:57
aelknerhello, all02:57
jelkneryo, bro02:57
LumiereI'm still a bit dizzy from the Obama event Sunday02:58
fsufitchobama event?02:58
fsufitcham i living under a rock?02:58
Lumiereyea, I was at the Stand for Change rally at TC Williams02:58
aelknerit is the potamic primary going on02:58
jelknermy son and i saw him today02:58
Lumiereyou were in the 17.5k at Comcast Center?02:59
jelkneralone with more than 20 thousand other folks02:59
Lumieremy brother and his girlfriend02:59
Lumierewere working it02:59
Lumierehi andrew02:59
jelknerLumiere: are we ready with an agenda?02:59
Lumierepcardune, ccarey here?02:59
Lumierejelkner: somewhat03:00
jelknerwe need to finish this up within 30 minutes.03:00
jelknerwhat are you thinking?03:00
* Lumiere starts typing a blog entry ;)03:00
jelkneri wanted to know how things went during the last week03:00
Lumiere1) Does everyone have something to do03:00
jelkneris everyone plugged in03:00
jelkneryeah, that03:01
LumiereI am going to be assigning stuff through both the cando mailing list and private emails03:01
jelknereldar said he is available to work 7 hours per week03:01
Lumiereif you see an email from me on the cando list or from me privately03:01
fsufitchLumiere: which bug were you talking abotu in your email to me?03:01
fsufitchoh, i broke in :-X03:01
jelknerand the other 3 developers are all here03:02
jelknerlet's start03:02
Lumierefsufitch: the one I sent to nitromaster is for you to help him out on.03:02
nitromasterthe pending messages one?03:02
Lumiereso first things first, fsufitch your primary assignment is to take out any bug that is high priority03:02
fsufitchLumiere: fyi, i dont have much experience working with the journaling / message system03:02
Lumiereand triaged03:03
fsufitchthere's 2 of those03:03
fsufitch1 is assigned to nitromaster03:03
Lumierefsufitch: yea, but you have more cando internal knowledge03:03
Lumiereand the oddities03:03
Lumiereyes the other to you03:03
fsufitchok then03:03
th1anitromaster: I got your committer agreement today.03:03
nitromasterth1a, good03:03
th1aWhen I saw the envelope, I thought, "Why, how nice of the nitromaster to send me a thank you note so promptly."03:04
fsufitchLumiere: i'm also assigned to the low priority bug of competency display number not staying where it should stay03:04
Lumierefsufitch: you should do that one too ;)03:04
Lumierefsufitch: the big thing for you is to help ccarey and nitromaster with any cando questions they have03:05
Lumiereif you don't know it poke eldar03:05
fsufitchalso, i'm going to need some working data03:05
fsufitchto stick into my cando instance03:05
Lumieredata is a welsh issue03:05
fsufitchso contact him?03:05
fsufitch(me contact him)03:05
LumiereI cede all issues like that to him ;)03:05
jelknerLumiere: you have better access to welsh03:06
Lumierejelkner: I just want him to send an email to him cc me03:06
jelknershouldn't fsufitch work through you?03:06
Lumierethen I'll go and grab my mallet03:06
Lumiereand beat him till he does it03:06
jelknerthat'll work03:06
fsufitchdon't treat him too hard ;)03:06
Lumierewe both mess with each other...03:07
Lumiereccarey: you have things to do?03:07
ccareyyes i'm finishing up the bug i was assigned03:07
Lumiereone of my todo this week03:07
Lumiereis going to be to write a procedure for a bug03:07
jelknerdo we have the billing process in place?03:07
jelknereveryone know how and when to bill?03:08
Lumierejelkner: no idea, I don't control accounting in any way03:08
fsufitchthat's still dwelsh?03:08
Lumiereand I cannot do so at this point03:08
jelknerthat's a welsh issue03:08
jelknerbut i wanted to check in and see if it was working?03:08
* jelkner hears no grumblings and assumes all is well03:10
ccareywell i haven't gotten a confirmation on my first invoice, so i don't know yet03:10
Lumiereccarey: send a follow up about a week later03:10
jelknerccarey: keep me in the loop03:10
Lumierefsufitch, ccarey, nitromaster: as a future thing, if you see any bug on launchpad that you think you can do03:11
Lumiereplease send me a note requesting it03:11
jelknerone of my roles is to whine and complain when you all don't get paid on time ;-)03:11
Lumiere(please confirm you got this ;) )03:11
Lumiereany bug above wishlist that is incomplete03:11
Lumiereyou are welcome to take to attempt to reproduce03:11
ccareyjelkner, i sent an invoice to th1a sometime in january i think03:12
jelknerth1a is on here now03:12
Lumiereth1a may be afk?03:12
Lumierebut if I spam th1a's name more... will that make him more likely to appear...03:12
Lumiere(don't test this)03:12
fsufitchnot really03:12
fsufitchxchat only blinks so much...03:13
Lumierenext week be prepared to provide a short info on what you did over the week.03:13
fsufitchalso, jelkner, due to issues getting the proper infos to send to th1a, i didn't get the "january" invoice sent yet03:13
fsufitchis it still for sending to him or to dwelsh?03:13
jelknercando work now goes to dwelsh03:14
Lumierejelkner: if he was working for th1a it still goes to th1a03:14
fsufitchi was working for cando03:14
fsufitchbut there were funding issues or something?03:14
Lumierelets take the accounting stuff into an email to dwelsh03:15
Lumieregiven that he isn't here03:15
jelknerstuff done at the end of 2007 goes to th1a03:15
jelknerstuff in 2008 goes to dwelsh03:15
fsufitchso that stuff is for th1a03:15
fsufitchi'll write that up right now so that i don'03:15
fsufitcht forget it again03:15
jelknersorry this is so confusing03:15
jelknerthat's why i want to talk about it in our weekly meetings03:16
fsufitchnah, now it makes sense :)03:16
jelknerit is just depends on who has funding when03:16
LumiereI'll be more put together soon ;)03:16
jelknerok, anything else?03:16
aelkneri have a question03:17
jelknergo, bro03:17
aelknerbeing that i'm only available for 10 hours/month03:17
aelknerit would help me a lot03:17
aelknerif i was able to see the changelists of all03:18
aelknercompiled into one email03:18
aelknersay once a week?03:18
aelkneri don[t know if this is doable03:18
aelknerbut it would allow not only me03:18
aelknerbut anyone else03:18
LumiereI wonder if we can do this automatically03:18
aelknerto have a project oversight capability03:18
Lumierebut it would be useful for sure03:18
aelknerit may take python03:18
aelknerLumiere: i bet i could help you do that03:19
aelknerit would abe a fun project03:19
aelknerany easy to do since it's python03:19
aelknerwe could talk about that after the meeting03:19
aelknerbut basically03:20
aelkneri used to do things like that when i worked as03:20
aelknera release manager03:20
aelkneri used to compile changes into bundles03:20
aelknerusing python to do shell commands03:20
aelknerthat called up teh revision control03:21
Lumiereaelkner: I can do that too03:21
aelknerbut not what i meant03:22
LumiereI know03:22
Lumierebut that's the sort of thing it will be03:22
aelknerbasically, that diff03:22
Lumiere   change log messages03:22
aelknerexploded out03:22
Lumierethat's the list of changes with their logs03:22
jelkneraelkner and Lumiere: since this is a discussion between the two of you03:23
jelknercan we adjourn?03:23
jelknerthanks all!  same time next week03:23
* Lumiere hits submit03:24
Lumiereemail me03:24
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Lumiereif you need me03:24
aelknerLumiere: shall we?03:24
aelknerbasically, a simple python script03:25
aelknercan make ample use of os.popen03:25
aelknermaking shell comands like 'svn diff'03:25
aelknerthought it would be harder than that03:25
aelknersince one would need to pass the revision03:25
aelknerbut without getting into that aspect of the details03:26
aelkneri would just suggest making liberal use03:26
aelknerof popen on svn03:26
aelknerin in the process learn a lot about svn03:26
aelknerfor instance03:26
aelknerhwo does one ask:03:26
Lumierehow about just using python.subversion?03:26
Lumierepython-subversion - Python bindings for Subversion03:27
Lumierepython-svn - A(nother) Python interface to Subversion03:27
aelknerah, that might be better03:27
aelkneractually, would be better03:28
aelkneras long as you can get it to work03:28
aelknerif so, then great03:28
aelknerif not, don't give up having the popen at your disposal03:28
aelknerso email me when you have questions03:29
aelknerLumiere: do we have a plan?03:29
Lumiereyea I will03:31
Lumieregonna take a minute to look ovecr the 2 tools03:31
aelknerok, i'm on until shortly before 9:0003:31
aelknerMichelle Obama's on Larry King at 9:0003:32
Lumiereyea I saw03:32
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eldaroops ... slept in >.<03:59
Lumierehi eldar03:59
Lumierewe finished about 35 minutes ago03:59
eldarLumiere: hi Jason :)03:59
eldarYeah, I just read the logs >.>03:59
Lumieretake anything that isn't taken on the lp list04:00
eldarLumiere: ok so right now there are 8 bugs for cando officially on launchpad, correct?04:02
LumiereI cleaned out the rest04:03
Lumiere6 that aren't ignorable04:03
eldarwhat does lp mean?04:04
eldaroh launchpad >.<04:04
Lumieretoo lazy to type it out04:04
eldarit seems the only valid bugs that aren't taken are the 2 last wishlist bugs04:05
Lumierelook over the blueprints04:07
Lumieresee if there is anything insane on it04:07
Lumiereand help me clean it up04:07
eldari'll change pending messages to beta available04:08
eldari don't even know what to do with doctest quiz04:09
eldari think the reason we didn't put it on a wishlist, or obsolete was because of jeff04:10
eldarLumiere: so how responsive of a testing user base do we have now?04:14
eldarsay if i were to commit fixes to some bugs right now, how many days would it take for me to hear feedback04:14
eldaror is there like a systematic time where testers are told to update their instances and test stuff every week04:15
Lumiereeldar: right now we can get it in in like a couple days04:19
Lumiereupdates are just sending a message to dwelsh and wbrady04:19
LumiereI am going to put procedures together this week04:19
Lumiereno offense to jeff04:19
Lumierebut i think we should entirely table docbook-quiz04:20
Lumiereand just drop it04:20
Lumierethe priority for you04:20
Lumieremay be putting together the global id stuff04:20
eldarwhat's the status on that04:21
eldarit says beta available, but i am assuming that's not exactly true04:22
Lumiereaelkner: here?04:22
Lumiereeldar: well04:22
Lumiereeldar: we have to add a bunch to it04:23
Lumiereto make it work04:23
aelkneri'm listening to michelle, but...04:23
Lumierewhen she finishes04:23
Lumierecan you and eldar talk about global id a bit :)04:24
Lumierealso... python-svn test = client.log("/home/jstraw/compile/cando/cando-trunk-nossl",pysvn.Revision(, time.time() -21*24*60*60),pysvn.Revision(pysvn.opt_revision_kind.head), True,False, 7)04:24
Lumiere>>> for x in test: print x.revision.number, ":", x.message...04:24
Lumiere1306 : Updated the evolution script to evolve the annotations of journal entries04:24
Lumiere1311 : Whitespace removal, test ccareys password (I am jinty)04:24
Lumieretis a start04:24
aelkneri think you;'re on track04:24
eldari love how i get emails from launchpad about comments on bugs even though i'm the one making them04:25
aelkneryeah, it doesn't distiguish that much04:27
aelknerso eldar, what's the question you have?04:27
eldari don't even remember what global ids were, forget what's the status on them04:27
aelknerok, to explain04:28
aelkneras you know, competencies are organized on the server's ZODB04:28
aelknerin the heirachy of groups, etc.04:28
aelknerproblem is, that data is not transportable04:28
aelknerto allow a student to take their grades with them04:29
aelknerwe need a global id sytem for the competncies04:29
aelknereach competency will have a unique uri04:29
aelknerthat identifies it outside of any particular cando installation04:29
aelknernow how does a competncy get its global id?04:30
aelknertwo ways04:30
aelknertose competencies that dwelsh's crew and jelkner are using04:30
aelknercome from the state of virginia04:30
aelknerand were delivered to us in an xml file04:30
aelknerone of the fields filled in by them was global id04:31
aelknerso we just set it to be that04:31
Lumierethat is what is beta available04:31
aelknerthat's makes the data transferrable between two different virginia schools04:31
aelknerso a student could move between virginia schools and have their data brought with them04:32
aelknera national global id uri would be necessary for interstate transfer04:32
aelknerbut we're not near that, and it doesn't hurt us to use virginia's04:32
aelknerour only customer04:32
aelknerthe second way a competency can get a global id04:33
aelkneris if the competency itself is created at the school04:33
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aelknerin this case, the global id would need to be something like the machine url with a running number for each new one04:34
aelknerwe don't have anything like that working now04:34
aelknerso that's one thing that needs solving04:34
Lumierepcardune wrote pieces of it04:34
Lumierethat were turned off because they were broken04:34
aelknerso it's partly done04:34
aelkneryeah, i disabled it cause it wasn't ready04:34
aelknerso that's definitely a job for eldar04:35
aelknernot one of the interns04:35
aelkneror i shouldn;t call them interns anytmore04:35
aelknerbut you get the idea04:35
Lumierejr developers04:35
aelknerso can Lumiere and eldar keep in touch over time to solve this problem?04:36
Lumiereyes04:36 is down04:36
eldaryeah, once i get into a flow of things04:36
eldari'll need more explanation of what i'm trying to accomplish, but we should be fine04:36
Lumiereeldar: yea we'll get there04:37
aelknerLumiere needs to be the author of the global id04:37
aelkneryou should get with Lee Caps04:37
Lumiereaelkner: a lot of it doesn't involve cte-resource04:37
aelknerand come up with something for the local created competencies04:37
Lumierebtw eldar global-id stuff runs out of XP quickly04:38
Lumiereso be prepared for me to violate XP some04:38
aelknerok, i'm done for the night04:38
aelknercya guys04:38
Lumiereso am I04:38
LumiereI can't keep playing with svn04:38
Lumiereif it is down04:39
Lumiereall of ignas's commits04:39
Lumiereare lost04:39
Lumiere>>> test = client.log("/home/jstraw/compile/cando/cando-trunk-nossl",pysvn.Revision(pysvn.opt_revision_kind.head),pysvn.Revision(pysvn.opt_revision_kind.number, 1300))04:41
Lumiere>>> for x in test: print x.revision.number, ":", x.message...04:41
Lumiere1311 : Whitespace removal, test ccareys password (I am jinty)04:41
Lumiere1306 : Updated the evolution script to evolve the annotations of journal entries04:41
Lumiere1305 : Updated evolution script04:41
Lumiere1304 : Missed this place when I was updating message container keys04:41
Lumiereand by you04:41
Lumiere1303 : Merging message branch into trunk04:41
Lumiereits anyone who uses ssh+svn04:41
eldari use https04:41
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Lumiereyou don't show up either04:42
Lumiereoh wait you do04:42
Lumierebut only after 130304:42
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Lumiereoh well04:43
eldaralright, i'm gonna go back to sleep04:44
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aelkner__pcardune: ayt?18:06
pcarduneaelkner__: for a bit18:11
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ignasjinty: yippie, I have managed to run tests for vanguardistas.svn using system python with all the dependencies from PPA18:31
jintyI see you've been uploading a few packages as well18:34
jintyI made a few changes18:34
ignaswell - something seems wrong with dependencies18:35
jintyeverything in zope.* should depend on python-zope18:35
ignasso zope.schema is installable18:35
jintywhich conflicts with zope318:35
ignaswhile there are missing dependencies18:35
ignasso i had to find out aobut them by running ./test.py18:35
ignasjinty: cool18:35
jintythe dependencies are computed from setup.py18:35
jinty(I hope)18:35
jintyif you can find an example of a package with bad dependencies, that would help18:36
ignasit seems that they're not :/18:36
ignasdepends on zope.i18nmessageid and zope.event in i think18:37
ignasat least EGG_INFO/requires.txt says so18:37
jintywonderful, we have a bootstrap problem18:42
jintyto get the dependencies working properly18:42
jintywe need to get vanguardistas.buildconfig working18:42
jintybuildtools that is18:42
jintybut vanguardistas.buildtools seems to depend on zope.component18:43
jintythat sucks18:44
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ignasespecially if we don't have a way to automatically collect dependencies18:47
* jinty can't think of a way out at the moment18:53
ignasjinty: is it possible to just take the packages_config file and generate a batch file that wget's the right urls passing the link as a GET parameter?18:53
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jintyignas: I'm not sure what you mean?18:54
ignaswell - using emacs + search and replace18:54
ignasgenerating a list of package urls from KGS should not be too difficult18:55
ignasthen we'd only have to package all of them up and upload them ;)18:55
ignasor i could probably distill the list of zope.component dependencies18:55
ignaswithout too much trouble18:55
jintypackage = debian package?18:55
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jintybut I think we need to hold off on the automation until this little bootstrap issue is sorted18:57
jintybecause otherwise we'll have to upload them all again18:57
* jinty weighs up the idea of making a new package that only depends on setuptools to do the introspection18:58
ignashmm, so - should I get you a list of urls/eggs that zope.component depends on?18:58
ignasyou mean that we'd generate dependencies of zope.component18:59
jintyyes, of course18:59
jintywell, if we're introspecting stuff18:59
jintywe might as well introspec everything18:59
jintyalso zope.component18:59
jintybecause it's not really necessary for the introspection itself19:00
jintyany ideas as to what to call this package?19:01
ignasgot no imagination today, sorry19:02
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* jinty calls it vanguardistas.pydebdep19:04
* jinty shudders in disgust19:05
ignaszope.component 3.4.0 depends on zope.event 3.4.0, zope.deferredimport 3.4.0, zope.interface 3.4.1, zope.deprecation 3.4.0, zope.proxy 3.4.019:10
jintyignas: how to run unit tests without a dependency on zope.testing?19:12
ignasmgedmin: ^19:12
* ignas can't recall how to use python testing module19:12
ignasbut python has it, that's for sure19:13
ignasi think you should just use unittest and doctest19:13
ignasinstead of zope.unittest zope.doctest19:14
ignasand do everything the same way19:14
jintyyeah, but how to run them19:14
* jinty goes to the python docs19:15
mgedminwell, the correct answer is "you're not supposed to"19:15
mgedminor put19:15
mgedminif __name__ == '__main__': unittest.main(defaultTest='test_suite')19:15
mgedminat the bottom of test.py19:15
mgedminevery test_whatever.py19:15
mgedminand then run each of those test modules19:16
mgedminnote that tests which depend on some advanced zope.testing features (such as layers) can't be run without zope.testing19:16
* jinty has no tests like that in this package19:16
mgedminalso note that zope.testing distributes a which has bugfixes not present in python 2.4's stdlib's doctest.py19:17
mgedminare you talking about running existing tests, or are you writing a new Python package from scratch?19:17
jintythe problem is that this package will be used to build zope.testing19:17
jintyso it can't really depend on it19:17
mgedminah, new package19:17
mgedminthen you're free to implement whatever solution you want to :)19:18
jintya _very_ small one19:18
mgedminif you have more than one test file19:18
mgedminif you have one test file only19:19
mgedminif you don't mind external dependencies, you may want to look at nose19:19
mgedmin(what an ungoogleable name!)19:19
* jinty kisses mgedmin then runs off with his code19:19
jintywill do just fine19:19
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* jinty uploads python-vanguadistas.pydepdeb to the PPA20:32
jintynow just gotta fix things to use it20:32
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