IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2007-09-24

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aelknerthla: ayt?05:34
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aelknerignas: I'm going to be working on the jelkner-gradebook branch, and I have some questions about integrating the code15:25
aelknertell me if these steps are correct:15:26
aelkneri have trunk and the jelkner branch as sibling directories15:27
aelkneri change to the parent dir15:27
ignasyou are talking about merging?15:27
aelknerand type svn merge -r [rev when jelkner-gradebook was created]:HEAD jelkner-gradebook trunk15:28
ignaskind of, i actually don't even use an actual trunk checkout when merging15:28
ignasjust go into branch15:28
aelknerso in the branch:15:29
aelkner[rev when thebranch was created]:HEAD thebranch trunk15:29
ignasand type svn merge -r rev:HEAD . svn+ssh://url-of-trunk15:29
ignasor was it "url-to-trunk ."15:29
FujitsuEw, SVN merging...15:30
aelknerok.  i'll try that15:30
ignasyes, first url to trunk, then a dot15:31
ignasdot means - merge to here15:31
aelknercan i be in the root of the repo?  when i do and svn st on jelkner-gradbook, i get the changes i made to and a ?  eggs15:32
aelknerdo i need to go one dir level deeper15:32
ignasyes you can be in the root of the repo15:33
ignasand you should not modify, you should copy it to schooltool.conf and then modify it15:33
aelknerignas: i haven't done the merge yet, and i have the following svn st:15:39
aelkner?    eggs15:39
aelknerM      schooltool-skel/etc/site.zcml15:39
aelkneri needed to change the site.zcml to include the gradebook and requirement packages15:39
aelknerdeosn't this preclude me from doing an svn ci from the root of the repo?15:40
ignashmm, what would happen if you would create a "geadebook slug" in plugins directory?15:41
ignasiirc there was something like that in the etc/15:41
ignasand merge will not commit everything automatically15:42
ignasyou will have to commit stuff after the merge yourself15:42
ignasso you will be able to commit only things that you have merged15:42
aelkneri figured it would do the merge, and then svn ci, so that's why i was concerned about what svn st already said15:43
aelkneras that would also be part of the svn ci15:43
ignasno it won't do svn ci automatically15:44
ignassvn gives you a chance to fix all the tests15:44
ignasand conflicts15:44
ignasi mean it would be really nasty if source code with conflicts would get commited automatically15:44
aelknerno, i understand.  i've fixed conflicts before15:45
aelkneri just have done it from the src dir, not from the root15:45
aelknercommiting from the root is what is causing me the concern with the ?s and all15:46
ignas? will be ignored15:46
aelkneroh, good15:46
ignasand site.zcml - well - you dont' have to commit it15:46
ignasand if i did any changes to Makefile15:47
ignasmerging in src15:47
ignaswould ignore them15:47
ignasso you must merge from root15:47
aelknerso i need to revert the site.zcml and add the plugins, right?15:47
aelknerthey will show up as ?s and be ignored?15:48
ignasnot necessary, you can just not commit the file15:48
ignasbut that would save you work when commiting15:48
aelknerhow do you not commit something?  i mean, svn ci -m 'whatever'  doesn't allow for ignoring any specific file that has changed.15:49
ignassvn ci src/ Makefile -m 'whatever'15:49
ignaswill commit all the changes in src and the makefile15:49
ignasskipping everything else15:49
aelkneroh.  cool.15:49
LumiereI should be back in time for 9:3015:56
Lumieregoing to get my shower now.15:56
aelknerignas: i typed the following and got an error:15:57
aelknersvn merge -r 7185:HEAD svn+ssh:// .15:57
aelknerthe error:15:57
LumiereI will have to leave at 10:15 this morning15:57
aelknersvn: No repository found in 'svn+ssh://'15:57
ignaswhat url svn info in your trunk checkout give you?15:58
ignastry using it instead of svn+ssh16:00
ignasand ssh url is svn+ssh://
ignasssh and http urls don't match16:01
aelknertyping svn merge -r 7185:HEAD . yeilds:16:01
aelknersvn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svn/trunk/schooltool'16:01
aelknersvn: PROPFIND of '/svn/trunk/schooltool': 405 Method Not Allowed (
aelknersvn info on teh branch yields:16:02
aelknerfor the url16:02
ignasyou won't be able to commit after the merge16:02
ignasand i think dot goes first16:03
aelknerdo i need to redo the svn co using svn_ssh?16:03
aelkneri'll try16:03
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aelknerignas: svn co svn+ssh:// yields:16:08
aelknersvn: No repository found in 'svn+ssh://'16:08
aelknershouldnt' that work?16:08
ignasssh and http urls don't match16:08
aelknerso what url am i supposed to use?16:09
aelkneri'll have to make a note of that16:10
aelknerit worked16:10
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aelknerignas: so now i was able to do the merge and it gave me the following messages:16:16
aelknera         jacqmain16:16
aelknera         jacqmain/src...16:16
aelknerbut then16:17
ignaswas it trunk you tried merging from ?16:17
aelknerskipped missing target: 'schooltool/src/schooltool/app/browser/templates/'16:17
aelknerhere's the command i used:16:17
aelknersvn merge -r 7185:HEAD svn+ssh:// .16:17
ignasnot svn+ssh://
aelkneri tried that and got:16:18
ignasyou tried merging from the whole repository16:18
aelknersvn: No repository found in 'svn+ssh://'16:18
ignassvn+ssh:// vs svn+ssh://
aelknerit worked!16:22
aelkneri get about 40 updates16:22
aelknerwhich would make sense from the number of commits you made in the last 2 weeks16:23
aelknerand they seem to match the commit comments you made16:23
ignasdo tests pass16:24
aelknerfirst i need to run make, then make test and ftest, right?16:24
ignasmake test ftest16:25
ignasdoes everything needed16:25
aelknerbecuase test and ftest depend on build, right?16:26
* Lumiere returns and pokes th1a 16:28
th1aHi Lumiere.16:28
th1aI'm awake.16:28
Lumierejust making sure16:28
th1aI have to get up when my wife goes to work now.16:28
th1aWatch Vivian until she's ready for her 8:30 nap.16:29
th1aHi ignas, aelkner.16:29
aelknerth1a: ignas has been helping me with merging trunk into jelkner-gradebook16:29
th1aYes, I've been reading along.16:29
aelkneri've learned a lot already16:29
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th1aI just have nothing to contribute to that conversation.16:29
dwelshgood morning16:29
aelknerignas: make test fails16:30
th1agood morning dwelsh.16:30
ignasaelkner, fix them ;)16:30
th1aNo jfroche or jinty.16:30
Lumiereth1a: I understand that16:30
dwelshmy whole family is INTO the concept of Vintage Baseball16:30
dwelsh...but that's another topic16:30
Lumieredwelsh: I will be at ACC tomorrow16:30
th1adwelsh: Awesome.16:30
dwelshalso, Eagles did well yesterday.16:30
dwelshthank GOD for Alan's psyche16:30
th1aIt was the unis.16:30
th1aThey have to wear them every week now.16:31
aelkneri don't think coach will want that16:31
dwelshLumiere: 2 concerns16:31
dwelshWe were NOT fast responding to our server down on Friday16:31
dwelshand the fix was literally 2 minutes16:31
dwelshIt affected end users and was not good16:31
dwelshBoth Cindy and Scott were calling me around noon asking me what the problem was16:32
th1aLet's start today's meeting with dwelsh's concerns ;-)16:32
dwelshI had it reported at 6am16:32
dwelshtoo long16:32
th1aWhat was the problem?16:32
dwelshJust killing a process and restarting the server16:32
dwelshBut I did not know enough to do it16:33
th1aNot caused by a bugfix?16:33
dwelshAnd now only Jason and I have access to our server16:33
th1aWhat process?16:33
dwelshI finally got on the phone with Alan and he talked me thru it remotely at 3:15pm16:33
ignasbut how did it get into a state that required a restart?16:33
dwelshBy then the school day was over16:33
dwelshNo one died, but we need a better system16:33
dwelsh2 questions:16:33
Lumieredwelsh: I'm sorry, I am stuck on LearniT related stuff16:34
Lumieretill at least the end of today16:34
dwelshThat I understand... but the fix was SO fast.16:34
dwelshWould have literally taken 120 secs.16:34
aelknerignas: he needed to stop and make update, then restart16:34
dwelshthe "screen -x" procedure is too blind16:34
dwelshBut my 2 questions16:34
Lumierethen lets get a package made16:34
Lumiereand fix it16:34
dwelshCan we get an external server running the ACC instance16:35
ignasaelkner, but why?16:35
dwelshso more people than just Jason and I have access16:35
dwelshsuch as Matt Gallagher, Alan Elkner, and others16:35
dwelshRight now, we're too dependent on Jason and me16:35
Lumierethey all have access from YHS16:35
dwelshand I certainly don't know that much to help16:35
Lumiereto the internal server16:35
dwelshOK.  That help.16:35
Lumiereexcept aelkner16:36
dwelshShouldn't we run on an instance that Alan has access to???16:36
aelknerignas: doesn't one need to stop a schooltool (or in our case CanDo) instance before doing make update?16:36
Lumierebut, I moved it internal because it was too wide open16:36
dwelshThere's security on the server, no?16:36
dwelshRunning an external sever should not be a problem16:36
Lumieremore now then there was16:36
ignasaelkner, emm, need yes, but that should not cause any downtime16:37
LumiereI mean by being internal it is more secure16:37
ignasaelkner, my question is - why a make update was needed16:37
th1aWhat was the bug?16:37
Lumiereit was unrelated to the bug16:37
aelknerignas: i make changes to CanDo and welsh need to get those changes, so he needs to do the make update16:37
Lumierewelsh made update16:38
dwelshI use "make update" and "make" to update the server16:38
Lumiereand tried to start the server16:38
Lumierewithout killing the server first16:38
ignasand ?16:38
dwelshI think that I did not stop the server first (even though I tried)16:38
ignasand what happened?16:38
dwelshso I had lock file and other problems on attempted restart16:38
Lumierethe screen was on the wrong window16:38
Lumierethat's it16:38
aelknerwelsh didn't know how to stop the server16:38
aelknerthat was the problem16:38
th1aSo an init script would have helped?16:38
dwelshagain, the process I'm using is too blind16:38
aelknerso we kill -9's the process16:39
dwelshI'm trust the server is stopping, when maybe it's not16:39
Lumiereth1a: not using trunk svn16:39
ignasLumiere, what are you using for deployment?16:39
Lumiereignas: it's a trunk instance16:39
Lumierebecause we haven't released yet16:39
ignasLumiere, no buildout/16:39
ignasi see16:39
ignasi have added --daemon and --stop-daemon16:39
ignaswhen using start-schooltool-instance16:39
dwelshYes, we need a better methodology16:39
dwelshWe also need the release about now.16:40
Lumieredwelsh: we have one16:40
dwelshWe're ready for it.16:40
ignasand even --status16:40
Lumierejust do the damned release16:40
dwelshWell, we can run trunk too16:40
dwelshI just need a better process for stopping the server16:40
dwelshbefore running "make update" and "make"16:40
dwelshAgain, I'm going blind now16:40
dwelshand if it fails like it did Friday,16:41
LumiereI'll fix it thursday16:41
dwelshI don't have a procedure for fixing16:41
Lumiereerr tuesday16:41
dwelshwe need to make sure multiple people can respond to problems16:41
dwelshand that multiple people have access16:41
dwelshThe more end-users count on us,16:41
dwelshthe more responsive we have to be16:41
dwelshEnd users count on us now, which is where we want to be16:41
dwelshWe just have to make sure and have multiple recourses for response16:42
dwelshAlan has been good, but he had not access16:42
dwelshJason is usually good but was unavailable16:42
dwelshWelsh is usually available, but not enough knowledge16:42
dwelshWho else can we use?16:42
dwelshMatt Gallagher?16:42
Lumierematt and jeff16:42
Lumiereboth have network access16:43
Lumierebut not accounts16:43
dwelshOK.  That helps.  I did not realize that they had access.16:43
dwelshOK.  They'll need accounts, then.16:43
aelknerand i'll need one16:43
LumiereI'll do it tuesday16:43
Lumiereaelkner: you cannot access it16:43
Lumiereaelkner: it is behind the firewall16:43
dwelshSo I think we should run a public instance again.16:43
Lumieredwelsh: NO16:43
dwelshThat way, Alan can get on there directly and see problems16:43
dwelshEven if it's just a mirror server.16:44
LumiereI have been trying to move it internal like this for a year16:44
dwelshWhat's the problem with external?16:44
dwelshLike last year?16:44
Lumieredwelsh: and we can't do that exactly how we have been16:44
Lumieredwelsh: other then vps's suck?16:44
Lumiereand can't handle updating without going boom16:44
dwelshOK.  Jason, you and I need to puzzle this one through16:44
dwelshIt's tough now, because Alan can't see what we're seeing at the data level16:45
Lumierethat's what I am saying, stop hijacking th1a's meeting16:45
Lumierewe'll talk tomorrow16:45
dwelshAlso, he can't help us fix, though Jeff and Matt may alleviate that crunch some16:45
dwelshMy last issue,16:45
dwelshI saw ignas email on SchTool code changes that will "break" CanDo16:45
Lumiereit will not affect 2007.0816:45
dwelshWe need to be thoughtful about when, and how we recover from that16:45
ignasthese are not going to happen16:45
ignasbecause of reasons mentioned by tom in later emails16:46
dwelshFine, if that works for you guys16:46
* th1a goes to pee while Lumiere and dwelsh wrap this up.16:46
dwelshCanDo is definitely running and relied upon16:46
Lumieredwelsh: it's a copyright issue16:46
Lumieredwelsh: it can't happen cause the code isn't available to us16:46
dwelshalright, Jason, you and I will talk on Tues.16:46
dwelshHave a good mtg., folks16:46
dwelshgo Eagles, Vintage Baseball and Redskins16:46
th1athanks dwelsh.16:47
Lumiereth1a: I have under 30 minutes16:47
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th1aI guess that's our CanDo-land update?16:48
th1aAnything else Lumiere?16:48
Lumierenothing from me, aelkner?16:48
aelknerenglish, please16:48
th1aI don't know that there's anything else we need to talk about that specifically impacts Lumiere.16:48
th1aSo... let's get an update from Vilnius.16:49
ignasnot much, did some work on merging the branch16:50
ignasthat eventually will have to be deleted :/16:50
ignasworked on lyceum translations16:50
th1aWhat do you mean?16:50
ignasand some low bandwith, high speed ajax16:50
ignasfor lyceum journal16:50
ignasand some more on schooltool and lyceum i18n16:51
th1aOh, that. :-\16:51
aelknerignas: does srichter-gradebook have anything to do with the gradebook i'm working on?16:51
ignasaelkner, yes16:51
ignasaelkner, a lot actually16:51
th1aWell... waitasec.16:51
th1aThe code in question with srichter is the term branch.16:52
ignasyes, term branch includes terms + grading periods16:52
th1aWe don't have to purge everything he ever wrote.16:52
ignasand grading periods is something cando will be implementing16:52
ignasthough they are term work16:52
th1aYes, but that's not something aelkner would have even been aware of.16:52
th1aI mean, it affects him, but it affects what he will be doing in the future.16:52
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th1aSo from his point of view, it is as if something he didn't know about never happened in the first place.16:53
aelknerbtw, there's a branch called pcardune-gradebook-improvements which is too old (June) in my opinion16:53
ignasyes, i guess16:53
th1aIf code is checked into the repository, but nobody reads it, does it exist?16:53
th1aHi jfroche.16:54
ignasi meant - stephan did some of the grading period <-> gradebook integration, so he changed quite some gradebook code16:54
aelknerif it's in a branch, yes16:54
ignasin his branch16:54
jfrochehello sorry for delay16:54
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aelknerguys, i need to get to changing gradebook for jelkner, so i'm not crazy about this moving taget thing16:55
aelkneralready i have enough time to spend just merging trunk nback to jelkner-gradebook16:55
th1aWhat I'm trying to express is that the target is just moving back to where it was.16:55
aelknerwhat does that mean for what i need to do in the next couple of days16:56
th1aAlso, while it is a good idea to take this code out of the repository because its copyright is ambiguous,16:56
th1aI would point out that srichter and I did the api design and doctests together, and he was paid for the first half of the work,16:57
th1aSo I don't think we need to treat this as some kind of cleanroom re-implementation from scratch.16:57
th1aIf you know what I mean.16:57
th1aThat is, you shouldn't cut and paste.16:58
th1aBut I don't think you have to avert your eyes and pretend that it never happened.16:58
ignasmost of the difficulties lay in integration of the code, not in the design16:58
aelknerthat's my concern.  i don't have time in the short term to be spending integrating code16:59
th1aI'm just making a (potentially trivial) point.16:59
ignasi see16:59
aelkneri mean, more than i already had to do with the merge from trunk16:59
aelkneri need to get jeff using jelkner-gradbook instead of trunk16:59
aelknerand then i can make changes to that17:00
th1aaelkner: Yes.17:00
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aelknerwhen jelkner approves all my changes, we can then merge back into trunk17:00
aelknerdoes that make sense?17:00
jelknerwhen can i see them?17:00
aelknerjelkner: i haven't made a single change17:01
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aelknerstill working on the merge17:01
jelknersorry i missed the meeting17:01
jelknerbut i can talk now for a bit17:01
jelkner10 am is the earliest i can get here17:01
jelkneri have class, but it is advanced topics17:01
aelknerjelkner: you and i already discussed the plan:17:01
jelknerso i can give half my attention17:01
aelkneraelkner merges trunk into jelkner-gradebook17:01
aelknerthen i add the functions you want17:02
jelknermakes changes to grade book...17:02
aelknerand you use that baranch instead of trunk17:02
th1ajelkner: You missed the first part of the meeting with dwelsh took over.17:02
aelknerthen when the work is done, we merge it back into trunk17:02
th1aIs this the tag team approach to turning the SchoolTool meeting into the CanDo meeting?17:02
jelknerthat's a plan!17:02
jelknerwe need to stick with it17:02
jelknerbtw did welsh say anything about richmond?17:03
aelknerhe's working on it17:03
jelkneri will bug him relentlessly until he has an appointment ;-)17:03
aelknerbut seriously, jelkner, you should let th1a retain control of his own meeting17:04
th1aSo what's your plan for this week aelkner?17:04
aelknerto work on jelkner-gradebook17:04
th1aWe didn't need structure when we were down to just ignas, jfroche and me.17:04
aelknerdeliver blueprint changes to jelkner17:04
th1aFrom the multi-pronged gradebook blueprint?17:05
th1aOK.  I may split that up today.17:05
aelknerthe first two things are critical for jelkner by Tuesday evening17:05
th1aAh.  OK.17:05
aelknerjelkner and i don't want to divert effort to blueprints17:05
aelknerhe just needs the two things done for back to school night17:06
th1aaelkner: I'm not going to make you do it.17:06
aelknerthat's cool17:06
aelknerjust wanted you to know out priorities17:06
aelknerjelkner: still working on the integration17:07
aelknerwill advise when you can switch to the branch17:07
th1aSo is the problem that aelkner just merged in the srichter-term stuff that is going to be removed shortly?17:07
aelkneri merged from tunk17:07
aelkneris that what you mean?17:08
jelknerth1a: my humble apologies for usurping your meeting ;-)17:08
th1aI don't know if ignas merged that stuff into trunk.17:08
th1aI'm confused.17:08
aelkneryou're not alone17:08
LumiereI don't think he did17:08
th1ajelkner: Pushy Americans.17:08
ignasno, i didn't merge anything to trunk17:08
th1aSo aelkner can pretend last week never happened.17:09
aelkneri never knew it happened anyway, so...17:09
th1aSo there is no problem.17:09
th1aWhat's your plan for this week ignas?17:09
ignasfor this week17:09
ignasmeeting with lyceum17:09
ignasimproving i18n further17:10
ignasworking on lyceum journal17:10
ignasand expanding school year blueprinyt17:10
th1aignas: If I check out the lyceum branch and generate sample data, will I be able to use the journal?17:11
ignasthere is no sample data for lyceum17:11
ignaslyceum is a separate plugin17:11
ignasi should delete lyceum branch altogether17:11
th1aUse bzr?17:12
Lumiereas far as I know, there is no sample data for cando either17:12
ignasi'll post instructions for testing lyceum somewhere on the web i guess17:12
th1aLumiere: I got aelkner to fix one bug on that.17:12
th1aignas: Yes, it would be nice to see this ;-)17:12
th1aOK.  jfroche, give us an update, please.17:13
jfrocheyup working on translation and the gradebook changes for jacqmain17:13
jfrocheand worked with ignas to set jacqmain as a schooltool plugin17:14
jfrocheand moved to bzr17:14
jfrocheabout your coming i forgot to tell you last week that the 1st of november is a holiday here in Belgium17:14
th1aThat's Thursday though?17:15
jfrocheright no problem, just to tell you17:15
th1aI'll need to be in Vilnius by then.17:15
LumiereI'll see you all later17:16
th1ajfroche: Is there any reason I wouldn't be traveling on Wednesday from Brussels to Vilnius?17:16
th1a(such as, it is impossible for me to meet the key person until Wednesday)17:17
jfrocheno no it's not a problem17:17
th1aI'll book that flight then.17:17
ignasfrom brussels to vilnius?17:17
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th1aignas: Yes.17:17
ignasso what days are you going to be in vilnius then?17:17
th1aWed. evening, thurs., fri.  Leaving Saturday.17:18
ignasi kind of thought it was the other way17:18
th1aFirst half of the week?17:18
th1a"I told them the wrong thing" ouch or "it is impossible to meet then" ouch?17:19
ignasmore close to the second one17:19
ignasas nov 1 is a holiday here too17:19
ignasSo I'm landing in Vilnius on Oct. 28.17:19
th1aMaybe I should look at my ticket...17:21
th1aAre you quoting me ignas?17:21
ignasth1a, yes17:21
th1aOK.  Yes, ignas is right.17:22
th1aI'm going to Vilnius first.17:22
th1aSorry jfroche.17:22
th1aWhat I need is some kind of calendaring application to help me keep these things straight.17:23
ignasbecause in lyceum they get a school holiday for the first week of november17:23
th1aOK, so I need to worry about meeting in Brussels around the holiday then.17:23
th1aSo jfroche, I need to know if I need to come to Brussels Tuesday evening.17:24
th1aIs there school Friday in Brussels?17:24
jfrochenot sure about it17:24
th1aI may be having a nice vacation in Brussels for two days.17:25
jfrochewould be great to speak with Nicolas as well17:25
th1aOf course.17:25
th1ajfroche: Well, find out if Wednesday is the only day I can visit the school.17:25
jfrocheno problem i ll get back to you17:26
th1aOK... let me get a quick update in, too.17:26
th1aI've been figuring out how to spend the leftover money since jfroche hasn't been using up his quota.17:27
th1aWe've taken aelkner on.17:27
th1aAlso, I'm going to start paying Andrew, the student who was at EP, to do bugfixes for SchoolTool.17:28
th1aAnd I've been in discussions with Ian Benson, who most of you met at PyCon about extending the work with them.17:29
th1aThey've got 12 schools in England that are going to start piloting their maths curriculum, so17:29
th1ait looks like we are going to support their use of SchoolTool as part of that.17:29
th1aSo we should have some schools in the UK using SchoolTool for assessment data by the end of the year.17:30
th1aOne thing we need to figure out is which gradebook they should use, which is why I17:30
th1awanted CanDo sample data to work.17:30
th1aI plan to work on updating this week.17:31
th1aThat is our hour.17:31
th1aHave a great week folks.17:31
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:31
ignasth1a, as for your configuration screen idea17:32
th1aAh yes.17:32
ignasthere is one small complication17:32
ignasZope is already providing us with database packing views17:33
ignasbut we can't link to them or use them in schooltool17:33
ignasbecause schooltool security policy17:33
ignasonly works on objects inside the schooltool instance17:33
th1aI figured we'd have to reimplement them somehow.17:33
ignasso to make it work we would either have to hack around the security17:33
ignasor reimplement the views17:33
th1aThat doesn't seem hard.17:34
ignasdepends on how much of the views that exist we want17:34
ignasbut yes, it's workable17:35
aelknerignas: after the meeting, could you please help me resolve my failing tests?17:36
ignaswell - the meeting is over17:36
ignasso just lisppaste5 the failures17:36
th1aaelkner: The formal end of the meeting is when I drop the bag of gravel.17:36
aelkneri saw, but then you had forgotten the one ussue, so17:37
lisppaste5aelkner pasted "failing tests" at
ignasaelkner, and that's everything that got printed?17:39
aelknerbesides the ........ stuff before and after17:39
aelknerand this at the end:17:39
aelkner  Ran 3475 tests with 3 failures and 0 errors in 39.432 seconds.17:39
aelknerTests with failures:17:39
aelkner   doctest_evolve (schooltool.generations.tests.test_evolve17)17:39
aelkner   doctest_evolve (schooltool.generations.tests.test_evolve22)17:39
aelkner   doctest_evolve (schooltool.generations.tests.test_evolve23)17:39
aelknermake: *** [test] Error 117:39
ignascould you lisppaste everything from make test to the end17:40
lisppaste5aelkner pasted "make test" at
ignashmm, very interesting17:44
aelknercould i be missing something installed on my system?17:45
aelknerrunning make ftest as well...17:46
ignasi'll have to look at that17:47
aelknerok, thanks.  i'll be here to run any diagnostics on my system if necessary17:48
aelknerbtw make ftest suceeds17:48
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aelknerignas: would you be adverse to me committing my merge while you look into the failing tests so that I can get jelkner using the branch instead of trunk?  I could always fix the branch when you know what went wrong.17:55
ignasyou can just commit it17:55
ignasit will make it easier for me to reproduce the bugs17:55
aelknerok.  i committed jelkner-gradebook17:59
aelknerignas: when I committed to jelkner-gradebook, I didn't get any email notification.  Did you?18:12
aelknershould i have?18:13
ignasi guess18:13
ignasit's schooltool checkins mailing list18:13
aelknerth1a: do you know why i wouldn't have received the notification?18:14
ignasso the email definitely got there18:14
aelkneri must not be on the list18:14
ignasare you getting notifications about checkins to schooltool trunk?18:14
ignasif so - you will get notification about this commit eventually18:14
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aelkneri'm not getting any notifications, so i must not be on the list.18:25
aelknerth1a: please advise18:32
th1a_aelkner: Did you subscribe?18:33
aelknerperhaps not.  i thought i did, but I could do it again.  where do i go?18:34
th1a_There is a link to the mailing lists on the main navigation for schooltool.org18:34
th1a_aelkner: Hm... your account on the list was set to not receive mail for some unknown reason.18:49
th1a_But it should work now.18:50
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aelknerok, thanks.18:50
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aelknerignas: how do I limit ftests to a sub-package of schooltool?20:50
aelknerin CanDo, I just run and specicy cando.sub-package20:50
aelknerI try that in schooltool, and it still runs the whole schooltool package ftests20:50
ignas-s ?20:53
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jelknerbnguyen: Brittney, hi!22:10
jelkneri see you woke up and got will's message22:10
jelknerdid you see the new blueprint?22:10
bnguyenhi jeff22:10
bnguyenno, i haven't really looked at it yet22:10
jelknerin a nut shell, it describes a new project for you...22:11
jelknera seating chart22:11
jelknerhold on...22:11
bnguyeni understand that i'll have to learn javascript22:11
jelknerit has been assigned to you22:12
jelkneri would like to assign it to you and william, but you need to create a group first22:12
jelkneror team, rather22:13
th1abnguyen: I don't think you need javascript at first.22:13
th1aAlthough jelkner's vision may be more elaborate than mine in the long run.22:13
jelknerth1a: i can't image a user interface for this that didn't use the mouse22:14
jelknerwith movable "desks" that can be dragged around the room22:14
th1aI can imagine starting with an UI that doesn't do drag and drop.22:15
th1aAnd by "I can imagine" I mean "I would."22:15
bnguyenyeah, I don't think we're going to start with drag and drop22:16
jelknerhow would you do that?22:16
th1aSet up a grid of desks, in each one you select the relevant student from a list of student in the section.22:16
jelknerthe advantage to starting without the drag and drop is that it will allow focus on the underlying data22:17
jelknerbut the UI would be awful22:17
jelknerso we couldn't actually use it until later22:17
th1aI guess I can't really imagine how great you think the UI is going to be.22:17
th1aDo you mean let the teacher just drop desks wherever they want in the room?22:17
jelknerthe problem with a grid, th1a, is that many teachers (including me) don't arrange there desks that way22:18
th1aDo you have something now that does this?22:18
jelknereasy grade pro22:18
th1aThat works through the web?22:18
th1ajelkner: What you're describing is pretty serious Javascript.22:19
jelknerthat may be22:19
th1aAs in, I've never seen that done in Javascript.22:19
th1aMost people would do that in Flash now.22:19
th1aWhich is presumably not an option.22:19
jelknernot free22:20
jelknerunless gnu flash is ready for that22:20
th1aYou might be able to do it with the new canvas HTML widget I guess.22:20
th1aBut that's pretty cutting edge.22:20
jelknerfirst step would be investigation22:20
jelknerwhy shouldn't SchoolTool be cutting edge for something like this?22:20
jelknerit is not a feature that will break anything else22:21
jelkneranother thing:22:21
jelknerlater we will want to take attendance on the seating chart22:21
bnguyencan you use schooltool for taking attendance?22:21
jelknernot yet22:21
jelknerbut that is coming22:22
jelknerhere is my proposal:22:22
th1abnguyen: Technically you can use SchoolTool to take attendance.22:22
jelknerbnguyen and wjohnsto will investigate the technologies for doing this22:22
th1aThere is a complex, unfinished attendance system in the trunk (usually deactivated).22:23
jelknerif they think it is something they can handle, great22:23
th1aAnd a simpler attendance system ignas created for his school in Vilnius.22:23
bnguyenth1a: are there plans to finish the attendance system?22:23
jelknerif they determine it is reaching a bit too high for now, we rethink this and find something else for them to do.22:23
th1aWe don't know exactly what route we'll take.22:23
jelknercan we take a week to do that and meet again next week?22:24
th1aAnyhow, once you get the layout, taking attendance won't be a big deal.22:24
jelkneror even just do it by email22:24
jelkneri like th1a 's suggestion of starting simple22:24
th1aDo you need to draw desks at non-right angles?22:24
jelknermaybe *much* later22:25
jelknerthat would be sweet22:25
jelknerbut even easy grade pro can't do that yet22:25
bnguyenif teachers want to position their classrooms in weird ways22:25
th1aLook at this:
* jelkner takes a break to look at the link22:26
jelknerYeah, we are bit early to do what we want to do, but it will clearly be possible later22:29
th1aFunny, I was thinking "Ugh!"22:29
th1aYou probably need to start with a Javascript library that makes drag and drop easy.22:29
jelkneri agree22:30
jelknerlet's take a week to investigate22:30
th1aCan you assume the room is square?22:30
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jelknerregular emails sharing information as we all come across it (and by *we* I really mean you and william ;-)22:31
th1aAsk pcardune ;-)22:31
jelknerpcardune: hey paul!22:31
jelknerwhat timing22:31
jelknerwe were discussing having bnguyen and wjohnsto work on a seating chart for SchoolTool22:31
jelknerwe want movable desks that can be dragged around the "classroom" with a mouse22:32
jelknerand then the state of the room can be saved with a click on a "save" button once everything is in place22:32
jelknerwe are wondering if javascript is up to the task?22:32
jelknerand then you popped in22:33
th1aIt is possible.22:33
jelknerwho better to ask?22:33
pcardunelike th1a said, it is possible22:33
pcardunebut somewhat non-trivial22:34
jelknersomewhat non-trivial doesn't sound that bad22:34
jelknerthere is no time pressure on this one22:34
jelknerso they would have whatever time they need to learn to do it22:34
pcarduneYou can just use an existing library to handle the moving around of stuff... either a jquery extension or mochikit22:35
jelknerwhich would you recommend?22:35
pcarduneand then you just need to make sure that some hidden fields are being updated with coordinates so that when it gets "submitted" the coordinates are saved22:36
bnguyenpcardune makes it sound so easy22:36
pcarduneI would check to see if there is a jquery extension that does it first, because I find jquery to be easier22:36
jelknerit won't be "easy" in the sense that you will have a lot of new things to learn22:37
pcardunebut I'm pretty sure mochikit has something for that right out of the box22:37
jelknerbut it won't be too difficult either, once you learn javascript22:37
pcardunein fact, there may be an example on their website of that sort of thing already22:37
jelknerand that is something you will want to do in your study anyway22:37
jelknerso it is an opportunity for you ;-)22:38
bnguyenok, so we'll take a week to investigate22:38
jelknercan we meet next tuesday?22:39
jelknerat 6:30 pm EST or so?22:39
bnguyeni'll still be in school22:39
jelknerwhat time can you meet?22:39
bnguyenmaybe around 7 pm EST22:39
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jelknerthat could work22:39
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jelkneri'll check with wjohnsto tommorow22:40
jelknerasynchronously may work too22:40
jelkner(just using email)22:40
jelknerwe can be flexible22:40
jelknerif there is something we need to discuss live22:40
jelknerwe can meet here22:41
bnguyenemail would probably work better22:41
jelknerotherwise, email will do22:41
jelknergood luck, bnguyen, may the force be with you!22:41
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jelknerhey mattva01!22:42
th1aAlso, whatever library we use is a SchoolTool dependency.22:42
jelkneraelkner: you ready?22:42
th1aSo we should use something consistent with our other Javascript work.22:42
aelkneri'm on the phone with matt as speak22:42
jelknertrue, th1a, so we need to be careful about that22:42
th1aWe don't want to carry around two Javascript libraries.22:42
th1aSo that narrows the research.22:42
jelknerdidn't pcardune already use mochkit?22:43
th1aI think he switched us to jsquery.22:43
jelknerthat should be the determining factor, then22:43
Mattva01svn co
Mattva01thats the command22:43
jelknerpcardune: can you shed some light on this?22:43
jelknerwhich javascript libraries have we already used in SchoolTool/CanDo?22:44
jelknercan jquery do what we want (the drag and drop stuff?)22:44
pcardunenot out of the box22:44
pcardunebut there are tons of extensions to jQuery22:45
pcardunewe switched to jquery because it does ajax a lot more cleanly than mochikit22:45
jelknerso we need to look into that22:45
pcardunethe only consideration is about the client having to download the library each time it is loaded22:45
pcardunebut you could use mochikit on just that one page and it would be ok22:45
aelknersvn co
pcarduneok, gotta go to class22:46
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jelknerbnguyen: so, look into jquery first22:46
jelknerand then mochikit if jquery doesn't have what we need22:47
jelkneryou will need a month or so to do a study of javascript22:47
jelknerbut what we need to determine in the next week is whether we can find libraries that will do what we need22:48
aelknerth1a: matt is having trouble checking out jelkner-gradebook.  Did you create it?22:48
jelkner*after* you learn javascript of course22:48
th1aI'm a little dubious about the idea that this feature is worth adding a whole javascript library to our dependencies.22:48
th1aaelkner: I did create it.22:48
aelknerso why can't we check it out with:22:49
aelknersvn co
aelknerit gives 405 method not allowed22:49
jelknerth1a: so let's hope there is a jquery extension somewhere that will work for us22:49
bnguyenaelkner: i checked out that branch last week with no trouble22:49
jelknerbnguyen: can you check again?22:49
bnguyenth1a: so if there is no jquery extension should I not even look into mochikit?22:50
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wjohnstobnguyen jelkner hello22:50
jelknerwjohnsto: check out the log22:51
th1aaelkner: You need to use svn+ssh22:51
wjohnstomy mom had different plans for me after school, sorry22:51
jelknernot a problem22:51
th1aOr is this read-only?22:51
jelknerbut look at the log now, so you can catch up22:51
jelknerthen chime in...22:51
aelknerth1a: matt doesn't have commit access.  is it still ok for him to check it out that way22:51
th1aThen he should just do:22:52
th1asvn co
aelknerthat works!  thanks22:53
jelkneri need to leave, is there anything else ya'll need from me?22:54
jelknerhearing nothing, /me makes for the door...22:55
aelknerth1a: we need to come up with a view for students that comes up instead of the calendar22:55
aelknerthat lists the sections that the student is in22:56
th1aEssentially, the dashboard!22:56
jelknerwjohnsto: did you see the log?22:56
aelknerbut need it be the dashboard?22:56
jelkneraelkner: no!22:56
jelknerthe dashboard contents22:57
jelknerbut as a main screen, not a dashboard22:57
bnguyeni need to go22:57
bnguyenbye everyone22:57
jelknerbnguyen: bye, i don't know what happened to wjohnsto22:57
jelknerbut we can follow up with him later22:57
bnguyenhe's probably reading the logs22:57
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wjohnstoI am here23:00
wjohnstoI'm reading the logs jelkner23:00
aelknerwjohnsto: they both left23:10
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aelknerth1a, ignas: i need to discuss the default application view with you23:28
aelknerright now it looks in application preferences and redirects to the calendar view if the user wants23:28
aelknerbut jelkner doesn't want his students to even have to think about application preferences23:29
aelknerhe just wants the dashboard (which i will be modifying to have no admin stuff on it) to come up automatiucally23:29
aelknerand it won't have the annoying button at the bottom for hiding and showing23:30
aelknerit will just come up instead of the calendar and fill the body slot23:30
aelkneris it ok with you both if i change the application view to redirect to the dashboard unless the user is an admin user?23:31
ignasyou just override index.html on application23:31
ignaswhich you can do for cando23:31
aelknerthis is not cando23:31
th1aaelkner: Sorry I wandered off.23:31
aelknerthis is schooltool's gradebook23:31
aelknerthat i'm working on giving jelkner access to23:32
aelknerand solving the many access problems inherent in schooltool23:32
aelknerfor instance:23:32
aelknera student (or the parent) signs in and gets a calendar23:32
aelknerthat's already bad23:32
aelknerthey should get a simple view with all their sections in it23:32
aelknerand clicking on a section shoulc take them to their grades, nothing more23:33
th1aPerhaps you could make calendar or dashboard by default a system wide preference.23:33
aelknerbut which one?23:33
aelkneri mean we as developers need to chose23:33
ignasth1a: the problem at the moment is23:33
th1aMy view is that we'll be moving to a dashboard as the default view in the future.23:34
ignasthat lyceum for example, does not depend on dashboard23:34
th1aBut not now.23:34
ignasas well as lot's of other things23:34
ignasso you could just add the override in dashboard23:34
ignasto make dashboard the default front page23:34
ignasif dashboard is available23:34
th1aThat sounds reasonable.23:35
aelknerhow do i override index.html?23:35
th1aHere's the thing right now: at least the default view -- the calendar -- looks pretty good.23:35
ignasaelkner: just as any other view23:35
th1aWe can't make another view the default until it looks and works at least as good.23:35
aelknerindex.html is already registered for ISchootoolApllication23:36
aelknerto go to the app view23:36
aelknerso how do i prevent that23:36
aelknerin dashboard23:36
aelknerone can't register the same view twice23:36
aelknerthat would be a conflict23:36
ignasdo you know how zcml overrides work?23:37
aelkneri've sen them around23:37
aelkneri'm not fluent however, but i could look into it23:38
aelknercould you give me the 5sec explanation to save me time23:38
aelknerwhere does the includeoverrides directive go?23:39
ignasin your case23:39
ignasin site.zcml23:39
ignasyou will be using23:39
ignasyou can try23:39
ignasso you <include dashboard>23:39
aelkneror should site.zcml include from overrides/*.zcml like it does with plugins23:39
ignasand includeoverrides dashboard file="overrides.zcml"23:40
aelknerwe don't have plugable overrides yet23:40
aelknershould we?23:40
ignaspluggable overrides?23:41
aelknerlike i suggested above23:41
aelknerchanging site.zcml to include iverrides from an overrides dir23:41
aelknerlike it does with plugins23:42
aelknerwouldn't that constitute plugable overrides23:42
ignasi would try <includeOverrides > inside the plugin slug first23:42
aelknerthat would be simple enough23:42
aelknerso in addition to the include package i have a second line for includeOverrides?23:43
aelkneri grepped for includeOverrides and found them used in the packages themselves23:45
aelknerwould that be a better aproach?23:45
aelknerjust put the directive in schooltool.dashboard's configure23:45
ignasok, that won't work, just tried it23:45
ignasthe level of includes is not right23:45
aelknerit has to come from within the package itself, right?23:45
aelknerexample: stapp2007 has one23:46
ignasthe level of includes matters23:47
ignasso if you include Foo23:47
ignasyou can only override foo in the same level that you included foo23:47
ignasso if you include
ignasthen you must include dashboard.overrides in the same level23:47
ignasincluding plugin.zcml that overrides app.browser won't work23:48
ignasa question23:48
ignaswhat are your plans for the gradebook branch?23:48
aelkneri'll need you to approve its integration into trunk eventutally23:49
ignasfrom what i understood the initial plan was to keep it separate from the trunk23:49
ignaswhat i would suggest you to do, is to add a stub module23:49
aelknerwe can't allow it to diverge for too long or integration will be painful23:49
ignaslike stapp200723:50
ignasname it jelkner200723:50
ignasor whatever23:50
ignasand create a configure.zcml23:50
ignasthat includes all the right things23:50
ignasand use that instead of stapp200723:50
ignasbecause what you will need is a separate configuration for jelkner23:51
ignashaving modules that modify database (like gradebook)23:51
ignasas plugins is not right23:51
ignasas they are not plugins23:51
ignasyou can plug them in, but you can't plug them out23:51
ignasok, you can't even plug them in if schooltool was started without them available23:51
ignasso you will have a place for functional tests that test your configuration (the fact that dashboard is the front page)23:52
ignasand a place for generation scripts specific to jelkners configuration23:52
ignasmigrating gradebook that does not exist in any other schooltool configuration will get you in trouvle23:52
ignasand neither I nor jfroche can afford changes to the UI that were not coordinated with our schools23:53
ignasno matter how much jelkner wants them23:53
aelknerbut can't we have one code base that is plugable?23:54
aelknerso jelkner puts the slugs he wants and you and jfroeche put in the ones that you want23:54
ignasit's not about codebase23:55
ignasmaking code pluggable is easy23:55
ignasmaking database pluggable23:55
ignasis quite difficult23:55
aelkneri'm missing your meaning on making database plugable23:56
ignasespecially if application was not designed to have database level plugability23:56
ignasaelkner: evolution scripts for example23:56
aelkneroh yeah23:56
aelknerthey don't currently take into consideration what the configuration is23:56
ignasthey can't23:56
aelknerso isn't the soluton to come up with a common database23:57
ignasit is not feasible to know and manage all possble configuration23:57
aelknera datbase that has everything, but is not exposed23:57
aelkneri don't know for sure what i'm saying actually23:57
ignasthere are some gotchas23:58
ignasi mean it is solvable23:58
ignasbut we don't have time for that23:58
aelknerbrb: bathroom break23:58

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