IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2007-09-10

*** didymo has joined #schooltool00:15
*** ignas has joined #schooltool01:47
*** fsufitch has joined #schooltool03:07
fsufitchaelkner, i'm baaack03:12
aelknerhey there03:12
fsufitchh/o let me start up compiz03:12
fsufitchaaah much better03:12
fsufitchso, aelkner, wassup?03:16
aelknernot much.  working on some menu problems.03:17
aelkneryou got one issue to resolve and then write ftests, right?03:17
*** ignas has quit IRC03:38
fsufitchLumiere, i recall you knowing a lot of css; do u know any way to make a something appear after every newline in the html?03:42
fsufitchlike, dynamically, so that if the browser is resized, the newline displays change03:42
fsufitchall that i found is :before, but that's not very useful03:43
fsufitchblah, ur away >_<03:48
aelknerfsufitch: why can't you use <br />?03:55
fsufitchum, because all computers and printers are different04:03
fsufitchso the page break will be at different places04:03
fsufitchthis is why i used divs in the first place instead of tables04:04
fsufitchto take advantage of word wrapping04:04
fsufitchaelkner, ping04:04
fsufitchso do u know some way to configure word-wrapped text/elements to have something special before every line?04:04
fsufitch'cuz the only solution left if this is not viable is to hard code the student names to appear every 20 columns or something04:05
aelknersorry i don't even know if that04:05
aelkneris possible04:05
fsufitchso far from my searchings, it isnt04:05
fsufitchit's either that hard coding, or making the students run vertically with the competencies horizontally04:06
fsufitchand keying the students too04:07
fsufitchbut i want to avoid that if possible04:07
fsufitchjust because it would be extremely uglu04:07
aelknerwait.  this is all to handle the browser resize scenario?04:08
aelknerfsufitch: ?04:08
aelknerwhy worry about that?04:08
fsufitchbecause the paper sized and dpi measurements will differ from printer to printer04:09
fsufitchso the table should be able to take care of itself when it wraps04:09
aelkneri don't see what resizing the browser would have to do with printing04:09
fsufitchit would simulate changing the paper size04:09
fsufitchif it works for browser resizing it should work for paper resizing04:10
aelknerare you sure?  i've never heard of a user resizing the browser and that resulting in a different paper size04:10
* fsufitch is wondering how incomprehensible he is being04:10
aelknercan you get it to work for the normal case?04:11
fsufitchi can hard-code it for the normal case04:11
fsufitchbut what is a "normal case"04:11
fsufitchan 8"x11" printer?04:11
aelknercan the report fit on that paper size?04:11
fsufitchbecause it word-wraps the columns04:12
fsufitchthe problem is that the student names column does not appear but once04:12
fsufitchon the first line04:12
fsufitchi need to make it appear for every line04:12
fsufitchshould i send u a screenshot to clarify what i'm talking about?04:12
fsufitchok = yes/no?04:13
aelknersure, send me the screenshot04:13
fsufitchaelkner, do u see what i mean?04:18
aelknerok, i see that your div is wrapping, but it probably shouldn't04:18
aelkneryou picked a good use case cause Cindy Schall's class has some WIDE competency groups04:19
fsufitch*Sigh* then what have i been working for all day yesterday?04:19
aelknerso why not let it run off an 8 1/2 by 11 page?04:19
fsufitchu mean get cut off?04:19
aelknerCindy can always pick landscape if she needs it04:20
fsufitchyeah, except one of her comp groups is too wide for even landscape04:20
aelknernot for 11x17 i bet04:20
aelknerbut do you see how that can be her problem04:20
aelknerusers always have to deal with these issues04:21
fsufitchnot all users have 11x17 clipboards available04:21
fsufitchthe point of these sheets, or so i understand, is to print out and jot down grades on them04:21
aelknerdon't worry about that.  let her04:21
fsufitchlet her what?04:22
fsufitchdeal with the problems?04:22
aelknerlet her pcik the paper to fit the report04:23
fsufitchall users can do that04:23
fsufitchso i'll leave it as is04:23
fsufitchand if the paper's too small, then it wraps and they have to figure out which students it's talking about04:23
fsufitchso pick the optimal size, kids ;)04:23
fsufitchnow, i  need to fix some styling up a bit, cuz it's ugly04:23
aelknerit should never wrap.  why do you say that?04:24
fsufitchthink of it from a teacher's perspective:04:24
fsufitchwhat would be more useful?04:24
fsufitchhaving ALL the competencies, but having some trouble telling which students the cells refer to04:24
fsufitchor just having SOME of the competencies, with the rest cut off?04:24
aelknerhow would they be cut off?04:25
fsufitchthe ones that would appear in the second case appear in the first anyway04:25
fsufitcha table is a block element04:25
fsufitchit doesn't wrap04:25
fsufitchso, if it runs out of space on the page, it tries to print off the page04:25
fsufitchat which the printer says "nono"04:25
fsufitchand prints only what's within the margins04:25
aelknernot true04:25
aelknerso it truncates, i know04:26
aelknerso what's the problem?04:26
aelknerit's ok that it truncates04:26
aelknerthat's the user's problem04:26
fsufitchwell, the columns that vanish WITH the truncation, appear in this example that i sent u, but they're just on a new line04:26
aelknerthey will know to pick the right parer size/orientation04:26
fsufitchi think the user would be a bit happier if the stuff actually appeared, albeit wrongly placed, than if it dissapeared completely04:27
aelkneri don't agree04:27
aelkneri think the stuff should not appear04:27
aelknerand the user will see that and know what to do04:27
aelknerjust let it disappear, ok?04:28
fsufitchat how technophobic some teachers that i know are, they'll think it's a flaw in cando04:28
fsufitchfor the techies, i think it's fine too04:28
fsufitch*sigh* ok, i got two versions, one that wraps and one that doesnt04:28
fsufitchi think we should let the people we're basing our XP on decide04:28
aelknerjust keep the one that doesn't and let's move on from this04:28
fsufitchi.e. Lumiere and dwelsh04:29
fsufitchi'm keeping both, just so that my work from yesterday turning tables into divs wouldn't have gone to waste ;)04:29
fsufitchand i'll make them both accessible from the interface04:29
aelkneri'm tired of typing this discussion cayse it's too slow.  call me04:29
fsufitchfor now that'll have to do04:29
fsufitchwhich phone #?04:30
fsufitchhome? cell?\04:30
fsufitchor PM it to me04:30
fsufitchoop, well, there it goes over the internet ;)04:30
fsufitchok, i'll call04:30
fsufitchalso, aelkner, my parents object to me being on the phone after 2200 hrs, so it'll have to be short04:31
fsufitchaelkner, what does this mean?05:20
fsufitchFile "/home/filip/cando-trunk/src/cando/gradebook/browser/README.txt", line 306, in README.txt05:20
fsufitchFailed example:05:20
fsufitch    teacher.getLink('Printable View')05:20
fsufitchDifferences (ndiff with -expected +actual):05:20
fsufitch    + <Link text='Printable View' url='http://localhost/++skin++NewCanDo/sections/1/gradeCompetencies/@@print.html'>05:20
fsufitchi don't recall a <link>05:20
fsufitchit should be an <a>05:20
aelknerdid you google it?05:20
fsufitchwhat can i google?05:21
fsufitchbtw, somebody has to do something about the comp gradebook05:22
fsufitchit's extremely slow in loading05:22
fsufitchoh, i'm stupid05:23
fsufitchi'm supposed to click on the link!05:23
*** th1a has joined #schooltool05:24
Lumiereask in the meeting tomorrow fsufitch05:30
fsufitchLumiere, ask about what?05:31
fsufitchwait, and at what time is the meeting?05:31
fsufitchi got school, remembeR?05:31
*** wbrady has quit IRC05:46
*** fsufitch has quit IRC05:53
*** didymo has quit IRC07:32
*** th1a has quit IRC07:49
*** lameiro has joined #schooltool08:14
*** lameiro has quit IRC08:57
*** lameiro has joined #schooltool09:08
*** lameiro has quit IRC10:51
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool11:36
*** ignas has joined #schooltool11:51
*** th1a has joined #schooltool15:20
*** CrippsFX has joined #schooltool15:37
*** CrippsFX has left #schooltool15:39
* ignas learned a way to have "search" for at least some translations in rosetta ;)15:55
th1aIs that a new feature or did you just find it?15:57
ignasnope, it's shell script magic16:00
ignasapparently launchpad numbers msgids the same way they are numbered in pot file16:01
ignasgrep '^msgid' schooltool.pot | nl will give you a list of msgids with numbers16:01
ignas IN HERE/+translate16:01
ignaswith NUMBER being one less than the one given by the script16:01
ignasshould give you the message you want16:02
ignasbut way better than paging through 100 pages to find the msgid you need16:02
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool16:24
th1aGood morning ignas, Lumiere, aelkner.16:30
th1ajfroche is on vacation.16:31
aelknergood morning16:31
th1aI'll start...16:31
Lumierehere now16:32
aelknerLumiere doesn't seem to be here16:32
th1aWe're going to start needing to depend more on Malone and Blueprints on LP.16:32
th1aSo I've been going through bugs.16:32
th1aI'm a little confused because I think there are some new bugs that I don't remember seeing.16:32
th1aSo I don't know whether I didn't get email notifications, or if I didn't recognize them as not-spam, or if I just forgot them.16:33
th1aAnyhow, right now I'm trying to weed out "new" bugs that are not new.16:33
th1aIf I assign you ("you" meaning ignas or jinty in this case) a "new" bug,16:34
th1aI want you to confirm/triage the bug.16:34
th1aIf you don't want to fix it immediately, you can unassign yourself AFTER confirming the bug.16:34
ignasi have 20 emails for bugs in my inbox marked as unread16:35
th1aI've got a list of them to go through myself this afternoon.16:35
ignasso i would not forget to go through all of them16:35
th1aWell, right now it is spam city as well as I'm sorting these out.16:35
th1aEspecially if I change my mind a couple times for each bug ;-)16:35
Lumierethe resource not-found bugs is one we were noticing quietly in the root-error checker while we were working on other stuff in cando (from the schooltool skin)16:35
th1aI was just wondering if the resources were actually used.16:36
LumiereI don't know, but I assume if the error is coming up16:37
Lumierethat there's something to it16:37
ignasLumiere: can you give me a link to the error/bug?16:38
Lumiereignas: bug is in LP16:40
Lumiereerror was in just about every page with devmode on16:40
Lumiereif you looked at the root-error-reporting page16:40
Lumiereit's not breaking pages16:40
ignasLumiere: which bug is it?16:40
ignasthank you16:41
th1aAnyhow, I don't want to get bogged down in a specific bug.16:42
ignasthough i think it's a different bug from the one Lumiere seems to be talking about, this one is more interesting ;)16:42
th1aignas, would you like to update us?16:42
ignasapparently we still have a way to schedule resources for sections16:42
th1aOh, sorry.16:43
ignasin lyceum - i have disabled that view16:43
th1aIt is this one:
ignasas resource/section relationship needs a lot of work16:44
ignasthese should not be a problem anymore with schooltool trunk at least16:44
th1aThen mark it as fix committed?16:45
ignasi'll see if it's still there16:45
ignasand do that16:45
th1aThe point here is that I may be paying people to fix some bugs soon, so I need to know which ones are relevant.16:45
th1aAnyhow, what have you been up to, ignas?16:46
ignasdeployed a new version of schooltool/lyceum on , did some translations that were quite obvious16:46
ignasshould have student list this evening16:47
ignasor tomorrow morning16:47
ignasworking on lyceum gradebook16:47
ignashating setuptools16:47
th1aYou're always hating setuptools.16:48
ignasapparently 0.9a6 version of setuptools can't install buildout16:48
ignasbecause of a bug16:48
ignashad to download newer setuptools and hack pythonpath to make lyceum-buildout work16:48
ignasand i was so sure there is no way to break my buildout setup16:49
th1aWhat are you doing on the gradebook?16:49
ignasclenup and missing tests mostly16:50
ignassome refactoring as i found better  ways to do some things16:50
th1aAnything else?16:51
ignasthat's all i have been busy with16:51
th1aaelkner & Lumiere?16:51
Lumierewe got the xml from VA CTE Resource Center last week16:52
Lumiereand got that importing16:52
Lumiere(a few bugs to work out still)16:52
aelknerLumiere: ?16:53
Lumiereaelkner: eh am I off a week?16:53
* Lumiere goes to getmore caffiene16:53
* Lumiere stfu's and lets aelkner talk16:53
aelknerwe need to discuss what i'll be doing with schooltool money16:54
aelknerso far i've been working in cando's trunk16:54
th1aWell, ignas and I have to discuss that first.16:54
aelknerso discuss it16:54
th1aWe shall.16:55
aelknernot presently though16:55
th1aNot at this moment.16:55
aelkneri thought this meeting was partly for that16:55
* ignas has some homework to do first16:55
aelknercando needs sif work16:56
Lumierethe meeting for money16:56
Lumiereis about jeff's gradebook16:56
Lumiereand bug fixing16:56
th1aWell, we're probably not able to pay for SIF.16:56
aelkneras far as i know that's what cando needs16:57
Lumierewe have other more pressing issues then sif16:57
aelknerfor example?16:57
Lumierecurriculum upload16:58
Lumierestudent evidence16:58
th1aI'd also prefer to not pay for CanDo work.  We've got plenty of SchoolTool tasks.16:58
aelknerjelkner said that you had money for CanDo work16:59
th1aWell... I have money.16:59
th1aBut I'd prefer to spend it on SchoolTool.16:59
aelknermaybe jelkner didn't understand you completely17:00
th1aAnyhow, I don't want to get into all this right now.17:00
aelkneri'm only mentioning it cause i was asked to discuss it with you this meeting17:00
th1aThe first step in the process might be further reducing the difference between CanDo and SchoolTool.17:00
th1aThe greater the distinction between the two, the harder it is for me to give you money.17:01
th1aAnyhow... let's discuss jelkner's spaz attack.17:01
th1aHe needs a branch for his gradebook.17:01
th1aWe seem to have reached the conclusion that pcardune's latest gradebook code is in trunk.17:02
Lumierethat was what pcardune said17:02
th1aSo he needs a branch.17:02
Lumierein an email Sept/4/200717:02
th1aI can make it, but I'll have to get out my Subversion manual.17:02
th1aIf someone else wants to do it...17:02
th1aOther than that we just need to get committer agreements and keys from his interns.17:03
th1aAnd they'll need to merge from trunk into their branch as the year goes by.17:03
th1aIt shouldn't be too tricky since other people probably won't be changing the gradebook package at the same time.17:04
th1aDoes all that make sense?17:05
aelknerso it's will brady and brittney that will be working on it17:05
aelknerhave they gotten ack to you about the commiter agreements17:06
th1aI don't think I've explicitly sent them a link to the agreement yet.17:07
aelknerso i guess they're waiting for that17:07
th1aI guess I need to dig up email addresses for them.17:08
th1aOK... other things.17:08
th1aWe've been muddling along about releasing a new alpha.17:09
th1aPartly because I was just going to announce it when Gutsy comes out.17:09
th1aBut now there isn't much motivation to wait for that, so jinty and I just need to pick a date and have the packages ready.17:09
Lumierealpha3 got released last week17:09
Lumieredidn't it?17:09
th1aWell, perhaps secretly.17:10
th1aThis is what I'm referring to as "muddling along."17:10
th1aSome packages may or may not have been made.17:10
th1aSo that needs to be clarified, obviously.17:11
th1aNot much more to say about that without jinty though.17:12
th1aI guess I'll make the branch for jelkner.17:13
th1aI guess that's all I've got.17:13
ignasa warning - i am playing with launchpad-bzr so if you will start getting lyceum branch checkin emails it's me testing stuff17:14
aelknerLumiere: Welsh also wanted me to set up a meeting for 11:45 involving you, me, welsh, jelkner and matt17:15
th1aaelkner: Regarding paying you -- the situation last week seemed to switch quickly from "you might want to start paying aelkner at some point" to "you'll need to start paying aelkner RIGHT NOW."  ignas and I just need some time to discuss it.17:16
LumiereI may be out to lunch with wanda perkins17:16
*** fsufitch has joined #schooltool17:16
Lumierehi fsufitch17:16
fsufitchLumiere: amazing, i can do IRC from school!17:16
aelknerth1a: i think jelkner also needs to clarify what work he needs me to do17:16
fsufitchi'm going to be on and off as i need to be in class too :)17:16
ignasas for cando/schooltool cooperation - i think gradebook is a very nice place for that17:17
ignashaving a working US gradebook17:17
ignaswould be quite nice for our generic release17:17
aelknerthat project is for wbrady and brittney, though17:17
th1aI'd be happy to have aelkner working on it.17:18
aelknerthat would be ok for me, but then the kids would be pulled off of it, and they are expecting to work on it17:18
LumiereI would suggest17:18
Lumierehaving will/brittney work on gradebook17:19
aelknerthat was the plan17:19
Lumierewith aelkner serving as the mentor / first code review17:19
th1aThere is an infinite amount of work that can be done on gradebook.17:19
Lumiereth1a: not really17:19
th1aNo, really.17:20
aelknerjelkner is our customer on that17:20
Lumiereth1a: there is infinite work to perfect everything17:20
th1aAnyhow, I'm just sayin'.17:20
Lumierethere is a finite amount of work that needs to be done to have a useable gradebook17:20
fsufitchi g2g to class17:23
fsufitchi'll bbs17:23
* fsufitch is in class17:23
Lumierefsufitch has a sweet hostmask17:24
Lumiereaelkner: in general, meetings need to be setup more then 3 hours in advance17:25
aelknerum, ok17:26
Lumiere(talking about the attempted 11:45)17:26
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:26
Lumierethank th1a17:26
Lumiereaelkner: I make my plans at least 24 hours in advance most of the time...17:26
aelknerok, next time i'll send an email sooner17:28
aelkneranyway, one of the things dwelsh decided recently is that we don't need to keep old competencies around17:28
aelknerthis time around at least17:29
aelkneras we don't have that many users from last year anyway17:29
Lumierethat's up to hom17:29
Lumiereerr him17:29
LumiereI disagree with it17:29
aelknerand if they want their old data, we can refer them to the cando2006 instance17:29
Lumierebecause I explicitly told teachers already17:29
Lumierethat their data was still there17:29
Lumiereand they were very VERY happy about it17:29
aelknerwell you see welsh a lot around, so bring it up with him17:30
LumiereI won't17:30
LumiereI am not at ACC today17:30
fsufitchLumiere: beowulf is the machine i'm using17:30
fsufitchanyway, i have to do my work now17:30
fsufitchsupercomputer stuff in C (ewww, no python)17:30
fsufitchanyway, i'll ttyl17:31
Lumiereif you have C questions17:31
Lumierelemme know17:31
fsufitchi'll be on google talk17:31
* Lumiere is a C person17:31
*** fsufitch has quit IRC17:31
*** mattva01 has joined #schooltool17:57
*** mattva01 has joined #schooltool18:01
*** lameiro has joined #schooltool18:26
*** dwelsh has joined #schooltool18:40
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool18:44
jelknergood morning (what's left of it)18:45
*** wjohnsto has joined #schooltool18:45
jelknerhow did things go this morning?18:45
*** mgedmin has quit IRC18:48
dwelshgood morning18:48
dwelshshall we stay on #schooltool?18:48
dwelshI'm on phone with aelkner18:48
aelknerjelkner: check the log18:49
jelkneris there anything else we need to discuss?18:49
jelkneri've sent an email to brittney, william, and schooltool-dev18:49
dwelshjason will be here in 10mins.18:50
dwelshare the schooltool/gradebook/workflow issues sorted out?18:50
jelkneri saw aelkner's changes to CanDo permitting folks to change password18:50
dwelshyes, looks great18:50
aelknerjelkner: you already saw them?  cool18:50
dwelshtop prize today... getting an instance up with the new 2007 comps18:50
*** lfaraone has joined #schooltool18:50
dwelshthen CTAE teachers should be ready to rock18:51
dwelshaelkner says that import of Lee Capps xml is working18:51
dwelshjeff, are you near your phone?18:51
dwelshI'm calling with Alan18:51
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool18:53
jelknermattva01: do you have any questions about the cando update process18:56
mattva01not really18:57
mattva01well, actaully I would like to have a time to make sure the build is not broken18:58
mattva01every week18:58
jelkneraelkner: regarding competencies, can i import them now?19:18
jelknershould i import *all* of them (i guess that is the only way)19:18
jelkneri'll ask matt to do that if you give the word19:18
jelknerwhere would he get the data?19:19
mattva01what is the new way of getting competencies19:20
aelknerjelkner: are you starting with a fresh database in your instance?19:20
aelknermattva01: ?19:21
mattva01no we are not starting with a new database19:23
*** lameiro has quit IRC19:26
aelknermattva01: i'd get with dwelsh to discuss why he doesn't think importing comps into an existing database is a good idea.19:26
aelkneri can give you my version, but i'd check with him, too19:27
ignasanyone from schooltool-owners team got an email for a lyceum-buildout checkin?19:27
*** mattva01 has quit IRC19:31
*** lfaraone has quit IRC19:32
ignasth1a: ayt?19:32
th1aignas: Yep.19:33
ignascould you try and set schooltool-owners team email to schooltool-checkins mailing list, or maybe create a related SchoolTool checkins team with such an email?19:33
th1aFor the notifications?19:34
th1aWe would have to add LaunchPad to the list, right?19:34
*** wjohnsto has quit IRC19:35
ignasat the moment emails are originating from noreply@launchpad.net19:35
ignasso - yes19:35
th1aCan you do that?19:36
ignasth1a: just asked mgedmin to do that19:36
th1aOK.  I'll try.19:36
*** jelkner has quit IRC19:54
aelknermattva01: ayt?20:21
*** ignas has quit IRC20:35
*** dwelsh has quit IRC21:19
*** mgedmin has quit IRC21:46

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!