IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2007-07-06

Lumierethe problem is the utility is completely undershadowed because nothing uses it right00:01
LumiereI forsee it being entirely ajax and the only way anyone wants to find data in the system00:01
Lumiereat least for a teacher or studen00:01
fsufitchpcardune, the "zapi" thing you told me to use is nonexistant00:01
eldarwell, the skilldriver plug for it that i had chris right is gonnna be useful00:02
fsufitchwhat do i need to import?00:02
pcardunefsufitch: it's there: from import zapi00:02
fsufitchok ty00:02
pcardunezapi.absoluteURL(thing, self.request)00:02
fsufitchand eldar, isn't it spelled write?00:02
th1aOK... I don't necessarily object to having some kind of quick ajax-y access to the info on the dashboard.00:02
th1aBut I do object to where it is placed and how it is implemented in terms of UI.00:02
Lumierethen lets make it right00:03
Lumiereand not kill it00:03
th1aI guess I'm not sure what the real difference in performance is here.00:03
th1aIs the info in the dashboard cached?00:04
th1aOr is it loaded each time you hit the tab?00:04
fsufitchpcardune, i got it working for persons00:04
eldarloaded when you hit the tab00:04
pcardunefsufitch: cool00:04
th1aSo is it really that much quicker than loading a new page?00:04
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Lumierebut, it's just the data being loaded00:04
Lumierenot the entire skin00:04
th1aI can't really judge because I'm just doing it locally.00:04
fsufitchpcardune, ... no other response?00:05
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Lumierefsufitch: he may be looking at some other stuff atm ;)00:05
eldarth1a, it is not the load time, it is the act of clicking to go on a new page, the average user does not like that00:05
pcardunefsufitch: does it work with resources too?00:05
fsufitchi need to register a template for resources00:05
th1aeldar: If the average user does not like going to a new page, we made a big mistake in developing a web application.00:06
fsufitchand just change 1 thing00:06
Lumiereth1a: loading part of a page is not the same as loading a full page00:06
Lumiereusers are really liking ajax because you only ever load the skin once00:06
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Lumiereyou're just loading data beyond that00:06
eldarth1a, if it the dashboard is supposed to be a quick panel kind of thing, then having to go to that page every time someone needs it defeats the purpose of it being a quick panel00:07
fsufitchpcardune, how would i check inside the page template whether the context is a person container or a resource container?00:08
Lumierefsufitch: shouldn't you know by context?00:08
fsufitchi mean with a tal:condition00:09
th1aeldar: It just depends on how much quicker it actually is.00:09
Lumierefsufitch: I am just saying that the url should be different which means some piece of data isn't the same00:10
Lumiereth1a: we can look at it in a few cases... 1) KB of code generated00:10
fsufitcht3h_sood, thx00:10
fsufitchalso, you can lose the game again00:11
t3h_soodfsufitch: STOP FAILING AT LIFE00:11
Lumiere2) number of calls you need to do to generate said code00:11
th1aLumiere: I'm just interested in real world performance over a network.00:12
Lumierejelkner agrees with eldar and I00:12
th1aWhen I'm doing everything locally, there is no real difference in response time.00:12
Lumierehe likes the dashboard and doesn't want it to go anywhere00:13
Lumiereth1a: I was talking about response tiems00:13
jelknerth1a: my 2 cents - all the students here who have used cando *like* the dashboard00:13
jelkneryou are the only one i know of who is against it00:14
LumiereI just don't know how to standardly test full response time00:14
th1ath1a: Subjective observation is fine by me.00:14
Lumierewhat I CAN test is how much code we transfer00:14
jelknernavigation must be *really* easy for the app to work well00:14
Lumiereand how many calls we make to create that code00:14
jelknerif you fix the rest of the navigation (which is a mess)00:14
jelknerthen I will be less concerned about the dashboard, but I still really like it00:15
th1a1) I did completely redesign the navigation a year ago, but have never been able to get that into trunk.00:16
th1a2) The current implementation of the dashboard is clearly a workaround for otherwise screwed up navigation.00:17
th1aBut you can't keep hanging new tabs and widgets to fix that problem.00:18
th1aAnyhow... when you're running CanDo on a remote server, how much of a difference in load time is there between using the pop-up dashboard and just reloading an average page?00:19
Lumiereth1a: it's noticable00:19
Lumiereit takes 2-3 _seconds_ less00:20
Lumiereon an old cando00:21
Lumiere(acc's instance)00:21
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th1aWell, if we need to keep the Ajax for performance, fine.00:23
th1aBut I think the UI implementation should be more standard.00:24
th1aNo other web application I've ever seen has a floating tab at the bottom of the frame.00:27
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fsufitchpcardune, it works by resource too00:30
fsufitchso proud ^_^00:30
th1aWhat if it acted as a pop-up window when you click on your name or "Dashboard" in the top bar?00:31
eldarthen the user would have to switch between windows to use it00:33
th1aI mean a tricky CSS implemented window.00:33
eldaris the idea of a slide up that bothersome?00:33
th1aIt is a completely random metaphor.00:34
th1aPlus it takes time and processor cycles.00:35
Lumiereth1a: firefox does something like the dashboard00:36
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Lumierelp does it too00:36
Lumierewe'll put it where you want top left right or whatever00:37
pcarduneth1a: have you ever used launchpad's help?00:37
th1aIt isn't in the bottom middle!00:37
th1aAnd it doesn't float over everything.00:38
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th1apcardune and I can arm-wrestle over this in Vilnius.00:39
* th1a is going to cook dinner.00:39
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pcarduneth1a: we can make it a drinking game for your birthday, whoever can drink the most beers gets to decide where it goes00:40
pcardunebut you have to decide when you are already drunk00:40
t3h_sood" 'bool' object not callable " <-- wtf? >_< Paul please help us :-)00:40
t3h_soodor eldar. Whichever is fine >_<00:41
Lumiereth1a: you can't call a <type 'bool'>00:44
Lumiereerr t3h_sood00:44
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wjohnsto`ACCmy password is watermelon00:50
wjohnsto`ACCdon't feel left behind00:50
eldarcool :P00:50
t3h_soodmine is cucumber <_<00:50
t3h_soodnot really :-) BYEBYE00:50
eldarmine still might be banana00:50
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eldari might have switched after jason tested it00:51
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AVN`lol, i tried to join using cd04:15
AVN`ping-pcardune, Lumiere  eldar04:16
AVN`any will do04:16
tdoggetteMe and Chris Beacham are working on security tests for schooltool and cando, and we're puzzled by this bug04:16
tdoggettein the http://localhost instance of schooltool that our test runs in, there's no "Last name" field when you add a person04:17
AVN`Its extremely strange, for some reason, it appears that the  tests are running a different version of cando04:17
AVN`though they are running from the same instance, so they should be identical04:17
tdoggetteAVN == Beacham04:18
tdoggetteAnyone have any ideas?04:18
AVN`filip, could you IM pcardune ?04:19
AVN`its kind of a crazy, insane, loco bug04:19
tdoggetteThis other schooltool version has to have source somewhere04:19
pcardunewelcome to person/demographics hell04:19
tdoggetteYeah, well04:19
tdoggetteIt seems like the one the test sees doesn't even use person/demo04:20
tdoggetteit's only got a few fields04:20
AVN`and it has groups04:20
tdoggetteon the same page, as opposed to the latest, which has a whole bunch04:20
AVN`but not groups04:21
* tdoggette finished Beacham's sentences04:21
tdoggettepcardune, any idea where the localhost version of schooltool could be coming from04:21
tdoggetteand how we can point it at something more recent04:21
tdoggetteor update it or something04:21
AVN`I did a ps aux, and I didn't see any  instances running other than tdoggette's04:22
tdoggetteThe testbrowser is pointed at http://localhost04:23
tdoggetteand browser.contents paints a different picture than looking at the HTML of my instance does04:24
pcardunetdoggette: use this to see what you have:
tdoggetterunning now04:26
tdoggetteach, I have to kill my instance for that to work, I guess04:30
tdoggetteI got "Address already in use"04:30
pcardunepass in port as a keyword argument and make it different04:30
pcarduneI bet someone else is using that same port on maddog04:30
tdoggettewait, how do I change port?04:31
tdoggettechange browser.url?04:32
pcardunestartServer(http, browser.url, username, passwd, port=2311)04:33
tdoggetteI'll use my port, I know that's open04:34
tdoggettethe test seems to be hanging before hitting my security.txt04:36
pcardunehanging? or running startServer?04:36
tdoggetteTear down cando.curriculum.browser.ftests.curriculum_functional_layer ... not supported04:37
tdoggettewhich is usual04:37
tdoggettebut it's not going past it, as per usual04:37
pcardunejust wait a bit more04:37
tdoggetteI plan to.04:37
tdoggettepcardune, ...04:42
pcardunetdoggette: debug :)04:42
tdoggetteIsn't that what this is for?04:42
pcarduneyeah, not figure out why it's not working :)04:42
tdoggette>>> server.startServer(http, browser.url, 'manager', 'schooltool', port=8124)04:43
tdoggettethat is correct, yes?04:43
tdoggetteI'll try running it again. Maybe it was a freak thing.04:43
tdoggetteIt runs now04:45
tdoggettebut gives the "Address already in use" bit again04:45
tdoggetteI'll change port.04:45
AVN`i got that too04:46
AVN`use 812004:46
AVN`i think thats mine04:46
tdoggetteI'm trying 810604:46
tdoggetteFailing that, I'll use yours04:46
tdoggetteIt's hanging on "Tear down" etc. again04:49
tdoggetteRestart fixed it04:50
tdoggetteand the address is in use.04:50
tdoggetteRunning w/ 812104:50
tdoggetteWhoo, it is TEARIN' it DOWN04:52
AVN`I love how lively this is04:52
tdoggetteWell, if you say his name, a genie appears04:52
tdoggetteDon't, though04:52
tdoggetteThe genie is busy04:53
AVN`and makes 30 bucks an hour04:53
fsufitchAVN`, when you have something to ask of me, plz use fsufitch instead of filip04:53
tdoggetteIf we study real hard, we can be highly paid and confined in a bottle too.04:54
fsufitchXchat only blips me when you use fsufitch04:54
AVN`oh, sorry filip04:54
AVN`but that was like 5 hours ago04:54
tdoggettefsufitch, you mean.04:54
AVN`no, i mean filip04:54
tdoggettedo you?04:54
AVN`yes, i intentionally used it wrong04:54
fsufitchi h8 u04:54
AVN`see ya l8er filip04:55
AVN`this isn't 1337, this is teenage girl txtmsg speak04:56
AVN`and by this, i mean that04:56
tdoggette(All if this inanity is being faithfully logged)04:58
AVN`I'll censor vulgarity, but not stupidity04:58
tdoggetteIrritatingly, after we've got the right version of schooltool running correctly, everything else will fall into place04:59
tdoggetteAnd the genie's magic see-all is not WORKING04:59
tdoggetteI'm just gonna let it hang forever04:59
tdoggettesee what it does04:59
AVN`i think there was a way to give it priority04:59
AVN`so it gets CPU with first priority05:00
AVN`if forget how05:00
AVN`are you sure you sshed with X forwarding?05:00
AVN`both times? or did you start gobby with an &05:00
tdoggetteno, it's all x-forwarded05:01
tdoggetteAnd all hanging, still.05:09
AVN`perhaps its genie summering time05:11
tdoggetteLet's not.05:12
tdoggetteI've got to go.05:12
tdoggetteI'd stay,  but my room is needed05:12
tdoggetteAnd I am not armed with a laptop.05:12
tdoggetteLet's resume tomorrow.05:13
tdoggetteI'll call you in the morning with my availability, because it's variable due to houseguests.05:13
tdoggetteFarewell, AVN`.05:14
tdoggetteIT STARTED05:14
tdoggetteI was just leaving, too05:14
AVN`whats up with it05:14
tdoggetteslowness, for one.05:15
tdoggetteit's waiting for localhost05:15
tdoggetteI was right when I said I had to go05:16
tdoggetteand it's not loading at all05:16
tdoggetteWe can pick up tomorrow05:16
AVN`ah... leave it open, save time05:17
tdoggetteLike I said, I'll call.05:17
AVN`and, you could IM me05:17
tdoggetteWe'll beat this.05:17
AVN`or email05:17
AVN`see ya05:17
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AVN`don't forget the clockout05:17
AVN`time is now 10:1805:18
AVN`in case we need that later05:18
tdoggette_sleepI'm out.05:18
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dwelshth1a:  you around?16:38
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th1adwelsh: I am around.17:37
AVN`tdoggette_sleep, ping17:42
AVN`tdoggette_sleep, when you come, i got it to work, port 808017:54
AVN`slow with the loading though17:57
AVN`real slow18:11
AVN`pcardune, any other suggestions?18:14
pcarduneAVN`: suggestions for...?18:15
pcarduneth1a: did you see my drinking game suggestion from yesterday?18:15
th1apcardune: I need a note from jelkner giving you permission to drink.18:16
pcardunewhy does he need to give me permission?18:16
* mgedmin searches irclogs18:16
mgedminLumiere: yes you can call <type 'bool'>, just try it:18:16
mgedmin>>> bool()18:16
AVN`we need to tell what version of cando the test is running18:16
mgedminwhat you can't is call instances of type bool: True() or False() will barf18:17
* th1a is pulling pcardune's leg.18:18
pcarduneAVN`: you are running whatever version you have checked out... which is probably (should be) trunk.  the thing you need to know is whether you are using schooltool.demographics person or schooltool.person18:20
pcarduneI'm guessing you are using schooltool.person18:20
pcardunewhich is fine18:20
AVN`how can we tell?18:20
AVN`if we are just following links18:20
pcarduneyou just need to change your tests to make it use the forms for schooltool.person18:20
pcarduneAVN`: by using that whole startServer business and looking at the form for adding a person18:21
pcarduneif the form has a bunch of stuff about demographics, then you are clearly using demographics person... but if the form doesn't have a bunch of demographics then you are using schooltool's simple person18:21
pcarduneAVN`: does that make sense?18:22
AVN`well, the start server doesn't work18:22
AVN`nothing loads18:22
AVN`firefox opens, but its just a blank screen18:22
AVN`it hangs on 'waiting for localhost'18:22
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pcarduneAVN`: in that case you can always read through the output of the html and see what fields are there18:27
AVN`yeah, its got groups, so its demographics18:28
AVN`but why?18:28
AVN`its following the same path as we would if we clicked through18:28
AVN`why does it find demographics?18:28
Lumierehi all?18:37
AVN`can you help me figure out why the automated tests18:37
AVN`find the wrong new person?18:38
AVN`er, new person page18:38
Lumierepcardune: would be better equipped to do that18:38
AVN`he stopped responding18:39
pcarduneAVN`: you guys really shouldn't worry about what kind of person it finds18:39
pcarduneit has to do with your functional test setup18:40
AVN`well, it would be nice to understand how it works18:40
AVN`like, is it going to do this agian18:41
AVN`in other cases?18:41
AVN`finding other forms?18:41
AVN`cause forms you can't find are hard to write for18:41
pcarduneonly with persons18:41
Lumiereperson is the only thing like that really18:41
AVN`so its only person18:41
pcarduneand that is something which might be worked out in the coming weeks18:41
Lumierepcardune: I doubt it18:41
AVN`ok, well, we can change it back then18:42
eldarpcardune, which form framework should I ask Stephan to present on? z3.form or formlib?18:49
pcardunehmm, z3c.form I guess18:50
pcardunealthough it currently is not in a state such that it can be used in schooltool, we need to provide UI hooksup for it which shouldn't be that difficult18:50
AVN`how do I access person.demographics?19:08
AVN`from cando?19:11
AVN`how do i get to it?19:11
eldargo to schooltool source19:12
eldarand look for it19:12
eldarit's all there19:12
AVN`I'll wait till tdoggette_sleep gets back, getting nowhere fast19:17
LumiereAVN`: look at journals too19:21
Lumierethey have to get some info from person19:21
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tdoggetteAVN`, you there?19:57
AVN`whats up?20:10
tdoggetteOh, you're there.20:14
tdoggetteDid you figure out where the schooltool instance that wasn't using the demographics person was coming from?20:15
AVN`its the same instance20:15
AVN`so i gather20:15
AVN`its just finding it differently20:15
AVN`also you are running like 5 versions of the test20:16
AVN`i suggest you do ps aux20:16
AVN` | grep cando20:16
AVN`and start killing them20:16
tdoggetteOh wow20:17
tdoggetteI don't suppose there's a convenient automated way to kill everything I'm running?20:19
AVN`there is killall20:19
AVN`for instance20:19
AVN`killall cando20:19
AVN`might do it20:19
AVN`or killall python20:19
tdoggette"no process killed"20:20
Lumieretdoggette: there are 2 implementations of the IPerson interface20:20
Lumieretdoggette: on maddog?20:20
tdoggetteHow can we see one and the testbrowser the other?20:20
Lumieretdoggette: it shouldn't matter20:20
tdoggetteWell, the version that we can see demands "Last name" to add a person20:21
AVN`well, yeah diffrent forms20:21
AVN`it does matter20:21
tdoggetteand the one the testbrowser can see doesn't have the field20:21
LumiereAVN`: what's this test for?20:22
AVN`we can work around that, but the point is we need to figure out why the test browser is going to the wrong page, because we need to know how it works20:22
AVN`its security testing20:22
tdoggetteLumiere, permissions.20:22
Lumiereuh, iirc you shouldn't be testing add person20:22
AVN`so we are going to be all over cando20:22
AVN`We need to make people20:22
AVN`to test other things20:23
tdoggettea student, a teacher, an admin20:23
Lumiereyes, but you don't need to worry about the values of the user20:23
tdoggetteto see what each has the ability to do20:23
Lumierejust that they exist20:23
tdoggetteWe need to make them exist20:23
AVN`well, we need to make them20:23
tdoggetteseeing as they don't20:23
Lumierejust addPerson20:23
AVN`the point is not that we need to add people, the point is why is the brower not behaving like we expect20:24
AVN`because if it is not behaving like we expect, we can't be sure that its testing what we think it is20:24
AVN`we could miss stuff... etc20:25
Lumierelook at SchoolTool/src/schooltool/resource/20:25
Lumierelook at SchoolTool/src/schooltool/resource/browser/security.txt20:25
Lumiereit addPerson's a few people20:27
Lumierethen it gives them permissions20:27
Lumierethen it tests20:28
Lumiereyou don't *care* what type of person you're using20:28
Lumierethey both implement IPerson20:28
Lumiereor they are the anonymous person20:28
tdoggetteOkay, that'll make our job easier20:29
tdoggetteBut, like AVN` said, we still don't know why out testbrowser isn't looking at the same thing we are20:29
Lumiereit may be ftesting.zcml20:30
Lumierebut yet it still doesn't matter :)20:30
tdoggetteWell, yes, yes it does matter20:30
tdoggetteBecause we need it to see what we see20:31
tdoggetteAnd it's not20:31
Lumieretdoggette: you're wrong20:31
AVN`no, he's not20:31
Lumiereyou just need to know20:31
AVN`we can't, on the lowest level, write for something we can't see20:31
AVN`If the form is called Surname instead of last name, its going to fail20:32
LumiereAVN`: then change the zcml of schooltool to use a non-demographics person (and ask ignas how to do it... OR ask ignas/pcardune how to make testbrowser use demographics.person20:32
Lumierebut in the end... you don't need to look at person at all20:32
Lumiereyou're NOT TESTING person20:33
Lumierein any way shape or form20:33
tdoggetteBut it /should/ be the same instance we have20:33
tdoggettewe are SEEING a demographics person20:33
Lumiereperson is schooltool core code20:33
tdoggetteand it's getting a regular person from somewhere else20:33
Lumiererather then cando module code20:33
AVN`how do we know it won't do this again>20:34
AVN`its much better if its the same instance20:34
LumiereAVN`: because person is the only thing in schooltool with 2 implementations20:34
AVN`are you sure?20:35
Lumiere(at least for now, and it will be the only thing with 2 implementations packaged in by default)20:35
tdoggetteI still wish I knew from where it pulled the other one20:35
Lumierethere will be multiple gradebooks, but only 1 gradebook will exist in the code at any time20:35
Lumieretdoggette: it's all zcml20:35
tdoggetteBut shouldn't it be the /same/ zcml20:36
AVN`tdoggette, reopen the file in gobby, i edited it a little20:36
Lumiereftesting.zcml vs site.zcml20:36
tdoggetteAVN`, what session?20:36
AVN`its still running20:37
AVN`start a new one20:38
AVN`i guess20:38
tdoggette6118 again20:39
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aelknerpcardune: bitchx is bitchin'22:05
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AVN`tdoggette, are you there? ping22:10
Lumierebitchx < irssi22:24
AVN`irssi < xchat22:27
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aelknerhi mlinnell23:06
mlinnellaelkner, hi23:06
aelkneri have to get set up on another machine, so i'm signing ouff for a sec23:06
mlinnellwe're on gobby23:06
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