IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2007-06-20

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AVN`So, what can I work on?02:17
pcarduneAVN`: printable forms?02:34
pcarduneisn't that what eldar had you working on?02:34
pcardunesurely you aren't already done with the printable forms are you/02:35
AVN`No, I don't think so02:35
AVN`I'll work on that02:36
pcarduneok good02:36
AVN`what is the exact difference between cando and schooltool?03:03
AVN`like, why is skilldriver in the cando directory, but almost everything else in schooltool03:03
pcardunewe work on cando and not schooltool03:05
pcardunecando is a package providing several add-ons to schooltool03:05
pcarduneskilldrivers is just one of them03:05
pcardunewe could put them in schooltool, but then they would live in schooltool's repository and not cando's repository03:05
pcarduneand it takes a bit more work to get committ access to schooltool repository than to the cando repository03:06
AVN`what is generations?03:07
AVN`its a folder in the sorce code03:07
AVN`with names like evolve2.py03:07
pcarduneit allows us to make changes to internal data structures without breaking the database03:09
pcardunethe code must always reflect what is actually in the database or your data gets corrupted.  So if you make architectural changes, you need to migrate old data to the new architecture03:09
pcardunezope has an automated system of managing those transitions - and that is what the generations package does03:09
AVN`oh, cool03:10
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kinderhi all12:36
kinderis Tom Hoffman here?12:36
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jfrochekinder: Tom Hoffman is th1a , he lives in USA east coast so he might be sleeping now13:55
kinderjfroche: thank you, I hope he will be availble in the afternoon13:56
jfrochekinder: he is often there around 16h 17h (gmt +1)13:58
kinderjfroche: ok thank you13:58
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AVN`It looks like there is already a skilldriver printable form16:40
AVN`what changes need to be made to that?16:52
LumiereAVN`: where?17:00
AVN`if you look at a skill driver17:01
AVN`and actions-grade17:01
Lumieredo you have a version I can look at? :)17:02
AVN`what do you mean?17:02
LumiereI am at home and don't have access to a trunk instance17:02
AVN`so... like a screenshot?17:03
Lumiereor a copy I can login to17:03
AVN`screenshot is easier, I am not set up for people to log in to17:04
Lumierethat works17:04
AVN`sending it17:06
Lumiereyour IP isn't right17:06
AVN`its not17:09
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LumiereSEND from AVN` [ port 0]: Screenshot-7.png [122kB]17:09
AVN`thats really odd17:10
Lumierejust email it17:10
Lumierethat isn't the printable version that's just the competency gradebook view17:11
Lumierethe printable version can be related17:11
AVN`organized by skill driver17:12
Lumierebut it needs to contain ALL the competencies17:12
AVN`of the competency gradebook17:12
Lumiereand print with space to write new info in17:12
AVN`like the compentacy gradebook but instead of groups of competencies, skilldrivers17:13
LumiereAVN`: the view you showed me is the gradebook for the skilldriver, but not the printable view17:14
AVN`i think i understand17:17
LumiereFilip knows pretty well how it should go ;)17:20
AVN`I guess I will wait for him then ...17:22
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pcardunegood morning Lumiere18:05
pcarduneLumiere: I just forwarded an email to the cando list about cando+moodle integration18:07
LumiereI don't see any capability at the moment18:20
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pcardunehi mattva0118:23
pcardunemattva01: i'm sending you the link to the README file18:23
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mattva01you want me to make a package or a least an easier installer ?18:24
pcardunewe need to get this down to a lot fewer steps18:24
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pcardunewell, i'm not sure if the problem is in your realm of work18:24
pcarduneit is more about setting up a working environment18:24
pcardunespecifically making the working environment easy to set up18:24
pcarduneit should go something like this:18:25
pcardunebzr branch url/to/stagent/branch18:25
pcardunecd stagent18:25
pcardunemake runall18:25
pcarduneand that should be it18:25
mattva01yeah i'm not good with makefiles quite yet18:25
mattva01but i can start it at least18:26
pcarduneok, that is what I was wondering18:26
mattva01i think i can do it, i just dont think it would be clean18:26
pcardunewell, we're looking for something that is hopefully clean18:27
pcarduneso, I'll do it, and if you are interested in knowing how it's done, we can gobby18:27
mattva01ok thanks18:27
mattva01i have to say , getting tinyZIS outof subversion is pretty dirty :)18:28
jelknerpcardune: why can't we use bzr for all this?18:28
jelknerand setup our own repository that has everything we need18:28
pcardunejelkner: bzr is not about setting up a working environment18:29
pcardunei'm not sure how you mean by "use bzr for all this"18:29
Lumierebzr is just to hold files, and it is a VERY bad idea to layer 2 RCS over each other18:29
jelkneri don't understand what "getting tinyZIS ouf of subversion is pretty dirty" means?18:29
pcarduneLumiere: it's not really that bad of an idea18:30
pcarduneLumiere: I've done it over and over again and it works fine18:30
Lumierepcardune: as long as you can get each to ignore the other18:30
jelknerwhat i am saying is that *everything* we need is in one place18:30
pcarduneLumiere: that is easy18:30
Lumiereit works fine, but it is still bad18:31
pcardunejelkner: we don't need everything to be in one place, we just need a make file that pulls everything from the right place18:31
pcardunethis is how we do it in CanDo18:31
pcardunecando src, schooltool src, and Zope3 src are all in different places18:32
mattva01isnt that why we always have issues18:32
pcarduneeven all the zope3 sub packages are in different places18:32
mattva01because something got changed when we were not expecting it18:32
pcardunemattva01: that is easy to stop, you just pick an exact revision for grabbing the other things18:33
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fsufitchAVN`: what did i miss?18:39
Lumierepcardune: anyways... as far as  Iknow there won't be moodle integration till ZIS works18:40
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fsufitchdoes anybody know what chris has been working on all morning, because i dont want to redo anything he did18:48
pcardunefsufitch: i don't know, you guys should coordinate which branches you are working on19:07
fsufitchthat's not the issue, it's that he's been working all morning and i didnt know what progress he made :)19:08
fsufitchbut i got in contact, so it's all right19:09
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fsufitchpcardune: chris and i have run into a problem19:24
fsufitchwe can't add more than 1 skill driver to anything19:24
AVN`like overall19:25
pcardunefsufitch: what is the error you get?19:25
fsufitchafter 1 is added, the "Add Skill Driver" button dissapears19:25
fsufitchno error19:25
fsufitchbug? :)19:26
AVN`i am pretty sure its 1 total skill driver, not 1 per section19:26
AVN`feature? :)19:26
* pcardune looks19:26
fsufitchargh, Xterm's colors are screwed up19:27
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fsufitchthat's better19:28
pcarduneoh blargh, i have to set up an instance19:29
pcardunefsufitch: ask eldar19:29
pcarduneeldar: ping pong19:29
pcardunefsufitch: if you guys are really sure that you can't find any other way to add a skill driver, then put it in as a bug19:29
pcarduneon launchpad19:29
fsufitchwe've been trying since yesterday19:30
fsufitchanyway, i dont think our unfamiliarity with the system is helping :)19:30
pcardunedo you have this running on maddog?19:30
fsufitchon each of our computers19:30
pcardunewell, if you get a copy up on maddog, I can take a look19:31
pcardunebut can you delete the one that you create?19:31
fsufitchhow can i get a branch of it on maddog?19:31
fsufitchyes, i can19:31
pcardunethis still shouldn't be a problem for printable forms no?19:31
pcardunefsufitch: the same way you do it on localhost19:31
fsufitchwell, without multiple skill drivers, there's no way to test some of the stuff in the printable form19:32
fsufitchor to code it, to think of that19:32
pcardunebut how you aren't doing stuff for printing out multiple skill driver forms at the same time are you?19:32
pcarduneat least, I don't think that is a feature we need19:33
pcardunejust one skill driver at a time19:33
fsufitchLumiere seems to think otherwise19:33
fsufitchat least he did towards chris sometime19:33
fsufitch"The printable version can be related [to the 'grading' form] but it has to contain ALL competencies"19:34
pcardunebut that is not about skill drivers19:35
pcardunethat is just about the overall grade view19:35
pcardunemaybe he meant all the competencies in the skill driver?19:35
AVN`so all the comp's,  but someof them are grouped into 1 skill driver19:36
pcardunewell, as lead developer, I command you to only do printable forms for individual skill drivers and for the overall gradebook view19:36
pcarduneAVN`: there are two different forms19:36
pcarduneone of the forms has all the comps and that is from the competency gradebook19:36
pcardunethe other form is just for an individual skill driver and only contains competencies from that skill driver19:36
AVN`I think i understand19:37
pcardunebesides, there is nothing that says all the skill drivers will contain all the competencies, so even if you do print out all the skill drivers, you won't necessarily get all the competencies19:37
pcarduneand two skill drivers can have the same competencies19:37
pcarduneso it really makes no sense to print out multiple skill drivers forms on the same page19:37
fsufitchwhoa, i missed a lot19:38
pcarduneif Lumiere disagrees with me, we will have a discussion about it19:38
fsufitchbtw, i think chris and i fail19:38
AVN`uh ggalse alarm19:38
fsufitchi just found a way to add multiple skill drivers19:38
fsufitchsrrt for disturbance19:38
AVN`its just organized strangly19:38
pcarduneoh ok, good :)19:38
pcardunewell if it is organized in an unintuitive way, you could still put that in as a bug19:38
fsufitchso, what we have to do, is for each skill driver, we need to print out that skill driver's competencies _only_, with all students and extra space for new grades19:39
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pcardunein fact, you might be able to get away with one form, registered for the ICompetencyGradebook interface19:40
pcardunesince both grades for skill drivers and for overall sections (with all competencies) use the same code19:40
pcarduneand the same interfaces19:41
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jelknerpcardune: i'm on the phone with eldar talking about the planning document20:26
pcardunejelkner: ok20:26
pcarduneI'm looking at it right now20:26
Lumierefsufitch: all the competencies in a skill driver20:32
Lumiereor the competencies in 1 competency group20:32
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fsufitchLumiere: thanks :)21:19
fsufitchi've almost got it done21:19
alga :-)21:26
eldarhmmm random pictures of programmers from netherlands21:27
pcarduneLumiere: we need to get an ACC design person on CanDo tshirts21:27
pcarduneLumiere: it will read "CanDo Developers - we put Termination in deTermination"21:30
Lumierepcardune: there are no ACC designpeople around21:39
Lumierethey're all now on summer break21:39
Lumierewho wants to help me kill DHL21:40
LumiereI WANT MY LAPPY!21:40
Lumierethis has cost me like $20021:40
fsufitchso i just realized21:42
fsufitchthe code i made yesterday for displaying grades by competency group works just as well for skill drivers21:42
fsufitchhooray for time wasted making new code :(21:43
fsufitchso i guess i can say i'm done making stuff by skill driver21:45
fsufitchsame .pt file21:45
fsufitchjust needs an addition in a configure.zcml21:45
AVN`yeah, well, we made 2       versions that do the same thing21:55
pcarduneit's good practice21:59
pcardunedid you check this stuff in yet?21:59
pcarduneAVN`: ping21:59
pcardunefsufitch: ping22:01
AVN`I win22:04
fsufitchno, i didnt check it yet22:05
fsufitchi'll do that now22:05
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AVN`what country is .be?22:11
AVN`we arn't in a serious screenplay filip22:11
fsufitchhaha funny22:12
AVN`i know22:12
fsufitchpcardune: what was the command for committing with svn again?22:12
AVN`i am known for my wit22:12
pcardunesvn ci -m "some message"22:13
* pcardune goes to grab some lunch22:13
AVN`does it commit the data.fs file?22:14
fsufitchno, i dont think22:14
AVN`thats good22:14
pcardunei'll be back in like 20/30 minutes22:14
pcardunedon't forget about doctests either :)22:14
pcarduneI'll look at your commit when I come back22:14
AVN`did we write anything doc test worthy?22:15
fsufitchno, i dont think so22:15
pcardunefor functional doctests yes22:15
fsufitchcuz we didnt write .py, we wrote .pt22:15
pcardunethat is what you use functional doctests for22:15
AVN`and /xcml22:15
pcardunewe did it in class22:15
fsufitchi think i'm lost htem22:16
pcarduneyou'll want to modify the README.txt file in cando/virginia/browser/22:16
pcarduneif you look at that you will see what I mean22:16
pcardunefunctional doctests are about as straightforward as it gets22:16
fsufitchi c22:16
pcardunejust a way of writing down the steps you would take if you were a human at a web browser22:16
pcarduneok, bbiab22:17
pcardunegood luck22:17
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fsufitchwait, but we can't do that, as there aren't actual links to the pt files we made22:22
fsufitchthey're just sort of hanging out there22:22
fsufitchagh brain block22:23
fsufitchi'll work on the doctests later...22:23
fsufitchnow i need to put some order into my mind22:23
pcardune_lunchmake links22:23
pcardune_lunchask eldar22:23
eldarwhat's up22:24
fsufitchi need to make links from the gradesheets to the print views22:24
pcardune_lunchi love how that pinging thing works22:24
fsufitchwhat syntax would i use for the anchor?22:24
eldarwell they're in the same place, right?22:24
eldarfirst just put an anchor in22:25
eldar<a href="pagetemplateurlname">moo</a>22:25
eldarand for the students22:25
eldarthat depends on where the page template is22:25
eldarand what you take in22:25
eldaras in what url variables you need22:26
eldaroh wiat22:26
eldarthere is nothing for the student22:26
eldari mean the skill driver22:26
fsufitchbut how these work is when i view them it's "theircontext/print.html"22:26
eldarwho's they22:27
fsufitchthe print views22:27
fsufitchlet me give example22:27
fsufitchor that22:28
AVN-clockoutwhere bs stratagies is a skill driver22:29
eldarfor the competencies22:29
eldarindex.html is the gradebook, right?22:29
eldarjust make a link22:29
eldarto "print.html"22:29
eldarfrom there22:29
eldarit should work22:30
fsufitchso i just do <a href="print.html">?22:30
eldarif you wanna be safe22:30
eldardo "./print.html"22:30
eldarand for skilldrivers22:30
eldarfrom where are you trying to link to them?22:30
fsufitchstill an index.html22:31
fsufitchwaiit no22:31
fsufitchor somehting like that22:31
eldarif you're linking from inside bs-strategies-Cop22:31
eldarand the print file22:31
eldaris under that22:31
eldaryou can use "./print.html"22:31
fsufitchAVN-clockout: where did you say the .pt file for skill driver was?22:34
fsufitchearlier u said src/cando/skilldriver/brower/skilldrivergrade.pt22:36
fsufitchbut that's not htere22:36
fsufitchAVN-clockout: ping22:37
fsufitch(( i hope this works)22:38
fsufitch:( it doesnt22:39
fsufitchoh yay22:39
fsufitchso where did u say the file was located?22:39
AVN-clockoutits not there?22:39
eldarare oyu talking to me?22:39
AVN-clockoutno, me22:40
fsufitchno, it's not22:40
AVN-clockoutI have it22:40
fsufitch...22:40    README.txt  skilldrivers.pt22:40
AVN-clockoutconfigure.zcml     gradebook.pyc     __init__.pyc   skilldriver.pt22:40
AVN-clockoutftesting.zcml   skilldriver.py22:40   sectiondriver.pyc  skilldriver.pyc22:40
AVN-clockoutthats an LS22:40
fsufitchyeah, you said skilldrivergrade.pt22:41
fsufitchwtf22:41  gradebook.pyc       skilldriver.pt22:41
fsufitchconfigure.zcml      README.txt         skilldriver.py22:41
fsufitchftesting.zcml   skilldriver.pyc22:41   skilldrivers.pt22:41       __init__.pyc      sectiondriver.pyc22:41
fsufitchthat's my LS22:41
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eldaroh yeah btw22:41
eldarwhen you add a new file22:41
eldaryou have to do22:41
eldarsvn add22:41
eldarsvn add filename22:42
eldarso that it registers and svn doesn't treat it as an extra22:42
AVN-clockoutthat is wack22:42
AVN-clockoutso ...22:42
eldarsvn add filename22:42
eldarthen commit22:42
eldarhe'll update22:42
eldarand get the file22:42
eldarsvn basics guys22:42
fsufitchi dont think he has a branch22:42
fsufitchdo you?22:42
AVN-clockouti don't22:42
eldaryou don't need separate branches22:43
fsufitchsee? i'm psychic22:43
eldaryou can work on the same one22:43
eldarhe doens't have commit access though, yet22:43
eldarwait so how have you been sharing code?22:43
eldarah i see22:43
AVN-clockoutand gmail22:43
fsufitchlol yes22:43
eldarah nvmd then, i'll let you guys figure it out yourselves22:43
fsufitchfine, be that way22:44
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AVN-clockouti opened it in gobbu22:44
AVN-clockoutsave it from there22:44
AVN-clockoutbut how don't you have it22:44
fsufitchthe problem is not that i don't have it22:45
fsufitchit's that i don't have it yet the page shows up22:45
fsufitchso it's not the file u thought it was22:45
fsufitchand i need to find the right file to change it to include the link to print.html22:45
AVN-clockoutlook in the .zcml file22:46
AVN-clockouti wonder where i got it from then22:46
fsufitchoh wait22:46
AVN-clockoutmaybe I made it, forgot about it, then rediscovered it22:46
fsufitchremember how masood said i should put the title as SKILZZZZZ in configure.zcml?22:47
fsufitchapparently that made it somehow appear in the actions menu of the skill driver as SKILZZZZZ22:47
* fsufitch gasps in revelation22:47
fsufitch... interjections?22:48
AVN-clockoutwhat is 'it'22:48
AVN-clockoutthe printform?22:48
AVN-clockoutor skilldrivergrade.pt22:49
fsufitchthe printform22:49
AVN-clockoutdo you have the grade option?22:49
fsufitch  Information  Change Information Link  Grade  SKILZZZZZ  Edit Skill Driver22:50
fsufitchthose are the options22:50
fsufitchso i guess i'm done there :)22:51
fsufitchgr, i've got no idea what to put in the doctest22:52
AVN-clockouti thought you had more options22:52
AVN-clockoutheh, you could just put "the printview work"22:53
fsufitchit's called a doc_test_ for a reason22:53
AVN-clockoutbrowsr.getLink("Skill Drivers"),click22:55
AVN-clockouti wonder though22:55
AVN-clockouthow it deals with the funky menu22:55
AVN-clockoutthe action menu22:56
eldarit doesn't22:56
eldarit looks at the source22:56
eldarand finds an anchor22:56
eldarwith Skill Drivers22:56
eldarin it22:56
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AVN-clockouteverything is set up22:56
fsufitchwhat do you mean set up?22:57
AVN-clockoutin the README.txt22:57
AVN-clockoutlike the class is already created22:57
AVN-clockoutand the doctests for the grade are already written22:57
fsufitchso what is there to do?22:58
AVN-clockoutand because its very similar to the grade.html22:58
fsufitchjust make sure the link works?22:58
pcardunepretty much yes22:58
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AVN-clockoutuh, make sure there is no dashboard and logo?22:59
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pcardunehi aelkner22:59
fsufitchhow do i do that?22:59
pcardunefsufitch: "dashboard" not in browser.contents22:59
AVN-clockout  >>> 'dashboard' in browser.contents22:59
AVN-clockout    True22:59
AVN-clockoutuh, false23:00
aelknerI should be able to help you with TinyZis as I was involved back in January.23:00
aelknerI wrote part of those instructions.23:00
aelknerI understand that they are complicated.23:00
pcarduneaelkner: well TinyZIS isn't the issue i don't think23:00
pcarduneaelkner: I'm right now working on a makefile to automate a lot of that23:00
aelknerThat was necessary to use ZEO, but maybe REST would make things simpler23:00
pcarduneand i'm renaming it schooltool.sifagent23:01
pcardunethe problem with REST is that it would need to be resurrected23:01
pcarduneREST is easier, but more work23:01
aelknerA subpackage of schooltool?23:01
aelknerthat would make it less complicated.23:02
pcardunecomplexity is going to be greatly reduced when I'm finished with this23:02
aelknerYou see originally, Tom wrote the base agent which didn't really do any communication with anything.23:02
aelknerIt was just for tests.23:02
aelknerstAgent was to be the first real use of it.23:03
aelknerAnd we weren't ready to bolt it into schooltool.23:03
aelknerBut if you're going down that road, then all the better.23:03
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pcardunewell, i'm not bolting it into schooltool23:04
pcarduneat least not yes23:04
pcardunenot yet*23:04
aelknerpcardune: are you back in the states?23:04
pcarduneaelkner: you can actually have these things called namespace packages23:04
pcardunewhich is done all over zope23:04
pcarduneso the code for zope.formlib is totally separate from the code for zope.testbrowser23:05
pcardunebut with the right checkout, they all come together into one unified package23:05
pcardunebut can still be used separately23:05
pcarduneit makes organization a bit easier23:05
aelknerWhat does a namespace package do?23:05
aelknerI thought the code for zope.formlib is already separate from the code for zope.testbrowser.23:06
aelknerI mean aren't packages independent by nature?23:07
aelknerUntil they refer to each other?23:07
pcarduneyes, but you'll see what I mean if you go look at svn.zope.org23:08
pcardunezope.formlib and zope.testbrowser don't live in the same directory23:08
aelknerThey never did, so what's different?23:09
aelknerformlib and testbrowser are subpackages of zope./23:10
aelknerNot the same dir.23:10
pcardunewell a namespace package makes that possible23:11
pcardunejust look around and look at the files23:11
aelknerLooking at testbrowser's doesn't reveal anything about namespaces, it just handles deprecation warnings.23:14
pcardunelook at the in the directory above23:14
aelknerI see that mentions namespaces.23:15
aelknerI'm there.23:15
aelknerHave you read into the declare_namespaces method yourself to understand what it does?23:16
pcarduneI have no idea23:17
aelknerThen how does that make any sense to you?23:17
pcardunei don't ask questions23:17
aelknerNo questions, no answers I would think.23:17
pcarduneI haven't had the time to look into it23:17
aelknerSo you're going by someone23:17
aelkner's doc that explains it?23:18
aelknerpcardune: I'm just wondering what you're talking about.   Right now, it's just words to me.23:21
pcardunei wouldn't lose any sleep over it23:21
aelknerNot losing sleep, just trying to learn someting.23:21
aelknerI'll google it later.23:22
aelknerpcardune: are you going to be on-line tomorrow morning?23:23
pcardunewell, at least morning my time23:23
aelknerWhat time EST?23:23
pcardune11am at the latest23:24
aelknerI'll look for you then and see if I can help in some way.23:24
aelknerGot to go now.23:24
*** aelkner has quit IRC23:24
fsufitchpcardune: there is no skill driver created in README.txt23:27
fsufitchdo i need to create it myself?23:27
fsufitchi.e. should there be some form of testing for them?23:27
fsufitchwait, i think i'm looking in the wrong README23:27
pcardunethere is a separate README.txt for skill drivers23:27
pcarduneBut I think the tests in the gradebook will cover both23:28
pcardunebecause you really didn't make a from for skill drivers, you made a form for gradebook23:28
fsufitchoh, right23:28
pcarduneand there are already tests in skilldriver that make sure you can get a gradebook from a skill driver23:28
fsufitch>_> that was silly23:28
fsufitchyes, i can23:28
fsufitchso that's good then23:28
fsufitchnow i just need to commit and i'm done!23:28
fsufitchwhat was that command again?23:29
pcardunesvn ci -m "some message"23:29
fsufitchsvn: Commit failed (details follow):23:30
fsufitchsvn: Entry '/home/filip/mybranch/src/cando' has unexpectedly changed special status23:30
fsufitchi didnt do anything >_>23:30
pcardunei've never seen that error before23:33
pcarduneoh wait23:33
pcarduneI know23:33
pcardunego to that directory23:33
pcarduneand then do the commit again23:34
fsufitchhey, it works!23:34
pcarduneit has to do with the fact that the cando make file turns that spot into a symbolic link23:34
pcarduneand svn does not like that23:34
fsufitchi c23:35
fsufitchwhen may i expect comments on my work?23:42
pcarduneyou aught to ping me23:53
pcardunei'll go look at it now23:54
pcardunefsufitch: that looks good to me23:56
pcarduneyou should add a doctest for the "Printable View" link23:57
pcarduneand don't forget to send me a pdf or some such thing showing how it looks23:57
fsufitchi did...23:58
fsufitchwait, the doctest doesnt fail if it fails to find the link?23:58

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