IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2007-04-09

smalekghwhat does <tr>, <td>, and <th> do in page templates again?00:02
pcardunenothing in particular... those are all just html tags00:10
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smalekghdo they actually mean anything or represent something or are they all equivalent to 'haha, I'm a tag, and I confuse you!'?00:11
pcardunewell, tr is a table tow, td is an entry in that row, and th is a table header00:12
smalekghoh, yay, so it's organization on a page00:12
smalekghthank you >.<00:12
pcarduneyou should look it up in an html reference00:12
pcarduneignas: did someone ever get around to writing that document for helping people write setup scripts for schooltool?00:13
pcardunehi jelkner00:13
jelknerhi pcardune!00:20
jelkneri'm about to give you a call00:20
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pcardunejelkner: i'm in the library00:21
pcarduneso give me a second to leave the library, then you can call.00:21
pcardunemore seconds please00:23
jelknerwould it be better to chat?00:23
jelknerso you don't have to leave...00:23
jelkneri could really just talk to you here00:23
pcarduneok you can call now00:24
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ignaspcardune, hmm, don't think so02:07
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Lumiereah crap03:37
Lumieremissed ignas03:38
* Lumiere sends memos03:41
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Lumieremorning all15:56
Lumiereth1a: ayt?16:22
th1aLumiere: Good morning.16:25
Lumiereseems quiet for the morning meeting...16:25
Lumieremy schedule has changed slightly16:26
th1aIt starts in 1 minute.16:26
LumiereI'm here for the meeting16:26
Lumierethen I go into work16:26
* th1a shuffles some papers around.16:26
FujitsuA meeting starting at 27 past the hour? How strange.16:26
LumiereI was about to say16:26
LumiereMon Apr  9 13:26:50 UTC 200716:26
th1aI guess my clock is not properly synchonized.16:27
Lumieremine otoh is16:27
LumiereI have 4 peers16:27
th1aAh. NTP support is not installed.16:27
th1aLumiere: I guess Virginia is getting pretty enthusiastic about CanDo.16:29
FujitsuNow it's half past.16:30
LumiereI was there for that meeting16:30
Lumierethey have a huge need for it16:30
th1aTell me more.16:30
th1aHm... no ignas?16:30
Lumiereto the point where they want to run a test on cando-07 in classrooms16:30
Lumiereminimum 2 teachers in each of the 8 VA Superintendents Regions16:31
th1aHi jfroche.16:31
th1aPerhaps today is still a holiday in Lithuania.16:31
LumiereI have a couple memos in for ignas when he returns16:32
Lumierenot that it's anything important16:32
Lumierejust reminding him that I do have 1 copy of the resource scheduling branch in 'production'16:32
Lumierebut the people who are using it16:32
Lumiereknow it's a beta server16:32
Lumiereand devmode is still on16:32
Lumiereso it should be pretty obvious to the users16:32
* Lumiere moves back to talking about va+cando16:33
th1aI saw him doing checkins related to that.16:33
Lumiereit should be ok16:33
Lumiereanyways, the plan as it was left in the meeting was to put an RFP out for teachers to sign up during the summer16:34
Lumierethey'd get training in october and start on it at semester break16:34
th1aSounds like a good timeframe.16:34
Lumiereall the times and trainings would be done by the VA CTE Resource Center16:34
Lumiereuntil they start using it at which point it would move to being joint meetings16:35
Lumierealthough I am sure we'll be at some of the trainings16:35
Lumiereat this point, I am trying to get as much user data as I can from these so we can continue to focus development16:36
th1aCTE = Career Technical Something?16:36
Lumierethe other big thing from the meeting was that they want to be able to have an administrator lock certain comps into a course16:36
th1aThat makes sense.16:38
Lumierethey have certain comps that are tied to national standards that for their acreddidation stuff have to be in the curriculum16:38
Lumiereand they want to be sure that those cannot be removed by a teacher who doesn't agree with them16:39
Lumierethe final plus from the meeting is that we're going to be able to get VA's Standards of Learning from their database16:40
th1aThat should be helpful.16:40
Lumiereso we'll finally have all the va comps easily imported (one of the high priority tasks is import and export)16:40
LumiereIt will be a XML format that I'm writing now16:41
Lumiere(it's high on my list for today to finish)16:41
th1aAre you writing a schema?16:41
LumiereI've written a few schema before16:42
th1aWhat language?16:42
Lumiereso I at least understand the syntax16:42
Lumierenone, just xml-schema16:42
th1aIsn't that a language?16:43
Lumiereit's an xml namespace16:43
Lumiere<xsd:schema xmlns:xsd="" targetNamespace="">16:43
th1aClose enough.16:44
Lumierecomps are pretty much implemented in it, but the rest of it will take a little longer16:44
th1aRest of what?16:44
Lumiereit needs to work on a 'person' and a section of a course16:44
th1aI wrote an RDF Schema to cover all this stuff a few years ago.16:45
th1aI don't know if I could even find it now.16:45
Lumiereit would be useful16:45
Lumieremaybe I could just add comp and complist to that16:46
Lumiereand we'd be done16:46
Lumierethe idea is16:46
th1aWhy do you need people and sections?16:46
Lumierewe want to give people compentency lists to import16:46
Lumierebut we need to be able to move people between cando instances16:46
Lumiereand carry as much of the data as we can16:46
th1aWe should really just use SIF for this.16:47
Lumieresif is good for inside zone16:47
th1aYou make a zone for the state.16:48
Lumiereand we plan on using sif with multiple zones for that sort of thing16:48
Lumierewe will be16:48
th1aOK... this is a temporary solution?16:48
Lumiereit's half temporary and half for outside zone transfer/validated resume16:49
Lumiereone of the big things the administration at Arlington Career Center likes is the idea of being able to give a company16:49
Lumierea validated list of compentcies that show what bob learned in school16:50
Lumiereand what we think he can do and how well16:50
LumiereI can't see that being a sif application16:50
th1aHave you seen this ?16:50
Lumiereit could be used16:53
Lumierebut it's way way overkill16:53
Lumierewe won't have 99.999% of the data I see there at first glance16:53
Lumiereand we'll have tons of extensions16:53
Lumierethe other thing that VA has to have is that the _only_ thing identifying a student in cando for them needs to be their testing number16:54
Lumiere(and schooltool)16:54
th1aLumiere: Do you see competencies (or standards) in the schema?16:55
th1aI haven't looked at this before.16:55
LumiereI only see courses16:56
Lumiere(which seems right for a 'transcript'16:56
Lumiereit looks like a data-interchange format for sending a student's transcript to a college electronically16:57
th1aThere is a "Proficiency" which can be attached to a Course.16:57
Lumiere -_- core-main is crashing my browser16:59
th1aI suppose it isn't really sufficient.16:59
th1aI'm just trying to avoid making up our own schemas.16:59
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LumiereI don't really see it as an issue, I also like it for being able to pull data out of the system for backup and long term storage17:00
Lumierehi march17:00
th1ahi march.17:01
th1aLumiere: I'm not saying it is a bad idea in general.  It is always nice to use a generally recognized schema though.17:02
marchDoes anyone know if there exists a website with a howto for schooltool? I'm trying to write an article for our wiki - but I've found only a few informations.17:02
th1aWhose wiki?17:03
marchbut there isn't much in it at the moment ;)17:03
th1aWell... the reason we're kind of low-profile on that kind of thing is that the best advice we can give to Ubuntu users is wait until Feisty+1.17:04
FujitsuIt really should be removed from Feisty, but nobody has got around to it yet.17:04
th1aThe version on Ubuntu is out of date, and it is going to take a lot of work over the next six months to get it ready.17:04
th1aI'm not sure it should literally be removed...17:05
th1aI don't know.17:05
Fujitsuth1a: It's uninstallable and in main...17:05
th1aI'd prefer if it was fixed, but I don't think the problem is in our package.17:06
FujitsuGetting SVN up and running is pretty easy, with just a couple of changes necessary (making it all build/run with python 2.4)17:06
th1aOr at least it didn't used to be.17:06
FujitsuThe problem is that we have a newer Zope.17:06
marchThanks for your informations. :)17:06
th1amarch: As you can see, it is a little complicated.17:08
Lumiereth1a: yes, a recognized schema is good, but for our purposes I think getting schooltool/cando import/export solved17:08
th1aFujitsu: A newer Zope than the old SchoolTool can handle.17:08
Fujitsuth1a: That's right.17:08
Lumierewill create a de-facto compentencies standard17:09
Lumiere(my other qualm is that all these school standards have support from policy groups but not sane implementation stuff)17:09
th1aOK, I'll yield.17:10
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marchSo the article has to wait for a while. Doesn't matter. :)17:10
th1amarch: Come back in six months ;-)17:10
LumiereI yield to jinty for his update and request that the speaker reserve a period of 3 minutes for me afterward17:11
marchth1a: I'll come back :)17:11
Lumierehappy monday jinty17:12
th1aHi jinty.17:12
* jinty congratulates himself on a happy and very relaxing public holiday17:12
jintyHi all!17:13
th1aIs today a holiday in Europe as well?17:13
th1aI mean, as well as Sunday is.17:13
jintyth1a: btw, I'll see if I can get the tickets organized soon next week for europython17:13
th1ajinty: Good.  I just got mine.17:13
jintyth1a: In catalunia it's a holiday17:14
jintybut not the rest of spain...17:14
marchth1a: In Germany it's holiday17:14
* jinty reads the logs to find out what his update should be17:15
th1ajinty: Whatever is on your mind.17:16
th1aIt looks like it is a holiday in Lithuania:
marchHappy Easter by the way :)17:16
th1aAnd Belgium:
jintythen that's mostly a change I'm trying to push through in zope, rather than schooltool17:17
th1amarch: Same to you.17:17
th1aYes... your no ZODB Zope?17:17
jintyAh, yeah17:17
jintynice that it was given a more or less green light17:18
th1aI wondered why that came up last week.17:18
th1aWhat's the motivation?17:18
jintywell, we mostly do SQL in my company, and it's much cleaner if you don't have a ZODB17:19
jintyyou can reduce the compexity of the app by a lot17:19
jintyso we've been using a solution, but with a lot of zope3 code duplicated to just change a few lines17:20
th1aCleaner to not have to keep the ZODB around just to manage the application object or whatever?17:21
th1aLumiere: There's this too:
th1aBut it doesn't mention standards/competencies.17:21
th1aThe fact of the matter is that this would all be easier in RDF.17:22
jintyth1a: we normally run with multiple application servers, so having the ZODB means you need a ZEO server in addition to a RDB server if you want to have a sane environment.17:23
Lumierelink me to a 'howto write RDF schema'17:23
Lumiereand I'll look at it17:23
th1ajinty: Yes, I can see how that would be a problem.17:23
th1aLumiere: Well, it would be easier if EVERYONE used RDF Schemas, but just writing one for an individual purpose is harder.17:24
th1aWhich is why they may never catch on :-(17:24
* Lumiere drops his own personal bag of bricks17:28
th1aOK... I guess that's it for this holiday version of the weekly SchoolTool meeting.17:28
th1aHave a good week!17:28
LumiereI'm on my way to shower/work17:28
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:28
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Lumierehi pcardune_mac18:25
pcardune_machi Lumiere18:25
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marchhave a nice day :)19:08
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Lumierehi pcardune20:51
Lumierelooks like cando-05 won't run on dapper at all20:52
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ignasth1a: ping22:28
jfrochehello th1a22:28
th1aHi ignas.22:28
ignasth1a: i was in a plane flying to brussels when the meeting was happening22:28
th1aHi jfroche.22:28
th1aI hadn't realized we'd gotten to that point already.22:29
ignas:) 2007 April 0922:30
th1aWhat I need is some kind of software to help keep my calendar organized!22:32
ignasth1a: you killed it22:33
th1aSo what are you guys going to work on anyhow?22:34
ignasthinking at the moment22:34
ignasone idea is to work on zc.catalog integration with our batching/tables22:35
ignasbecause jfroche is having some speed problems22:35
ignaswith 1000+ persons in the list22:35
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th1aignas: That sounds like a good idea.22:35
Lumierehi ignas22:35
ignasLumiere: hi22:35
th1aHi pcardune.22:35
Lumiereignas: see my memos?22:37
ignaslooking at it22:38
ignascan't "extract" the memos ;)22:38
LumiereI have 1 copy of resource scheduling in production.  I can/will reset them... (although  getting the person/group data exported would be useful)22:38
Lumiere... But I can ask pcardune to help me with that if it becomes needed22:38
ignasi see22:39
ignasand the other memo?22:39
Lumierethe ... one22:39
Lumieredon't let this one instance get in the way of what's best for the long term22:40
ignasi'll look at it22:42
pcardune_machi th1a22:42
pcardune_macth1a: you are actually going to need to book that plane ticket for me :)22:42
pcardune_macI don't have enough credit to do it myself :)22:42
th1apcardune_mac:  OK.  Email me the itinerary you'll need.22:43
pcardune_macok, I should have that in the next 2 days or so22:43
th1ajfroche: You need to send me an invoice.22:46
jfrocheth1a: got your mail, doing it atm22:47
Lumiereat the moment22:47
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