IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2007-01-23

lhuynheldafar: really? you are the second opinion.00:16
eldafariono, just so that you'd have an answer00:17
eldafaris paul online?00:19
lhuynheldafar: not atm00:20
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aelknerignas: are you there?01:24
ignasaelkner: yes, kind of01:30
aelknerI had a zeo question.01:31
aelknerI used the email you sent us to get schooltool to run with zeo.01:31 and the change to schooltool.conf.01:31
aelknerThat worked.01:31
aelknerProblem is, now I want to open the db from a script of mine, the schooltool agent.01:32
aelknerIt worked before to open the Data.fs and inspect it.01:32
ignasno, you can't really01:32
ignasyou must open it through ZEO as well01:32
aelknerBut now, the FileStorage.FileStorage(self.conf.dbName) wouldn't make sense.01:33
ignaszeo supports multiple connections to the same database01:33
ignasbut the file can be opened only once01:33
ignas(by the ZEO process)01:33
aelknerMAkes sense.01:33
aelknerHow do I change my code to talk to zeo?01:33
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ignasno idea01:34
ignaslook at ZEO docs01:34
ignasi think they should be pretty extensive01:34
aelknerDo you have a link for me, ior should I just google it?01:35
ignasyou might want to look at the ZEO folder in Zope3 checkout first01:35
jelkneraelkner: ring, ring01:35
ignasok, afk now :)01:36
aelknerafk means?01:36
ignasaway form keyboard01:39
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* th1a shuffles some papers around.16:28
th1aHi jfroche, ignas.16:29
jfrochehello th1a16:29
jfrochehello ignas16:29
jfrocheagain sorry for yesterday16:29
th1aNo problem.16:30
th1aJust made me get up "early" two days in a row. ;-)16:30
th1aEarly by POV standards.16:30
th1aWho wants to start?16:31
ignasI can :)16:31
ignasi am going to the US embassy on Jan 3016:31
ignasso i should know if i have a visa some time around that16:32
ignasI have fixed the issues with navigation and action menu translations16:32
ignasso now they are fully translatable in trunk16:32
th1aAh.  Excellent.16:32
ignasseparation of demographics person is nearly complete16:33
ignasnow i am working on having different person objects displayed properly in Person Lists16:33
th1aDifferent person objects?16:34
ignasSchoolTool Person16:34
ignaswith sorting, filtering in tables16:34
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ignasthat is specific to the school16:34
th1aOops.  lost jfroche...16:35
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th1ajfroche: No problem.16:35
ignasI think i'll use the parameter called "Grouping" to manage Attendance Views16:35
ignasso that persons would be sorted by surname16:35
ignasbut still get grouped properly by their class16:36
th1aSort by group.16:36
ignaskind of16:36
ignasSort by whatever was clicked, and then sort by group while preserving the order of previous sorts16:37
ignasi got my laptop fixed16:38
th1aWill this make it easier to have sorting act consistently throughout different views?16:38
ignasso i'll meet with Lyceum ASAP16:38
ignaswould have met today, but the meeting got moved so it would have been not very convenient16:38
ignasth1a: yes hopefully it will16:38
th1aThat's a bit of a problem at this point.16:39
ignasi am converging on some "table" infrasctructure for schooltool16:39
th1aFor views in general?16:39
ignasi am starting to have some pieces in code that are very simmilar, and soon it will be possible to refactor a viewlet or a ViewMixin out of that16:40
ignasif it will be worth it16:40
th1aThat will help, I think.16:40
ignasso at the moment i am working on demographics and will be adding a new person class as soon as i'll prepare ContainerViews for that16:41
jfrochethey have a nice way to create table of student here with their system. First they select the type of element to print (class, student, teacher) then they choose the fields they want, then they select sorting16:41
ignasjfroche: for export, or do they have a Generic show everything you want table view ?16:42
jfrochethey can export their listing so that next time they need it they can call it with same fields but on new data16:42
jfrocheignas: for export and for printing16:42
ignasi see16:42
th1aSounds good.16:42
jfroche2 min ago one teacher entered the room and asked "can you give me how many girls and boy do we have in the school"16:43
jfrochei was really suprised how quick the secretary could fetch that in their actual system16:43
th1aWhen I consider what we really should have done first in this project, just starting with a good database of student info like that seems like the proper starting point.16:44
th1aWe'll have to try that the next time we start over. ;-)16:45
ignasjfroche: maybe you know what parts of schooltool you will be deploying first?16:45
ignasor working on improving ?16:46
jfrocheyep set the students and teachers inside schooltool by importing some csv files. then work on the gradebook16:46
jfrochei have the luck to be next to the person who developped his own gradebook, it's great because he is really aware of the needs16:47
ignasth1a: by the way, pycon would be a good place to talk about data archival, if we'd get at least some users of existing SI Systems i'd be extremally interested in hearing of how they cope with the task16:47
th1aI'm not sure how they do it internally, but I know it is pretty common to not be able to do multi-year queries easily.16:48
ignasjfroche: so your priorities will be gradebook, while leaving the Student Management part to the existing SIS, or will you try to extend schooltool functionality in Person management as well ?16:49
ignasth1a: i am interested in the UI part16:49
ignasth1a: how this switch is perceived/accomplished. What are the common ways of data entry when a new school year starts and other *interesting* problems ;)16:50
jfrocheignas: both yes (i am writting my dev plan, i ll send it as soon as possible, i will have nicolas on the phone tonight to ask him to complete what i wrote)16:50
ignasjfroche: looking forward to it :)16:50
th1ajfroche: Me too.16:51
jfrochei fear friday meeting16:52
jfrochei have fears for friday meeting16:53
th1aFears of?16:53
jfrochenot being able to help them eventhought they made this trip to Belgium would make me feel very unconfortable16:54
th1aThat meeting.  I couldn't think of what meeting you were talking about.16:54
th1aI don't think they've done much with Zope 3, so there is plenty you know that they don't.16:55
jfrocheyop sorry, context switch16:55
th1aBut let's discuss that in more detail.16:55
th1aSo what do they need to know to add LDAP support to SchoolTool?16:55
th1aOne of the people at the meeting does a lot of LDAP work in Zope2.16:56
th1aI believe.16:56
jfrochei got Ian Benson on the phone, first they would like to know more about Z3 unittesting16:56
jfrochethen look where/how to plug ldap support in z316:56
th1aYou might ring up martijn and ask him about the current state of LDAP in Z3.16:58
jfrocheok i will mail him now16:58
th1aHe's been working on that.16:58
th1aTheir developer has looked at the current implementation for Z3.16:59
th1aIt might be more of a question of how to configure ST to use that module than how to add it to Z3.17:00
ignasjfroche: are they going to be trying to come up with a preliminary implementation when visiting you or you will be just talking/planning ?17:00
jfrocheignas: we hope to be able to work on it (at least the beginning)17:01
ignasmay I suggest branching and very frequent commits?17:01
th1ajfroche: I do appreciate your meeting with them.  I know it is a bit of a distraction.17:04
ignasth1a: why didn't they want to come to Vilnius?17:04
th1aIt is farther.17:05
th1aJens is already in the Low Countries somewhere, I think.17:05
ignasi see17:05
th1aAnyhow, we warned them that jfroche is our less experienced developer.17:06
th1aMaybe they just don't like Lithuanians.17:06
jfrocheyep it would have been much more good for them to meet ignas17:06
ignaskind of like looking for car keys where there is light, rather than where you have lost them ;)17:07
jfrocheand Ian seems to come with his wife to travel at the same time17:07
th1ajfroche: I'm sure it will be fine.17:07
ignasbut well, meeting with jfroche still should be more usefull17:07
th1aIt is an easier trip from London.17:07
ignasthan just talking to us online17:07
ignasi'll try to help you as much as I can while you will be working17:08
jfrochethey have taste, they choosed one of the best hotel in Brussels17:10
th1aWe are getting a pretty good deal on this, cost-wise.17:11
th1aThey want to do a lot more work with TSF, so that gives us some leverage.17:11
th1aTSF = The Shuttleworth Foundation.17:11
th1aAnything else?17:13
ignaswhat users are going to use the LDAP integration ?17:13
jfrocheNicolas managed to push for a new server in here17:13
jfrocheso i will have to set it up17:14
th1ajfroche: Oh, that's good.17:14
jfrocheand at the same time they will use if for their website17:14
jfrocheand for the library management17:14
jfrochei just hope that i won't loose too much time in it17:14
th1aThe intent is to use CanDo with their math assessment that will be used... somewhere.17:14
th1ajfroche: Yes, it is somewhat unavoidable though.17:15
ignasmy biggest concern at the moment is whether schooltool will be usable by a school without constant attention from a programmer17:15
th1aWell, first usable with constant attention, second usable without.17:15
th1aI'll be happy if it is usable at all, quite frankly.17:15
ignaswell, contract will be over, and there might be no one to maintain it ...17:16
ignasfrom what i understand in the Belgian school, they have a person who is working as an administrator for their SIS17:16
th1aWell, that's true too.17:16
th1aLots of schools or districts have people working more or less full time to maintain their systems.17:17
th1aIf everything goes well, I'd expect we'd pay for some support time by you through the end of the school year at least,17:18
th1aand I'd hope they'd contract with POV for some level of support after that.17:18
ignasnot much chances17:18
th1aWe'll see how it plays out, but obviously we don't have much interest in seeing our first deployments fall apart.17:18
ignasschools don't have a budget for contracting someone most of the time ...17:18
ignasi'll talk about it with them in more detail17:19
th1aWell, they've got a budget for licensing now, right?17:19
ignaslicensing ?17:19
th1aOr do they have a homemade system now.  I forget.17:19
ignasin lithuania most of the things are done on the nationwide/districtwide basis17:19
th1aOh, right.17:20
ignasgovernment pays for a huge system for all schools17:20
th1aOK, well, if we're successful in the fall, I'm sure we can cover some support for a while, but don't tell them that yet.17:21
th1aLet's just focus on the fall deployment.17:21
ignasi'll ask them what their plans are17:21
th1aJennifer's due date is Thursday, so I'm entering a pretty high state of distraction.17:23
th1aIf the baby doesn't arrive on its own by the end of next week, we'll probably induce labor.17:23
th1aSo it'll be sometime in the next 10 days or so for sure.17:24
jfrochecourage to you both17:25
th1ajfroche: Thanks.17:25
mgedminhave you chosen a name already?17:25
mgedminwill it be th2a or th1b?17:26
th1amgedmin: We have names but not handles.17:26
th1aThat is a good idea though.17:26
ignasmgedmin: th1a200717:26
th1aA chat handle for a middle name would probably get you on Boing!Boing!17:27
th1aMarius mgedmin Gedminas17:27
th1aThat kind of frighteningly makes sense.17:28
th1aOK.  Have a great week.  Good luck on Friday, jfroche.  Don't sweat it.17:29
jfrochewill keep you in touch. Meet them on Thursday evening for lunch17:29
jfrochemoving at home as i am alone again here. regards17:30
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aelknerth1a: do18:13
aelknerIOI have commit access to schooltool?18:13
aelknerOr I should say, "I guess I don't"18:14
aelkneraelkner@schubert:~/cando/SchoolTool$ svn commit -m "created to start the zeo server."18:14
aelknersvn: Commit failed (details follow):18:14
aelknersvn: MKACTIVITY of '/svn/!svn/act/ae6a4e73-b727-0410-a926-9640c7b41fca': 403 Forbidden (
jintyaelkner: you're not going to be able to commit via https18:15
jintyprobably you need to get at a commiters agreement signed18:16
aelknerdo I need to do an svn switch?18:16
mgedminyes, if you have an svn+ssh account18:17
mgedminbe careful, though18:17
mgedminthere's an extra path element in the ssh URL18:17
aelknerActually, I thought I already did this:18:17
aelknersvn switch --relocate
mgedminyou cannot commit through https, I think18:17
mgedminnot after the server move18:17
jintymgedmin: I think I had that enabled for a few people18:18
mgedminah, nice18:18
jintybut since we are moving to bzr, I kinda stopped bothering18:18
aelknercan I have it enabled for me?18:18
jinty(no baz over https)18:18
mgedminbzr supports https:// and bzr+https://18:19
mgedminI thinkl18:19
jintyaelkner -> th1a (schooltool committers agreement)18:19
mgedminbut then we probably don't need a central repo writable by everyone18:20
mgedminmerging bzr branches is sweet18:20
jintymgedmin, looks like it was a half baked implementation...18:20
aelknerjinty: what did you mean by aelkner -> th1a...?18:22
jinty:) I'm sending you to speak with th1a about a schooltool committers agreement18:22
jintyaelkner seems to want commit access to the reporitory18:23
th1aOh, you need to sign a committers agreement.18:23
th1aBut I'm not sure it is necessary at this point.18:24
th1aPerhaps we could do it at PyCon?18:24
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aelknerThat's fine.  Should I wait until then to get the commit access?18:24
mgedminbtw the bzr folks accept a gpg-signed email as their committers agreement18:25
aelknerI could send you the file via email to comit.18:25
th1aaelkner: It doesn't seem like there is a rush to get it in there, is there?18:27
aelknerNo rush, I guess.  I could send it to Will when he needs it.18:28
th1aJust include it in your source tree.18:28
aelknercando, you mean?18:28
aelkneror stAgent?18:28
aelknerI'll put it in stAgent.18:29
aelknerth1a: anyway I got the agent and schooltool to work using ZEO!18:35
th1aIt is all downhill from here.  ;-)18:35
aelknerThe trick was using ZEO.ClientStorage instead of ZODB.FileStorage18:35
aelknerand passing the socket.18:35
th1aYeah.  I knew it would be pretty simple.18:35
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