IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2007-01-08

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th1aBhaskar: So you've got most of your translation working?06:30
Bhaskarthla: ya06:30
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joseph_hello all07:12
joseph_is anyone here?07:12
joseph_i've just got a few quick questions...07:12
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Bhaskarjoseph: hello07:16
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Bhaskarthla: have you check my mail08:28
Bhaskarthla: are you watching movie now08:38
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th1aBhaskar: I am not, in fact watching a movie.08:45
th1aI'll discuss your emails with the developers in our regular meeting tomorrow.08:45
Bhaskarthla:thanks sir08:46
Bhaskarthla: i have forwarded this mail to jinty also08:47
th1aHe's on the mailing list so that isn't necessary.08:47
th1aSending too many emails will make people tune you out.08:47
Bhaskarthla: well i keep your suggestion in mind08:50
th1aBhaskar: Also, you don't need to send the same emails to the CanDo list.08:54
th1aIt is more aggravating than helpful.08:54
Bhaskarthla: ok sir08:54
Bhaskarthla:well i will improve my attatitude on this matter08:56
th1aThanks.  I understand your frustration.08:57
Bhaskarthla: we always move accordance with  you and your team's suggestion08:57
th1aWe just don't have that many people working on this project, and even fewer who understand the fine points of translation.08:57
Bhaskarthla: so interaction is needed among those people08:59
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JohnnySTDose someone have schooltool packages for debian Etch?14:00
ignasdon't think there are any14:00
ignasnewest Zope3 is not supported by the old releases and new development version is not stable enough to be released14:01
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JohnnySTignas, ok I see.14:24
ignasif you know Zope3 you can fix the situation though ;)14:24
JohnnySTI dont know Zope3...14:25
JohnnySTI want to do an demo of schooltool.14:26
FujitsuHow many people are working on schooltool at the moment?14:26
FujitsuJohnnyST, it's not hard; I set a test system up a couple of days back, didn't take long.14:26
JohnnySTI remember that I have it on an old machine here installed I could use that one..14:26
ignashmm, 2 developers and a project manager + a project using schooltool is making some contributions14:26
FujitsuProject using SchoolTool == CanDo?14:27
jintyJohnnyST: have you seen the online demo? http://demo.schooltool.org14:27
JohnnySTjinty, yes but we would like to do an demo populated with some data.14:28
JohnnySTand it would be best to have it setup so I can manage it,14:28
JohnnySTfor the demo.14:28
JohnnySTjust to make sure it works.14:29
FujitsuJohnnyST, there's functionality to populate the database automatically.14:29
jintyok, for a demo it would be reasonable to use the current subversion trunk14:29
JohnnySTok thats nice.14:29
JohnnySTperhaps I sould try the subversion then..14:30
jintyJohnnyST, hopedfully this helps you out with that:
JohnnySTOk ill try that then,14:30
FujitsuAny big new features appearing in the near future?14:36
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ignasjinty: have you seen the last detailed discussion about bzr between me and ddaa14:56
ignasjinty: this one -
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* jinty reads the discussion now15:35
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jintyignas: so if I understand it, the idea is to have bzr branches on and mirrored by launchpad.16:11
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jintylaunchpad does the commit mails, which we parse to get kick off buildbot16:11
jintyor was it possible to have the bzr repositories primary place on launchpad and have launchpad do access control?16:11
* jinty wouldn't mind having the repo/access control totally outsourced to launchpad, but that's probably a non-workable idea16:13
ignasbandwith heavy16:14
ignasa branch weighs 264 megs or so :/16:15
ignasand I don16:15
ignas't want to be uploading it16:15
* ignas is not sure if launchpad supports working-tree less commits16:16
ignasi mean16:16
ignasok, my mistake16:16
ignasit's more like 100 mb16:16
jintyAnd launchpad doesn't support repositories, so you have to re-upload every time you make a new branch? right?16:17
jintywheras we can have a repository on, so youy guys don't have to upload as much?16:18
ignasi think so16:18
jintyok, so we have some branches on for main developers, which are mirrored on launchpad16:19
jintythere will be other branches as well.16:20
jintyis that more acccurare?16:20
ignasif someone will want to mirror his branch on launchpad we'll take him inot schooltool team on launchpad16:23
jintyok, well the plan seems reasonable, but how can we make it happen, I guess we start making the repository on schooltool.org16:24
jintybut the big question is, who needs access to the branches there?16:25
ignasi'll try out some things locally first i guess16:25
jintyand does the access need to be granted on a per branch level...16:25
ignasi have to really try out bzr before thinking of something specific16:26
jintyok, take your time, I'm just proposing the questions I need answered before I can set up a schooltool repository with sftp access16:27
jintywe might also want to think of multiple repositories with access control granted at that level.16:30
* th1a shuffles some papers around.16:30
jintybut enough for now...16:30
th1aHello, folks.16:30
th1aLooks like we're making some progress on bzr.16:31
th1ahi ignas, jfroche, jinty.16:31
jintyhi th1a, it's going to take a looong time, this is just the first stage16:31
th1aWell, it is probably a good thing we've got it started.16:32
jfrochehello th1a16:33
th1aignas:  What have you been up to?16:33
th1ahi jfroche.16:33
ignashad a lot of fun with alphabetical sorting order this week16:33
ignasbut i think i am mostly doen16:34
th1aWhat about it?16:34
ignaswell in lithuania it's more like aąbcčdeęėfghiįyj.... not absdefghijk...16:34
th1aYes, it did just occur to me that it might be an i18n problem.16:35
ignaszope3 has no collation information in it's locale package16:35
th1aIs the sequence somehow built into unicode or something?16:35
ignasbut j1m or srichter lead me to zope.ucol16:36
ignasso now schooltool has one more dependency16:36
th1aSo does that theoretically work for every language?16:37
ignasyes it does now16:37
th1aIs libicu-dev in Ubuntu?16:37
ignasonly a couple of minor cleanups and i'll commit it16:37
th1aOK.  Make sure and post about the new requirement when you do it.16:37
ignasBronius Skūpas was out of the city, but now is back, so I have sent him the draft for a review16:38
ignasthough i am afraid he's to busy to talk to me in detail this week16:38
ignasi'll try to arange something16:39
th1aWell, it is nice to know that we're at least dealing with real problems proactively now, even if they're not generating new functionality.16:39
ignasyes, there are quite a lot of these16:39
ignasi am uploading a new schooltool.pot into rosetta16:39
th1aAh.  Thanks.16:40
jfrocheupload is working again then ?16:40
ignasbut we'll have to work on schooltool as apparently not everything is translatable16:40
ignasjfroche: pot file not po file, though i think upload is working for some time now16:40
ignasthere are quite a lot of non translatable strings in there :/16:40
th1aignas: Are you referring to Bhaskar's problem?16:41
th1aWhat do you mean by non-translatable.16:41
th1aAre these Etria bugs?16:41
ignasno, not just etria, i think everyone who worked on schooltool has left at least some of these16:42
th1aSo basically, these have to be tracked down manually and add what i18n="" or something like that?16:43
ignassometimes (navigation links) it's not that simple ...16:44
th1aignas:  ... are you going to elaborate on that, or are you done?16:46
ignasfrankly - i don't know how to solve that at the moment16:46
ignasi can make them translated, but extract-translations will not get the strings16:47
ignasthus they will be absent from the pot file16:47
ignasand as it is autogenerated - i can't put new strings in it by hand16:47
th1aOh.  I see.  Because in the navigation links you need to do something that isn't picked up by the generation script.16:48
th1aWhere does the script come from?16:48
ignasno, it's not generation, it's just that we are using viewlets for the menu16:48
ignasand titles are set in zcml16:48
ignasviewlet declarations16:48
ignasand extract-translations is not picking up strings from there ...16:49
th1aDid jinty write the extract-translations script?16:49
th1aOr is that a Zope thing?16:49
jintyit's a wrapper around a zope thing16:50
jintybut extract translations should be picking up strings from zcml16:51
th1aSo this is a bug which affects all of you?16:51
ignasnot all, only zope:page things i think16:51
ignasnot <viewlet> tags as they don't have a schema, i mean you can have any attributes you want in there16:52
ignas<viewlet foo="i18n will not pick me up!" />16:52
th1aI mean, all languages.16:54
th1aOK.  So what's the fix?16:55
th1ajfroche: Are you following this?16:55
jfrocheth1a: yes16:55
ignasth1a: i don't know yet16:56
ignasi mean i know a few ways to fix it16:56
ignasbut i don't like them16:56
ignasso i'll consult a bit with my coworkers and think about it16:56
jfrochehardcore some string in pot file ?16:56
ignasmaybe, but it is autogenerated so extraction would have to merge the manual pot file and the generated one16:57
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ignasor we could just move the strings out of zcml into templates or python code16:57
jfrocheignas: but if you add a fake py with some _.16:57
* ignas thinks that's kind of ugly16:57
ignasbut maybe we'll have nothing better16:58
ignasanyway - meetings are not for solving problems16:58
th1aOK.  Just wanted to hear from jfroche.16:58
th1aEither way, it sounds like some kind of semi-ugly solution will be necessary.16:59
jfrocheth1a: i go with Nicolas by the school on wednesday16:59
jfrochewe should have go today but had some planning problem with my bank16:59
th1aWrapping up the i18n discussion: I'd like to see that fixed sooner rather than later.16:59
th1aPerhaps we can spread the grunt work around on that.17:00
jfrocheyou got the mail from James H. ?17:00
th1aI did.17:00
th1aSounds like we're getting somewhere.17:00
ignasnepalese translation being 100% full is good for spotting untranslated things :)17:00
jfrochei think we should have a final solution this week17:00
th1aignas: Yes, French and Lithuanian still look kind of like English.17:01
th1aCan't mistake Nepalese for English.17:01
th1aI did discuss not spamming us to Bhaskar last night.17:01
th1aHopefully we can calm him down.17:02
th1ajfroche:  Are you in a holding pattern waiting to meet with the school?17:03
jfrochewe know what we should do17:03
jfrochewith the school17:04
jfrochebut would like to get the confirmation that the things we will propose is the right thing17:04
th1abtw jfroche, does your time tracker send emails?17:04
jfrocheeuh no why ?17:04
th1aJust wondering.  ignas's does.17:05
jfrochewe meet the school wednesday17:05
ignasoh, i'll send 2 dailies and a weekly some time today17:05
th1ajfroche: I'm just anxious for you to get rolling.17:05
th1aSeptember will be here before you know it.17:06
jfrocheth1a: as soon as i will be settled inside the school, i think it will get much better17:06
th1ajfroche: Have you looked into what you need to do to travel to the US?17:06
jfrocheyes i have everything17:06
th1ajfroche: Yes, I'm forgetting we only go that set up right before Christmas.17:06
jfrochei have my visa in 1 week17:06
jfrocheand i have the planned booked17:06
th1aOK.  Email me your travel dates.17:06
th1aignas: Do you have an appointment with the Consulate or whatever?17:07
ignasnot yet17:07
th1aBetter do that.17:07
th1aDo you need anything else from me?17:08
ignasdon't think so17:08
jfrocheth1a: should i send you a copy of the plane bill ?17:08
th1aWIth an invoice.17:09
th1aWe'll just process that at the same time as your regular invoice.17:09
th1aWe're on a pretty regular schedule now.17:09
jfrocheok no problem17:09
th1aOK, moving on to a new issue.17:09
th1aI've gotten a proposal from a guy named Ian Benson, who is one of the few other active Python in education administration people.17:10
th1aHe works at Stanford.17:10
th1aThey've got some existing apps in Zope 2.17:11
th1aHe's working on a new mathematics program which has specific assessment tracking needs, which fit in pretty well with CanDo.17:11
th1aSo he approached me about doing LDAP integration for SchoolTool.17:12
th1aBasically adding LDAP authentication support and also using LDAP as a central repository for some of the assessment data.17:12
th1aTo pass that data between the Zope2 and Zope3 halves.17:13
th1aOne of the main developers of the LDAP support for Zope2 works for him, apparently.17:13
th1aSo they've got lots of LDAP experience.17:13
th1aPolitically, it is a good connection, and it is something which has been on our ToDo list for a long time.17:14
th1aAnd I've got some money to do it.17:14
th1aThey'll also be coming to PyCon, so that adds a nice additional dimension to the sprint.17:14
th1aSo I've agreed to give it a shot.17:15
ignascool :)17:15
th1aThe question I have now is, what do I mean by "LDAP authentication," because I don't know that much about LDAP, but I know that "LDAP authentication" doesn't always mean the same thing to everyone.17:15
th1aSpecifically, does this mean that first the user is "manually" created in SchoolTool, and LDAP is only passed the username when he or she logs in?17:16
ignasas i haven't done anything with LDAP i am not really sure about that ... it depends on what they want/need17:17
ignasand as you have mentioned they have experience with integratiing LDAP and Zope2 so i guess they know what they want17:17
th1aOr does SchoolTool wrap the user list in LDAP, so they are essentially the same thing?17:17
jfrocheldap would be the storage, a DB for authentication and some more information about the user17:18
jfrocheeither you store info in zodb either in ldap17:18
jfroche(info about the user)17:18
th1aSo you'd make a new Person object that doesn't consult the ZODB but LDAP?17:18
jfrocheyou can change the user schema as you will17:19
th1aNew person folder.17:19
ignasno not really17:19
ignasi think we will still need 1 object in ZODB for every person in LDAP17:19
th1aWhich would be created the first time the user logs in?17:20
ignasprobably, yes17:20
ignasi don't know how removal of persons will be handled17:20
jfrocheignas: for what do you need the person in zodb as every info are in ldap ?17:20
th1aYou need to connect the person to other things.17:21
ignasjfroche: annotations ? relationships? calendar.__parent__ ?17:21
th1aTheir sections, etc.17:21
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th1aThat's the way it is done in Zope 2, I think.17:21
jfrochethe storage of the info change17:21
th1aAn object is created whenyou log in the first time.17:21
jfrochethe base class representing the user doesnt change17:21
jfrochethe storage change17:22
th1ajfroche: Sounds right to me.17:23
th1aOK.  That helps.17:24
jfrochewe have a z2 client which has many users by who we use ldapuserfolder (z2 product for ldap authentication) to connect to their Active Directory17:24
jfrocheall info regarding the user are fetched on the AD17:24
jfroche(basic info i mean)17:24
th1aRight.  But there is still a basic object in the ZODB.17:25
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jfrochea home folder for the user yes17:25
th1aI just changed the names of the development series on LaunchPad.17:25
th1amain >> calendar17:25
th1a2006 >> trunk17:26
th1aDoes that seem more accurate?17:26
th1a'trunk' is perhaps not sufficiently descriptive.17:26
* ignas uploaded a new pot file :)17:27
ignasi'd think "development" would be better17:27
ignasas well, no one knows what trunk is (excpet for programmers)17:28
th1aYes, it needs to make sense to *translators*.17:28
th1aAny other thoughts about the wording before I let you go?17:29
th1aI'll email Bhaskar.17:29
th1aHave a good week folks!17:30
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:30
jfrochenice week 217:31
ignasth1a: btw bhaskar is using trunk so he has to translate the missing strings (i have uploaded a more up to date pot file) to get at least some missing translations17:41
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wdickersgood morning17:56
th1aHi guys.17:57
th1aI have to go make a phone call, but check this out: svn co
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aelknerOk, so what are we looking at here?18:03
th1aAn agent!18:03
th1aIt does register, subscribe and adds a StaffPersonal.18:04
th1aCalled from the command line.18:04
wdickershmm, when I try to start my tinyzis I get the "no module named transaction" error again18:04
aelknerwdickers: did you do an svn up of tinyzis?18:06
wdickersI tried, but it says "skipped '.'"18:06
wdickerslet me check out a new copy18:06
wdickersI get the same thing. I downloaded the tgz file from eduforge18:10
th1aI can never remember what causes that error.18:10
wdickersI now checked it out from hosted-projects and svn upped, same thing. I think it's something about the ZOPE library?18:11
th1aIs this the same computer you usually use?18:11
wdickerswell anyway, can you get it working aelkner on your own comp?18:12
wdickersyes, maddog18:12
aelknerth1a: I'm still trying to figure out how to use
th1aWell, you need the google.appsforyourdomain library, and a Google Apps for your Domain account to actually use it.18:14
wdickersdoes it use tinyzis or google for the ZIS?18:14
aelknerHow would I get those things?18:14
th1aBut if you have those things, you can just do 'python -rsg' to register, subscribe to StaffPersonal and get its messages.18:15
th1aaelkner: It isn't really worth the bother or trying to make it work.18:15
th1aIt is an (incomplete, yet) example.18:16
aelknerIt uses a variable, OBJECTS, that doesn't seem to be set anywhere.18:16
th1aAh.  Perhaps I forgot to svn up after I fixed that.18:18
aelknerDo you mean svn commit?18:18
th1aJust did it.18:19
wdickersso what does this agent do?18:20
th1aAt this point, it subscribes to StaffPersonal.18:21
th1aAnd it manages add messages.18:21
th1aSo that when a staff member is added to your SIS or whatever provides the StaffPersonal object, an account is added for that user to the GMail for the school's domain.18:22
wdickersoh, that's really cool.18:23
wdickersBut why is there a need for passwords and domains like in google.conf?18:23
th1aBecause you need to authenticate as the admin of the domain.18:24
th1aGoogle Apps for your Domain gives you GMail accounts using your domain name.18:24
th1aAnd it is being marketed to schools.18:24
th1a(And is free and super easy to set up if you've got your own domain name)18:24
wdickersOh, so it wouldn't be but rather for example?18:24
aelknerSo it sends an intermediate ack followed by a final ack, right?18:27
aelknerMay I suggest the base class have functions sendIntermediateAck and sendFInalAck that translate to the calls you used?18:28
th1aSo most of your work on an agent is made up of these methods like "addStaffPersonal" which have to do some additional XML processing and then tell the client app what to do (or just reach into its database).18:28
th1aaelkner: That would be reasonable.18:29
aelknerSo anyway, this looks like a nice example of using the base class that does all of the backround work where the derived class does the app specific work.18:29
th1aYes.  Essentially, it works.18:31
wdickersyes, it is quite clean18:31
th1aI need a tidier method for parsing the command line arguments in the right order.18:31
aelknerSo our stAgent should have similar structure, right?18:32
aelknerDid you say that there already is a stAgent somewhere in the tree?18:32
aelknerI seem to remember you mentioning it, but I don't find it in chesty.18:33
th1aIt is at the same level as chesty.18:34
th1aand googleAppsAgent18:34
aelknersvn co, right?18:36
aelknerI did that, and it didn't complain.18:37
aelknerThe directory had nothing in it, so I'm guessing it's our job to put someting there.18:37
wdickersI look forward to is :-18:41
wdickersBut for now I have to go. See you tomorrow aelkner18:41
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aelknerth1a: Am I right about the next step for me and Will?18:42
aelknerI'll try to get with him tonight to get started.18:42
th1aExcellent.  I'll try to make some more progress on my agent as well.18:43
aelknerth1a: Do I and/or Will have commit access to stAgent?18:43
th1aIt is all in the same repository as Chesty, so you do.18:44
th1aFeel free to make changes to Chesty to make your agent development easier.18:44
th1aConvenience methods, etc.18:45
aelknerCool.  Could you tell me what you get when you svn up stAgent as I created a file and want to see if you get it.18:46
th1aYou committed it?18:47
th1aCan you see this?
aelknerNow I'm confused.  What's it doing there?18:47
th1aThat's just the web ui.18:48
aelknerWhat happened to
th1aDo I have to change the permissions to turn it on?18:48
aelknerThe web ui?18:48
th1aYou can browse the source through the web.18:48
th1aCan you see it?18:48
th1aJust click on the link.18:49
aelknerI'm trying.  One moment.18:49
aelknerFORBIDDEN: BROWSER_VIEW privileges are required to perform this operation18:50
th1aOK.  I'll update those later.18:50
th1aAnyhow, I don't see a checkin.18:51
aelknerHere's what I did:18:51
aelknerI did the svn co
aelknerThe directory was empty.18:51
aelknerI created a file, README.txt18:52
aelknerI did an svn commit -m "testing commit access"18:52
aelknerIt didn't complain, but it didn't ask for any password either.18:52
th1aDid you get an error message?18:52
aelknerDid I do something wrong?18:52
th1aIt doesn't seem to have worked.18:52
aelknerWhy would ask for a password?18:53
th1aIt doesn't do that after you log in once.  Not sure why.18:55
aelknerth1a: Are you looking into this?18:55
th1aThere is not much for me to look into.18:55
aelknerOk, I'm guessing svn has a mechanism similar to a cookie.18:56
th1aYou tried this right now?18:56
aelknerI did what I told you above verbatum.18:56
th1aWhat did it say after you did the svn commit?18:57
aelknerIt returned me to the command line, no message.18:57
th1aWell, I don't know.18:59
aelknerYou know more about this than I do, plus you're the admin guy.18:59
aelknerBTW, what's my password for TRAC?  I tried the insult to jeff you gave me, and it didn't work.19:00
th1aDid you ask me to change it?19:01
aelknerNot that I remember.  Could you reset it and send me an email?19:01
aelknerth1a: If you're sure what to do about my svn commit not doing anything, is there someone we could ask?19:04
aelknernot sure19:04
th1aLet me change your password.19:04
th1aActually, let me change your login.19:04
th1aThat may be part of the problem.19:05
th1aActually, it looks like the problem was you didn't have permission at all.19:06
aelknerStrange that it didn't complain.19:06
th1aIt would be nice if it would give you an error message when that happens.19:06
th1aCheck your gmail account.19:06
aelknerI'm looged into my computer as aelkner.  How would I use alanelkner?19:07
aelknersvn commmit -u alanelkner -m "..."?19:08
th1aJust try it same as usual.19:10
aelknerI did svn commit -m "Testing commit access"19:11
aelknerIt just returns the command line.19:11
th1aoy vey.19:11
th1aTry a clean checkout?19:12
aelknerI did the following:19:14
aelknerrm -rf stAgent19:14
aelknersvn co
aelknercd stAgent19:15
aelknerecho "foo" > README.txt19:15
aelknersvn commit -m "Testing commit access"19:15
aelknerStill nothing.19:15
th1aOK... looks like you need to go into ~/.subversion/auth/svn.ssl.server and delete the file corresponding to the server in question.19:17
aelknerI see two criptic file names there.  Delete them both?19:18
th1aIf you look at the contents you can probably figure out the relevant one.19:19
aelknerThere's a lot of cryptic stuff in bpth files, but one thing that's clear is the site names are different:19:20
aelknerone of them is for and the other for svn1.hosted-projects...19:21
aelknerShall I rm the one for hosted -projects19:21
aelknerI won't ask for your answer.  I did the rm command.19:22
aelknerth1a: now should I repeat the svn co and svn commit comands?19:23
th1aOr just try it.19:23
aelknerI did, and the result was the same: svn commit returned the command prompt with no message.19:24
th1aAfter a clean checkout, too?19:25
aelknerI did the exact sequence above including rm -rf stAgent.19:25
th1aDid it ask you to log in ever today?19:26
aelknerNo.  When I did the svn co, it asked me what to do with the certificate, so I answered "p" for permanent.19:27
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th1aI'm at a loss.19:30
aelknerIs there someone who could help?19:31
th1aAre you doing this on maddog?19:32
aelknerThis is on my own machine.19:32
th1aHm... running linux?19:32
th1aPerhaps if you tried this as another user?  That'd help in debugging.19:33
th1aOr tried on another machine?19:33
aelknerI'll try on madog.19:33
th1aI'm going to take a shower.19:35
aelknerI did the same sequence of commands as above (minus the rm -rf stAgent as there was none), and the result was the same.19:35
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th1aOh, ha ha.19:50
th1aDid you do 'svn add README.txt'?19:51
aelknerI was on the phone.19:51
aelknerNo I didn't.  Dugh!19:51
aelknerOne moment.19:52
th1aTherein lies the problem.19:52
aelknerAuthentication realm: <> sif login19:52
aelknerPassword for 'aelkner':19:52
aelknerI entered whatever and it asked for the user.  I gave alanelkner and the password, and it said it transfered.19:53
aelknerth1a: do you see it now?19:54
aelknerCould we give me back my aelkner account now?19:55
aelknerIt would save me the step of failing on aelkner and specifying alanelkner.19:56
aelknerAlso, does wdickers have an account?19:57
mgedminor you could pass https://alanelkner@svn1.../ to svn co19:58
aelknerMust I?19:58
th1aI changed the login back.19:58
th1aCheck your email.19:58
aelknerNo password?19:58
aelknerThe email didn't specify the password, but the one I got for alanelkner worked.20:01
aelknerOk.  It looks good.  I verified that making changes on my machine comes down to maddog and visa versa.  Cool.20:07
aelknerth1a: does wdickers have an account?20:07
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