IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2006-12-20

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mattva01hmm quiet channel05:14
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aelknerWill, Jeff asked me to get a message to him:18:01
aelknerI just spoke with Tom, and he said that he and ignas are going to be there for all four days of the sprint.18:02
aelknerCould you tell Jeff that now please?18:02
th1aI just sent him an email.18:02
wdickershe got it18:02
aelknerSo Will, did you get to in the 2.0 spec yet?18:03
aelknerthla: We're not going to worry about SIF_Provision for now, right?18:04
aelknerth1a: ?18:05
aelknerIt does say in that spec that the other elements are not going to be supported in later versions.  Are you concerned about that?18:06
wdickersI have to check that part, but right now I'm registering for Pycon18:06
th1aNot at the moment.18:06
th1aIt is an easy change anyhow.18:06
wdickersok I'm registered, opening the spec now18:08
aelknerI think we were talking about, the SIF_Event last we spoke.18:10
aelknerIt seems simple enough.  Your app adds, changes, or deletes an object, it send this type of message.18:10
aelknerIf another agent is registered as a subscriber to that type of object, it will receive the event message.18:11
wdickersso it has to check to make sure it doesn't send the event to the agent that originally sent it?18:11
aelknerThat pulls together, register, subscribe, and event.18:11
aelknerThe ZIS will have to handle that.18:12
wdickersright, that's what I meant18:12
aelknerYou see how, he SIF_Request message gets quite a bit more complicated.18:13
wdickersyeah, I saw SIF_Query and ExtendedQuery18:13
aelknerThere's the concept of query that gets intoduced.18:13
aelknerYeh, I think we won't have to worry about that for your first milestone.18:13
aelknerThe Feb 11 science fair date I mean.18:13
wdickersyeah, we just need to get a proof-of-concept thing18:14
aelknerIt would be enough if we got register, provide, and events to work to hook up two agents.18:14
aelknerWe don't even have to involve schooltool at first.18:14
aelknerWe just need to have two agents use a text file as if it were a db.18:15
th1aI guess we're thinking of the testing differently.18:15
th1aI'd say you don't need two agents, you need one agent with tests.18:16
aelknerThen have one add a record to its db, send an event message to the ZIS, and demonstrate that the other agent received the message and added the new record to its db.18:16
wdickersare you sure the agents will be able to use a text db? Or do we have to have a go-between?18:16
aelknerFor Will's project, he needs to knock the judges socks off with a demo of two agents communicating through the ZIS.18:16
th1aI know, but the first step is to write tests.18:16
aelknerBut you're already doing that.18:17
th1aI mean, you don't have to write all the tests first...18:17
th1aYou have to write tests for your subclass.18:17
aelknerWhat is there to test but the reception of messages that are expected?18:18
th1aWhat you do with the messages.18:18
aelknerThat's why you set up the fake message queues in
aelknerWill, we could in fact do the same with our test agent.18:19
th1aYou should.18:20
aelknerTom, where can we put our code to not conflict with your file names?18:20
th1aYou can put it in your own package and import chesty.18:20
aelknerIf in the same dir, then we need different names for things like
aelknerOk, our own package.18:20
wdickersso what would our queue of messages be?18:21
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th1aIn exam?18:21
aelknerThat would be Will's question?18:21
wdickersYes, what is the test we will be doing on our test agent?18:22
wdickersI mean, what did you have in mind aelkner?18:22
th1aEssentially the same tests I did, but you'd check to see if the results happened in your test ZODB.18:22
jelknerth1a: beg my pardon, but can i but in here and steel tom for a few moments?18:22
wdickersAha, I got it now18:22
th1aI can talk to both elkners at the same time for brief periods.18:23
th1aMore than five minutes and I might go insane, however.18:23
aelknerJeff, keep it brief, for Tom's sake.18:23
jelknermeet me on the prvate chat, and ignor my younger brother!18:23
jelkneri need to discuss plane tickets and such18:23
th1aI'm in the private chat.18:24
aelknerwdickers: forget them.  We should discuss the use case as you asked.18:24
jelknerth1a: i don't see you there?18:24
th1ajelkner: You don't see me?18:25
jelknerth1: i see you here, but not there18:25
aelkner1) no ZODB for bnow.18:25
aelknerjelkner: I had the same problem with sricter yesterday and he told me about /msg NickServ id password.18:26
aelknerDoes that sound familiar?18:26
aelknerwdickers: in the meantime18:27
aelkner1) our test agent starts up and prints the contents of its db, a flat file containing one record.18:27
aelkner2) it registers and prints the ack message it receives.18:28
aelkner3) it provides an object of type "Person" and prints the ack message.18:28
wdickersSorry, but where does the agent use the database in the code? I can't seem to find an instance, I thought the db would be passed along with the conf but it seems not so18:29
aelkner4) It subscribes to "Person" and prints the ack message.18:29
aelknerI'm figuring that we don't worry about the db in the conf for now.18:30
aelknerWe will use a flat file as the db.18:30
aelknerEach line will contain a person record which is merely First name, tab, Second Name.18:30
aelknerOr space, doesn't matter.18:31
aelknerReading the file an splitting the names builds a list of records which are themselves a list of two names, first and last.18:31
aelknerTracing the records is one of the tests.18:32
aelknerWhat we want to test is the message handling and the corresponsing updates to the db.18:32
wdickersright, but how does the agent use the db? Would we have to make a which would parse the db?18:33
aelknerWe could make a  It will be small, but that does keep it isolated which is better programming practice.18:34
aelknerSo our first tests could be on the db itself.18:34
wdickersright, okay18:34
aelknerimport db and init the db, dump the db, add a record, dump the db, delete, and so on.18:35
aelknerI think first and last name will be enough for the judges, don't you think?18:35
aelknerIt's the communcation that will impress them.18:36
wdickersyeah, I really like that structure : )18:36
aelknerGood.  We could get started by making the new package.18:37
wdickersSo how would you want the text organized again? Or could we simply make objects and pickle them?18:37
aelknerpickling is easier coding-wise, but it's nicer to have a file that's readable.18:38
aelknerDickers Will18:38
aelknerElkner Alan18:38
aelkner... is easy to read.18:38
aelknerread_db() results in the list of lists.18:39
wdickersokay. I think I might actually try and code that tonight, I'm excited : D18:39
wdickersAnd with that I'm out of time. email me if you have any questions/input/instructions/etc.18:40
aelknerOkay.  Have fun.18:40
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th1aaelkner: In this case, you should use the ZODB for your test agent.18:42
th1aThat's pretty much what you're testing.18:42
aelknerNo it's the communcation that we're testing; the db is incidental.18:43
th1aYou don't need to test the communication.18:43
th1aThat's my department.18:44
aelknerWe're going to create our own class derived from the base class, and then test its ability to communcate.18:45
th1aYou don't need to test that.18:45
aelknerThat's our end-toend test.18:46
aelknerThink of Will's science project for a second.18:46
aelknerHe needs to demostrate to the judge two agents who are communcating with each other.18:46
th1aThere is plenty for Will to do to tie this in to SchoolTool.18:47
aelknerTie what into schooltool?18:47
th1aGetting the HTTP requests running over the wire is not the issue.18:47
th1aThe agent?18:47
aelknerThat's the ONLY issue.18:47
aelknerThat's what will win him the contest.18:47
aelknerThe judge doesn't care about schooltool.18:48
th1aI'm not saying it isn't going to happen, I'm just saying it's one of the most trivial parts of the project.18:48
aelknerAnd neither do I until we have succesful communcation.18:48
aelknerIt doesn't seem trivial to me.18:48
aelknerThere's a lot involved with registering, sending events and the like.18:49
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th1aI don't know that we're talking about the same thing here.18:49
aelknerI think I've been pretty clear with the project goal.18:50
aelknerWill is going to have two machines.18:50
aelknerThey will print out theri db to start the demo.18:50
aelknerThen he'll push a button and one will send a message to the other.18:51
th1aAll I'm saying is that turning on the HTTP isn't hard.18:51
aelknervia the ZIS of course.18:51
aelknerSo we'll do it.18:51
aelknerI like simple.18:51
aelknerBy mid-January, I hope to be close one this.18:52
aelknerIf we are, we could add schooltool to the mix, but if not, no harm.18:52
aelknerI know from my own experience with an app that I wrote that communcated between two machines that CEO types love that stuff.18:53
aelknerThe judges will go crazy.18:53
aelknerEven if it's as simple as Last name, First name.18:53
aelknerSo Will and I will think about messages and wait for your changes you targeted for Christmas.18:54
aelknerWill you have HTTP working by then?18:55
th1aI'll have it working tomorrow.18:55
aelknerWe'll look forward to seeing it.18:56
aelknerCould you send us an email when you reach that milestone?18:58
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Lumieretom... can you help me getting schooltool trunk running somewhere?19:18
Lumiereor is it just really easy to do?19:21
ignasLumiere: what precisely is "somewhere"?19:26
Lumierewell in this case19:26
Lumieremy internal test server19:26
ignaslinux ?19:26
ignaswhich distribution?19:26
Lumiereit's an ubuntu dapper19:26
ignasyay :)19:26
ignasgot root?19:27
LumiereI have root on everything here19:27
LumiereI was the volunteer sysop since I was going to High School here19:27
Lumierenow I just get paid to do it19:27
ignasshould have instructions19:27
Lumierethose are missing a step19:28
Lumiereor does make test require everything above it19:29
Lumierehmm... getting an error from my checkout... while running msgmerge... internationalized messages should not contain the '\r' escape sequence19:29
ignasnort an error19:29
ignasa warning19:29
Lumierethen it worked19:29
Lumiererunning tests19:30
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Lumiereth1a: here?22:43
Lumiereignas: here?22:45
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