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| mattva01 | hmm quiet channel | 05:14 |
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| wdickers | morning | 18:00 |
| Lumiere | hey | 18:01 |
| aelkner | Will, Jeff asked me to get a message to him: | 18:01 |
| aelkner | I just spoke with Tom, and he said that he and ignas are going to be there for all four days of the sprint. | 18:02 |
| aelkner | Could you tell Jeff that now please? | 18:02 |
| th1a | I just sent him an email. | 18:02 |
| wdickers | he got it | 18:02 |
| aelkner | Cool. | 18:02 |
| aelkner | So Will, did you get to 4.1.1.9 in the 2.0 spec yet? | 18:03 |
| aelkner | thla: We're not going to worry about SIF_Provision for now, right? | 18:04 |
| aelkner | th1a: ? | 18:05 |
| th1a | Right. | 18:05 |
| aelkner | It does say in that spec that the other elements are not going to be supported in later versions. Are you concerned about that? | 18:06 |
| wdickers | I have to check that part, but right now I'm registering for Pycon | 18:06 |
| th1a | Not at the moment. | 18:06 |
| th1a | It is an easy change anyhow. | 18:06 |
| aelkner | Ok. | 18:07 |
| wdickers | ok I'm registered, opening the spec now | 18:08 |
| aelkner | I think we were talking about 4.1.1.8, the SIF_Event last we spoke. | 18:10 |
| aelkner | It seems simple enough. Your app adds, changes, or deletes an object, it send this type of message. | 18:10 |
| aelkner | If another agent is registered as a subscriber to that type of object, it will receive the event message. | 18:11 |
| wdickers | so it has to check to make sure it doesn't send the event to the agent that originally sent it? | 18:11 |
| aelkner | That pulls together, register, subscribe, and event. | 18:11 |
| aelkner | The ZIS will have to handle that. | 18:12 |
| wdickers | right, that's what I meant | 18:12 |
| aelkner | You see how 4.1.1.9, he SIF_Request message gets quite a bit more complicated. | 18:13 |
| wdickers | yeah, I saw SIF_Query and ExtendedQuery | 18:13 |
| aelkner | There's the concept of query that gets intoduced. | 18:13 |
| aelkner | Yeh, I think we won't have to worry about that for your first milestone. | 18:13 |
| aelkner | The Feb 11 science fair date I mean. | 18:13 |
| wdickers | yeah, we just need to get a proof-of-concept thing | 18:14 |
| aelkner | It would be enough if we got register, provide, and events to work to hook up two agents. | 18:14 |
| aelkner | We don't even have to involve schooltool at first. | 18:14 |
| aelkner | We just need to have two agents use a text file as if it were a db. | 18:15 |
| th1a | I guess we're thinking of the testing differently. | 18:15 |
| th1a | I'd say you don't need two agents, you need one agent with tests. | 18:16 |
| aelkner | Then have one add a record to its db, send an event message to the ZIS, and demonstrate that the other agent received the message and added the new record to its db. | 18:16 |
| wdickers | are you sure the agents will be able to use a text db? Or do we have to have a go-between? | 18:16 |
| aelkner | For Will's project, he needs to knock the judges socks off with a demo of two agents communicating through the ZIS. | 18:16 |
| th1a | I know, but the first step is to write tests. | 18:16 |
| aelkner | But you're already doing that. | 18:17 |
| th1a | I mean, you don't have to write all the tests first... | 18:17 |
| th1a | You have to write tests for your subclass. | 18:17 |
| aelkner | What is there to test but the reception of messages that are expected? | 18:18 |
| th1a | What you do with the messages. | 18:18 |
| aelkner | That's why you set up the fake message queues in exam.py? | 18:19 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:19 |
| aelkner | Will, we could in fact do the same with our test agent. | 18:19 |
| th1a | You should. | 18:20 |
| aelkner | Tom, where can we put our code to not conflict with your file names? | 18:20 |
| th1a | You can put it in your own package and import chesty. | 18:20 |
| aelkner | If in the same dir, then we need different names for things like exam.py. | 18:20 |
| aelkner | Ok, our own package. | 18:20 |
| wdickers | so what would our queue of messages be? | 18:21 |
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| th1a | In exam? | 18:21 |
| aelkner | That would be Will's question? | 18:21 |
| wdickers | Yes, what is the test we will be doing on our test agent? | 18:22 |
| wdickers | I mean, what did you have in mind aelkner? | 18:22 |
| th1a | Essentially the same tests I did, but you'd check to see if the results happened in your test ZODB. | 18:22 |
| jelkner | th1a: beg my pardon, but can i but in here and steel tom for a few moments? | 18:22 |
| wdickers | Aha, I got it now | 18:22 |
| th1a | I can talk to both elkners at the same time for brief periods. | 18:23 |
| th1a | More than five minutes and I might go insane, however. | 18:23 |
| jelkner | lol | 18:23 |
| aelkner | Jeff, keep it brief, for Tom's sake. | 18:23 |
| jelkner | meet me on the prvate chat, and ignor my younger brother! | 18:23 |
| jelkner | i need to discuss plane tickets and such | 18:23 |
| th1a | I'm in the private chat. | 18:24 |
| aelkner | wdickers: forget them. We should discuss the use case as you asked. | 18:24 |
| aelkner | Ready? | 18:24 |
| jelkner | th1a: i don't see you there? | 18:24 |
| th1a | jelkner: You don't see me? | 18:25 |
| wdickers | yesa | 18:25 |
| wdickers | *yes | 18:25 |
| aelkner | Ok: | 18:25 |
| jelkner | th1: i see you here, but not there | 18:25 |
| aelkner | 1) no ZODB for bnow. | 18:25 |
| th1a | Huh. | 18:25 |
| aelkner | jelkner: I had the same problem with sricter yesterday and he told me about /msg NickServ id password. | 18:26 |
| aelkner | Does that sound familiar? | 18:26 |
| aelkner | wdickers: in the meantime | 18:27 |
| aelkner | 1) our test agent starts up and prints the contents of its db, a flat file containing one record. | 18:27 |
| aelkner | 2) it registers and prints the ack message it receives. | 18:28 |
| aelkner | 3) it provides an object of type "Person" and prints the ack message. | 18:28 |
| wdickers | Sorry, but where does the agent use the database in the code? I can't seem to find an instance, I thought the db would be passed along with the conf but it seems not so | 18:29 |
| aelkner | 4) It subscribes to "Person" and prints the ack message. | 18:29 |
| aelkner | I'm figuring that we don't worry about the db in the conf for now. | 18:30 |
| aelkner | We will use a flat file as the db. | 18:30 |
| aelkner | Each line will contain a person record which is merely First name, tab, Second Name. | 18:30 |
| aelkner | Or space, doesn't matter. | 18:31 |
| aelkner | Reading the file an splitting the names builds a list of records which are themselves a list of two names, first and last. | 18:31 |
| aelkner | Tracing the records is one of the tests. | 18:32 |
| aelkner | What we want to test is the message handling and the corresponsing updates to the db. | 18:32 |
| wdickers | right, but how does the agent use the db? Would we have to make a db.py which would parse the db? | 18:33 |
| aelkner | We could make a db.py. It will be small, but that does keep it isolated which is better programming practice. | 18:34 |
| aelkner | So our first tests could be on the db itself. | 18:34 |
| wdickers | right, okay | 18:34 |
| aelkner | import db and init the db, dump the db, add a record, dump the db, delete, and so on. | 18:35 |
| aelkner | I think first and last name will be enough for the judges, don't you think? | 18:35 |
| aelkner | It's the communcation that will impress them. | 18:36 |
| aelkner | okay? | 18:36 |
| wdickers | yeah, I really like that structure : ) | 18:36 |
| aelkner | Good. We could get started by making the new package. | 18:37 |
| wdickers | So how would you want the text organized again? Or could we simply make objects and pickle them? | 18:37 |
| aelkner | pickling is easier coding-wise, but it's nicer to have a file that's readable. | 18:38 |
| aelkner | Dickers Will | 18:38 |
| aelkner | Elkner Alan | 18:38 |
| aelkner | ... is easy to read. | 18:38 |
| aelkner | read_db() results in the list of lists. | 18:39 |
| wdickers | okay. I think I might actually try and code that tonight, I'm excited : D | 18:39 |
| wdickers | And with that I'm out of time. email me if you have any questions/input/instructions/etc. | 18:40 |
| aelkner | Okay. Have fun. | 18:40 |
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| th1a | aelkner: In this case, you should use the ZODB for your test agent. | 18:42 |
| th1a | That's pretty much what you're testing. | 18:42 |
| aelkner | No it's the communcation that we're testing; the db is incidental. | 18:43 |
| th1a | You don't need to test the communication. | 18:43 |
| th1a | That's my department. | 18:44 |
| aelkner | We're going to create our own class derived from the base class, and then test its ability to communcate. | 18:45 |
| th1a | You don't need to test that. | 18:45 |
| aelkner | That's our end-toend test. | 18:46 |
| aelkner | Think of Will's science project for a second. | 18:46 |
| aelkner | He needs to demostrate to the judge two agents who are communcating with each other. | 18:46 |
| th1a | There is plenty for Will to do to tie this in to SchoolTool. | 18:47 |
| aelkner | Tie what into schooltool? | 18:47 |
| th1a | Getting the HTTP requests running over the wire is not the issue. | 18:47 |
| th1a | The agent? | 18:47 |
| aelkner | That's the ONLY issue. | 18:47 |
| aelkner | That's what will win him the contest. | 18:47 |
| aelkner | The judge doesn't care about schooltool. | 18:48 |
| th1a | I'm not saying it isn't going to happen, I'm just saying it's one of the most trivial parts of the project. | 18:48 |
| aelkner | And neither do I until we have succesful communcation. | 18:48 |
| aelkner | It doesn't seem trivial to me. | 18:48 |
| aelkner | There's a lot involved with registering, sending events and the like. | 18:49 |
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| th1a | I don't know that we're talking about the same thing here. | 18:49 |
| aelkner | I think I've been pretty clear with the project goal. | 18:50 |
| aelkner | Will is going to have two machines. | 18:50 |
| aelkner | They will print out theri db to start the demo. | 18:50 |
| aelkner | Then he'll push a button and one will send a message to the other. | 18:51 |
| th1a | All I'm saying is that turning on the HTTP isn't hard. | 18:51 |
| aelkner | via the ZIS of course. | 18:51 |
| aelkner | So we'll do it. | 18:51 |
| aelkner | I like simple. | 18:51 |
| aelkner | By mid-January, I hope to be close one this. | 18:52 |
| aelkner | If we are, we could add schooltool to the mix, but if not, no harm. | 18:52 |
| aelkner | I know from my own experience with an app that I wrote that communcated between two machines that CEO types love that stuff. | 18:53 |
| aelkner | The judges will go crazy. | 18:53 |
| aelkner | Even if it's as simple as Last name, First name. | 18:53 |
| aelkner | So Will and I will think about messages and wait for your changes you targeted for Christmas. | 18:54 |
| aelkner | Will you have HTTP working by then? | 18:55 |
| th1a | I'll have it working tomorrow. | 18:55 |
| aelkner | We'll look forward to seeing it. | 18:56 |
| aelkner | Could you send us an email when you reach that milestone? | 18:58 |
| th1a | OK. | 19:03 |
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| Lumiere | tom... can you help me getting schooltool trunk running somewhere? | 19:18 |
| Lumiere | or is it just really easy to do? | 19:21 |
| ignas | Lumiere: what precisely is "somewhere"? | 19:26 |
| Lumiere | well in this case | 19:26 |
| Lumiere | my internal test server | 19:26 |
| ignas | linux ? | 19:26 |
| ignas | which distribution? | 19:26 |
| Lumiere | it's an ubuntu dapper | 19:26 |
| ignas | yay :) | 19:26 |
| ignas | got root? | 19:27 |
| Lumiere | uh | 19:27 |
| Lumiere | I have root on everything here | 19:27 |
| Lumiere | I was the volunteer sysop since I was going to High School here | 19:27 |
| Lumiere | XD | 19:27 |
| Lumiere | now I just get paid to do it | 19:27 |
| ignas | http://www.schooltool.org/documentation/setting-up-a-development-server/ | 19:27 |
| ignas | should have instructions | 19:27 |
| Lumiere | heh | 19:28 |
| Lumiere | those are missing a step | 19:28 |
| Lumiere | or does make test require everything above it | 19:29 |
| Lumiere | hmm... getting an error from my checkout... while running msgmerge... internationalized messages should not contain the '\r' escape sequence | 19:29 |
| ignas | nort an error | 19:29 |
| ignas | a warning | 19:29 |
| Lumiere | ah | 19:29 |
| Lumiere | olk | 19:29 |
| Lumiere | then it worked | 19:29 |
| Lumiere | running tests | 19:30 |
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| Lumiere | dang | 22:43 |
| Lumiere | th1a: here? | 22:43 |
| Lumiere | ignas: here? | 22:45 |
| Lumiere | https://svn.schooltool.org/trac/cando/wiki/ResourceImprovementBackground | 23:17 |
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| Lumiere | bbl | 23:22 |
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