IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2006-12-11

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jfrocheignas: hello there12:53
jfrochefine ?12:53
jfrochei am playing with the datetimeformatter12:54
jfrochei am not sure that i put it in the good place12:54
jfrochei v created a new package which is dateformater12:54
ignashmm, it should go into skin i think12:54
jfrochehave a browser and inside it12:54
jfrocheok i move it12:55
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jfrocheignas: should i do also a ftest for this or unittest is enough ?13:12
ignashmm, i can't see the code :/13:14
ignasyou should at least add a line or two in functional tests for calendar13:14
ignasto check whether dates are rendered normally13:14
ignasdates that are using the formatter13:14
jfrochenot commited yet, working still on my branch 'cause i want your approval first13:17
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ignasjfroche: mail me the patch when it'll be good enough13:41
jfrocheok no problem13:41
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jfrocheignas: have some trouble with testing14:57
jfroche    view.localizedFullDate()14:58
jfrocheDifferences (ndiff with -expected +actual):14:58
jfroche    - u'vendredi 1 d├ęcembre 2006'14:58
jfroche    ?               ^^14:58
jfroche    + u'vendredi 1 d\xe9cembre 2006'14:58
jfroche    ?14:58
jfrochefile encoding is utf814:59
ignasput it in r""" """ and type  u'vendredi 1 d\xe9cembre 2006' in the doctest14:59
ignasyou should avoid putting utf8 in code in general iirc14:59
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jfrocheignas: i have different formats of date to localize, is it better to do different method in a DateFormatterView(BrowserView) or create different classes which inherit from BrowserView with a just one __call__ method ?15:31
jfrochedoing context/some_date/@@short_date or context/some_date/@@date/short_date ?15:33
mgedminjfroche: consider this question from the user's perspective15:35
mgedminthe user in this instance is the person who writes page templates15:35
mgedmincontext/some_date/@@short_date, context/some_date/@@long_date is nicer15:35
mgedminso you need different view declarations15:35
jfrocheok wasn't sure which one the user would find nicer15:36
* mgedmin is thinking15:36
mgedminif you use <browser:page> then you can put all the formatting functions in one class, and use the attribute=".." attribute in zcml15:36
jfrocheright that's what i was doing15:36
mgedminand that would create new subclasses behind the scenes15:36
jfrochebut i ll move them to different classes and change it view declaration in zcml15:37
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* mgedmin wanna food16:00
* th1a shuffles some papers around16:29
th1ahi ignas.16:30
ignashave you recently seen pcardune in #schooltool?16:31
ignasi think i'll have to try to explain what am i doing with timetable events to him by email16:31
th1aHaven't noticed.16:31
ignasnow that the picture is getting clearer16:32
th1ajfroche: ayt?16:32
th1aPicture of your implementation?16:32
jfrochehello th1a16:32
th1ahi jfroche.16:32
ignasth1a: yes16:32
th1aWhat have you decided?16:32
jfrocheth1a: how is the construction zone there ?16:32
th1aWasher/dryer are here.16:33
th1aNo distractions pending.16:33
jfrocheare you happy with the good news from Nicolas ?16:34
th1aYes.  Do you want to tell ignas?16:34
jfrocheignas: we have a new school in Belgium which is happy to welcome me16:35
ignascool :)16:35
jfrocheand gave the authorisation directly16:35
jfrocheso i ll begin there in january16:35
ignasnice to hear that16:35
jfrocheit's in Bruxelles16:35
jfrocheignas:  we went there when we visit the European Parliament, remember the kids playing with balls there ? it's this school16:36
ignasbtw, anyone with a dapper installation without proper setuptools?16:36
ignaswell - in dapper you can't use schooltool without root priviledges16:37
ignasunless you know how to do it :)16:37
ignasi want to write a how to16:37
ignastesting the how to immediatelly would be quite nice16:37
ignasi mean i would explain how to do it, and someone would try to walk the steps ...16:38
th1aThere's always qemu, vmware...16:38
ignaswell, i can do it for myself, but i am afraid that i'll skip some steps or some magic will be, well - too magic :)16:39
jfrocheonly debian or edgy in here16:39
ignasso having someone unexperienced try following my directions would be like a safety net16:39
th1aI'd just do my best and wait for the complaining emails.16:40
ignasok :)16:40
th1aOK, bringing some structure here....16:41
th1alets talk about...16:41
th1aa) ignas update16:41
th1aAnd what's going on with the timetable implementation.16:41
th1ab) general jfroche update16:41
th1ac) the new school16:41
th1ad) next year16:42
ignashave passing functional tests with persistent timetable events, i'll finish up unit tests soon and commit.16:42
th1aInto the trunk?16:42
ignasit's a bit difficult in some places because i just don't want to do it in one huge leap16:42
th1aIt is a big change.16:42
ignasyou can say so16:43
th1aDo we end up with less code?16:43
ignasnot much yet, as i won't fix everything that is possible16:43
ignasto limit the scope16:43
ignasi am trying  to do it in steps16:43
th1aWhat else will need to be done in the future?16:43
ignasremove the tt checkboxes in overlays, properly functionally test term/ttschema exceptions16:44
ignasfix attendance to use unique event ids instead of period_id + date pair16:44
ignasall of that not being crucial16:45
ignasjust very nice to have16:45
th1aCrucial eventually.16:45
ignasi kind of got stuck with the person though, i'll talk to pcardune about what he thinks, and what kinds of persons do they need16:45
ignasmaybe that will help me to come up with some generalisation of the feature set16:46
ignasi am switching between person/tt_events now depending on which one i am more stuck with16:46
th1aWhen you email pcardune you should probably just email cando-dev16:46
jfrocheignas: adapter solution for person isn't the solution ?16:47
ignasjfroche: i am trying to avoid the "fix unit/functional test infrastructure" step :/16:48
jfrochei see16:48
ignasjust don't want to do that now ...16:48
ignasit would be useful, but i don't really have a plan for nice migration to layers16:48
ignasin unit/functional tests16:49
ignasand that would affect release, nightly builds etc.16:49
th1aIt is funny how the testing infrastructure influences which changes are easy and which are hard.16:50
th1aAlthough without testing, changes are often harder than they look.16:50
ignaswell, we haven't ever tried having an extension built for schooltool16:50
ignasso no one really did the separation of extension functional tests and schooltool functional tests16:51
ignasas well as deployment of schooltool extension16:51
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th1aAnything else, ignas?16:52
ignasno i think16:52
ignasoh, i have a new/used keyboard :)16:52
ignasand i didn't do much work on tuesday16:52
ignascoffe + laptop do not mix ...16:53
jfrocheunittesting your laptop ?16:53
th1aThat's why the new ones have little drains under the keyboard.16:53
th1aOK.  jfroche.  Any news other than the new school?16:53
jfrochesetup translation server16:54
jfrocheand played with onlinehelp macros (without success)16:54
jfrocheand now finish to translate dates all around16:55
th1aWhat's up with the onlinehelp macros?16:55
jfrochewas suprised that date localization wasn't done before16:55
jfrochei am trying to remove the onlinehelp sections coming from Z316:55
jfrocheas i just want links to helpfile related to schooltool16:56
th1aOh.  I see.16:56
jfrochebut without hardcoding them, no solution yet16:56
th1aOK.  That's not a big problem at this point.16:57
th1aShall we move on to the new school?16:57
jfrochethink so, nothing new except that. still learning a lot while looking/reading files in schooltool sources16:58
th1aOf course.16:58
jfrocheah yes16:58
jfrocheon saturday i met french python fans16:59
jfroche( AFPY -
jfrocheand i managed to have a python track at the FOSDEM16:59
jfroche( )16:59
jfrochei might present SchoolTool there16:59
th1aWhen is that?17:00
jfrochei am the manager of the python track there so it's up to me to decide who speaks17:00
jfroche24 - 25 Feb17:00
th1aAh.  It is in Brussels.17:01
jfrocheat my previous university17:01
jfrocheit's a very well known event for european OSS developpers17:01
th1aHm... I guess that means you won't be coming to PyCon.17:02
th1aWhich is at the same time.17:02
jfrocheforgot about pycon17:02
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jfrocheyou think i should be in pycon ?17:03
th1aI was planning on getting everyone together for that.17:03
ignas_network went down here :/17:03
jfrochei see17:03
jfrocheso i ll do my best to manage to be replaced by someone else17:04
th1aIt is annoying that they are at the same time.17:04
jfrocheby fosdem17:04
jfrochei think i know who17:04
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th1aI'm planning on having a sprint with the cando guys at/after PyCon, so it would really help if you could make it.17:05
th1aIs FOSDEM usually in February?  It seems like it just happened.17:05
th1aTime flys.17:05
jfrocheright they changed17:06
th1aignas:  Does my letter for PyCon look OK?17:06
jfrocheth1a: can you help me financialy for pycon ?17:06
th1aWe'd be paying for it.17:06
th1ajfroche: Do you need a letter to get a visa?17:07
th1aI have to learn about my own country's entrance requirements.17:07
ignas_th1a: your letter seems to be mentioning albertas instead of me in some places17:07
ignas_th1a: or was that just a rough draft ?17:07
th1aI was afraid I might have missed one in there... did I not copy/replace fully?17:08
th1aI'll check it.17:08
th1aMoving on to the new school... my only concern at this point is Denis.17:08
th1aIs there anything to be done politically here to keep everyone reasonably happy?17:09
jfrochei ll ask for the visa17:09
jfrochewuhu just got a mail from Canonical about XML export of Roundup !17:10
jfrocheabout Denis17:10
jfrochehe can come by the Bruxelles school17:11
jfrochebut as i said in my previous mail i would prefer to work on one school after the other17:11
th1aIt sounds like the new school will be a big enough job.17:11
jfrocheit would be nice that i meet them before january17:13
th1aDo you think you can smooth it over with Denis?17:13
jfrochei ll do my best17:13
th1aLet me know if there is anything in particular I can do to help with that.17:14
jfrochei ll meet Nicolas tomorrow17:15
jfrochewill ask him17:15
th1aDo you hav eany specific concerns otherwise?17:15
th1aAbout the school itself?17:15
th1aYou haven't met with them yet, right?17:15
jfrochejust that it's not so near to where i ll live in january17:15
jfrocheno, i ll try to meet them but it's exams period and then it's holiday period17:16
jfrocheso i ll speak about this with Nicolas tom17:16
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th1aIs it near where you'll be living after January?17:17
jfrocheno i ll live no so far from Charleroi17:17
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jfrochei ll take the train to go at the school i think17:17
th1aAh trains.  We don't have those here.17:17
th1aSo... let's talk money for a second.17:18
th1aYour pay includes quarterly bonuses, but this quarter we've been getting the schools set up so we couldn't really set proper goals.17:18
th1aSo the goals for your bonuses are to set up quarterly milestones for next year.17:19
th1aThat is, the goal for your bonus at the end of December.17:19
th1aIs to plan your quarterly goals for next year.17:19
th1aDoes that make sense?17:20
jfrocheit makes sense, except that i am not sure yet if i can get in touch with school before january. And i think it's a good idea to set the milestones without chatting with them17:22
th1aYou don't think it is a good idea, you mean?17:23
jfrochei mean that if I have to setup the milestones and that i have to rewrite them after chatting with them, you won't be happy17:23
jfrochecause i don't know what do they really would like first17:24
th1aRight.  Well, it would be good if you could meet with them this month.17:24
th1aWe have to be a bit more agressive now.17:24
jfrochei can push Nicolas17:25
th1aignas:  Make sense?17:26
th1aignas_: Also, you need to invoice me for your recent work.17:26
th1aI want to get settled up before the end of the year.17:26
ignas_th1a: recent work for lyceum or the things that were done with the unfinished refactoring too ?17:27
* ignas_ doesn't know the invoicing situation :/17:27
ignas_Aiste is managing all that stuff, so i'll talk to her17:28
th1aWell, it would be good if the GUI refactoring was finished, but I'm mostly referring to your lyceum work.17:28
th1aThat stuff should just be invoiced monthly now.17:29
th1aRight at the end of the month.17:29
th1aI think we can wrap up now.17:29
th1aAnything else?17:29
th1aHave a good week, folks.17:30
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:30
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ignas_bye :)17:30
jfrochegood week 217:31
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jstrawhi wdickers, aelkner18:03
aelknerhey there.18:03
th1ahi all.18:03
*** jstraw is now known as Lumiere18:03
LumiereI don't know if there is a meeting planned for today...18:03
aelknerAt 10:0 you mean?18:04
wdickersHey Tom, where is the code for adding a student, when you go to persons/@@add.html?18:04
aelknerI know Jeff plans to keep that consistent.18:04
th1aThe view code?18:04
th1aOr the model?18:04
wdickersview code, thanks ignas18:04
ignas_class PersonAddView(BasicForm)18:04
Lumiereneither dwelsh or I will be able to attend today18:05
LumiereI believe18:05
aelknerI would think dwelsh would let Jeff know if he can't make it.18:06
aelknerAre you going to be with dwelsh today?18:07
Lumierewe have a 12:15 meeting with a corporate partner doing eng stuff for getting new equipments here18:07
Lumierewe're working on new switches and phones for videoconference and our TV labs (the showplace areas for this partnership)18:08
aelknerWhen you see him, ask him to let Jeff know if you won't make the 1:0018:08
th1aI won't be here.18:09
Lumierehe doesn't even get in till 1:0018:09
Lumierehe's on a plane right now18:09
ignas_set the topic of the channel or write an email :)18:10
Lumiereignas_: can anyone set the topic in here other then SteveA?18:13
Lumiere/cs info #schooltool18:13
ignas_Lumiere: don't tell anyone, but everyone can18:13
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wdickersyou still there aelkner?18:18
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aelknerstill here.  looking at the latest on chesty?18:18
aelknerTom, how's it coming along?18:18
wdickersI am slightly confused by doctest.txt. In it agent.sendRegister() is called several times, each time returning a different error?18:24
aelknerYeh, it doesn't really talk to the zis yet, so he's faking out all of that stuff for now.18:25
wdickersI know, but he calls sendRegister() three times in succession, why do they return different errors?18:26
aelknerHe said he would be focusing on the xml plumbing, so I went to which didn't change, but is getting interesting.18:26
aelknerCheck out make Request()18:26
aelknerHe's introcduced the query plumbing.18:27
wdickersAh, so that is the information that the agent is sending to the ZIS?18:28
aelknerYeh, that's the query mechanism.18:29
aelknerWe should check out, too.18:29
wdickersso right now the query will include the object's name and elements. What exactly are the 'elements'?18:30
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aelknerYou got me.18:32
aelknerOr the conditions for that matter.18:32
aelknerI think I can guess, though.18:33
wdickersYeah, and those seem to be 2 links deep, there's multiple loops18:33
aelknerHow do you mean, "two links deep?"18:34
wdickersI mean inside Conditions there are condition(s) and inside those condition(s) there are condition(s)18:34
wdickersthere's conditionGroup.conditions which is an array of condition18:35
wdickersso for each conditions you loop over all the condition18:36
aelknerYeh, it's messy, but first let me answer your question about elements.18:36
aelknerHave you worked with a relational db before, seen an SQL query?18:37
aelknerex/ select name, address from person where ssn > 10000000018:37
aelknername and addres would be the elements of the query, ssn would be a condition.18:38
aelknerThis is an educated guess, but I bet I'm right.18:38
th1aSorry I had to do something else here...18:38
aelknerI was just explaing queries to Will.  Was I right?18:39
th1asendRegister() gives different results because it is pulling different responses off the query stack, which is created in exam.py18:39
wdickersWell I'lll look at the log later, my time's up. So keep explaining and asking questions :)18:40
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th1aThe query syntax is defined in the spec.18:40
aelknerWhat page?18:41
aelknerIt takes forever to find thing in that doc.18:41
th1aYou need to print out the important parts.18:42
th1apgs 36-5618:42
th1a205 - 20718:42
Lumiere*places 1 inch binder in front of aelkner*18:43
th1aaelkner: The query syntax is probably written from the point of view of a relational database.  The queries may be more of a hassle to write for SchoolTool & the ZODB.18:51
aelknerI thought they were relation db oriented.  I was explaining that assumption to Will before.18:52
aelknerI was just looking at that paragraph in the spec.18:52
aelknerI wouldn't worry about it being a hassle converting that paradigm to ZODB.18:53
aelknerI't just a matter of writing the code.18:53
th1aWell, yeah ;-)18:53
aelknerok, an obvious point i admit.18:54
aelknerit probably is the same hassle with a relational db, anyway.18:54
aelkneryou still have to convert the xml to sql.18:54
Lumiereit's still data in and out18:55
aelknerprobably easier with zodb because it's python data structures.18:55
aelknerYou know I think I'm ready to read Section 3 of the spec and get the whole picture.18:56
aelknerIt's coming together for me now that I read it.18:56
aelknerBut I'll need time to read it.18:57
th1aI have to get ready to go to the vet now.18:57
aelknerBut you're there for the 1:00?18:58
aelknerOh, no, you said you couldn't.18:59
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jelknerhey bro!19:59
aelknerHey, am I late.20:00
jelkneryou are 1 minute early20:00
jelknerjason is here20:00
jelknerpaul is not20:00
jelknerits 1, so lets start20:01
jelkner2 agenda items20:01
jelkner1. using the wiki20:01
jelkner2. work updates20:01
jelkneri'll start with 120:01
jelkneraelkner: do you have svn access to the cando repository?20:02
aelkneri do20:02
jelknerhave you tried editing the wiki?20:02
aelknerhaven't even been there yet.20:02
jelknercan you try now?20:02
jelkneri've talked individually with dave, eldar, paul, will, and william20:03
jelknerthey have all accessed the wiki and created there own pages20:03
aelkneri'm logging in, but blanking on my password.20:04
aelknergot it now.20:04
jelknerjinty: u here?20:05
jintyjelkner: yeah, now and then, busy cooking bobotie as well20:06
jelknerif alan has svn access, can he use the same account to access the wiki?20:06
jelkneror do i need to create another one for him?20:07
jintyjelkner: you need to create a new account for wiki access. They are completely separate.20:08
jelknergottcha, thanks!20:08
aelknerreally.  I'm able to use the account i have.20:08
jelkneraelkner: do you see my private message?20:08
jintybut you can just copy his line from the committer password list into the wiki password list20:08
jintythat way he can use the same password for both20:09
jelknerwhere are the lists20:09
jelkneri've just been using the script20:09
jintythey are both in /etc/cando20:09
* jelkner goes to look at /etc/cando...20:09
jintyyeah, but if you open up both those files in a text editor you'll see that they are just text files with a simple format20:10
aelknerI already added my wiki page using my svn account and password, so why all the drama?20:10
jelkneraelkner: you are already in both20:10
jelknermuch ado about nothing...20:11
aelknerPaul must have done that.20:11
aelknerYou see my page now?20:11
jelkneraelkner: check out my page20:11
jelknercan you add the same contents into yours?20:12
jelkneri'm hoping we can all have the following:20:12
jelkner1. contact info20:12
jelkner2. what we are working on (together with date last changed)20:12
jelkneri don't think tom is here20:13
jelkneri emailed him asking him to create the SifagentPackage page20:13
jelknerpcardune has a nice format for those pages20:13
jelkneri was hoping for some more discussion of the wiki20:14
jelknerbut since not many folks are here20:14
jelkneri guess that about wraps things up20:14
aelkneri updated my page.20:15
jelkneronly you stoled my name ;-)20:15
aelkneryou didn't send an email ok.  now look.20:16
aelkneroops.  you didn't send an email I was saying leading up to this meeting.20:16
jelkneri did20:16
jelkneri announced the wiki20:17
aelknerthat's true.20:17
jelknerand the meeting agenda is on the front page20:17
jelknermy main goal is to get folks using the wiki20:17
jelknerthen i can just post the agenda there20:17
jelknerand anyone who has something to add can just put it directly there20:17
aelknermakes sense.20:17
jelknerwikiwiki means quick!20:18
jelknergotta luv it!20:18
jelknerok, i have lessons to plan20:18
jelknerif you don't have anything else...20:18
jelknerpcardune said he'd be here20:19
jelkneri'll call him this evening20:19
aelkneryes he did.20:19
jelknercya later...20:19
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