IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2006-07-25

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mhzth1a: who is the one packaging schooltool in edubuntu?00:20
th1ajinty - Brian Sutherland.00:20
mhzth1a: thx00:20
redduxOk yeah I typed out every line by hand checked my syntax and still got the same error when importing 1 user from the example on the site.00:24
th1aYou didn't really need to go to the trouble.00:25
redduxk well just wanted to make sure I didn't make a mistake00:26
redduxnight folks!00:51
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ignasoops, tab completion :01:12
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th1aHi everyone!16:30
pcarduneHi th1a!16:31
th1aThanks for coming pcardune.16:31
pcarduneI just happened to be here16:31
th1aAh, notification does work much better on xchat-gnome.16:32
th1aAnyone alive in Vilnius?16:33
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th1ahi ignas, gintas.16:35
th1aand jinty.16:35
th1aHas alga told you guys about the sprint?16:35
ignasa bit ;)16:36
th1ajinty:  I just got this query about the DNS for the test sites:  I got the domain request below. Can you clarify whether these are all16:37
th1ajust A records, you don't need any MX records set up for these domains?16:37
th1aignas:  Did he show you the UI work at all?16:37
jintyno, we don't need any MX records.16:37
th1ajinty: Thanks.16:37
jintywe're not going to be running mailservers there16:37
jintyunless you want;)16:38
ignasth1a: no not really, we have an internal deadline on friday so he's very busy on another project (jet lagged too ;)16:38
th1aOK.  Are the rest of you guys busy this week, too?16:39
th1aSo... where to start...16:40
th1apcardune did most of the work in a new branch.16:40
th1aEssentially, we have tabs for main areas of functionality,16:41
ignasth1a: yes i think so, i will be spending most of my time on ivija for the rest of this week16:41
gintaswe've seen some enthusiastic e-mails in the mailing list about the new UI, but not much more16:41
th1aignas:  OK, so that gives us the rest of the week to figure out a proposal...16:42
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th1athere is a bar of buttons underneath.16:43
th1aUnder the tabs.16:43
th1aNeed a screenshot...16:43
th1aThe navigation menu is essentially dead.16:44
th1aAnd the left sidebar is optional.16:44
ignasnot that i will miss it much ;)16:44
th1aIndividual applications can use it, but it isn't necessarily always there.16:45
gintasvictim of friendly fire :)16:45
th1aThat is the static mockup.16:45
th1aDoesn't have the row of buttons in the red bar.16:45
th1aAnd we're NOT putting drop-downs there as shown.16:46
th1aWe've essentially got radio buttons in the bar to switch modes or navigate.16:46
th1aSo if you want to switch from "view" to "edit" you could do that in the red bar.16:47
th1apcardune: Can you explain briefly how the viewlets are set up?16:47
th1aHm... perhaps he is busy.16:49
th1aSo pcardune implemented a large chunk of this transition in one day.16:49
th1aIt was impressive.16:49
th1aAnd thus far doesn't seem to have broken as many of the tests as we thought it would ;-)16:50
th1aYou smile now...16:52
th1aI'm downloading the branch to remind myself of exactly where we stopped.16:53
th1aBut the goal now is to write up what needs to be done to finish.16:54
th1ahi faassen.16:54
th1afaassen: How are things?16:55
faassendid you break any browser tests with those changes? :)16:55
faassenfine, I'm back from my vacation (and europython before that)16:55
th1aLike I said, fewer so far than we feared.16:55
faassencool, sorry, didn't read the whole conversation16:55
pcardune(President of DevIS just asked me to do a schooltool demo sometime in the next couple of weeks)16:56
th1apcardune: Cool.16:56
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th1apcardune:  Are you free to chat here for a bit?16:57
pcardunethe bar with "radio buttons" is a single viewlet manager16:57
pcardunethe weird part (and there may be a better way) is that buttons are registered as viewlets for *all* pages.16:57
pcarduneit is up to the viewlet class to know when to display them16:58
pcarduneas of now, you can specify marker interfaces which views must implement in order for the button to appear16:59
pcarduneand then another set of marker interfaces which views must implement for the button to be selected16:59
ignasouch, i'll look into that17:00
ignasas soon as i'll be able :(17:00
pcarduneso, attendance has two modes at this point: enter and report.  views for entering attendance would implement IAttendanceTabView and IEntryMode17:00
pcarduneone is for the tab, and the other for the radio button17:00
th1aAfter updating my branch, I've only got the attendance tab.17:01
pcarduneth1a: did you log in?17:01
th1aOh, no.17:01
pcarduneI tried to do some stuff with security17:01
pcardunefor some reason the attendance tab still shows up17:01
th1a_OK.  That's a current, working shot.17:05
th1aYes, weFrom the branch.17:06
th1aFrom the branch.17:06
ignaspcardune: if you would describe the problem in an email i'd try helping you17:07
pcarduneignas, well it's not really a problem17:07
pcardunei just wonder if there is a simpler way17:08
th1apcardune: We have to make some time before or during the sprint to make a list of things remaining to do.17:08
th1aOne viewlet manager seems a little inelegant.17:08
algayay for sprints!17:08
th1aDefinitely yay for sprints.  It sucks returning to the fortress of solitude, though.17:09
pcarduneif we had multiple viewlet managers, we would need a metaviewlet manager to manage which viewlet manager to display17:10
gintasth1a: wait till you have children17:10
algagintas: don't be mean17:10
th1agintas: That's coming January 25-ish, btw.17:11
gintaswell then, no more fortress of solitude  (at least of silence) for you :)17:11
algagintas: I think there's still about a year17:11
algaVika, for one, is still working while her daughter sleeps17:12
ignaspcardune: not sure i understand the need for more viewlet managers17:12
ignaspcardune: as i was absent in sprint ;)17:12
th1aYeah, maybe one is fine.17:12
ignaspcardune: what's the motivation ?17:12
th1aGoing meta isn't necessarily better, I suppose.17:12
th1aYes.  Please shoot me.17:13
algathere's a school of thought that if you call an object FooManager, your design is wrong17:13
th1aStop me before I kill again.17:13
gintasyep, who needs managers anyway :)17:14
pcardunealga: what would you call it instead of FooManager?17:14
gintas(I suspect I'll be the next target of th1a)17:14
ignaspcardune: not the name, the design17:14
ignaspcardune: if you need a FooManager you should refactor so you would not need one17:14
pcarduneoh, right17:16
faassenso you get lots of registries everywhere :)17:16
faassenlots and lots of them.17:16
faassenanyway, it's kind of interesting, as when I hear that proposition, that Manager objects are wrong, then I wonder what are these managers, is this utility really one of those evil managers, etc.17:16
ignasa manager in disguise17:17
faassenbut I guess that's the point, the word 'Manager' just doesn't have enough meaning to want to name something that. it means you don't really know what the object is for.17:17
faassenand if you can't name the object better, then your design has issues.17:17
gintashmm, then ManagerManager = Managerie (sic) ;)17:18
th1aOK, so the concrete take away I need here is to plan when pcardune and I are going to make the todo list for finishing this work.17:19
pcarduneth1a, when are you going to be down here?17:20
th1aI'm flying down Thursday evening.17:21
pcardunewhere are you staying?17:22
pcarduneif I may ask17:22
th1aUm... with Welsh?17:22
th1aLet me just jam in a couple other things that recent discussions have brought up:17:24
th1a1) we definitely should design printed reports for taking attendance (for fallback, and classrooms without computers).17:24
th1a2) alga and I discussed just making a second workflow for schools where teachers can excuse absences themselves.17:25
alga1: perhaps we could just tune the realtime form for print media?17:25
algasparklines and all...17:26
th1aThe two main use cases are a) US schools where attendance is formal and centralized, and b) everywhere else.17:26
th1aalga:  Perhaps, particularly at first.17:26
th1apcardune: So... when do you think we should do this?17:27
th1aOur ToDo list?17:27
th1aAnyhow... this was your semi-coherent sprint followup meeting.  I'm going to finish writing up a more coherent summary as well.17:28
pcarduneis thursday alright?17:28
th1apcardune: It is fine with me.  In the evening?17:29
pcarduneanytime during the day as well17:29
pcarduneI will be at the career center all day17:29
th1aI won't be there yet.17:29
th1aUntil the evening.17:29
th1aBut we can do it on IRC in the morning.17:30
pcardunethat's what I was thinking17:30
th1aOK.  10:00?17:30
* th1a bangs the virtual bag of gravel.17:30
pcarduneworks for me17:30
th1aHave a good week folks.  See you next week with a specific plan ;-)17:31
algath1a: Nokia 770 has several VoIP options17:31
algaGoogle Talk and SIP with Gizmo17:31
th1aShould we try that?17:31
algaI think it would be great17:31
th1aCan we do conference calls with either?17:31
algaI don't know17:32
algaGizmo is available on all platforms (Win, Mac, Linux, Nokia)17:32
algaGoogle Talk is Windows and Nokia only17:32
algaGizmo is free-as-in-beer SIP app17:32
algait's main advantage over Skype is a standard protocol: SIP17:33
algaI would really prefer Google Talk, if it only were available on Linux...17:37
algagizmo is yet another IM app17:37
algabut it has those POTS integration things like Skype does17:37
th1aI haven't tried Gizmo yet.17:38
pcardunelooks pretty17:38
th1apcardune: Did you get my message?17:39
th1aAt the sprint... was the red headed kid Robbie or Will?17:41
th1aI got them confused.17:41
faassenDanger Wil Robinson17:47
pcardunebu dum cheuu17:47
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th1apcardune:  Would you want to go to the thing in Ghana by yourself, if the conference could only bring one of us over?18:01
th1aalga:  Old school.18:01
pcarduneth1a: what about you?18:02
pcarduneWhat is the conference actually about?18:02
th1ajust a sec.18:03
pcardunei'm looking up that email you sent me18:03
algaconference about making money over the internet!
th1aKey component: FLOSS School Management System - identify, test and select one or more FLOSS school management systems and integrate into the CD set. Assess localisability and consider a localisation track. e.g. or - there may be other suitable options out there. Team: two educator(s) to test, identify what needs to be done. Developers to familiarise themselves with the s18:05
th1aource code and code. Plan the development tasks. Try to do all this before we arrive, and then code the most critical things during the week (or focus on localisation).18:05
pcarduneI would be happy to go on my own if you thought it made more sense than you going on your own18:06
th1aI'll see what shakes out.  It is dependent on if they can scare up any money because I can't get any.18:09
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th1apcardune: OK... looks like this Ghana thing is going to happen... what international airport do you prefer?19:24
th1apcardune: Perhaps we should speak on the phone.19:26
th1aOr Skype.19:26
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Aisteth1a: do you have time for a chat about finances tomorrow?20:02
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pcarduneth1a or th1a_, I prefer Reagan National Airport20:10
pcarduneWould we be going through senegal?  there are direct flights from d.c. and nyc20:11
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th1aAiste:  Tomorrow is good.  What time?20:58
Aisteum... when do you usually get up and start working?20:59
th1aWe can do it the same time as the meeting today.21:00
Aistewhich is what LT time?21:01
th1a_I mean, 1330 UTC.21:01
Aisteok, works for me21:02
Aistedo you have skype?21:02
AisteI'll skype you tomorrow then21:03
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