IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2006-03-10

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pcardunesrichter: you wouldn't happen to actually be up this late would you?06:06
th1apcardune:  I'm up, but probably less useful to you.06:07
pcardunedo you know about Zope's authentication system and what the simplest possible way to authenticate users for an application is?06:07
th1aI was right, I'm not useful.06:09
pcarduneI was hoping for a fluke myself06:09
pcarduneth1a: what is the deal with the dashboard package?06:54
th1aDashboard package?06:54
th1aWell, I didn't know it would be getting its own package already.06:55
th1aBasically, we need a page that has a person's pending workflow items and other current events.06:56
pcardunewell, there isn't much in there, I was just wondering what your plans were for it06:56
th1aInstead of just a calendar when you log in.06:56
pcardunethat sounds like a really great thing to have06:57
th1aOK, I'm going to bed.06:58
th1aGood night.06:58
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povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5795:11:01
povbot/svn/commits: schooltool depends on optionstorage. wow, this build tarball <-> fix dependencies cycle is getting old fast, maybe there is a better way.11:01
povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5796:11:36
povbot/svn/commits: Allow optionstorage into the minimal tarball.11:36
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srichterth1a: I put the dashboard package there a while ago to check out the feasibility of using viewlets to accomplish it13:44
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th1asrichter.  I see.15:11
th1asrichter:  Why do we need to cache commendations?15:12
srichtercache commenfations?15:20
tiredbonesth1a, I was just reading Martijn latest email, when realize I did not understand some terms. Terms like,15:22
tiredbonessection temporal and group. Do you have these deffinition some place?15:23
tiredbonescorrection, definition15:25
srichterThere is a glossary, but it seems broken15:25
th1aJust noticed that myself.15:25
srichtercourse - example: Algebra 115:26
srichtersection - A specific meeting of the course: Algebra 1 - Section 1 (meets every day at 8:00)15:26
srichtergroup - A group of people15:26
srichterthe argument is that sections change every year (maybe multiple times), while courses and groups are fairly static15:27
tiredbonesanother way of looking at section is a class room and students change the make-up of the class room every school year.15:30
tiredbonesHow do you define temporal?15:33
th1aRelating to time.15:33
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tiredbonesDoes it mean a span of time?15:34
th1aGroups change but don't keep their history or have strict processes about changing.15:34
srichterit just fluctuates/changes over time15:34
tiredbonesth1a, could you explain what you mean by, "groups change but don't keep their history".15:38
th1aRight now, in SchoolTool I can create a group, add people to it, delete it, and then it is like the whole thing never happened.15:38
th1aSections are created and go through a life cycle and then become inactive.15:39
th1aBut they hang around basically forever.15:39
th1aOr at the beginning of a new basketball season, I just remove the old members from the group and add new ones in.15:40
th1aI don't need to do "Basketball Team 2006."15:40
th1aI just have "Basketball Team."15:40
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tiredbonesDo you expect to have the link to these term today?15:41
th1atiredbones:  I really don't know how long it might take to figure out what is wrong with Plone.15:42
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th1asrichter: I'm trying to see if I can strip the commendations package down even more for a screencast and in we have a "cacheCommendations" function.  I don't remember why.15:49
th1aIt is an event subscriber.15:51
srichteroh, I know why15:52
srichterwe want an efficient way of getting to all commendations15:52
srichtercaching them in a school-wide place is a poor-man's catalog/index :-)15:53
th1aSo it isn't really necessary for the simplest possible demo.15:53
th1aI don't mind it in the version in the repository, but it isn't something I'd want in a screencast.15:54
srichterI think if you can do step 1-3 it will be sufficient16:04
th1aI'm going to see how many lines I can cut this down to.16:04
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th1asrichter:  What do we get for using widgets in commendation_add?  Is there a simpler way to do this?16:56
srichterI am just overriding some of the default form template16:57
srichteroh I know why16:57
srichterbecause we cannot have a typical add form16:57
srichtersince we decided against a ++namespace++16:58
faassensrichter: question..17:10
faassenI find this pattern in schooltool that's quite nice.17:10
faassenand that looks like I'll need quite a bit more for demographics17:10
faassenit's like this:17:10
faassenclass Foo(Persistent, Contained):17:10
faassen    implements(interfaces.IFoo)17:10
faassendef getFoo(context):17:10
faassen    annotations = IAnnotations(context)17:10
faassen    try:17:10
faassen        return annotations[FOO_KEY]17:10
faassen    except KeyError:17:10
faassen        foo = Foo()17:10
faassen        annotations[FOO_KEY] = foo17:10
faassen        # to please security...17:10
faassen            foo, context, 'foo')17:10
faassen        return name_info17:10
faassen# Convention to make adapter introspectable17:11
faassengetFoo.factory = Foo17:11
faasseni.e. we have a way to use a clean Foo as the annotations by hooking them up with adapters.17:11
faassenbut this looks like something that could be actually a zcml directive.17:11
faassenwhat's the bit for?17:11
faassenis the motivation to make security work, or something else, like traversing?17:11
srichteryou have to locate the persistent object17:11
faassenyes, but why in this particular case?17:12
faassenplease the security system of Zope 3?17:12
srichterbasically, if it does nto have a parent, security cannot work17:12
faassenthat's what I thought, just wanted to confirm it.17:12
faassenit's not used to traverse to or something like that.17:12
faassenjust security pleasing.17:12
faassenI noticed I had to resort to stuff like that throughout the document library too.17:12
srichterthe name is for traversing pleasure *sometimes*17:12
faassenit's due to the basically acquisition based z3 security17:12
faassenanyway, this would make a good zcml statement, so I don't repeat my code.17:12
srichteryes, I agree17:13
faassen<zope:annotation for="IBar" factory="something.Foo" />17:13
faassenlooks like it'd dot he trick.17:13
srichterOhilipp would beat you now, but I agree :-)17:13
srichterI think for now we could put this in a schooltool namespoace17:13
faassenwell, Philipp can make me want to repeat myself 10 lines all over the map all he likes. :)17:13
srichterSchoolTool has been reluctant of defining new directives17:14
faassenanyway, I can make it a new directive, probably won't get to it today.17:14
srichterbut for no particular reason17:14
faassenit's just I wanted to make sure I understood everything before I proposed it to z3-dev.17:14
srichterI think a lot of the School customization will warrant new directives anyways17:14
faassenhm, I am not sure I see that yet but I may eventually.17:14
srichterwell, it is one way of doing high-level customization17:16
srichterfor example: <schooltool:demographics schema="stives.interfaces.IStIvesDemographics" />17:16
faassenyeah, perhaps.17:17
srichterI have not thought hard about it17:17
faassenyou'd almost want a kind of skin concept on the code layer actually.17:17
srichterright, I agree17:17
faassenand this also begs local customization.17:17
faassenlike, if I have a single schooltool that's hosting both StIves and HTH17:17
faassenI'd like to be able to run both at the same time.17:17
srichterI think that the new CA work Jim is doing will help us out big time17:17
faassenyeah, that'd be cool.17:18
faassenanyway, mail to z3 dev sent on this.17:18
srichterthen you can define multiple site configurations via ZCML and just say which one you want to have for your local site17:18
srichterI'll respond17:18
faassenon the annotations bit, that is.17:19
faassenyeah, the site config with ZCML sounds good.17:19
faassenthat's something I also longed for during documentlibrary development.17:19
faassenI already cracked my skull over that one dreadful sprint before EuroPython 2003.17:19
faassenwhen Jim suggested (far away in the US :)..that I implement this simple thing, a local role. :)17:20
faasseni.e. a way to register local roles using the system as it was then.17:20
faassenand I got very grumpy and Jim said stop whining. :)17:20
srichterhe he17:20
srichterI actually remember this IRC chat17:20
faassenI think that almost deserves one of those famous "Martijn is right" posts by Jim. :)17:20
srichterwell, has become much easier since then to do local components17:21
faassenthanks to your work, and now Jim's.17:21
faassenI was thinking along the lines of simpler ways to override things, but Jim put the requirement bar really high at the time with registration stacks and all.17:22
srichterI'll need to bug Jim to see when he will get the new CA stuff done, so I can write a proposal for the ZCML stuff17:22
srichterI never understood the old way really except for a few days when I was ripping it out17:22
* faassen grins.17:22
faassenI dug around the code going through 50 different bits for days.17:23
faassenthe PyPy sprint was going on in the next room and that'd have been significantly easier. :)17:23
srichterI doubt that! :-)17:24
faassenreally! :)17:24
srichterhe he17:25
srichterOT: did you get a chance to chat with Jim?17:25
faassensrichter: no, I mailed him proposing it the day before yesterday I tihnk, but he didn't mail me back17:26
faassenI hope that doesn't mean he's seriously mad at me. :)17:26
srichterhe has a pretty thick skin and will get over it, if he is :-)17:27
faassensure. :)17:29
* jinty just figures out that c =+ 1 doesn't mean c += 1 the hard way17:57
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tiredbonessrichter, I'm going to pose my question on this irc that relates to what I asked on z3-dev. I think my error has to do with i18n. Specifically with my configure.zcml that is located in my browser directory. I looked at the one you have in your book on page 105 and I don't see where you add i18n stuff. I get the warnings when i start zope and it point to my configure.zcml. Is there something different since you wrote your book?19:03
srichterwell, my browser/configure.zcml is linked from configure.zcml19:04
srichterthe <configure> element must specify i18n_domain for the warnings to go away19:05
tiredboneshows the link established?19:06
srichter<include =".browser" />19:06
tiredbonesI'm missing it! I looked at both configure.zcml and I don't see <include =".browser" />.19:09
srichtersee second to last line19:12
srichteralso note the i18n_domain attribute in the <configure> element19:13
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tiredbonesdid freenode go down?20:28
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srichternot on me20:42
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