| srichter | maybe we could work with them more together | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| srichter | th1a: this might be an action item for you; see how willing Nuxeo is willing to collaborate | 00:00 |
| th1a | srichter: I think I discussed this with them at some point in the past. | 00:03 |
| th1a | I get the various Zope players confused sometimes. | 00:03 |
| th1a | If we really wanted to push collaboration on calendaring we'd have to change the license, I think. | 00:04 |
| th1a | Which Mark isn't interested in doing. | 00:04 |
| srichter | right | 00:28 |
| srichter | GPL is nto very interesting to companies | 00:28 |
| srichter | Jim even says now GPL is not Free Software | 00:29 |
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| jelkner | jinty: morning, jinty! | 15:39 |
| jinty | morning jeff | 15:43 |
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| jinty | or jelkner;) | 15:43 |
| jelkner | jeff, jelkner, just don't call me late for breakfast ;-) | 15:43 |
| jinty | heh, just trying to get the chat client to make noise | 15:44 |
| jinty | So, on the agenda today: | 15:44 |
| jinty | hmm | 15:44 |
| jelkner | hmm? | 15:44 |
| jinty | cando in debian/dapper | 15:44 |
| jelkner | ok | 15:45 |
| jelkner | and packaging themes, yes? | 15:45 |
| jinty | zpkgtools/nightly tarballs for cando | 15:45 |
| jinty | indeed and the themes | 15:45 |
| jelkner | let's start now, so we can finish 15 minutes early | 15:46 |
| jelkner | and i can get breakfast ;-) | 15:46 |
| jinty | I am afraid I am quite un-prepared for the themes, only downloaded edubuntu-artwork just now | 15:46 |
| jelkner | well, we could at least talk about what needs to be done | 15:47 |
| jinty | ok, first things first, how much knowledge do you have about packaging? | 15:47 |
| jelkner | none | 15:47 |
| jinty | hmm, ok, then, to the beginning | 15:48 |
| jinty | before version control and other complicated fancy things, developers used a simple cycle to work on packages | 15:49 |
| jinty | download, make changes, then upload | 15:49 |
| jinty | so lets download some things | 15:49 |
| jelkner | ok | 15:50 |
| jinty | to set up put the line deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy main universe restricted multiverse | 15:50 |
| jinty | into /etc/apt/sources.list | 15:50 |
| jelkner | hold on | 15:51 |
| jinty | that will allow you to easily download the source packages | 15:51 |
| jinty | ok | 15:52 |
| jelkner | i'm going to clean up my apt/sources.list a bit | 15:52 |
| jelkner | does the order matter at all? | 15:53 |
| jinty | yes | 15:53 |
| jelkner | i had breezy universe main restricted multiverse | 15:54 |
| jelkner | what is the difference? | 15:54 |
| jinty | if two packages have the same name and version, the first line will be chosen | 15:54 |
| jelkner | ahh | 15:54 |
| jinty | note the 'deb-src' in the beginning | 15:54 |
| jelkner | so main should come before universe if you want the core package | 15:54 |
| jelkner | to be favored | 15:55 |
| jelkner | but it is extremely unlikely that you would have someing in both main and universe, yes? | 15:55 |
| jinty | er no, order doesn't matter in the distributions | 15:55 |
| jelkner | ok, stratch that | 15:55 |
| jinty | because there should be no packages that are in main and universe at the same time | 15:56 |
| jelkner | what is restricted? | 15:56 |
| jinty | restricted is where all the non-freeish stuff ubuntu distributes is | 15:57 |
| jelkner | i thought that was multiverse | 15:57 |
| jinty | such as binary kernel modules | 15:57 |
| jelkner | and now i see something new, breezy-backports | 15:57 |
| jelkner | probably don't need that, right? | 15:58 |
| jinty | http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components/document_view | 15:58 |
| jinty | no | 15:58 |
| jelkner | hold on... | 15:58 |
| jelkner | bookmarked for later review, cool! | 15:59 |
| jelkner | what next? | 16:01 |
| jinty | have you got the deb-src line in sources.list? | 16:01 |
| jelkner | yes, and i updated | 16:02 |
| jinty | cool then make a directory for your sources | 16:02 |
| jinty | I normally use ~/src | 16:02 |
| jinty | then $ cd ~/src | 16:02 |
| jelkner | done | 16:03 |
| jinty | $ apt-get source ubuntu-artwork | 16:03 |
| jinty | $ apt-get source edubuntu-artwork | 16:03 |
| jelkner | as me or as root? | 16:03 |
| jinty | as you | 16:03 |
| jinty | it just downloads and unpacks the source of the packages | 16:04 |
| jelkner | it is downloading now... | 16:04 |
| jinty | cool, did you makange to get pbuilder set up? | 16:04 |
| jelkner | no, we need to go through that again, i'm afraid | 16:04 |
| jelkner | hold on, there is an error | 16:05 |
| jinty | I think it takes too much time, lets do it a quicker and nastier way | 16:05 |
| jinty | error? | 16:05 |
| jelkner | Unpack command 'dpkg-source -x uibuntu-artwork_0.2.77-1.dsc' failed. | 16:06 |
| jelkner | E: Child process failed | 16:06 |
| jinty | wow | 16:06 |
| jinty | and before that? | 16:06 |
| jelkner | first is got dsc tar and diff | 16:07 |
| jelkner | then it said "Fetched 6128bB in 40s | 16:07 |
| jelkner | then | 16:07 |
| jelkner | sh: dpkg-source: command not found | 16:07 |
| jinty | ah | 16:07 |
| jinty | moment | 16:08 |
| jinty | apt-get install dpkg-dev | 16:08 |
| jinty | that will install the dpkg development tools | 16:09 |
| jelkner | hmm, gcc is a recommended package | 16:09 |
| jelkner | so i guess it's not installed? | 16:09 |
| jelkner | should i install it? | 16:10 |
| jinty | rather go apt-get install build-essential | 16:10 |
| jelkner | ok | 16:10 |
| jelkner | meta packages are so cool! | 16:10 |
| jinty | build-essential is a metapackage of all the things commonly used in building packages | 16:10 |
| jelkner | done | 16:11 |
| jinty | you've got dpkg-dev as well? | 16:11 |
| jelkner | yes | 16:11 |
| jinty | ok then apt-get source ubuntu-artwork again | 16:11 |
| jelkner | done | 16:12 |
| jelkner | it worked this time ;-) | 16:12 |
| jinty | :) | 16:12 |
| jinty | and edubuntu-artwork as well | 16:12 |
| jelkner | doing it now.. | 16:12 |
| jelkner | done | 16:12 |
| jinty | ok, after that you can cd into the package source | 16:13 |
| jinty | cd ubuntu-artwork*/debian | 16:13 |
| jelkner | can i ask a few questions first? | 16:13 |
| jinty | sure | 16:13 |
| jelkner | for each source package i ended up with 3 file/directories: | 16:14 |
| jelkner | 1. the package directory | 16:14 |
| jelkner | 2. a .dsc file | 16:14 |
| jelkner | 3. a .tar.gz file | 16:14 |
| jelkner | what are each of these? | 16:15 |
| jinty | ah, perhaps I can find a good explanation on the web | 16:15 |
| jinty | http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-build.en.html | 16:16 |
| jelkner | cool | 16:17 |
| jelkner | homework, yeah! ;-) | 16:17 |
| jinty | it is quite important that the orig.tar.gz is exactly the same as the upstream version | 16:17 |
| jinty | i.e. even the md5sum should be the same | 16:18 |
| jelkner | ahh, there are two tar files, .diff.gz and original.tar.gz | 16:19 |
| jinty | because one of the functions of ubuntu is to ensure that the software installed on your machine is kosher | 16:19 |
| jelkner | note that edubuntu-artwork doesn't have that | 16:19 |
| jinty | yeah, there are 2 types of packages: native and non-native | 16:19 |
| jelkner | there is no original or diff with edubuntu-artwork | 16:20 |
| jelkner | so edubuntu-artwork is non-native? | 16:20 |
| jinty | no, native;) | 16:20 |
| jelkner | i'm confused | 16:21 |
| jinty | native: a package purpose built for debian/ubuntu that is never going to be usefull on let's say redhat | 16:21 |
| jelkner | ahh | 16:21 |
| jinty | non-native: A package whose source could be useful on non debian/ubuntu distros | 16:21 |
| jelkner | so ubuntu-artwork is non-native, cause it's the more generic gnome one? | 16:22 |
| jinty | 99% of packages are non-native | 16:22 |
| jinty | no, I think it's a small bug that it is native | 16:22 |
| jinty | s/non-native/ | 16:22 |
| jelkner | so packages that have the original and diff files are which? | 16:23 |
| jinty | non-native, the orig.tar.gz is the original source from upstream | 16:23 |
| jinty | diff is the debian specific changes | 16:24 |
| jelkner | and since edubuntu-artwork did not have these, you knew it was native | 16:24 |
| jinty | yeah, also the version number should be of the form 0.1 and not 0.1-1 | 16:24 |
| jelkner | no need for upstream and changes, since it is specific to the edubuntu platform and not useful elsewhere | 16:24 |
| jinty | exactly | 16:25 |
| jelkner | ok, thanks | 16:25 |
| jelkner | what next? | 16:25 |
| jelkner | we've got 20 minutes... | 16:25 |
| jinty | hmm, I think to add your theme, you should add it to the edubuntu-artwork package | 16:26 |
| jelkner | yes | 16:26 |
| jelkner | but i want to add several themes | 16:26 |
| jelkner | so i need to understand what a theme is | 16:26 |
| jelkner | the current edubuntu theme is broken, really | 16:26 |
| jinty | or package the theme separately and have edubunu-artwork depend on it | 16:27 |
| jinty | I would ask ogra which is the best option | 16:27 |
| jelkner | when you select System-Preferences-Theme the "edubuntu" theme is listed at the top as "Custom" | 16:27 |
| jelkner | if you select another theme, the next time you go back to that menu, the "Custom" theme is gone | 16:28 |
| jelkner | so you can't get it back | 16:28 |
| jinty | ouch | 16:28 |
| jinty | sounds like it shoudn't be a custom theme | 16:28 |
| jelkner | i'm thinking we build a new package from scratch that simply adds a named theme to the menu | 16:29 |
| * jinty doesn't really know that much about gnome themes | 16:29 | |
| jelkner | how can we learn | 16:29 |
| jelkner | ? | 16:29 |
| jinty | I suggest we also download the source of gnome-themes to see how they do it | 16:29 |
| jelkner | cool | 16:30 |
| jinty | we could use that package as the basis for ours | 16:30 |
| jelkner | btw. one of the things i'm hoping here is that since themes are really just artwork and not code | 16:30 |
| jelkner | it will be a great way to learn about packaging without the confusion of also worrying about software development at the same time | 16:31 |
| jelkner | i hope | 16:31 |
| jinty | I thnk packaging python modules is easier;) | 16:31 |
| jelkner | so do i apt-get source gnome-themes? | 16:31 |
| jinty | yep | 16:31 |
| jelkner | i want to package python, too | 16:31 |
| jelkner | in the same src directory? | 16:32 |
| jelkner | when will that be too crowded? | 16:32 |
| jinty | also apt-get source python-tz | 16:32 |
| jelkner | all in ~/src ? | 16:32 |
| jinty | soon;) | 16:32 |
| jelkner | is it easy enough to move these files to another directory later? | 16:33 |
| jelkner | or is there meta data with the location somewhere (ala .cvs )? | 16:34 |
| jinty | no, no meta data | 16:34 |
| * jelkner finished downloading python-tz | 16:34 | |
| jelkner | cool | 16:34 |
| jelkner | ok, now what? | 16:35 |
| jinty | ok, lets go inside and have a look | 16:35 |
| jinty | cd python-tz*/debian | 16:35 |
| jelkner | not gnome-themes? | 16:35 |
| jinty | er, it's difficult | 16:35 |
| jelkner | ok, next week then | 16:35 |
| jinty | gnome-themes uses something called cdbs | 16:36 |
| * jelkner moves into python-tz-200tm | 16:36 | |
| jinty | which obscures the packaging machinery too much | 16:36 |
| jinty | so you can't see what is happening | 16:36 |
| jelkner | so there goes my hope :-( | 16:36 |
| jelkner | this is still an important problem to solve, however | 16:36 |
| jinty | python-tz is only an example | 16:37 |
| jelkner | ok, shoot | 16:37 |
| jelkner | i see CHANGES.txt | 16:37 |
| jelkner | debian (dir) | 16:37 |
| jelkner | LICENSE.,txt | 16:37 |
| jelkner | PKG_INFO | 16:37 |
| jelkner | pytz | 16:38 |
| jinty | ok, | 16:38 |
| jelkner | (dir again) | 16:38 |
| jinty | all the debian packaging stuff is in debian/ | 16:38 |
| jinty | the rest is the original pytz code | 16:38 |
| jinty | + debian specific patches | 16:38 |
| jinty | so cd debian/ | 16:38 |
| jinty | you should see changelog compat control copyright docs rules watch | 16:39 |
| jelkner | yup | 16:39 |
| jinty | the really important ones are rules, changelog and control | 16:39 |
| jinty | so ${text editor} control | 16:39 |
| jelkner | i'm looking | 16:40 |
| jinty | another link, the format of these files is documented here: | 16:40 |
| jinty | http://www.us.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html | 16:41 |
| jelkner | ok, jinty, let's stop here | 16:41 |
| jelkner | i'm a slow learner | 16:41 |
| jelkner | and i already have enough to digest | 16:41 |
| jelkner | can we summarize my homework? | 16:41 |
| jelkner | let me try, and you correct me | 16:42 |
| jinty | Debian-policy: http://www.us.debian.org/doc/debian-policy | 16:42 |
| jinty | ok | 16:42 |
| jelkner | 1. read and understand: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components/document_view | 16:43 |
| jelkner | 2. read http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-build.en.html and have questions for next week | 16:43 |
| jelkner | 3. read http://www.us.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html and have questions for next week | 16:44 |
| jelkner | is that it? | 16:44 |
| jinty | 4. get ogra's advice on the best way to package the theme | 16:44 |
| jelkner | excellent | 16:45 |
| jelkner | will do | 16:45 |
| jelkner | thanks! | 16:45 |
| jelkner | now i'm *really* hungry and want to go eat... ;-) | 16:45 |
| jinty | heh, | 16:45 |
| jelkner | same time next week? | 16:45 |
| jinty | sure, | 16:45 |
| jelkner | anything else? | 16:46 |
| jinty | also would like to speak about the cando stuff | 16:46 |
| jelkner | ok, shoot | 16:46 |
| jelkner | is the package ready with paul's last fix? | 16:46 |
| jinty | I want to open an intent to package (ITP) bug in debian | 16:46 |
| jelkner | cool | 16:46 |
| jinty | yep, already uploaded | 16:46 |
| jelkner | excellent | 16:47 |
| jinty | but for that I need to start publishing the tarballs | 16:47 |
| jelkner | ok | 16:47 |
| jinty | perhaps on the schooltool ftp site | 16:47 |
| jelkner | works for me | 16:47 |
| jelkner | you need to ask tom about that, yes? | 16:47 |
| jinty | yep, but I think th1a will have no problem | 16:47 |
| jelkner | great | 16:48 |
| jelkner | do you need anything from me? | 16:48 |
| jinty | just your agreement;) | 16:48 |
| jelkner | i agree! | 16:48 |
| jelkner | (that was easy ;-) | 16:49 |
| jinty | then till next week;) | 16:49 |
| jelkner | anything else (i can smell those eggs ) | 16:49 |
| jelkner | cool | 16:49 |
| jelkner | until then... | 16:49 |
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| jinty | th1a: If you agree to publishing the cando tarballs on the schooltool ftp site, could you create /home/ftp/pub/cando on the server | 16:52 |
| jinty | set the setgid bit on that directory and make it group release... | 16:54 |
| jinty | or perhaps cando... | 16:55 |
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| th1a | jinty: That's ok with me. Do you need me to do it personally? | 19:20 |
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| jinty | th1a: I don't have the access | 20:24 |
| jinty | so yes | 20:24 |
| th1a | jinty | 20:26 |
| th1a | OK. Set it upu | 20:26 |
| th1a | up. | 20:26 |
| th1a | and did chgrp cando cando/ | 20:26 |
| jinty | cool, I'll get busy filing my ITP's then | 20:27 |
| jinty | aargh, th1a: chmod g+w /home/ftp/pub/cando | 20:52 |
| th1a | sorry. | 20:52 |
| th1a | my bad. | 20:52 |
| jinty | th1a: Just so you know, I made a very minimal release cando release on the schooltool site | 21:02 |
| th1a | On the Plone site? | 21:03 |
| th1a | Or just ftp'ed it? | 21:03 |
| jinty | the plone site, so debian developers cen browse and get the source when they investigate the ITP | 21:04 |
| jinty | also the ftp | 21:04 |
| th1a | OK. Thanks. I'll have a look at it. | 21:04 |
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| jinty | hmm is there a cando-dev mailing list? | 21:10 |
| tvon | yeah, its on sourceforge | 21:20 |
| tiredbones | jinty, what do the initials ITP stand for? | 23:06 |
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