IRC log of #schooltool for Sunday, 2005-10-16

srichtermaybe we could work with them more together00:00
srichterth1a: this might be an action item for you; see how willing Nuxeo is willing to collaborate00:00
th1asrichter:  I think I discussed this with them at some point in the past.00:03
th1aI get the various Zope players confused sometimes.00:03
th1aIf we really wanted to push collaboration on calendaring we'd have to change the license, I think.00:04
th1aWhich Mark isn't interested in doing.00:04
srichterGPL is nto very interesting to companies00:28
srichterJim even says now GPL is not Free Software00:29
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jelknerjinty: morning, jinty!15:39
jintymorning jeff15:43
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jintyor jelkner;)15:43
jelknerjeff, jelkner, just don't call me late for breakfast ;-)15:43
jintyheh, just trying to get the chat client to make noise15:44
jintySo, on the agenda today:15:44
jintycando in debian/dapper15:44
jelknerand packaging themes, yes?15:45
jintyzpkgtools/nightly tarballs for cando15:45
jintyindeed and the themes15:45
jelknerlet's start now, so we can finish 15 minutes early15:46
jelknerand i can get breakfast ;-)15:46
jintyI am afraid I am quite un-prepared for the themes, only downloaded edubuntu-artwork just now15:46
jelknerwell, we could at least talk about what needs to be done15:47
jintyok, first things first, how much knowledge do you have about packaging?15:47
jintyhmm, ok, then, to the beginning15:48
jintybefore version control and other complicated fancy things, developers used a simple cycle to work on packages15:49
jintydownload, make changes, then upload15:49
jintyso lets download some things15:49
jintyto set up put the line deb-src breezy main universe restricted multiverse15:50
jintyinto /etc/apt/sources.list15:50
jelknerhold on15:51
jintythat will allow you to easily download the source packages15:51
jelkneri'm going to clean up my apt/sources.list a bit15:52
jelknerdoes the order matter at all?15:53
jelkneri had breezy universe main restricted multiverse15:54
jelknerwhat is the difference?15:54
jintyif two packages have the same name and version, the first line will be chosen15:54
jintynote the 'deb-src' in the beginning15:54
jelknerso main should come before universe if you want the core package15:54
jelknerto be favored15:55
jelknerbut it is extremely unlikely that you would have someing in both main and universe, yes?15:55
jintyer no, order doesn't matter in the distributions15:55
jelknerok, stratch that15:55
jintybecause there should be no packages that are in main and universe at the same time15:56
jelknerwhat is restricted?15:56
jintyrestricted is where all the non-freeish stuff ubuntu distributes is15:57
jelkneri thought that was multiverse15:57
jintysuch as binary kernel modules15:57
jelknerand now i see something new, breezy-backports15:57
jelknerprobably don't need that, right?15:58
jelknerhold on...15:58
jelknerbookmarked for later review, cool!15:59
jelknerwhat next?16:01
jintyhave you got the deb-src line in sources.list?16:01
jelkneryes, and i updated16:02
jintycool then make a directory for your sources16:02
jintyI normally use ~/src16:02
jintythen $ cd ~/src16:02
jinty$ apt-get source ubuntu-artwork16:03
jinty$ apt-get source edubuntu-artwork16:03
jelkneras me or as root?16:03
jintyas you16:03
jintyit just downloads and unpacks the source of the packages16:04
jelknerit is downloading now...16:04
jintycool, did you makange to get pbuilder set up?16:04
jelknerno, we need to go through that again, i'm afraid16:04
jelknerhold on, there is an error16:05
jintyI think it takes too much time, lets do it a quicker and nastier way16:05
jelknerUnpack command 'dpkg-source -x uibuntu-artwork_0.2.77-1.dsc' failed.16:06
jelknerE: Child process failed16:06
jintyand before that?16:06
jelknerfirst is got dsc tar and diff16:07
jelknerthen it said "Fetched 6128bB in 40s16:07
jelknersh: dpkg-source: command not found16:07
jintyapt-get install dpkg-dev16:08
jintythat will install the dpkg development tools16:09
jelknerhmm, gcc is a recommended package16:09
jelknerso i guess it's not installed?16:09
jelknershould i install it?16:10
jintyrather go apt-get install build-essential16:10
jelknermeta packages are so cool!16:10
jintybuild-essential is a metapackage of all the things commonly used in building packages16:10
jintyyou've got dpkg-dev as well?16:11
jintyok then apt-get source ubuntu-artwork again16:11
jelknerit worked this time ;-)16:12
jintyand edubuntu-artwork as well16:12
jelknerdoing it now..16:12
jintyok, after that you can cd into the package source16:13
jintycd ubuntu-artwork*/debian16:13
jelknercan i ask a few questions first?16:13
jelknerfor each source package i ended up with 3 file/directories:16:14
jelkner1. the package directory16:14
jelkner2. a .dsc file16:14
jelkner3. a .tar.gz file16:14
jelknerwhat are each of these?16:15
jintyah, perhaps I can find a good explanation on the web16:15
jelknerhomework, yeah! ;-)16:17
jintyit is quite important that the orig.tar.gz is exactly the same as the upstream version16:17
jintyi.e. even the md5sum should be the same16:18
jelknerahh, there are two tar files, .diff.gz and original.tar.gz16:19
jintybecause one of the functions of ubuntu is to ensure that the software installed on your machine is kosher16:19
jelknernote that edubuntu-artwork doesn't have that16:19
jintyyeah, there are 2 types of packages: native and non-native16:19
jelknerthere is no original or diff with edubuntu-artwork16:20
jelknerso edubuntu-artwork is non-native?16:20
jintyno, native;)16:20
jelkneri'm confused16:21
jintynative: a package purpose built for debian/ubuntu that is never going to be usefull on let's say redhat16:21
jintynon-native: A package whose source could be useful on non debian/ubuntu distros16:21
jelknerso ubuntu-artwork is non-native, cause it's the more generic gnome one?16:22
jinty99% of packages are non-native16:22
jintyno, I think it's a small bug that it is native16:22
jelknerso packages that have the original and diff files are which?16:23
jintynon-native, the orig.tar.gz is the original source from upstream16:23
jintydiff is the debian specific changes16:24
jelknerand since edubuntu-artwork did not have these, you knew it was native16:24
jintyyeah, also the version number should be of the form 0.1 and not 0.1-116:24
jelknerno need for upstream and changes, since it is specific to the edubuntu platform and not useful elsewhere16:24
jelknerok, thanks16:25
jelknerwhat next?16:25
jelknerwe've got 20 minutes...16:25
jintyhmm, I think to add your theme, you should add it to the edubuntu-artwork package16:26
jelknerbut i want to add several themes16:26
jelknerso i need to understand what a theme is16:26
jelknerthe current edubuntu theme is broken, really16:26
jintyor package the theme separately and have edubunu-artwork depend on it16:27
jintyI would ask ogra which is the best option16:27
jelknerwhen you select System-Preferences-Theme the "edubuntu" theme is listed at the top as "Custom"16:27
jelknerif you select another theme, the next time you go back to that menu, the "Custom" theme is gone16:28
jelknerso you can't get it back16:28
jintysounds like it shoudn't be a custom theme16:28
jelkneri'm thinking we build a new package from scratch that simply adds a named theme to the menu16:29
* jinty doesn't really know that much about gnome themes16:29
jelknerhow can we learn16:29
jintyI suggest we also download the source of gnome-themes to see how they do it16:29
jintywe could use that package as the basis for ours16:30
jelknerbtw. one of the things i'm hoping here is that since themes are really just artwork and not code16:30
jelknerit will be a great way to learn about packaging without the confusion of also worrying about software development at the same time16:31
jelkneri hope16:31
jintyI thnk packaging python modules is easier;)16:31
jelknerso do i apt-get source gnome-themes?16:31
jelkneri want to package python, too16:31
jelknerin the same src directory?16:32
jelknerwhen will that be too crowded?16:32
jintyalso apt-get source python-tz16:32
jelknerall in ~/src ?16:32
jelkneris it easy enough to move these files to another directory later?16:33
jelkneror is there meta data with the location somewhere (ala .cvs )?16:34
jintyno, no meta data16:34
* jelkner finished downloading python-tz16:34
jelknerok, now what?16:35
jintyok, lets go inside and have a look16:35
jintycd python-tz*/debian16:35
jelknernot gnome-themes?16:35
jintyer, it's difficult16:35
jelknerok, next week then16:35
jintygnome-themes uses something called cdbs16:36
* jelkner moves into python-tz-200tm16:36
jintywhich obscures the packaging machinery too much16:36
jintyso you can't see what is happening16:36
jelknerso there goes my hope :-(16:36
jelknerthis is still an important problem to solve, however16:36
jintypython-tz is only an example16:37
jelknerok, shoot16:37
jelkneri see CHANGES.txt16:37
jelknerdebian (dir)16:37
jelkner(dir again)16:38
jintyall the debian packaging stuff is in debian/16:38
jintythe rest is the original pytz code16:38
jinty+ debian specific patches16:38
jintyso cd debian/16:38
jintyyou should see changelog  compat  control  copyright  docs  rules  watch16:39
jintythe really important ones are rules, changelog and control16:39
jintyso ${text editor} control16:39
jelkneri'm looking16:40
jintyanother link, the format of these files is documented here:16:40
jelknerok, jinty, let's stop here16:41
jelkneri'm a slow learner16:41
jelknerand i already have enough to digest16:41
jelknercan we summarize my homework?16:41
jelknerlet me try, and you correct me16:42
jelkner1. read and understand:
jelkner2. read and have questions for next week16:43
jelkner3. read and have questions for next week16:44
jelkneris that it?16:44
jinty4. get ogra's advice on the best way to package the theme16:44
jelknerwill do16:45
jelknernow i'm *really* hungry and want to go eat... ;-)16:45
jelknersame time next week?16:45
jelkneranything else?16:46
jintyalso would like to speak about the cando stuff16:46
jelknerok, shoot16:46
jelkneris the package ready with paul's last fix?16:46
jintyI want to open an intent to package (ITP) bug in debian16:46
jintyyep, already uploaded16:46
jintybut for that I need to start publishing the tarballs16:47
jintyperhaps on the schooltool ftp site16:47
jelknerworks for me16:47
jelkneryou need to ask tom about that, yes?16:47
jintyyep, but I think th1a will have no problem16:47
jelknerdo you need anything from me?16:48
jintyjust your agreement;)16:48
jelkneri agree!16:48
jelkner(that was easy ;-)16:49
jintythen till next week;)16:49
jelkneranything else (i can smell those eggs )16:49
jelkneruntil then...16:49
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jintyth1a: If you agree to publishing the cando tarballs on the schooltool ftp site, could you create /home/ftp/pub/cando on the server16:52
jintyset the setgid bit on that directory and make it group release...16:54
jintyor perhaps cando...16:55
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th1ajinty:  That's ok with me.  Do you need me to do it personally?19:20
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jintyth1a: I don't have the access20:24
jintyso yes20:24
th1aOK.  Set it upu20:26
th1aand did chgrp cando cando/20:26
jintycool, I'll get busy filing my ITP's then20:27
jintyaargh, th1a: chmod g+w /home/ftp/pub/cando20:52
th1amy bad.20:52
jintyth1a: Just so you know, I made a very minimal release cando release on the schooltool site21:02
th1aOn the Plone site?21:03
th1aOr just ftp'ed it?21:03
jintythe plone site, so debian developers cen browse and get the source when they investigate the ITP21:04
jintyalso the ftp21:04
th1aOK.  Thanks.  I'll have a look at it.21:04
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jintyhmm is there a cando-dev mailing list?21:10
tvonyeah, its on sourceforge21:20
tiredbonesjinty, what do the initials ITP stand for?23:06
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