IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2005-10-14

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ToothpickIs there going to be an assessment portion to this?  I currently use Thinkwave educator but would like a linux alternative.02:04
ToothpickI am still reading ;)02:06
ToothpickHave you tried thinkwave educator?02:37
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povbot/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5254:15:45
povbot/svn/commits: The timetable slots redesign ============================15:45
povbot/svn/commits: In essence, now SchooldayTemplates contain sets of slots that are now not bound to periods, and are just assigned to them in chronological order.15:45
povbot/svn/commits: Concrete steps taken:15:45
povbot/svn/commits: * renamed SchooldayPeriod to SchooldaySlot * removed the period title attribute from SchooldaySlot * left the id="" attribute as optional in the timetable schema REST RNG schema * fix lots of tests * fix the slots part of the advanced timetable schema wizard15:45
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Welshjinty:  did you note Paul's ready for you again???16:38
jintyyeah, busy building right now16:39
Welshyou are the man!!!16:41
Welshas you may have seen in the e-mail, the bug we're fixing is critical16:42
Welshit was effecting the numbers themselves.16:42
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5255:16:44
povbot/svn/commits: Merged bugfix for issue347: pressing Enter in search box removes members.16:44
povbot/svn/commits: Commands used for merging:16:44
povbot/svn/commits: BASE=svn+ssh:// svn merge -r 5135:5136 $BASE/schooltool/course/browser/ \16:44
povbot/svn/commits: src/schooltool/browser/templates/section_instructors.pt16:44
povbot/svn/commits: svn merge -r 5135:5136 $BASE/schooltool/group/browser/ \16:44
povbot/svn/commits: src/schoolbell/app/browser/templates/members.pt16:44
povbot/svn/commits: svn merge -r 5135:5136 $BASE/schooltool/group/browser/ \16:44
povbot/svn/commits: src/schoolbell/app/browser/templates/groups.pt16:44
jintyWelsh: done16:46
Welshcan I apt-get update and upgrade???16:48
Welshhere we go.  Will let you know what happens.16:48
jintythese update are small, so pretty easy to churn out...16:49
jintymgedmin: any objections to a schooltool.i18n module (template extractor)?16:50
jintyanyone else?16:50
mgedminjinty, just a sec...16:51
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povbot/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5256:17:27
povbot/svn/commits: Revert revision 4356.  Readd the rotating schedule with different slots on different weekdays.  All tests pass, but a little fix is still needed.17:27
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erchacheim fighting with mediawiki software.....are toooooo baaaaaad documented!17:42
erchachebad no....nothing!17:42
erchacheand programmers pass of me17:42
th1aerchache:  We're Python programmers.17:43
erchachei know :-(17:43
erchachei dont like programming....i hate on spain....programmers are the levinsky of profession17:44
erchachebad pay....bad contract....bad recognized17:44
erchacheand much hard work17:44
povbot/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5257:17:44
povbot/svn/commits: Restored the graphs to the state of r4356, to go along with merge in r5256.17:44
povbot/svn/commits: cd src/schooltool/app/browser/ftests svn merge -r 4358:4357 svn+ssh://
erchachethe bitchs17:45
erchachemore explicit17:45
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Welshjinty:  the fixes worked; great job.18:00
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povbot/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5258:18:07
povbot/svn/commits: FHS timetable model now fully supported by the ttwizard.  th1a: want to give it a try?18:07
th1aalga:  Sure.18:08
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5259:18:16
povbot/svn/commits: Backported fix for issue368: deleting group blows away calendar access.  Revisions 5039, 5040 were merged manually.18:16
th1aalga:  So far, so good.18:28
th1aalga:  Eureka!18:31
th1aalga:  It appears to work.  Great job.18:31
th1aLet me also say that determining whether or not something actually works is much easier now that I've got a full load of test data.18:35
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algaTrue, true.  Sample data is very useful.18:43
algaBut perhaps too slow for most uses.18:44
th1aToo slow to generate?18:44
algaIt was up to 2.5 minutes on my machine before we started to optimize the generation18:44
alganow it's still well over a minute18:45
mgedminand it eats a lot of RAM18:46
mgedmin200 megs or so18:46
th1aIt isn't exactly something that was to be done frequently.18:46
mgedminwhile the Data.fs itself is only 50 megs18:46
th1aThat's not bad.18:46
th1aDid you guys read the email I sent last night about focusing on a small number of test schools for next year?18:48
* mgedmin hasn't yet18:49
th1aIt should make you happy, I think.18:49
ignaswell ...18:52
th1aWell, good news/bad news.18:52
th1aGood news, no handwavey meta-demographics system.18:52
th1aBad news, several custom versions to keep in sync.18:52
th1aBut that should inspire you to figure out how to make a more general system.18:53
th1aOnce we understand the problem better.18:53
ignasbad news - we are ignoring our users and currently sticking to the greater plan18:53
th1aOn calendaring?18:53
ignastimezones, resources booking, timetabling in general ...18:54
th1aWell, making the SIS functionality simpler also will give us more time to fix those things.18:54
ignasSIS ?18:55
th1aBut if we don't have a student information system (SIS) by spring, we might as well fold up the whole tent and go home.18:55
th1aThis is not, ultimately, a calendaring project.18:55
th1aI am confident that we'll have a rock solid calendar server next fall.18:57
th1aYou have to remember we're on a kind of strict annual schedule.18:57
ignasI see18:58
th1aAny significant deployment of SchoolTool calendar isn't really going to happen until next summer anyhow.18:58
th1aThe people who have deployed it now knew what they were getting into.18:59
ignaswho would deploy a SIS without functioning calendaring?18:59
th1apips is a special case.18:59
th1aBut he's only one person.18:59
th1aCalendaring isn't generally considered an SIS function at all.18:59
th1aI mean, the SIS has to understand the timetable.18:59
th1aBut SIS's aren't full featured calendar servers.19:00
th1aThat's why we made SchoolTool Calendar.  It is functionality that few schools have.19:00
algath1a: but you agree that we have to keep fixing problems with timetables, booking, and timezones in the background?19:02
th1aYes.  Again, that's also part of the reason to simplify the requirements.19:02
algaand make bugfix releases to cater to our early adopters?19:02
ignasso at the moment we have a core that is not usable by anyone - it is not a SIS, it is not a calendaring server :/ and we spent a lot of time geting here ...19:03
th1aWe have a fairly ambitious calendar server/resource scheduler which doesn't meet all of tis goals but is being used as a straightforward calendar server.19:04
th1aGoing forward, I need you guys to indicate to me what the most important fixes to the current application are.19:05
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th1aOr to put it another way, we'll need to estimate the amount of time needed to do the first iteration of attendance, subtract that from the number of POV developer hours available to SchoolTool, and the remainder is can be used to do more calendaring fixes.19:07
th1aNumber of POV hours between now and Christmas.19:08
th1aAnd you guys can tell me what needs to be fixed.  You have a much better handle on that at this point.19:09
ignasi guess we'll create a text document describing current issues with calendaring/reosurces/timetables19:09
ignasand then maybe we should give our users some way to tell us which issues they deem more important19:11
ignasth1a, what do you think about doing a release of our TRUNK some time this or next year19:12
ignasthat would reduce the time needed for backports19:12
th1aWell, yes, we do plan on releasing the TRUNK eventually ;-)19:12
th1aIt is not an academic exercise.19:12
ignaswhat i mean - release trunk before our spring release (the one we will have full SIS functionality)19:13
th1aIf we're going to continue to fix calendaring, then that would be a good idea.19:14
th1aI wasn't planning on doing a lot of backporting forever.19:14
th1aSo that could potentially happen as early as Christmas.19:14
ignasoh, and what should be the place of publishing discussions like this so people who are not using IRC would know what is going on, and maybe even comment on matters ?19:15
th1aI'm going to be writing some emails.19:16
erchachehehehehe i can convert to utf-8 mediawiki software....without fails....19:16
jintyth1a: we can make releases, but no packages until the current zope trunk is released19:16
erchachei can believe it!19:16
th1ajinty:  OK, OK.19:17
jintyyeah, I know I sound like a broken record;)19:18
th1aignas:  Also, it would be great if you could write up your suggestions as enhancement proposals on the website ;-)19:18
ignasi'll write them up in a simple text file first, then when the list will be formalized enough - yes of course19:19
th1aOK.  Fair enough.19:20
th1ajinty:  Clearly, I require a broken record on some issues.19:21
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5260:20:04
povbot/svn/commits: Relationship events now include extra_info.20:04
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5261:20:07
povbot/svn/commits: Relationship events now include extra_info.20:07
povbot/svn/commits: Merged from trunk, as this is a prerequisite for fixing issue 367 (duplicate timetable events in overlays):20:07
povbot/svn/commits: svn merge -r 5259:5260 \20:07
povbot/svn/commits: svn+ssh:// \ src/schoolbell/relationship/20:07
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jelknerth1a: tom, you here?20:24
th1aI am.20:24
jelknerdo you have a few minutes?20:24
th1aDid you figure out how to register yourself?20:24
th1aI do.20:25
th1aDo you want to call me?20:25
jelknerbut we could just chat here20:25
jelknernever mind, here is fine20:25
jelkneri wanted to discuss this whole schooltool commercial support thing20:25
jelknerother folks may have thoughts20:26
jelkneri really want to move toward commercial support for cando20:26
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th1aWell, I suppose the good think about commercial support is that you're paying people to do it.20:27
jelknerit is the next step in getting folks here in arlington (and in virginia more broadly) to accept free software as legitimate20:27
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th1aI'm not sure that you can have commercial support without commercial development though.20:27
jelkneri've been on a crusand to explain that free software doesn't mean no cost20:28
jelknerour school system spends millions of dollars on crap software that doesn't meet our needs20:28
jelkner(any way, you know all that...)20:28
povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5262:20:28
povbot/svn/commits: Changes in batching tests:20:29
povbot/svn/commits: - Added functional test.  - Corrected batching template,20:29
jelkneri agree, so what i'm talking about is commercial development20:29
povbot/svn/commits: relative links changed into absolute links. This can be considered as workaround, becouse testbrowser incorrectly interprets links of a form href="?whatever".20:29
povbot/svn/commits: - Removed doctests from README.TXT20:29
* mgedmin drops a url:
jelknerand commercial support20:29
th1aOK.  So you're also kind of talking about CanDo 3.0.20:29
jelknerCanDo 200620:29
jelknerwhat i'm hoping for is this, after a year of using cando 2005, folks around the state (and beyond) will be clamoring for more20:30
jelknerthis already seems to be happening, so it is not a stretch to imagine it will work out that way20:31
th1aYou need Zope 3 hackers.20:31
th1aThere is a limited supply.20:31
th1aYou can't have mine.20:31
jelknerfair enough, but there is more...20:32
jelkneri want to grow the number of zope 3 hackers20:32
jelknerand i want my top students to know that they have jobs waiting for them if they learn to hack zope 320:32
jelknerand schooltool in particular20:32
jelknerpaul is a perfect example20:33
jelknerthe way this relationship has been working out has been fantastic20:33
th1aI wonder if you could work something out with Zope Corp.20:33
jelkneri just want to build on it and extend it and formalize it a bit more in the future20:33
jelkneri could talk to zope corp20:34
th1aI have no idea if they're wildly more expensive.20:34
jelknerthey have some advantages here20:35
jelknerthey are a va based company20:35
jelknerwhich plays well politically20:35
th1aThat is what I was thinking.20:35
jelknerbut what we are really interested in is schooltool20:35
jelknerso i wanted to start with you20:35
th1aA stronger SchoolTool/Zope Corp. connection would be a great asset.20:36
jelknerlet's talk more about this in montreal20:36
jelknerbut think about it20:36
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5263:20:37
povbot/svn/commits: Fixed (personal calendar shows every event twice) in the release branch.20:37
povbot/svn/commits: The fix is much nicer than the one applied on trunk, I'm considering forward-porting it.20:37
jelkneri want to work out some kind of plan with you that i can pursue...20:37
jelknernow, on another related note20:37
jelkneri have another project idea20:37
jelknerwe have something called STAN20:37
jelknerthe Arlington Substitute Assignment Network20:38
th1aYes, you mentioned that.20:38
jelknerwell, i'd love to try to convince APS (alrington public schools) that STAN could be augmented with a web interface built on schooltool20:39
th1aHm... interfacing the phone part with a web part might be tricky.20:40
jelknerin addition to being a bad personal itch i'd love to scratch (i hate STAN!), it has the following strategic advantages20:41
th1aI have no idea.20:41
jelknerhave no idea about what?20:41
jelkneri'm not asking you how to convince them20:41
jelknerthat would be my job20:41
jelknerwhat i'm asking you to think about is if i were able to convince them, and they wanted to hire someone to do it, who would they call?20:42
th1aNo, I mean, I have no idea how difficult it would be integrating a phone system with a web system.20:42
th1aPhone stuff is magic to me.20:42
jelkneri don't think it would be difficult at all20:42
jelknerit's all just bits, after all ;-)20:42
th1a Yes, but perhaps old, proprietary bits.20:43
jelknernot that old20:43
th1aAnyhow, I think you should use whatever contacts you have at Zope Corp. first, since they're local, and see what they think.20:43
th1aI really have no idea of what they'll say.20:43
th1aBut if something can be worked out, that would be the best case.20:44
jelkneri'll do that, but i have other options as well20:44 is a local company that does zope development20:44
jelkneri know the president, and place my top students as interns there20:45
jelknera few have been hired by them20:45
jelknerbut tom, you are surprising me20:45
jelkneri'm assuming shuttleworth foundation eventually wants to get some business from schooltool, am i wrong?20:46
jelkneror not shuttleworth foundation (a non-profit), but perhaps cannonical20:46
th1aI have no relationship to Canonical.20:46
th1aNobody from Canonical works on SchoolTool or vice versa.20:47 sounds promising.20:47
jelknerok, but schooltool will not be able to fullfill its mission if real institutions don't start using it20:47
jelknerand they won't start using it until they can get commercial support for is20:48
th1aReal institutions use Moodle.20:48
jelknera bit different animal20:48
jelknermoodle is for content20:48
jelknerschooltool is for mission critical data20:49
jelknermoodle replaces blackboard, and even there, it is sometimes hard to get systems to use moodle (which is better) since it is hard to pay for it20:49
jelkneranyway, i will follow up with devis20:50
jelknerbut i'm convinced schooltool is going to have to find a way for support to be available on a broader scale20:51
jelkneror are you just hoping that if you deliver the tool, local support companies will spring up to fill the need?20:51
th1aI guess my point is that I'd rather see local independent companies support SchoolTool than try to build a central service.20:51
jelknerthe beauty of free software is that you can have both20:52
jelkneri agree that local support is great20:52
th1aPlus, I only have resources for writing software.20:52
jelknerbut there is chicken/egg problem here20:52
jelknerwe can't build a local support company until we have a product20:53
jelknerand we can't have a product until we have support20:53
jelkneryou may argue with the second part20:53
jelknerbut if i've learned anything from the cando experience, it is that XP works20:53
th1aWell, you have CanDo, and a potential market for CanDo.20:53
jelknerand the most critical aspect here was the on-sight customer20:53
jelknercando does what the career center teachers want it to do20:54
jelknersince they were part of the development process20:54
jelknerthe same needs to happen for the rest of schooltool20:55
jelknerit will be great to the degree that real users are involved in developing the specifications for it20:55
jelknerwe have an opportunity to turn ACC (arlington career center) teachers into users of other parts of schooltoool20:56
th1aOK, that's a different question.20:56
jelkneroops, i'm late!20:57
jelknergotta run...20:57
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tavhey sweet people21:11
tavhow do i get hold of schoolbell svn checkout ?21:12
tavsrc/schoolbell seems to be "deprecated"21:12
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th1aHi tav.21:12
th1aHere's the deal.21:12
* tav waves to tom21:12
th1aYou can check out the last SchoolBell branch.21:13
th1aFuture SchoolBell releases will be generated from the SchoolTool trunk.21:13
mgedminWhy oh why can't buildbot announce failed builds on IRC?21:14
th1aUsing some zpkging voodoo to be named later.21:14
* mgedmin sighs21:14
th1atav:  What specifically are you interested in doing?21:14
tavso, schooltool trunk is effectively schoolbell trunk21:15
th1aMakes things much more rational for us going forward.21:17
tavmakes sense21:20
th1amgedmin:  Do you wan to elaborate on the relevance of the OpenSolaris article?21:29
mgedminum, no ;)21:32
mgedminjust some ideas about building a successful community21:33
* mgedmin dreams about random users sending patches to fix bugs in schooltool21:33
th1aWell, that's a different sort of question.21:33
mgedminyay, buildbot is unstuck!21:33
th1aThis is not an application where users are also developers.21:34
th1aAlso, we would get more patches if we'd rewrite SchoolTool in PHP.21:34
* th1a ponders giving mgedmin that task.21:35
th1aIt is not alarming that now that real people are really using our app we're getting:21:37
th1aa) bug reports;21:37
th1ab) requests for functionality we considered but didn't have time for;21:38
th1ac) reports of what amount to requirements bugs (timetables and room reservation).21:40
th1aWe can get more eyeballs on the requirements process to cut down on c), but I think the burden is mostly on me to do a better job.21:41
ignasit indicates a gap between users of the application and developers though. Most of GIMP developers are professional GIMP users, firefox developers know w3c specs of html/css, yet i am afraid i was geting lost in sections/courses and timetabling before I began implementing real data imports ...21:43
ignassame for timezones21:43
th1aignas:  That is what makes this a difficult open source project.21:43
ignasand most of our current/potential users don't even know what is an "svn checkout"21:44
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5264:21:45
povbot/svn/commits: Bring the test runners in the release branch up to date.21:45
th1aIf this project should fail, I think the relative difficulty of Zope 3 development would have to take a big part of the blame.21:47
th1aIt has been a huge roadblock to bringing in outside developers.21:47
th1aDifficulty and current obscurity.21:48
th1aAnd anti-Zope attitudes.21:48
th1aOf course, I've placed my bet that it will all work out ;-)21:49
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5265:21:50
povbot/svn/commits: Fix ftests that were broken in rev 5255.21:50
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5266:21:54
povbot/svn/commits: Backported fix for issue 379: PDF views show event times in UTC rather than the timezone that was selected21:54
srichterdo I smell a depression here?21:58
th1aI knew you would chime in eventually, srichter.21:59
srichterI am not crippled anymore ;-)22:01
srichterfirst of all, let me say that SchoolTool, much like Zope, is a very difficult Open Source project, because of the narrow target audience22:02
th1aThat's a relief.22:02
ignassrichter, would you use schooltool.calendar for your projects that need calendaring ? :)22:03
th1aYour not being crippled, that is.22:03
th1asrichter doesn't need timetables.22:03
ignasdoes not have timetables22:03
th1aignas:  You're right.22:03
srichterignas: I don't know how capable schooltool.calendar is22:05
srichterbut, I think schooltool.relationship looks very interesting22:06
srichterI would consider it definitely for another project22:06
th1aignas:  Would you use schooltool.calendar?22:06
ignasproblem 1 - document ST.calendar and advertise it so at least developers would know they must use it :)22:06
th1aWait, whose job is it to write developer documentation?22:07
ignasth1a, nope, it depends on Zope3 so ST.calendar would be too heavy for a simple project22:07
* jinty is busy bludgening at CalZope at the moment. Main issue: fit in with a Zope2.8 site.22:07
srichterhow heavy does it depend on Zope 3?22:07
ignassrichter, not very i guess, annotations, interfaces22:07
th1aAnd for that matter, whose job is it to evangelize to developers.22:07
srichterso, it has just a few package dependencies, not bad22:08
ignaswe have a website for such things22:08
th1aI've done as much developer evangelism as a non-developer can do.22:08
th1aNot so much on the website,22:08
th1abut on mailing lists, conferences.22:08
srichterI think the key is patience22:08
ignasoh :)22:08
ignasthen i should get some :D22:08
srichteronce SchoolTool is known as an application, people will look at other components too22:09
th1aRealistically, evangelism to Zope 3 developers has to come from other Zope 3 developers, i.e., you guys.22:09
th1aYou are right that we could have more promotion of the library on the website.22:10
ignassrichter, from mine perspective - if it's not packeged - i won't consider it :) i want libraries to save my time not consume it22:10
srichterso promote it22:10
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5267:22:10
povbot/svn/commits: Readded 'Show All'/'Show Less' button to batch navigation macros.  Fixes issue 368 in the release branch.22:10
povbot/svn/commits: Produced by22:10
povbot/svn/commits: svn merge -r 5240:5243 \22:10
povbot/svn/commits: svn+ssh:// \ src/schoolbell/batching/22:10
povbot/svn/commits: svn+ssh:// \ src/schoolbell/app/browser/resources/style.css22:10
mgedminth1a, the README of schooltool.calendar list its dependencies on Z3 libs22:11
th1aOverall, I can't say that pushing the calendaring library is a big priority for me, although I understand why it is important.22:11
mgedminit is not very heavy22:11
th1aI didn't say it was heavy, ignas did.22:11
srichterI am with Tom22:12
srichterpushing any sub-library of schooltool costs resources22:12
th1aPlus there is competition.22:12
mgedminlet's fix bugs in ST first22:12
srichterand publishing libraries is not our goal22:12
th1aWhen we got the idea to push calendaring, it was an obvious gap.22:13
th1aIn open source and Python.22:13
th1aNot so much anymore.22:13
srichterI think SchoolTool has a great niche that we should exploit as much as possible22:13
mgedminsrichter, btw, IManagerWorkItems seems incomplete to me -- it only has one item, while views use other things22:13
srichterthis does not mean that we have to neglect good software design22:13
ignasi thought one of our goals was geting someone else to fix bugs in schooltool.calendar :D22:13
srichtermgedmin: what do you mean?22:13
th1aWell, there is a real risk that we'd spend more time doing promotion than we'd get back in bug fixes.22:14
th1aOr at least they'd end up roughly equal.22:14
mgedminsrichter, look at IManagerWorkItems22:15
mgedminsrichter, then look at usages of it22:15
mgedmine.g. src/schooltool/level/rest/                for item in interfaces.IManagerWorkItems(manager).items22:15
th1aI have to run for a bit.22:15
mgedminthat view uses IMangerWorkItems.items, which is not declared in the interface22:15
povbot/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5268:22:15
povbot/svn/commits: Fix exception days with the new slots design.22:15
povbot/svn/commits: Before this change, exceptionDays could not cancel a period in the middle of the day, only in the end.22:15
srichteroh, I see22:16
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5269:22:16
povbot/svn/commits: Backported bug fix for Issue381 (broken monthly recurrence rules) revision 5145.22:16
srichterok, file a bug and assign it to me22:16
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5270:22:16
povbot/svn/commits: Oops!  I broke ftests again.22:16
mgedmindid zope 3 suddenly start including docutils or what?22:22
srichterit has it for a very long time22:23
srichterit was already in X3.022:23
mgedminwhy does subversion complain then?22:24
* mgedmin sighs22:24
srichterwhat do you mean?22:24
mgedmin'make update' aborted with a subversion complaint, and buildbot broke down again :-/22:25
* mgedmin puts on his sysadmin hat22:25
srichterhuh, strange22:26
tiredbonesI'm chimming in late, but I think as more people learn Zope 3 technologie, ST will take off. There is a big need for it. Also I wouldn't worry about selling it, it will sell itself in time. Back to lurking!.22:27
mgedmintiredbones, thanks for the kind words22:32
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5271:22:32
povbot/svn/commits: Fix for issue 405: TypeError, _insufficientContext on 'weekly' view.22:32
th1atiredbones:  I'm not worried in the long run either.22:34
mgedminI sometimes am...22:37
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th1aWell, I worry...22:38
povbot/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5272:22:43
povbot/svn/commits: Added functional test for multi-batch.22:43
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povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5273:22:45
povbot/svn/commits: Added unquote_uri from trunk.22:45
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5274:22:46
povbot/svn/commits: Added missing namespace declarations.22:46
mgedminok, now buildbot will not try to run 'make update'22:50
mgedmininstead it will execute separate svn checkout/update steps for schooltool, Zope 3, and zpkgtools22:50
mgedminbuildbot's SVN step is clever enough to try rm -rf && svn co when svn up fails (due to subversion's excessive fussyness)22:51
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5275:23:04
povbot/svn/commits: Added URI unquoting in restive interface.23:04
* ignas is importing Philipps data into release branch23:08
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