IRC log of #schooltool for Thursday, 2005-10-13

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pcardunesrichter, ayt?  I have a few very specific to Zope questions02:41
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srichterpcardune: I am here03:53
pcardunewhen a zope server is restarted, it reinstantiates all the object instances04:01
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pcarduneso if there is a list attribute in some class, then it gets stored in the zodb as a list type object04:02
pcardunemy question is, if I then change the code so that it uses a dictionary, or thinks that attribute is a dictionary, then when zope starts again, the zodb wont know how to put the list it stored into this dictionary object04:02
pcarduneso, is there some way that I can specify a method to convert the list stored in the zodb into a dictionary when everything is reinstantiated?04:03
pcardunesrichter, ayt?04:07
pcardunedid you read above?04:08
srichterpcardune: you have to use generation scripts to update your ZODB04:09
pcarduneyou wouldn't happen to be able to point me to any literature on that?04:09
srichterthere is not much documentation04:10
srichteryou can use the schooltool and Zope 3 generation scripts as pointer04:10
pcarduneor maybe an example04:10
srichteralso has some good documentation04:10
pcarduneok, i'll look there04:10
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povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5238:13:11
povbot/svn/commits: Try to stop the schooltool test runner from printing success statements on stderr.13:11
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povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5239:14:02
povbot/svn/commits: Get rid of test runner warning that TestResponseStatusError is not included in the test suite.14:02
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mgedminsample data generation on my 1.6 ghz laptop: 2 minutes 15 seconds, or so14:26
mgedminlevels  18.94 seconds14:26
mgedminpersonalevents  10.69 seconds14:26
mgedminsection_events  12.5 seconds14:26
mgedminsection_timetables  9.5 seconds14:27
mgedminstudents  5.99 seconds14:27
mgedminthe rest are all < 1 second14:27
mgedmintotal CPU time: 58.92 seconds14:28
mgedminreal world time, I repeat again -- > 2 minutes14:28
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mgedminschooltool process eats 205 megs of virtual memory, 120 megs are resident14:29
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mgedminI have a feeling that Show All/Show Less was always buggy in multi-batch-navigation macros15:08
mgedminso the diff that removed those buttons doesn't help me much :-/15:08
mgedminbatch navigation macros are buggy15:10
mgedminin Python15:10
mgedmin>>> '10' > 1015:10
* mgedmin mumbes something vile under his breath15:10
mgedmin... fscking stupid dunheads ...15:10
* mgedmin looks around guiltily15:10
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povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5240:15:18
povbot/svn/commits: Removed obsolete comments in CSS.15:19
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5241:15:27
povbot/svn/commits: Removed unused batch_start variable.15:27
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5242:15:31
povbot/svn/commits: Unified definition of batch_size in single- and multi- batch navigation macros.  Fixed a bug in multi-batch-navigation-macros: batch_size wasn't converted from str to int, so the comparison batch_size > 10 didn't work when batch_size was '10' (or a lower number, expressed as a string).15:31
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5243:15:44
povbot/svn/commits: Readded 'Show All'/'Show Less' button to batch navigation macros.  I tested this manually, but didn't add a proper functional test.  Bad me. :(15:44
povbot/svn/commits: Closes issue 368.15:44
mgedminACL view timings: with 1049 persons all shown ("show all" in batching)15:49
mgedminfirst rendering (loads objects from disk) with wget: 27 seconds on my laptop15:50
mgedminsubsequent wgets: 14-16 seconds15:50
mgedminto reproduce: rm Data.fs, generate sample data, do time wget -O /dev/null http://manager:schooltool@localhost:7080/persons/@@acl.html?batch_size.persons=104915:50
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erchacheany sysadmin here?15:59
erchachei upgrade my schooltool server from hoary to breezy and cant reboot!15:59
erchachei try to use rescue mode and nothing!16:00
erchachewhat can i do?16:00
mgedminmy condolences16:03
mgedminhow exactly does it not reboot?16:03
erchachedont mount udev on .dev16:04
erchacheon boot process fails on one point and send me to a rescue console....i cant mount anything16:05
erchacheand i cant do nothing....16:05
erchachea shit!16:05
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5244:16:05
povbot/svn/commits: Move failing ftests from level 2 (to be used for too-slow-ftests now) to level 500 (a reference to the HTTP status code, btw).16:05
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5245:16:05
povbot/svn/commits: Docstring fixes.16:05
mgedminerchache, try the #ubuntu channel16:06
erchacheim doing that16:06
mgedminwe won't be able to help you, I'm afraid :-/16:06
erchachewell i going to fight with my server again16:07
erchacheperhaps a reinstall without format can solve it16:07
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* jinty reads the logs and groans in pain and sympathy16:14
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mgedminRan 1 test in 106.249s16:45
mgedminsample data ftest is slow :/16:45
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5246:17:04
povbot/svn/commits: Whitespace fixup17:04
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5247:17:15
povbot/svn/commits: Added a (very slow) functional test for sample data generation.  This test is moved to level 2 by default, so it won't run when developers do ./ -f.17:16
povbot/svn/commits: Changed make ftest to run all tests of levels 1 and 2 so that our buildbot can run the slow tests.17:16
povbot/svn/commits: Updated the README of sampledata package a bit.17:16
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5248:18:09
povbot/svn/commits: Consistency in naming is a good thing.18:09
* mgedmin pulls out an uzi and shoots the authors of the python profiler18:11
mgedminsort_stats() doesn't accept the column names that print_stats() prints!!!18:11
mgedminschooltool.level.promotion.ManagerWorkItems is horribly inefficient18:16
mgedmincalling addWorkItem N times is O(N**2)18:16
mgedminsrichter, I WILL KILL YOU18:17
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5249:18:24
povbot/svn/commits: Speed up sample data generation by 20%.18:24
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5250:18:27
povbot/svn/commits: Added support for reponses with no content-type to ResponseStatusError.  Added capability to set the name of content objects being created.18:27
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erchachei reinstall base system again...18:49
jintyerchache: did you find the cause?18:50
erchachea bad update of breezy?18:50
erchacheits too early to make a apt-get dist-upgrade18:50
jinty??? apparently I got release annoncement today18:52
erchachei must wait a moth to do that....when are enough tested18:53
erchachei have a rare configuration.....sun fire v65x with raid hard scsi....and xfs18:53
erchachemany dependences broke18:53
erchacheand system crashed18:53
erchachemy schooltool go to the rubish!18:54
erchacheuna putada vamos!18:54
erchachepor shulo!18:54
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erchachesi huiera esperado un poco más o al menos tuviera un backup esto no me pasaba ;P18:54
jintyno puedo parar de reir un poco18:55
jintylos siento18:55
erchacheque cachondeandote del projimo ;O18:55
jintypero un destruction con estilo asi...18:56
erchachejejejeje a pelo se hace mejo! no lo sabes ya piltrafilla :D18:56
jintyes un classico18:56
mgedminoi kaip linksma ir smagu mokytis kažkokios nesuprantamos kalbos18:56
erchachejejeje ok ok only english :D18:57
jintyPerhaps a translation of piltrafilla?18:57
erchachewell i only can install base system....18:57
erchacheits same....john....johnny....18:57
jintyguess I'll ask a friend here18:58
erchacheits the best18:59
erchacheis a joke name using for friends....18:59
jintyah like pelotudo in argentinian18:59
erchacheyeah....but more soft and lovely than that19:00
* jinty looks for a good place to hide19:00
erchachei like girls eh!19:00
jintyjust being sure, you started with "soft and lovely"...19:01
erchachejajajajajaja....i dont know to translate...cachondeo19:01
erchachetipical of south spain19:02
ignasth1a, jinty, ping19:14
ignasare we doing a release in the end of this contract ?19:15
jintyI hadn't thought about it.19:15
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5251:19:17
povbot/svn/commits: 2 in 1 Added uri unquoting to xml parsing routines that deal with URIs to other system objects.  Added handling of duplicate relationship errors.19:18
jintyI guess when you guys are finished squashing bugs I can spend some time on the needs-merge bugs then make a bugfix release.19:18
ignasjinty, restiveclient will have to be included in the new release in that case ...19:18
ignasso pips1 would be able to import his data ...19:18
ignasthat is going to hurt :/19:19
jintythat sounds like major new functionality to mew19:19
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th1aCould we just put on the website or something?19:22
jintyor perhaps he could use it from one of our nightly tarballs?19:23
th1aWe'll need to do it that way.19:24
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pips1I don't really see a problem with that, since I'll need to declare the whole thing as a "test" at our school19:25
pips1... anyway.19:25
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ignasth1a, well - bugfixes in RESTive interface were nescessary to make rest import work ...19:25
ignasso it might delay everything ...19:26
pcardune_mgedmin, I'm looking at your blog article on zope generations.  I am having a problem accessing, ++etc++process/@@generations.html as it is asking me for username and password, and not accepting any that I give it19:26
ignaswe must backport all the bugfixes before I can test the scripts on the releaseversion of ST :/19:26
ignasand with bugs like - "WE do not have locations of sections in our restive interface"19:27
th1aI assume we are bumping up against pips1's deadline.19:27
pips1what if I used HEAD ?19:27
ignaspips1, that would make it a lot easier for me19:28
th1aThat should work.19:28
pips1much more bugs hiding there?19:28
mgedminpcardune, yep, it doesn't really work in schooltool :(19:28
mgedmin'cause we have no globally-defined users19:28
mgedminand ++etc++process lives outside any Site19:28
mgedminand our locally defined users work only within Sites19:29
pcardune_mgedmin, is there any way to change that?  because I *really* need to use generations19:29
pcardune_or will it evolve automatically when i restart the server without having to go to that page?19:29
ignaspips1, about the same quantity as in release version :D19:29
ignasbut different breeds :)19:29
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pips1are bugs in the tracker separated well for st 0.11 and 0.12 or is that more a hit & miss situation?19:30
mgedminpcardune, it will evolve automatically19:30
pcardune_mgedmin, ok, that is exellent news.  thanks19:31
ignaspips1, i'll try looking at the issue more accurately19:31
ignasso i would know exact implications of adapting restive client to the release version19:32
* pips1 is comparing bugs in the tracker19:33
ignaspips1, we have some translation issues i was unaware of in HEAD19:34
pips119 active issues of st 0.11 vs. 4 issues of st 0.12 (?!)19:34
ignasand (n) unmarked issues19:36
pips1those 19 issues of st 0.11 is almost a summary of all bugs submitted by me...19:36
pips1I guess I was the only one always assigning them to st 0.1119:36
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5252:19:38
povbot/svn/commits: Added an empty benchmark with sample data.  For now you can use it to determine how long the sample data generation takes.  Or you can add benchmark() calls to benchmark various views with the sample data set (see other benchmarks for examples).19:38
povbot/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5253:19:38
povbot/svn/commits: Adapt only once.19:38
pips1well, the sorting in the tracker doesn't really give any conclusive results at all19:38
pips1I better listen to what the developers say ;-)19:39
pips1ignas: so you discovered some unicode problem, earlier today?19:39
pips1or what do you mean by translation problem19:40
ignaskind of ... if you put non ascii characters as id's for objects19:40
ignasyou could not refer to objects through RESTive interface ...19:40
ignasin some cases19:40
ignasbut i think we can backport such things to release branch19:40
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ignasand you'll be able to use the release version19:41
ignaswith restiveclient from a tarball19:41
ignasor a small separate package19:41
ignasnot 100% sure though19:41
ignasi have no time to investigate it properly19:41
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pips1hmm this time pressure isn't helping...19:42
pips1what the pros and cons of me using release branch or dev branch, I your opinions?19:43
pips1POV? th1a?19:44
pips1(I guess it's not easy to answer that one)19:44
th1aIf I were you I'd use the development trunk.19:44
ignasyep :/19:44
ignasthe problem with dev trunk i can see is - finding the right time to make a snapshot19:45
ignaswe are constanly adding newe features/bugfixes/bugs to the dev trunk19:45
pips1snapshot = tarball?19:45
ignaskind of19:45
ignasor just a checkout19:46
th1aI think pips1 just has to take the first one that has eveything he needs.19:46
ignasno big dfifference between those :/19:46
pips1th1a: good point19:46
pips1th1a: to be honest, there is still quite a bit missing, so being able to launch a site (even declared as a test) in the next week(s) is probably an illusion on my behalf..19:48
th1apips1:  to be honest, I think you're right.19:48
ignaswhat bits exactly ?19:48
pips1the biggest thing missing is resource management (i.e. locations are properly booked, not just "appended" to single events...!)19:49
pips1currently schooltool is good for displaying personal (and timetable) calendars, but the whole resource management side is a bit underpowered, I'd say ;-)19:50
th1aI think *room* management is particularly underpowered.19:51
pips1yes, indeed19:51
ignasi can try a small trick with rooms19:51
th1aI think it is fine for the canonical "projector."19:52
ignasnot sure it'll work though19:52
pips1it's ok to manage a couple of projectors...19:52
ignaswait a few minutes :)19:52
pips1the "canonical" projectors :-D19:52
th1aSee, this is the part of the development process that we need to work out.19:52
th1aNow that we have actual users.19:53
pips1the users need to come into the loop!!19:53
th1aThe, ok, this looks good but you forgot these key bits.19:53
th1aThis is what extreme programming is supposed to handle.19:53
pips1including input in the *planning* stage...19:54
th1aWell... yes.19:54
pips1but I understand you'll now have proposals on the website... so there should be a possibility for "outside" input now, no?19:54
pips1the problem is that the proposals seem to appear "out of nowhere" 1-2 days before they start being implemented ;-)19:55
pips1at least that's how it appears to people who can only participate through the list and not hang out on IRC all the time19:56
th1aYes, I can see that.19:57
ignasmailing list is a bit slow when you want feedback on a feature you can implement in 5-6 hours19:57
th1aI'm not arguing people should be on IRC.19:57
pips1i guess that's what's where the term "extreme" comes from in XP, hey?19:57
pips1plan only 5-6 hours ahead? ;-)19:58
ignasin XP developers have a constant stream of user feedback19:58
pips1sorely missing on the project...19:58
th1aAnyhow, improving the requirements process and getting people involved is a priority.19:58
pips1good stuff19:58
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th1aWell, there are two problems:20:04
th1a1) gaps in requirements20:05
th1a2) process for fixing gaps in requirements20:05
pips1I'm not sure I can follow20:06
th1aWell, like we aren't handling room scheduling well, because it wasn't explicit enough in the spec.20:07
th1aHowever, a lot of that is from relative inexperience with writing requrirements in general, and specifically thinking exactly how a resource manager slash calendar app should function.20:09
th1aAnd I think it is naive to think that more input from relatively casual and/or inexperienced observers will actually solve that problem.  It will help.20:11
ignasth1a, apparently - the framework supports booking resources in timetables, RESTive interface supports that too, yet someone who implemented sections did not look at that20:12
ignasso we have only rudimentary support for that in the actual UI20:12
th1aignas:  point taken.20:13
ignasat the moment in REST i can't add locations to sections  but can add locations to timetable events20:14
ignasand in the real UI - it's the other way around20:14
pips1th1a: yes, I agree, building an SIS is a very complex problem and yes, casual input won't help, unfortunately, the project's resources (paid work) only reach so far...20:14
ignasi am afraid we can't support resource booking in timetables/sections acceptably :(20:15
th1aActually, building an SIS is a more clearly defined problem than what we've done so far, I think.20:15
th1aignas:  What's the issue?20:15
th1aLook at how quickly CanDo came together.20:16
pips1I haven't had the chance to look at CanDo..20:18
pips1But these guys are true pythonistas (on the twisted-side of things?), I understand ..?20:18
pips1plus they are in touch with a school(s) ?20:19
th1aCanDo was written by students.20:19
th1aWell, pcardune might be as old as ignas.20:19
th1aBut it would be illegal for me to buy either of them a beer in the US...20:20
th1aeldar is a junior in high school, I think.20:20
th1ajelkner is a teacher.20:20
th1aThis is a good conversation though.20:23
pips1th1a: what is the deadline for POV for this round?20:24
th1aA week from now, I think?20:25
pcarduneim 18 in case anyone was wondering20:25
pips1basically, ignas and I have made good progress today, but we should have started *planning* our collaboration a bit earlier... ahem.20:26
pips1Basically, we both are discovering things as we go along and I need to improve the data I send him and so on.. it means that sometimes he waits for me to send data, change data whatever20:27
pips1to cut a long story short: I am glad I am getting concrete help, but it's a bit frantic...20:27
th1aWe're learning.20:28
pips1I think this is very valuable to the project though, talking about those "gaps in the requirements" earlier ;-)20:28
th1aMaking progress.20:28
algath1a: In fact the deadline is Monday20:29
pips1alga: darn!20:29
algabut we'd gladly accept the extension to next Friday :-)20:29
th1aSpeaking of writing requirements...20:30
th1aI guess I should be doing that.20:30
algath1a: re FHS timetable20:30
algaI took the route of fixing the timetable library20:31
pips1(the problem is also that I have been stretching my dear wife's patience quite a bit lately, I can't work on weekends really...!)20:31
algaso your use case would work as it should have in the first place20:31
algathat brings its own problems :-)20:32
algayour school will have to run an SVN version ;-)20:32
th1aThat's fine.20:32
algalikewise for pips120:32
pips1alga: ok20:32
pips1why not20:32
th1aalga:  Is that in the trunk now?20:33
algayour timetable? Not yet20:33
algaimports scripts? I guess so20:33
pips1th1a: so re: deadline, I would be very grateful I could continue my work with Ignas next week rather than having to rush it entirely...20:34
pips1(I have to work tomorrow )20:34
th1apips1:  The deadline isn't the point at which they stop working.20:34
th1aThe deadline is the point at which they get a bonus if they're done.20:35
pips1th1a: :-)20:35
th1aAnyhow, I can't change it.20:35
algath1a: will there be a release made after we finish?20:35
pips1normally the deadline involves a release, but this time...?20:35
th1aThere will be bugfixes of the release branches, I imagine.20:36
pcarduneofftopic: how do i get svn status to ignore .pyc files?20:36
algapcardune: edit ~/.subversion/config20:37
algaglobal-ignores = *.o *.lo *.la *.pyc *.pyo TAGS ID #*# .*.rej *.rej .*~ *~ .#* *20:37
pips1th1a, alga: so there will be a release, hten20:37
alga.pyc *.pyo *.so *.mo20:37
pcardunealga, thanks20:37
th1apips1:  There will be a release.20:37
th1aFrom the trunk, a milestone tarball when srichter and bskahan are done with the UI work.20:38
algath1a: we could backport the REST client + needed fixes for the stable versions, so that pips1 could use the stable version, but that would take extra time20:38
pips1so the message to ignas re: those REST backports is? (I don't really need to know that actually)20:38
* pips1 sure is curious about that UI stuff20:39
th1aWell, if it wasn't in the contract then I guess pips should use a trunk snapshot.20:40
algabut that's dangerous20:40
algathere might be problems when upgrading to newer versions20:40
algalast release -> new release will be supported20:41
algaSVN snapshot -> new release will not20:41
th1aOh, I see what you're saying.20:41
th1aWill we provide generations.20:41
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algawe will, but anyway we'll test scripts on migration from stable to stable20:42
pips1generations, is that a zope3 feature?20:42
pips1alga: I see your point re: upgrading20:42
pips1guys, I really need to go.. :-/20:43
algasee you20:43
algath1a: we're running SVN snapshot of Zope3 in one of our projects and upgrading to new releases is something we avoid thinking about20:44
pips1th1a: thanks, I saw that earlier :-)20:44
th1aMost of what srichter is doing is back-endy.20:44
pips1well, since I got to go now, I wil be in touch tomorrow.20:45
pips1basically I need to provide some more explanations/data for ignas to continue, therefore it would be great if I had a little time to get my side of things done..20:46
pips1... so I don't know how my/our "REST showcase example" will work out for the next release...20:47
pips1basically I am working as quickly as I can, it's in my own interest20:47
pips1(hope I am making sense ;-)20:48
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algath1a: if you and pips1 go and use a snapshot, will you be OK with dumping the old instance and starting over?20:50
algathere might be some scripts to help reimport the data20:50
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pcardunehello jelkner20:51
algabut things like passwords would be gone for good20:51
jelknergreat, paul, you're here!20:51
jelkneri wanted to talk with you about the critical bug20:51
th1aalga:  Welcome back to hell.20:51
jelknerhow is it going?20:51
pcarduneits fixed in the trunk20:51
jelkneryes, but now we have the branch issue20:51
pcardunei just have to do a merge to the branch20:52
jelknerwhich is the critical one20:52
jelknerwhat about the data?20:52
pcardunethe data will be fine20:52
jelkneryou changed the data structure, yes?20:52
algath1a: I guess we should have thought it over when planning this release20:52
algath1a: and should have developed some features on the release branches20:52
pcardunei used this uber-cool generations thing so that upon restart it checks which version its using, and "evolves" the data structures appropriately20:52
algaor at least *for* the release branches20:52
jelknerbut how can we be sure it will work?20:53
pcardunei tested it... it works20:53
th1aalga:  Or I could have just written "and backport this" on all the stories.20:53
th1aNot sure why I didn't.  I guess I was thinking I would use the trunk.20:53
pcardunejelkner, also, i changed the candotoo in the url paths to simply cando20:53
jelkneris jinty ready to package?20:54
algath1a: that's a way to go...20:54
pcardunenot until I merge... but then yes i would assume20:54
jelknerand you have time to do that now?20:54
algabut we will need to be very careful not to break stuff on trunk20:54
* th1a needs to learn to backport stuff.20:54
pcardunejelkner, yes... give me 20 minutes or so20:55
jelknerok, great20:55
algath1a: ask for any help you need20:55
th1aWell, I won't need to *track* the trunk.20:55
jelknerlet me run something by you before you do that20:55
jelkneri'm glad you could handle this in time20:55
jelknerdave and i were talking about this at lunch today20:56
jelknerif you ever get in a time jam, and you don't have time to finish something20:56
jelknerjust let me know20:56
jelkneri was planning on asking tom if he could help out20:57
jelkneror ask th1a to suggest someone else20:57
pcardunejelkner, lucky enough for me, two of my classes today were canceled freeing up 5 hours of my time20:57
jelknerthe cool thing about this is that you can work the time you have and if we need other help we can get it20:57
jelknerbut in the future, if you don't have time, don't worry, just let me know20:58
jelknerok, i'll stop blabbing at you and let you get to work! ;-)20:58
th1aalga:  Don't worry about backporting the fhs model.20:58
th1aI'm not sure what to do about pips.20:58
jelknerlet jinty know as soon as it's ready20:58
jelknerit would be great if we could get it fixed by tomorrow20:59
pcardunewill do20:59
th1ajelkner:  do you have a minute to chat?21:02
pcardunejinty, what is the format for the Date when doing an svn merge?  I can't find docs on that anywhere21:04
jelknerth1a: what happened?21:05
th1aWhat happened?21:06
jelkneri've been chatting away on the window you popped up21:06
th1aDidn't get your side, I'm afraid.21:06
jelknerso what do we do?21:06
jelknerhow can i close it21:07
jelkner(after i cut and paste so i don't have to type all that again ;-)21:07
th1aNot sure.21:07
th1aCan you try opening a chat to me?21:07
jelknersure, how do i do that?21:07
jelknerand how can i close th1a without stopping xchat?21:08
jelkner13 minutes until the next class arrives...21:08
th1aOK.  Forget it.21:08
jelknerno, i want to learn to use this anyway21:09
th1aI have a very limit set of IRC skills.21:09
jelknercan anyone else out here help us?21:09
th1aWhat are you using, XChat?21:10
pcarduneright click on the tab21:10
pcardunethen close tab21:10
jelknerthat worked21:10
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jelknernow how do i message you?21:10
th1aI tried you again.21:11
tiredbonesclick on the person name to the right21:11
jelkneri did21:11
jelknerand then i right clicked and selected "offer chat"21:11
th1atry hoffman|edubu21:12
jelkneri got a window that says "Waiting th1a  0B 0B Thu Oct..."21:12
tiredbonesth1a, did you get my message to you21:12
th1atiredbones: no.21:13
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jelkneri can see what tom types, but he can't see what i type21:13
th1aTrying to chat you from X-Chat...21:13
jelknerth1a: do you have gaim?21:14
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tiredbonesth1a, open up a chat window to me21:14
th1aI use AIM on my mac.21:14
jelkneryeah, and i can't get throught the firewall here anyway...21:15
mgedminth1a, could you help me reproduce issue 356?21:15
mgedminI do not have access to Apple's iCal21:15
tiredbonesjelken, open up a chat window to me21:15
tiredbonesjelkner, open up a chat window to me21:15
hoffman|edubutiredbones:  I'm trying.21:15
tiredbonesth1a, I don't know mac stuff.21:16
jelknertiredbones: i just did21:16
jelknerdid it appear for you?21:16
jelknerin my freenode window it says this:21:17
jelkner Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( )21:17
jelknerso i'm unregistred21:17
tiredbonesjelken, do you know how to register?21:17
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jelknercan you tell me?21:17
tiredbonesjelken, etner /msg NICKSERV IDENTIFY pw21:18
tiredbonesjelkner, do you know how to register?21:19
mgedminjelkner, /msg nickserv help, then follow the instructions -- iirc21:19
tiredbonesmgedmin, thanks21:19
pcardunemgedmin, do you know what the svn's date format is, like with using svn merge?21:20
mgedminI used to know...21:20
mgedminpcardune, try
pcardunemgedmin, thanks21:21
th1amgedmin:  What do I need to do with iCal?21:21
mgedminth1a, set your timezone in schooltool user preferences screen21:22
mgedminsubscribe to a calendar with iCal21:22
mgedmincompare event start times on the web and as seen in iCal21:22
th1aOn whose schooltool instance?21:22
mgedminum... do you have your own?21:22
th1aDoes it matter what timezone the server is set to?21:23
mgedminit shouldn't21:23
th1aI"ve got SchoolTool ;-)21:23
jelknerquestion: it seems i registered my nick in the past, but i don't remember my password21:25
jelkneris there anything i can do21:25
mgedminnicks expire if you do not use them for 30 days, don't they?21:25
jelknerbut i log on as jelkner pretty regulary21:25
jelkneri keep trying to msg nickserv identify pw, but i keep getting "Password Incorrect"21:26
mgedminby "use" I mean "send the identify message to nickserv"21:26
jelkneran otherwise wonderful tool (irc, i mean) that is getting in the way of business now...21:27
mgedmin" If you don't IDENTIFY21:27
mgedmin-NickServ- to NickServ for a period of 60 days or more, your21:27
mgedmin-NickServ- nickname will be considered to be expired and it21:27
mgedmin-NickServ- may be dropped."21:27
mgedmin"   Nickname: jelkner21:27
mgedmin-NickServ-          Registered: 38 weeks 1 day (23h 35m 19s) ago21:27
mgedmin-NickServ-           Last Seen: 24 weeks 2 days (10h 42m 24s) ago"21:27
mgedmin24 weeks > 60 days21:27
jelknerso what can i do?21:27
jelkneri need to reregister, yes?21:28
mgedminI do not know :-/21:28
th1aOh... Um, well, first off, I think Apple removed support for subscribing to private calendars.  At least I think they used to support it.21:30
th1aLet me try again...21:30
th1aWhoops.  My bad.  Forgot the .ics.21:31
th1aLooks like the event in iCal is four hours earlier.21:32
th1aThat's with iCal's timezone support "OFF"21:33
th1aYou can turn it on and off,21:33
th1awhich needs to be taken into account when reading bug reports.21:33
mgedminwhat is your timezone in schooltool?21:33
mgedminif you save the .ics file to disk, and open it in a text editor, what does the line that begins with 'DTSTART:' say?21:34
mgedminwhat is the event time you see on the web?21:34
mgedminwhat is the event time you see in iCal?21:34
mgedminwhat is the event time you see in iCal if you enable timezone support?21:34
mgedmin(5 questions)21:34
tiredbonesjelkner, ayt21:35
tiredbonesth1a, did you figure out how to chat to an idividual?21:37
* mgedmin suggests jabber21:38
th1atiredbones:  I know how to do it.21:38
th1ajelkner couldn't talk to me from an unregistered nick, and then I was trying to debug by using another, also unregistered nick.21:38
th1aTypical spiral of chaos.21:39
th1amgedmin:  Well, first off, I seem to be running into a bug I thought we had addressed.21:39
mgedminwhich bug?  and which version of ST do you use?  1.2.2?21:39
th1aI need to get to the site root to check the schooltool timezone?21:40
mgedminerr 0.11.2?21:40
th1aI'm on the trunk.21:40
mgedminah, nice21:40
tiredbonesth1a, I would like to see if my end works, could you send me a message when you get time?21:40
mgedminth1a, I think there is no such thing as "the school timezone"21:40
mgedminth1a, go to your person page (top-right), and click on "Change preferences" in the actions box21:40
mgedminit is very obscure21:41
mgedminI created today21:41
th1aTimezone is set per person?21:41
th1aWell, I suppose that makes sense if you're not a school.21:42
mgedminit would make sense to have a default timezone for everyone21:42
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mgedminotherwise thousands of students will have to set the same timezone manually21:43
th1aOK the timezone is UTC.21:45
th1aOn the web I see 9:00 AM21:46
th1aOn iCal I see 5:00 AM (TZ's off)21:47
* mgedmin predicts the .ics file will say DTSTART:.....T0900Z21:48
th1aTurning on TZ support in iCal has no apparent effect.21:48
mgedminth1a, your real-world timezone is UTC-04:00?21:48
mgedminth1a, if you set the SchoolTool timezone to your real-world timezone, will you see the same event now at 5:00 AM on the web?21:49
th1aWell, here's a bug.21:50
th1aIt looks like events before first period show up in first period.21:50
th1aBut yes, it moves to 5:00 AM on the web.21:50
mgedmin"It looks like events before first period show up in first period."?21:53
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th1aOn the web.  When the event shifts to 5:00 am, it shows up in the first class period block.21:53
th1amgedmin:  your prediction about the .ics file is correct.21:54
th1aWhat does this all add up to?21:54
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mgedminST: no bugs with iCalendar export21:55
mgedminST: user's won't realize that they have to specify their own timezone in a hidden-away preferences view21:56
mgedminST: timetable support is buggy with respect to timezones21:56
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th1aYes, I must eat.21:58
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