IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2005-04-01

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th1aFarcePest: Hi.00:44
FarcePestth1a, hi00:45
FarcePesti figured out how to get into zmi (/++skin++/Rotterdam)00:45
th1aHm.  I'll have to try that.00:46
FarcePesterr, /++skin++Rotterdam00:46
FarcePestI'm thinking ldapauth may have issues working with the Zope3 trunk; i had to comment out part of it's configure.zcml (help:register section)00:47
th1aKind of an awkward time to be working on authentication in Zope 3.00:47
FarcePestso it would seem from what I've read on zope3-dev today00:48
th1aI definitely want to play down hierarchical navigation in SchoolTool.00:49
th1aSchoolTool 0.x overdid it.00:50
th1aIt will probably return in relatively limited contexts.00:50
th1aYou'll want to be able to create sub-groups of students within a class, for example.00:50
th1aFlat is better than nested.00:51
FarcePestis the plan for schoolbell to be a component that schooltool uses/extends rather than a fork? (expecting the answer "yes")00:51
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th1aYes, as much as is possible.00:52
FarcePestone of the things I am looking at doing (which could potentially tie into schooltool) is a profile, i.e. C.V./resume00:54
th1aIn Zope 3?00:55
FarcePestthinking about it, yeah. current implementation is (don't barf) cold fusion and mssql, and only does faculty/staff00:56
FarcePestsome of our departments send out "resume books" for (graduating) student resumes to recruiters, which is basically all their resumes printed out and bound in a dead-tree book00:57
th1aFor a school?00:57
th1aI see.00:57
FarcePesta cd-rom would be a lot cheaper, though not necessarily easy to search, but an on-line site would be better00:58
th1aReportLab will probably be handy.00:59
FarcePestha ha, yeah. i just looked at the pricing page01:00
FarcePestah, been looking at the, just noticed the other01:01 has better prices.01:01
FarcePestwe've been getting our budget (university-wide) cut by a couple percent a year for the last 5 years, and since nobody wants to lay people off, that translates to 10-20% out of operations01:04
th1aSounds familiar.01:04
FarcePestare there any special management items that should show up in schoolbell? I remember schooltool had some, and I saw a bug about a missing "management portal", so I keep thinking something is missing01:23
th1aThere is no "control panel" as such in SchoolBell right now.  If you log in as manager, you should see appropriate contextual links in the left sidebar (Add students when you're in the students index, for example).01:26
FarcePestok, then it probably works01:27
th1aIt seems that if you give admin privileges to regular users they aren't getting the links they should be.01:27
th1aSo it works for the default manager, not regular users with elevated privileges.01:27
th1aWhether or not we'll add more of a standard admin control panel remains to be seen.01:28
FarcePestis first day of week set in config file now?01:29
th1atvon:  perhaps you can answer that question.01:30
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tvonNo, it's a user preference01:47
tvonNot that I know of anyways... a site-wide preference would be good though01:47
th1aThat's what I thought.01:48
FarcePestwill CSV import be returning, or is there some external REST script?01:52
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th1aWe're going to be more K12 focused initially.02:01
th1aI've tried to scale back the "kindergarten through universities" rhetoric on the site.02:02
th1aOur scope is broad enough as it is.02:02
KurtBI don't see too many differences ultimately.02:02
th1aNo, but for the next year we'll be very K-12 focused, at least in the funded development.02:03
FarcePestare you familar with a product called blackboard? (guessing yes)02:03
KurtBheh... yes.02:03
th1aI think then adapting that to post-secondary will happen, but we're now talking two-three years down the road.02:04
KurtBIt was the bane of my existance for about a year here as they got enuf of the bugs out of the 6x implementation.02:04
FarcePestwe're also using blackboard at the moment (and immediate future)02:04
th1aWe also aren't going to be doing funded work on learning management systems, as such.02:04
KurtBwhat we're looking for is ..02:05
th1aBut SchoolTool plus Zope 3 content management (once it exists) should be sweet.02:05
KurtBa way to manage specific tasks that will help us provide a way for auditors to assess our effectiveness in Gen Ed.02:06
KurtBYes, should be sweet.02:06
KurtBSo, back to schooltool....02:07
th1aGen Ed?02:07
KurtBGeneral Education.... how good a job are we doing.02:08
KurtBis the quality of the work our students produce up to par.02:08
th1aQuality of work by students studying to be teachers?02:08
KurtBWe're having an outside entity assess us.02:09
KurtBThat's part of it.02:09
th1aWell, we'll be working on those bits over the summer, but I doubt they'll be ready for you quickly enough.02:10
KurtBalso, a "checks and balances" way for us to see how any one "group" of students/classes are doing.02:10
KurtBIt's an interesting idea.02:10
KurtBSo we don't get "hubbled"... churning out students that don't have the right stuff.02:11
th1aThat's an unfortunately common occurrence in teacher education.02:12
KurtBBut, the administration here is decided to be proactive, and spot check. I give them high marks for it.02:13
KurtBI just hope they don't come up with some crappy tool that brweaks down every time 3 people use the thing at once, and expect me to  keep it running.02:13
th1aWhat's their timeframe?02:14
KurtBEnd of Fall Semester.02:14
th1aFarcePest:  CSV importing will be in SB 1.1, hopefully in a month.02:14
th1aMight they be hiring someone to write this from scratch?02:15
KurtBth1a, well... they are pretty .... stubborn... about how they make purchases. The administration likes...02:16
KurtBto see a working product.02:16
th1aThat's wise.02:16
KurtBBlackboard's solution... is really not a solution.02:17
KurtBIt has "portfolios" but now way to agregate and assess them.02:17
KurtBno way, that is.02:17
FarcePestth1a, do you presently care that one of the tests fails on Python-2.4? If you do, I'll put in a bug02:17
th1aA test in SchoolBell 1.0?02:18
FarcePestin the trunk version02:18
th1aWhich test?02:18
FarcePest  File "/home/andy/schoolbell/src/schoolbell/app/browser/", line 585, in getDays02:18
FarcePest    day = max(start, first_day)02:18
FarcePestTypeError: can't compare datetime.datetime to datetime.date02:18
KurtBI think I know just enuf about zope to want to try to convince them to let us have the portfolio management built in zope. I think it might handle it well.02:19
FarcePestI think this might be due to the datetime types being real types now (implemnented in C)02:19
FarcePest(now == python-2.4)02:19
th1aFarcePest:  I've seen that, too.02:19
FarcePestor it may be your test is wrong, it seems to be passing in a datetime instead of a date in that one case only02:19
th1aKurtB:  Are you considering using Plone for portfolios?02:20
KurtBI've thought about it.02:20
KurtBI have a plone running here sucessfully.02:20
th1aFarcePest:  it is definitely a bug.  I can't remember if it is already in the tracker.02:20
th1aKurtB: It seems to me that Plone gives you everything you need for a portfolio system.02:21
th1aPlone + Archetypes.02:21
KurtBth1a Still, need to have a way to tag/workflow an item from an instructor to a student, then agregate those portfolio'd objects.02:21
KurtByeah. It looks that way. I 'get it', but I'm not the coder that the project needs.02:22
th1aYeah, the regular CMF workflow is based on roles, not individuals, so there isn't an obvious way to send the item to the correct instructor.02:23
th1aI'm sure there are ways to do it, though.02:23
FarcePestdon't see it in the issue tracker02:23
th1aIf you'd like to add it, we'd appreciate it.02:24
FarcePestworking on it02:24
th1aKurtB:  So you aren't actually looking for a calendar server, right?02:24
KurtBI'm thinking groups (gruf) sending an object from instructor to students. need to create a portfolio "folderish" object for each student.02:24
KurtBthat calendar is what the School of Ed wants.02:25
th1aOh, ok.02:25
KurtBThat brings me back to SchoolTool. :-)02:25
th1aGood, since that's all we've got now ;-)02:25
KurtB:-)  So... can I wedge schooltool into my working zope3?02:25
KurtBmaybe with a:02:26
KurtB python2.3 install --home /web/zope3/instance1/lib/python/02:26
* KurtB wags his tail hopefully.02:26
th1aThere are instructions in src/schoolbell/app/02:27
th1aSomething like that.02:27
KurtBah. Thanks. I'll look there. :-)02:27
th1aIt is pretty straightforward.02:27
th1aI have to go make dinner.02:34
KurtBI think I'm having difficulty with shedding the "/Products" paradigm02:35
KurtBThanks! :-)02:35
KurtBI'll figure it out.02:35
th1aIt's all about ZCML now.02:37
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FarcePestjust gave ya another bug, th1a03:40
* FarcePest is a bug magnet03:40
th1aWhat is it?03:42
FarcePestdeleting current event from a recurring says it will delete the first occurence, but it deletes the right one anyway. dialog is misleading03:42
th1aYeah, I had noticed some problem with deleting recurring events in passing, but I didn't have time to examine exactly what was happening when it occurred.  So thanks for getting that in the tracker.03:44
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FarcePesti guess it's april 1 in some places now03:47
tvonIs the relationship code we have now born of what SteveA wrote?04:31
tvonwell, regardless, is there any reason not to submit it for inclusion in z3?04:31
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th1atvon: Yes, that's SteveA's work, at least originally.05:00
* tvon wants to get it into z305:05
tvonWe'd have to give half the C to Zope Corp to do that05:07
tvonSteveA: Has submitting it to z3 ever come up?05:09
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SteveAtvon: i don't think it is right for zope308:04
SteveAthere's something more tied into interfaces and such that ben saller, jim fulton and i discussed at the plone/zope3 castle sprint08:07
SteveAwhich unfortunately no one has had time to work on08:07
tvonheh, okay08:07
tvonsomething for 3.2 perhaps?08:08
tvonif there is something else in the works, thats great.  It seems to be a very powerful concept/feature/utility for a lot of uses08:27
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bskahanlooks like IAthentication2 broke tests again15:26
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FarcePestyikes, big zope3 update20:16
FarcePestit blowed up good20:19
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th1aIs there a method to flip a boolean object from True to False or vice versa?23:12
th1aA built-in method, that is.23:13
FarcePesttwob = not twob23:14
th1aThat'll do it.  Thanks.23:14
FarcePestbools are immutable, i think, so there couldn't be a method23:14
th1aThat would make sense.23:15
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