IRC log of #schooltool for Thursday, 2005-03-03

mgedminminimum value of 1em for eventHeight is too small, I think00:00
mgedmin3ems look much better00:00
* mgedmin suddenly wants to add checkins as events to his calendar00:03
bskahanmmm, 0 duration events00:04
* bskahan ponders what 0 duration events should look like vs. 5 min events00:05
mgedminok, see you tomorrow00:09
*** mgedmin has quit IRC00:09
* bskahan wonders what happens with very-long-descriptions (tm)00:14
*** tvon|desk is now known as tvon00:19
*** vincy has joined #schooltool00:42
*** vincy has left #schooltool00:42
*** tvon|x31 has joined #schooltool00:53
*** bskahan has quit IRC01:03
*** gintas has quit IRC01:25
*** hazmat has joined #schooltool03:18
*** hazmat has quit IRC03:45
*** tvon has quit IRC03:56
*** hazmat has joined #schooltool04:35
*** fcps has joined #schooltool06:22
*** tvon|x31 has quit IRC06:23
*** fcps has quit IRC06:24
th1aSchoolBell seems to be behaving better on Safari.06:26
*** hazmat_ has joined #schooltool06:58
*** th1a has quit IRC08:04
*** d2m has quit IRC08:24
*** d2m has joined #schooltool09:54
*** Voblia has quit IRC10:29
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool12:27
*** mgedmin has quit IRC12:43
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool12:49
*** Aiste has quit IRC14:13
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool14:13
*** gintas has joined #schooltool14:38
mgedmincould google be building a web calendaring service?
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool15:41
*** gintas has quit IRC15:56
*** Homeblia is now known as Workblia16:09
*** hazmat has quit IRC17:16
*** hazmat_ has quit IRC17:17
*** mgedmin has quit IRC17:18
*** th1a has joined #schooltool17:30
th1amgedmin:  The question seems to be whether Google is working on indexing iCal files or running a full calendar.17:40
Workbliath1a, mgedmin is not here am17:41
th1aOh, yeah.  I was just looking over the logs.  I'm still half asleep, I guess.17:42
th1aI've got myself completely out of whack again, sleep-wise.17:42
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool18:22
*** mgedmin has quit IRC18:51
th1aWhen using the self-contained SchoolTool distribution, is the ZMI there at all:  if you do /@@contents.html what happens?18:51
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool18:51
*** tvon has joined #schooltool18:53
*** alga has quit IRC18:55
*** jinty has joined #schooltool19:03
th1amgedmin:  Did you get a chance to look at the bug report Billy Smith sent to the list about 1.0?  That's a little more important now than his 0.9 problem :-)19:06
th1aSince he's a sys admin in an actual school, I'd like to make sure we give him a hand.19:06
* jinty thinks it's a lack of docutils19:08
th1aOh.  It might be a separate RPM package in Red Hat?19:08
jintyas well as debian. Marius also noticed the same tests which fail in his e-mail.19:10
mgedminth1a, not yet19:11
mgedminstill reading the backlog19:11
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool19:13
mgedminit's getting difficult to keep track of issues and decide which ones are important enough to backport to the 1.0 branch19:16
th1aMaybe we should use an issue tracker?19:16
mgedminI will start filing issues in the tracker and tag them with a "proposed for 1.0" keyword19:16
mgedminand then let our release manager decide the rest19:17
jintyAnd shoot him when he gets it wrong?19:17
th1aI've learned to stay out of his way.19:17
jintyWell the number of issues with 1.0....19:18
jintybut anyway, can I do this now?: svn cp svn+ssh:// svn+ssh://
mgedminnot sure, but I'd double check the checkins made to the trunk after your previous branch19:22
Workbliawell 168 is important enough imho19:22
* jinty is investigating19:25
* mgedmin hides in shame19:25
Workbliaapparently i forgot a couple of tests and the bugs crawled in through the hole ...19:26
* mgedmin can't get used to roundup for some reason19:27
th1aI really don't like it.19:27
* th1a starts thinking about Basecamp again.19:28
mgedminoops, jinty, I completely misunderstood your question19:28
jintyWorkbila: what was the second bug?19:32
* tvon wonders if the z3 issuetracker is any good19:35
* mgedmin strongly doubts it19:36
mgedminjinty, how about svn mkdir svn+ssh://
Workbliajinty, well one part of the form was not set because of marius bug and another because of mine bug19:37
mgedminfollowed by svn mv svn+ssh:// svn+ssh://
mgedminand then svn cp/mv only the relevant top-level things19:38
* tvon doesnt mind PCNG so much, takes tweaking and CSS love though19:38
jintyfine, I only want a place to put my new top level stuff, README,, etc19:39
* mgedmin tries to decipher "PCNG"19:40
th1aI just set up a free Basecamp account.19:42
mgedminuh oh19:42
jintyWorkbila: It looks quite minimal, only one line in a *.py. But in future I would appreciate a more explicit commit message.19:43
th1aWe're all switching to Ruby on Rails.19:43
mgedminPloneCollectorNG's bugs are tracked in sourceforge's brain-dead issue tracker19:43
mgedminthey don't eat their own dogfood!19:43
th1aI'm FedEx-ing the Pickaxe book to everyone.19:43
* mgedmin googles Basecamp19:43
th1aSchoolBell 1.1 will be in Ruby!19:44
tvonmgedmin: hehe, this is true, but all the collective stuff is there19:44
tvonsweet, a free login form19:45
th1aI'll make accounts.19:45
th1aI need to make sure I'm spelling Lithuanian names correctly.19:45
tvonin zcml, whats the difference between menuItem and addMenuItem?19:46
* mgedmin looks at and is not impressed19:46
jintymgedmin: 3140 looks ok?19:47
th1aBasecamp is very highly regarded.19:47
tvonI'm not really opposed to it19:50
th1aI'll set it up and try moving some bugs over.19:50
*** gintas has joined #schooltool19:52
mgedminjinty, yes19:53
jintyok, moving it along then19:53
mgedminbasecamp looks nice19:59
mgedminI like how it shows examples instead of empty screens19:59
th1a37 Signals are becoming web application gurus.20:00
th1aWorkblia:  what's your email?  what username do you want on Basecamp?20:01
*** Workblia is now known as ignas20:01
ignashm my name is a non registered nick on freenode20:02
ignasmaybe i should drop the blia stuff20:02
ignasit's kind of unproffessional anyway when dealing with slavic people20:02
tvonit does make it easier to tell who the hell you are to someone who is on the list and pops in here to chat :)20:03
th1aignas:  It makes me think of "labia."20:03
*** ignas is now known as Voblia20:04
*** Voblia is now known as ignas20:04
*** th1a is now known as th1abia20:05
*** th1abia is now known as th1a20:05
th1aYou know, the real advantage of using Basecamp is that you learn a lot about usability.20:06
th1aThey've got a great "Things that you can do that you haven't done yet" box at the bottom of the page as you start setting up the project.20:07
th1aWe could definitely use that.20:07
* mgedmin nods20:07
th1aThey are human though.  I've gotten a couple broken links and Server Errors.20:08
th1aThey have nice subtle calendars.20:09
mgedmincalendars? where?20:10
* tvon read something the other day about another calendar thingy20:10
th1aIn Basecamp.20:11
tvoner, nm... think it was about RH having plans for something to compete with Novell...20:11
th1aI wonder if we can ethically steal their iCal icon, since it is itself a rip of Apple's icon:
th1aI suppose I could ask them.20:13
th1aHere is a SB 1.0 To Do list:
tvonwants login20:16
th1aYou should have gotten it.20:17
th1aEveryone should have been mailed one now.20:17
tvonoh, got it :)20:17
tvonstupid evolution cant filter to save it's life20:17
* mgedmin tried evolution for mail and discarded it after 30 minutes20:18
mgedminmaybe I'll try it again in a couple of years20:18
gintasit's not *that* bad20:18
gintastakes a while getting used to though20:19
tvonstill using mutt?20:19
mgedmingintas, for me, evolution is completely unusable, but let's not start an off-topic discussion here20:20
tvona year-ish ago I made an effort to move away from everything-in-screen.. which at this point basically means I use xchat instead of irssi and evo instead of mutt20:20
tvonI still prefer vim in screen over gvim, and can't really use gedit or any IDE for more than 30 determined-to-try minutes20:20
*** th1a is now known as th1a|unch20:21
* tvon can't finda wya to change his basecamp password20:22
ignastvon, well you can allways use emacs + ognus + erc :)20:22
tvonthere we go..20:23
tvonyou lost me at emacs :)20:23
* mgedmin never grokked screen (don't take away my ^A from me!)20:23
tvonhehe, screen kicks so much ass20:24
ignaswell marius is using emacs and is not having that many problems with it20:24
tvonI thought POV was a vim shop :)20:24
ignas2 emacses vs 3 vims20:25
th1a|unchtvon:  do you need to go to the "People" page?20:26
tvonth1a|unch: yeah, and your person has a lil 'edit' link20:26
tvonnot the most intuitive thing methinks20:27
th1a|unchI'd agree.20:27
ignasth1a|unch, can you create an account for POV instance of schoolbell so we could subscribe the SB to the iCal interface someday ? :)20:27
mgedminwho uses emacs???20:27
mgedminis there another marius in the office?20:27
ignasmgedmin, well when pair programming with me you do :)20:28
mgedminI do not _use_ emacs, I _struggle_ against it20:28
th1a|unchignas:  Create an account on Basecamp?20:28
ignassometime :) if we are going to add support for integration of SB with Basecamp :)20:29
ignasthere is "Subscribe to iCalendar"20:29
jintycan I send mail to basecamp?20:29
th1a|unchWell, people are going to want a utility to poll external iCal files and update their SchoolBell.20:30
* mgedmin wants schoolbell to be able to subscribe to remote web calendars, eventually -- but not in the near future20:30
tvonschoolbell should be able to subscribe to ical urls at some point20:30
th1a|unchI think it would be easier to do via REST.20:30
th1a|unchOtherwise you'd need to use ZEO, wouldn't you?20:30
tvonI wonder if people can be shared across projects20:31
th1a|unchYou set up a company, then projects within the company.20:31
th1a|unchSo people can be shared among projects in the same company.20:31
th1a|unchYou only get one project for free, though.20:31
tvonI was thinking of Etria setting up Basecamp and having the info from ST listed in our account20:32
*** d2m has quit IRC20:33
*** d2m has joined #schooltool20:41
th1a|unchI think Basecamp might look better than it works.20:45
tvondoes it have an actual issue tracker or just the messages thing?20:48
th1a|unchWell, that's one of the things that has baffled me about Basecamp.20:48
th1a|unchWhat good is a project manager that doesn't have a fucking bug tracker.20:49
th1a|unchI wonder if there is some Basecamp Zen I'm not appreciating.20:50
th1a|unchLet go of the bug tracker and use To-Do's, Luke.20:50
th1a|unchPlus I'd like to be able to connect a To-Do to a message, or vice versa.20:52
th1a|unchOK, I'm really going to lunch.20:53
* jinty goes to find oue how to send mail to roundup then20:53
mgedminhey, let's suspend work on schooltool/bell for a month or two and write a decent bug tracking system!20:54
tvonsweet, I'm in20:54
jintywhy don't we just use debzilla20:56
mgedminwhat's debzilla?20:56
tvonwe should move the whole project to savannah20:56
jintyor am I confused20:57
mgedminis it officially called debzilla?20:57
mgedminI usually refer to it as "debian's bts"20:57
tvonI effing hate that thing20:57
* mgedmin thinks there are only two good bug tracking systems in the world: debian's reportbug & bugilla.gnome.org20:57
tvonat least every time I've viewed a bug it's a dump of a bunchof raw emails20:57
tvonbunch of20:58
jintyI think the program is debzilla, but the instance is debian bts20:58
mgedminreportbug <something> rules as compared to doing queries and finding out what product/package/whatever to select, though20:58
mgedmindebian's web interface to the bug system sucks20:58
* jinty agrees20:58, however, is slick20:58
* jinty thinks the mail system rules20:59
tvonyeah, it's not too shabby20:59
mgedminI never realized bugzilla could be simplified and prettified to the point where it actually becomes easy and pleasant to use20:59
mgedminuntil I saw bugzilla.gnome.org20:59
tvonI suspect it takes a month of work to do21:00
* jinty sends a mail to issue_tracker att and prays21:00
ignasin my humble opinion - phpBB + SB would be a better alternative to the Basecamp21:03
ignasphpBB is a much more powerfull alternative to a plain message board21:04
ignasand SB is our own dogfood21:04
* mgedmin likes cats21:09
mgedminwhy do people talk about dog food, as opposed to cat food?21:10
ignasbecause dog food is worse than catfood21:10
ignascat dfood at least smells good ;)21:10
tvonwhat cat food are you smellin?21:11
mgedmin"viskas", btw, is the Lithuanian word for "everything"21:12
*** hazmat has joined #schooltool21:16
tvonlate lunch time21:17
*** tvon has quit IRC21:17
* mgedmin about to move src/schoolbell into /trunk/schoolbell/src/schoolbell21:18
mgedminjinty, ayt?21:29
mgedminon second thought, never mind21:30
jintynow im just left curious21:30
mgedminI wanted to ask you to add schoolbell's in /trunk/schoolbell21:30
jintyI want to re-write is21:30
mgedminthen I realized that it doesn't actually do anything useful for the developers21:30
mgedminas schoolbell itself doesn't have C extension modules21:30
mgedmindo we want svn:externals for pulling Zope 3 into /trunk/schoolbell?21:31
jintyhow are you going to develop otherwise?21:32
jintyjust stick it at revision 29357 for the meantime please21:33
jintyit's safer, we can think about moving it when we know more about what happens next21:34
* jinty tries to remember what he was doing21:35
mgedminoops, sorry for distracting you21:35
jintyno worries, I'm sure I do it to you as well21:37
* jinty figured it out and goes looking for bugfixes that should be in the release.21:37
*** th1a|unch is now known as th1a21:41
ignasimho we should have some passer by testing21:56
ignasfor sb 1.021:56
mgedminhallway testing?21:57
th1aI've been pushing test instances on people.21:57
ignasand how are they doing ?21:58
*** tvon has joined #schooltool21:59
ignasimho - the users of the callendar can see too much of the administrators stuff (in breadcrumbs for example) and administrating interface is cludgy21:59
th1aOne little issue is what "resources" refer to.  Not sure what we can do about that.21:59
th1aI don't think there's a clearer word.21:59
mgedmin"things"... "stuff"... nah22:00
jintya problem with abstracting stuff22:00
th1aOne thing that we might want to do is make locations more distinct in the interface.22:01
th1aPeople don't naturally think of locations as a subset of physical objects.22:01
ignaswell if we had a way to delete resources/persons22:01
ignaswe could at least create some example resources to guide people22:01
ignasas what should be there22:01
th1aI'll be writing some documentation.22:02
ignasoh, i see22:02
ignaswell that fixes some things22:02
th1aI actually think we're in a good spot overall.22:02
ignasyet i am sadened that it would be kind of hard to use our application with it's current functionality wiothout documentation ...22:03
th1aA bit rough but basically straightforward is better than rough with lots of weird unknown functionality, which is where we've bin.22:03
ignasat least administrating baffled me a bit, yet i guess one should not have to do a lot of things with permissions when not using imported calendar22:03
th1aOne thing that we might consider is making SchooBell unrestrictive by default.22:04
th1aI mean, schools are an inherently restrictive milieu, so I've been trying to keep us thinking like paranoids.22:05
th1aBut realistically, other organizations are going to be setting these things up with the goal of sharing public calendars.22:06
th1aThey've already got private calendars on their desktop.22:06
ignaswell then :) according to Joel, the next goal should be integrating SB with as many desktop calendaring applications seamlesly (so anyone could use their beloved calendaring app and have their events on SB too)22:07
ignasbut now :) onto booking resources ;)22:08
*** hazmat has quit IRC22:14
* jinty wonders about the traceback that th1a posted. was it solved?22:16
jintyexcept for that, I think I'm ready for rc2. Tomorrow morning.22:18
* jinty goes into IRC-less land.22:19
th1aYeah, did anyone have a look at that traceback?22:20
mgedminslipped my mind :(22:21
mgedminI'll look at it before tomorrow morning22:21
mgedminI'll reply to the email22:21
jintyok, I'll wait for that.22:21
mgedminignas, you wanted to peek at resource booking api22:22
mgedminyou can come over here22:22
* jinty wonders how many instances of mutt he has open22:23
*** jinty has quit IRC22:24
*** hazmat has joined #schooltool22:24
mgedminpidof mutt|wc -l22:26
* mgedmin winks22:26
alga* mgedmin is talking to himself and is wearing heeadphones22:33
mgedminam I talking to myself?22:34
mgedminI did not hear that!22:35
algaDeep Hack Mode (TM)22:39
ignasmgedmin, you were talking behind your back22:40
ignasso you would not hear you22:40
mgedminare you sure that wasn't my evil twin?22:43
gintasin a parallel universe22:44
*** ignas is now known as ignas|home22:46
*** mgedmin has quit IRC22:56
*** hazmat has quit IRC23:02
*** gintas has quit IRC23:12
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool23:46
mgedminth1a, I think I have a fix for your traceback23:48
th1aCool.  What was the problem?23:49
mgedminsee for the boring details23:49
mgedminmy fix works, now I need a test23:49
mgedminfix committed: rev 3173.23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!