IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2005-02-28

*** alga has joined #SchoolTool02:24
*** bskahan has quit IRC03:16
*** alga has quit IRC04:55
tvonum.... is the Data.fs different for the standalone schoolbell and the add-via-ZMI schoolbell?05:20
tvonI should do the import for the former, right?05:20
th1aOh, you mean, should we assume they're importing to a stand-alone?05:21
tvonmaybe the data.fs is the same...dunno, just occoured to me that I might have overlooked a big thing05:21
th1aNo point in doing both.05:21
th1aIf there is a difference.05:21
th1aI wonder if we'll need to worry about that in the future.05:22
tvonk, I'll check out the standalone and assume thats what it is..05:22
th1aThat would kinda suck.05:22
tvonthough it would be nice if this xml export/import junk got more than 10 seconds of usage ;)05:22
th1aWe'd have to make a decision on which way to go, at that point.05:22
th1aIs that how you're doing it?05:22
tvonits probably close enough...05:22
tvondumping the users/groups/resources/relationships whatnot into xml and then importing05:23
tvonexcept for ical, which is just dumped to plain ical files05:23
th1aWhat kind of XML?05:23
tvonuhm... SchoolToolXML :)05:23
th1aBut it is one big XML document?05:24
tvonhrm, should get a copy of the Data.fs from the POV instance tomorrow.. I'm testing with the sampleschool data05:25
th1aWe just need to beat on the brat for the next two weeks.05:25
*** bskahan has joined #schooltool05:34
*** jinty has joined #schooltool07:11
jintypopcon - schoolbell 9, schooltool 210:18
*** Aiste has quit IRC10:37
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool10:47
*** d2m has quit IRC10:50
*** d2m has joined #schooltool11:10
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool14:27
*** SteveA_ has joined #schooltool14:35
*** SteveA has quit IRC14:36
*** SteveA_ is now known as SteveA14:36
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool16:02
th1ajinty:  popcon?16:14
* bskahan read that as popcorn16:16
th1aDoes it make more sense that way?16:17
* jinty starts lunch16:20
*** jinty has quit IRC16:28
* mgedmin reads irc logs16:37
* mgedmin notes that he tends to use ispell since English is not his native language ;)16:37
* alga tends to use ispell for his native language more often16:57
th1aOK, I've got 995 pages of report cards printing out over at school.  One less monkey on my back.16:58
th1aActually, it was a bit of a debacle, from beginning to end, due to some communication breakdowns.17:01
th1aI've definitely got an itch to scratch with SchoolTool.17:01
*** jinty has joined #schooltool17:12
*** jinty_ has joined #schooltool17:13
*** jinty_ has quit IRC17:15
*** SteveA_ has joined #schooltool17:26
*** SteveA has quit IRC17:30
*** SteveA_ is now known as SteveA17:30
tvoncan groups be members of groups in 1.0?17:36
tvonnot yet or not gonna?17:38
mgedminnot gonna17:38
mgedminthat's a feature17:38
mgedminI remember you hiding all traces of the group tree in 0.917:39
tvonwho, me?17:39
mgedminyou or bskahan17:39
mgedminthe backend supports it, but the front-end doesn't allow you to add groups to groups17:39
th1aUpon my urging.17:39
th1aWe'll eventually add it back in, cautiously.17:40
tvonso as far as migration goes, ignore it?17:40
th1aWell, retain the groups but not the hierarchy, I guess.17:41
tvonI'm just thinking in terms of membership17:42
th1aOK, so I download SchoolTool, I type "make test" and I get "ImportError: cannot import name serviceManager"17:46
th1aWhat am I doing wrong?17:46
jintyschooltool is broken, i think17:47 schoolbell is what I do17:47
th1aI'm assuming this will be more clear in the release.17:48
jintythe schooltool module won't even be in the tarball17:48
th1aI was hoping you'd say that.17:48
jintyI'm still see-sawing whether the /debian/ directory should.17:49
*** Voblia has quit IRC17:50
jintybtw: did you get a chance to test that windows installer?17:50
* jinty was surprised he could make one17:50
*** Voblia_ has joined #schooltool17:51
th1aI have not, unfortunately.17:51
th1aI assume I have to have a trunk version of Zope 3 installed?17:51
jintywelcome to random_zope_trunk_checkout_dependency hell17:52
th1aI'm in your world now.17:52
th1aI should be able to just make a Zope 3 installer using the instructions I've got, right?17:53
mgedminjinty, will there be a Makefile in the release?17:53
* jinty goes and checks
jintyyour thoughts?17:54
mgedminthen it should be fixed so that 'make test' does the right thing17:54
*** gintas has joined #schooltool17:55
th1aOK, how do I log into my new schoolbell-server?17:55
mgedmina lot of top-level files (e.g. README) are for schooltool, not for schoolbell17:55
mgedminth1a, manager, pwd: schoolbell17:55
th1aLet's make sure that's more clear, too.17:55
jintymgedmin: you (plural) will be making separate subversion repos of schooltool and schoolbell?17:56
th1aOoh.  Zope style access control.17:57
jintyif so, I can back port the docs that will be made, and purge the rest17:58
* mgedmin shrugs17:59
jintyor do something halfway intelligent17:59
mgedminI think one repository is ok17:59
mgedminbut I'd like separate top-level directories for schoolbell and schooltool17:59
mgedminthings like readme, makefile,, docs, etc17:59
jintythats what i meant17:59
jintybtw, I agree completely.18:00
mgedminI thought you vetoed the /trunk/schooltool and /trunk/schoolbell split18:00
* th1a strikes his virtual gavel.18:00
mgedminbefore the release18:00
jintyyes, just before I branch tomorrow18:00
*** Voblia has joined #schooltool18:00
jintyafter, I don't mind what you do to the tree18:01
th1aLet's get started, folks.18:01
th1aIn a way I feel like this is day one of the SchoolTool project.18:02
th1aWe're going to have an actual release that doesn't feel like it is going to be ripped at some point in the not too distant future.18:02
th1aIt has been a long road.18:02
algaUnfortunately I feel we're still not there...18:03
th1aI was reading over the assessments of the first Java SchoolTool for this paper I'm writing.18:03
th1aThis project started in January 2001.18:03
th1aOK, what are the issues?18:03
alga- restive api -- not done18:04
*** tvon|desk has joined #schooltool18:04
alga- resource boking -- not done18:04
algathe security and calendaring took significantly more than we expected18:04
mgedminno timezones, no all-day events18:05
algano i18n18:05
mgedmini18n probably is there, but not actually tested18:05
algaout of scope now18:06
alganow it's up to zope, not us :-)18:06
mgedminunless zope 3 has ssl support?18:06
jintyI saw something once called pound18:07
tvon|deskmigration is not complete, it could be RC ready today with a little jinty help though18:07
*** tvon is now known as tvon|x3118:07
*** tvon|desk is now known as tvon18:08
mgedminssl for zope3:
jintytvon: what do you need?18:08
th1aWell, I'm not too distraught over the pace of development.  We had an ambitious schedule.18:08
th1aWe've got basic calendaring with ACL working, right?18:09
tvonjinty: not sure where/how to include it in the debian scripts18:09
tvonjinty: no biggy18:09
mgedminth1a, yes18:09
jintytvon, scripts/ is fine18:10
th1aI think it is a good release to introduce people to SchoolBell on Zope 3.18:10
jintyit's not debian specific anyway18:10
tvonin schooltool trunk or the db-upgrade branch?18:10
tvonah, okay18:10
th1aWe'll just have to have a 1.1 release sooner than I thought.  The only real problem is that it pushes SchoolTool Calendar back.18:11
* mgedmin tries to find the sb 1.0 goals page on schooltool.org18:11
algath1a: we've got advanced rock-solid zope3 permissions!18:11
jintytvon, I'll do upgrade testing in chroots between branching and tagging the rc18:12
tvonjinty: okay18:12
th1aalga: speaking of permissions, I seem to be able to add and delete events but I don't have permission to edit them.18:14
th1aOn my own calendar.18:14
algath1a: yeah, the editing is not yet finished...18:15
th1aWhat's up with the super-long ids for events?18:16
mgedminiCalendar event UIDs are supposed to be globally unique18:16
gintaswe are exposing the internal iCalendar ids18:16
mgedminwe shouldn't expose them in breadcrumbs, though!18:17
gintasmgedmin was considering enumerating them instead of showing them in full18:17
th1aYou could use the event title in the breadcrumbs.18:17
tvonthats what I was thinking18:17
tvonI actually think all the breadcrumbs should use a title and not an id/name18:18
* mgedmin nods18:18
th1aI was also thinking we could just ditch the little GNOME house icon, since the connection between a house and today isn't terribly direct.18:18
mgedmineek, the AbsoluteURL view does not give us titles!18:18
th1aI agree about titles in the breadcrumbs.18:18
mgedminonly names and urls :-/18:19
* jinty notes that patches for serious issues are welcome in the release branch before 1.0 final18:19
th1aCan we allow authenticated users to see the indexes by default?18:20
algaand gnome icons are copyrighted too18:20
algaand they're GPL18:20
th1aRight, at this point we aren't using many, are we?18:20
bskahanwe have the gnome arrows as well18:20
bskahanno, very few18:20
algaI don't think we should use them at all18:20
tvonif its a licensing issue then we should ditch them, but we do need pretty things in the UI18:21
algaespecially without (c) credits anywhere18:21
th1aWe don't intend to in the long run, but at the moment we don't need enough icons to justify hiring someone.18:21
mgedminissue: testing with MSIE18:21
mgedminsomeone ought to convert the logo image to 8-bit so transparency works in IExplorer18:22
mgedmin(currently the logo is displayed with an ugly red background)18:22
tvonk, I'll take care of it18:22
th1aRegardless, I we should be able to come up with our own arrows in the next two weeks.  Are the little calendar grid icons from GNOME?18:23
tvonth1a: yes, all except the ugly 'year' icon18:23
mgedminactually, all icons that use transparency should be converted to 8 bits per pixel18:23
bskahanhey, the years not that ugly18:24
jintymgedmin: does the iCal parser depend on anything outside the standard library?18:24
mgedminthe code -- no, the module -- yes18:25
th1aAnyway, let's ditch the house.18:25
jintythe difference?18:25
mgedminjinty, if you cp schoolbell.calendar.icalendar into ~/tmp; cd ~/tmp; python -c 'import icalendar', you will get an import error18:25
tvonth1a: okay18:25
mgedminbecause imports SimpleCalendarEvent from schoolbell.calendar.simple18:25
mgedminhowever if you just use ICalReader, it won't actually use that class18:26
th1aLooking forward just a bit now...18:27
gintashuh?18:27 from schoolbell.calendar.simple import SimpleCalendarEvent18:28
th1aI'd *really* like to have a public SchoolBell demo server ready for the 1.0 release.18:28
gintasoh, I did not read the backlog18:28
th1aIdeally on the new Canonical server we haven't had a chance to use yet.18:29
algath1a: when is the 1.0 release expected?18:29
th1aTwo weeks, right jinty?18:29
jinty+1 dat18:30
bskahanwill we have a second RC next monday?18:30
bskahaner, tuesday18:30
mgedmindemo server: can we just apt-get install the ubuntu package and expose it to the web18:31
th1aWell, that's what I was wondering.18:31
th1aIt doesn't seem like we need the whole UML thing to demo a calendar.18:31
jintybskahan: as I say in doc/release-policy.txt, tomorrow in not necessarily an rc release, only a branch of the tree18:31
algath1a: cool, then it's easy18:32
th1aI mean, people might put bad words on it, but it doesn't seem like a security risk.18:32
* jinty hopes for livecd space18:32
th1ajinty:  we'll work something out.18:32
algajinty: are you sure you want it?..18:32
th1aI have obtained a box to use for a few test sites in the US.18:33
jintyThey are dead easy to make. I have had 0.9 ones sitting here for a couple of weeks18:34
th1aAre event descriptions going to be in the release.18:34
mgedminwe just have to add them to the event adding/editing forms18:35
mgedminshouldn't be difficult18:35
th1aDo Etria and POV need to coordinate on how we're going to do event booking?18:36
mgedmincan we squeeze event booking into 1.0?18:36
bskahanthe plan was for us to add it to the UI18:36
bskahanwas my understanding18:37
jintyI want, but I have to say no new features after branching18:37
* mgedmin has write access to that document...18:38
mgedminthere are some loose ends with event editing18:38
* jinty is forgetful and probably won't notice18:38
bskahanit falls under the obscure "bookings not working clause" in the policy18:39
mgedmindo we have to tie them up before the branch?18:39
jintywhat does it involve?18:39
mgedminadding text boxes for event descriptions18:39
mgedminfixing broken links in the weekly view18:39
jintyI can live with only changes to page templates18:39
jintyI don't think they are so risky18:40
mgedminhiding the event id in breadcrumbs18:40
mgedminmaking the form nice18:40
bskahanthose would all be considered 'bugs' wouldn't they?18:40
bskahannot 'new features'18:40
jintylet me see the code18:40
gintasclass EventBooking: pass # XXX doesn't work18:41
th1aWe don't need to force it.18:41
mgedminI guess my question is: do we work on loose ends today, or do we try to squeeze resource booking in at the last minute?18:43
th1amgedmin: So what's your opinion on this issue?18:43
th1aI say loose ends.18:43
algabu then, when will the booking be added?18:44
th1aI brought up event booking as a post-1.0 subject.18:44
gintasyeah, that's what I've been doing today, in a way18:44
th1aI mean, that's what I was thinking.18:44
th1aI'm kind of happy with 1.0 being extremely simple.18:44
mgedminso, resource booking, restive views, all-day events and timezones are postponed for SB 1.1?18:45
bskahanjinty: when are you going to branch18:45
mgedmin(I'm happy, as this gives us a chance to generalize resource booking into events that have several participants)18:45
th1aNobody will know they were supposed to be in 1.0 unless we tell them.  So keep it to yourself.18:46
jintybskahan: tomorrow, then i test, then rc18:46
* bskahan waits for someone to edit the IRC logs18:46
jintytesting can take a day or so...18:47
th1aWell, we all have work to do... anything else pressing?18:47
mgedminone question18:47
bskahannot for the meeting, I have an ACL question though18:48
mgedmintvon, bskahan: what else do you plan to commit to trunk before the release18:48
th1agood question.18:48
bskahancleanups based on your comments to previous commits18:48
tvonmgedmin: migration scripts18:48
mgedmindoes the preferences view work?18:49
bskahanthat's my ACL question18:49
bskahanit works as a zope principal manager18:49
tvonerm, if there is some magical alignment of the plants I might put in the browser/ portion of notes (mostly working in a WC here...)18:49
tvoner, planets, not plants18:50
bskahannot as a schoolbell user though18:50
tvonthough if plants aligned I'd be inspired18:50
mgedminput the cactus on the east side of the window sill18:50
bskahanso you can log in as a zope manager to change someones prefs for them to test the rendering prefs18:51
bskahannot really ideal though ;)18:51
mgedminbskahan, the preferences annotation object might need a __parent__18:51
mgedminotherwise the authentication mechanism might not find the user18:51
bskahanI'll try that18:51
th1aWhat's the status of notes for events?18:52
th1aOr notes in general?18:53
tvonI got a bit stuck with setting up the browser portion of notes (add/edit views) and time was pressing so I moved on to migration18:53
tvonthat, and I'm not sure where to stick them in the UI18:53
tvonSome of what bskahan did can be applied to notes though, and the framework for notes is there18:54
th1aOK, that's fine.  But I'd like you to work on them this week.18:54
tvonsure, its my next thing when migration is done18:54
bskahanif they're not exposed in the UI shoul the code for them be removed?18:55
th1aDoesn't seem like anyone cares.18:57
* mgedmin shrugs18:57
* th1a gavels the meeting closed.18:58
th1aI'm happy with where we are, guys.  Keep up the good work.18:59
algaI feel redeemed19:00
tvonI feel like I havent slept19:00
*** gintas has quit IRC19:01
* jinty is re-writing the credits section of the release notes, 19:01
tvonjust to double check, the import script will be running off an uninitialized Data.fs, right?19:02
jintybut is probably getting everything wrong....19:02
tvonmeaning, it wont exist..19:02
mgedmintvon, probably19:02
tvonthats what it does now...sets up all the goods19:02
mgedminactually, jinty should answer that question19:02
tvonjinty: import script is to be run before the 1.0 server is started..19:03
jintyyou mean that it must create the file?19:03
tvonData.fs, yes19:03
jintywhat are your command line args?19:04
tvonI have wrapper scripts.. but for export its " <0.9-data.fs> <outfile.xml> <calendar-directory>"19:04
tvonoutfile.xml is where the goods are dumped, and calendar-directory is a dir for holding everyones ics files19:05
tvonwhich is how events are being transferred...19:05
tvonbtw, is that okay?19:05
jintyyep, should be, except for the python path19:05
tvonoh, script sets pythonpath too, but it's hard-coded19:06
jintyhow do i tell the script where the libs are?19:06
tvonI can add an option somewhere, I wans't intending it for use outside of debian initially19:06
tvonthe import script takes <1.0-data.fs> <infile.xml>19:07
jintyplease, because the libs will not be in /var/lib/schoolbell19:07
mgedminit can be fixed by setting PYTHONPATH in the shell script that runs the importer19:08
tvonall arguments are required, do I need some sort of getopt setup or are you happy with just providing them in a specific order?19:08
jintyI'm happy, could you put a section in RELEASE/README explaining?19:09
tvondocstrings too19:09
jintyalso, just to be sure, the export script can use either 0.8 or 0.9 libs?19:10
tvonI've been keeping that in mind, but havent tested with 0.8 much19:10
tvonhrm, I suppose ACL needs to be migrated too...19:11
algatricky :-)19:11
algaI say don't bother19:12
tvongood man19:12
jintytvon, a lot of problems can be solved by documentation19:12
algaAlthough probably it's technically feasible19:12
tvon"There is no migration, thank you for your time.  -mgt"19:12
bskahan"do not drain reactor core"19:13
jintydo NOT press the big red button19:13
th1aAh, my iPod Shuffle just arrived.19:14
jintydoes it have a red button?19:15
tvonpush it!19:15
* tvon wonders if th1a's lack of response is at all related to the red button19:18
th1aAll the buttons are white.19:18
jintyreactor core then?19:19
mgedmin"Thank you for pressing the self-destruct button."19:20
bskahan"have a pleasant day"19:20
* jinty wonders what happened to the <calendar-directory> in between tvon's and import.py19:24
bskahanwhat, you wanted to keep your events?19:25
mgedmintea | nose > keyboard19:26
* jinty looks at ZServerSSL and cries19:35
jintymgedmin: you want to package the iCal parser separately in future? perhaps 1.1?19:43
* mgedmin shrugs19:44
jintypackage=> binary package installed in the standard python path19:45
jintyplant a flag in the python module namespace with icalendar19:47
SteveAi think mark would prefer it to be schoolbell.icalendar19:48
jintyjust a thought19:48
SteveAalso, if it ever got into the standard library, it would be good to have it as icalendar then19:48
SteveAso, as modules typically change a lot when they get assimilated into the std lib, it is better to have it in a different place19:48
SteveAso, you can run the "orginal" and "assimilated" versions in parallel19:49
jintymakes sense19:49
mgedmin+1 for schoolbell.icalendar19:49
* jinty doesn't know how it could work with schoolbell.icalendar in site-packages and schoolbell somewhere in /usr/lib/zope19:51
jintybut presumes there is an answer and is just talking19:52
SteveAthere is some magic that can do it, but it is a bit evil19:55
* jinty will have a look at how doko does it with zope.interface19:57
bskahanmgedmin: setting __parent__ fixed that problem20:05
* jinty 's agenda sometime:
*** jinty has quit IRC21:31
*** Aiste has quit IRC22:36
mgedminwaah I don't get the style/layout css split :/22:49
tvon|x31its dumb, feel free to merge them23:17
*** mgedmin has quit IRC23:43

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!