IRC log of #schooltool for Sunday, 2005-02-27

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* bskahan kicks adapters01:36
Sickbliaadapters don't buldge01:38
* mgedmin hears the sound of adapters snickering in the corner01:40
bskahanthey've been laughing at me all week01:44
bskahanPersonEditView in browser has zope.View permission in zcml02:10
bskahanis that correct?02:10
mgedminafaiu int the ideal zope3 world all views are zope.public and permissions are set on content objectd02:12
mgedminhowever view permissions also influence which menu items are shown and which are hidden02:12
mgedminso I think the edit view should be registered with the schoolbell.edit permission02:13
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bskahanis there an initial user for the server?02:24
bskahan(gandalf and mgr don't seem to work)02:26
Sickbliamanager:schoolbell ?02:27
* mgedmin nods02:28
mgedminbskahan, don't use z3schoolbell.py02:29
mgedminuse schoolbell-server.py02:29
mgedminz3schoolbell was a hacky feasibility study02:29
bskahanok, been using a zope instance02:29
mgedminI should remove it, but it contains a hack (resetdb.html) that might come in handy later02:29
mgedminif we want to run functional tests over http with a real server02:30
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jintyth1a hey!08:36
th1aHey.  Sorry I've been out of touch.08:36
th1aI could only get online on my mother in law's computer.08:36
th1aHow are things?  I haven't caught up on email yet.08:37
th1aI mean, the last day's email.08:37
jintyI think they are going well08:37
jintyI can imagine, when I think of mine08:38
jintyhow was the vacation?08:38
* jinty thinks some forced offline time can be good08:39
th1aIt wasn't a vacation as such.08:39
th1aI spent much of the time writing a proposal for a conference in July.08:39
th1aWhich mark emailed me about on Thursday.  The deadline is Monday.08:40
jintyam I still connected?08:41
* jinty kicks his IRC connection08:41
th1aI'm watching 28 Days Later.08:41
bskahanseen it before?08:41
* bskahan is a big fan08:41
th1aNo.  Now that I've been to London I can recognize the locations.08:42
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th1aI don't think he should go looking for cheeseburgers alone...08:43
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* jinty hates his IRC connection08:43
jintyalmost as much as plone08:44
th1aI spent some time re-reading the reports the foundation comissioned on the original Java version of SchoolTool.08:46
bskahanI had forgotten there was a java version08:47
th1aThere are copies of the reports lingering in the Google cache.08:47
jintystill! anything interesting in them?08:48
th1aWell, judging by the code review, they could have benefited from mgedmin's proof reading.08:49
jintyyes, recently he graced me with some of that. And to think english is my mother tongue08:50
jintyhelped a lot08:51
th1a:-)  I was referring to his code proof reading, but his English proof reading is pretty good too.08:51
th1aThe crux of the report:  The current SchoolTool software architecture is over-engineered for SchoolTool’s requirements.  In order to produce such a complex architecture while developing within an open source framework a number of immature and potentially unreliable products were used.  As a result, development speed has been hampered, application execution speed is slow and systems, once installed will require a high level of te08:53
th1aSomeone wrote some kind of Java code generation system called Xode, and then left.  Nobody else knew how it worked.08:54
jintyBy these metrics, how are we doing?08:58
jintya number -> no08:58
jintyimmature -> Zope3 (a little)08:59
jintypotentially unstable -> no08:59
th1aI think we're in much better shape now that we're on Zope 3, but the delays from using immature technologies are similar.08:59
th1aOur code is better.08:59
th1aThey had a lot of problems with JBoss, apparently.09:00
bskahandid the java system move beyond the platform to any applications?09:00
th1aThat's not clear.09:00
th1aKinda doesn't seem like it.09:01
th1aOne problem was they started designing it as an ASP application, then decided that it needed to be able to run in individual schools.09:01
th1aThat's part of the "over-engineering" problem.09:02
* jinty was not convinced about SchoolBell at first09:07
jintybut now I really like the idea of releasing part of the eventual functionality as a separate application09:07
jintyput it in the real world to show what it can do.09:08
th1aIt seems to be working out.09:08
th1aIt would have been cool if we had actually started that way...09:08
jintyperhaps we can continue.09:09
th1aWe're in the right spot now.09:11
* jinty has decided to go over to debconf09:12
th1aIn Finland?09:12
th1aI like Finland.09:12
jintyGot some good firends over there09:13
jintyHve you been?09:13
th1aI had a great time in Helsinki two years ago.09:14
jintyIf it was in the summer then I was there as well09:16
th1aIn August.09:16
jintyThen I was 2 months before you.09:17
bskahanafter reading the economist world factbook on finland I concluded its the best country to be a citizen of09:18
th1aThat's why I wanted to visit.09:18
jintyyou seen the alcohoism stats?09:19
bskahanno, high?09:19
jintyLived with a finn from way up north one who drank a bottle of vodka before going out.09:20
jintyHuge man, only did it because otherwise it was too expensive.09:21
th1aAnd they all lived happily ever after.09:40
th1aGood night.09:41
* jinty goes for coffee09:58
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