IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2005-02-18

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Tiranhey :)13:13
Tiranmgedmin: hello marius13:14
mgedminhi, Tiran13:14
TiranI've some questions about schoolbell, especially the ical parser part13:15
Tiranthe most important questions is: can I use it w/o zope3?13:16
mgedminyou should be able to13:16
mgedminI am not sure it will work out of the box13:16
mgedminit might try importing things like zope.interface13:16
mgedminschoolbell.calendar.icalendar module has a generic iCalendar parser13:17
mgedminand another function that converts generic VEvent objects into schoolbell.calendar.simple.CalendarEvent objects13:17
TiranWe are having a plone sprint next week and events, especially recurring events will be an important task13:17
Tiranschoolbell looks like a really good code base for some tasks13:19
mgedminI would like to hear your input13:19
mgedminso far schoolbell.calendar has only been used for schoolbell13:21
TiranAs far as I can remember Sid has already used parts of schooltool for his Calendaring product13:21
mgedminand launchpad13:21
mgedminalthough I'm not sure what's happening with the calendaring code in launchpad since I worked on it in December13:21
Tiranwhat's the license of schoolbell? gpl?13:22
mgedminGPL at the moment13:23
mgedminthere were plans to use a more liberal licence13:23
mgedminask th1a13:23
TiranDoes schoolbell support recurring events?13:24
mgedminnot the full power of iCalendar recurring events, though13:25
mgedminbut enough to support e.g. mozilla calendar's recurring events13:26
Tirannice :)13:26
TiranFYI: max from mxm is also working on an ical parser, see
TiranI'm going to bring up schoolbell in the discussion about events next week at the snow sprint13:29
mgedminthere are a *lot* of Python ical parsers these days :-/13:30
mgedminchandler folks are also working on one13:30
mgedminI'd much prefer if there was only one13:31
Tiranme, too13:31
TiranI don't like the way it goes13:31
mgedminwhen we started writing our own, we did not find an acceptable ical parser to use13:31
mgedminmostly for licencing reasons13:31
Tiranwe have py, zope2, zope3, cmf, at, cps and whatever implementations13:32
Tirana parser should be lgpl or bsdish13:32
* mgedmin nods13:34
mgedminunfortunatelly, I cannot choose a licence myself13:34
mgedminsince I'm being paid to write schooltool code13:34
mgedminand people who can proclaim a different licence for a spin-off library seem to be busy at the moment13:34
mgedminthere was a brief email discussion with chandler folks about combining our icalendar parsing efforts, but it doesn't appear to be going anywhere soon :-/13:35
mgedminalthough everyone agrees it would be a very good idea13:36
Tiranschooltool is paid by marc shuttleworth, isnt it?13:38
mgedminmark, yes13:40
Tiranmark likes plone and limi has a good connection to him13:42
* mgedmin wishes th1w was awake13:43
* mgedmin wishes th1a was awake13:43
Tiranare you coming to EP again?13:51
Tirannice :)13:56
TiranI hope I've time13:56
TiranIt was really funny last year with you, steve, aiste and bea13:56
mgedminWi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yer?14:17
mgedminCøme to EuroPython 2005!14:18
Tiransomehow the encoding is fu14:18
mgedmin%K/charset UTF-814:20
* mgedmin doesn't know how to say something that begins with a / in IRC14:20
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mgedminhi, th1a14:29
mgedminhi, th1a_, too14:29
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th1amgedmin;  OK.  I'm awake.16:06
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bskahanany ideas what might cause ForbiddenAttribute errors other than not being declared in an interface?19:04
mgedminlack of __parent__?19:07
mgedminalthought that cause Unauthorized instead of ForbiddenAttribute, I'm not sure19:08
* bskahan nods19:08
bskahanlack of parent sounds right, its something I can access in the interpreter but get a traverse or forbiddenattribute error in tal19:09
mgedminis this a functional test, or the real application?19:15
mgedminafaiu only local permission grants fail to work when you have an object without a __parent__19:16
mgedminfunctional tests explicitly use local grants to catch these errors19:16
mgedminif, however, you get an error in "real life", that is, in a browser; and you are logged in as a zope manager, then look for other causes19:16
bskahanthanks, it is in the browser19:18
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* bskahan does not grok adaters from the z3 tutorial20:34
bskahantvon|desk: still want the calendar portlets all in the left column?20:59
th1abskahan:  as opposed to?21:35
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bskahanas opposed to on the right side for day/week and on the top or bottom for month/year21:43
bskahanbut its a non-issue until there's an Actions menu section for calendars21:43
bskahan(well, I guess this is the action section)21:44
mgedminthere is one, I believe21:46
mgedminit has 'add event' in it21:46
bskahandon't think so, adding events is just on each hour21:53
bskahanwhere 'add all day event' will go is a question still21:53
mgedminI really think there should be an 'add event' action22:01
mgedminhourly links are just shortcuts22:01
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th1aI'd agree with that.22:15
bskahanI tend to disagree22:16
th1aActually let me throw out an unrelated concern, while I'm thinking about it.22:16
bskahanthe hourly link potentially cut a step out of the process, there's allready 9 or so of them22:16
th1aWhat?  9 steps?22:17
bskahanno, nine links that get you what "Add new event" gets you22:17
bskahanplus potentially reducing the number of steps by prechoosing start time22:17
th1aI think from a usability standpoint having an additional "Add New Event" link is a good idea.22:19
th1aUnless you also have an idea for a visual cue that clicking on the time will add a new event.22:19
th1aThat's idiomatic, but not inherently obvious.22:19
bskahannow that the icons can be removed (no booking link in there), the area that links to add_event can be a larger portion (preferably all) of each time cell, which would highlight on hover22:21
bskahanI'm not passionate about the difference, just my gut feeling22:21
bskahanwhen you get into text mode, and degraded browsers having an explicit add event link is probably required though22:22
th1aHere's a bigger issue I noticed when demoing SchoolBell for people at LinuxWorld.22:27
th1aPeople were generally impressed with the UI, by the way.22:28
th1aIt is too easy for afternoon events to scroll off the bottom of the screen.22:28
th1aThat is, empty morning hours take up too much space.22:28
bskahanthe height of an afternoon event shouldn't exceed the available hour cells22:29
bskahanoh, just off the computer screen?22:29
bskahanyeah, that annoys me in evolution22:30
th1aI just mean, if I have one appt. at 4:00, and I look at the day view, that event will generally be invisible until I scroll.22:30
bskahanI hate that22:30
th1aSo we should either telescope the empty hours, which might be tricky,22:30
th1aor have a summary of the day's events that is always visible.22:31
th1aBy "always" I mean, generally.22:31
bskahanwhat about the gmail feature, the little overlay in the corner with an arrow pointing down?22:31
th1aThere's a thought.22:31
bskahanto indicate that there's events off screen22:31
th1aThat would be nice.22:31
* tvon reads scrollback22:33
tvonthe corner overlay would be nice22:33
th1aI agree.22:34
bskahantricky though22:34
tvonbrowser window corner22:34
bskahanrequires js awareness of the calendar that we don't currently have22:34
tvonlower rightish22:34
* mgedmin is not getting it22:34
tvonmgedmin: want a gmail account? :)22:35
th1aThat's what I was going to say.22:35
mgedminI've got one already22:36
tvonbtw: as far as event adding links go, I'd be perfectly happy with an 'add event' button *only*, though the hourly links are a bit intuitive22:36
mgedminthanks anyway22:37
tvonmgedmin: when you read a gmail thread it has a little indicator in the lower left corner telling you ...mhm, either what mail you are currently looking at or who the next mail is by22:37
tvonI forget which22:37
tvonah, next22:37
bskahanmgedmin: sent you a screenshot showing it22:37
* mgedmin nods22:42
mgedmingoogle groups also has something like that, only on top-right22:42
* mgedmin is all for javascript that enhanced user experience, as long as it is optional and degrades gracefully22:42
tvonanother option would be some sort of general summary at the top somewhere saying something like "x events today" with some sort of other useful information22:43
tvon"x hours free..", I dunno...22:43
bskahanon the subject22:43
th1aIn the short term, a summary seems like it would be easy to add.22:43
bskahanth1a: can you create a wiki page on st.o for ui ideas that people can contribute too?22:44
bskahanI can't create wiki pages in my home folder there for some reason22:44
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