IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2004-08-24

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 24 12:28:02 2004
-->You are now talking on #schooltool12:28
---Topic for #schooltool is || IRC logs at
---Topic for #schooltool set by mgedmin at Fri Jul 16 18:15:52 200412:28
-TomLogging-This channel is logged -
-->thisfred ( has joined #schooltool12:35
-->jinty (~jinty@ has joined #schooltool14:20
-->alga ( has joined #SchoolTool15:18
<--jinty (~jinty@ has left #schooltool15:42
---You are now known as mg|lunch16:31
-->th1a ( has joined #schooltool16:47
th1aalga: I just responded to your email about default acls.16:48
algathanks, I responded back :-)17:09
th1aBy default, any personal info should be very locked down.17:13
algathe thing is the story includes delegating manager rights17:14
th1aFor calendars.17:14
th1aBut private by default.17:14
th1aI'm still a little confused about what you're asking.17:15
algait was I who was confused17:15
algaI found a sentence "A manager should be able to delegate the manager role for a group or resource." in the story17:16
th1aRight.  17:16
algaand went pulling the ACLs over all views, such as members of a group, etc.17:16
th1aUltimately that needs to be done, but perhaps not now.17:17
algaso the story only includes calendar access?17:17
algain that case, the manager permission will mean ability to edit the ACL, that is to grant other users rights to the calendar one is managing17:18
th1aThe idea is that...17:19
th1athe SchoolTool manager should be able to make the Librarian...17:20
th1athe manager of the Library resource, for example.17:20
th1aNow, we don't want the Librarian to be able to make further delegations.17:20
algawhat would being a manager of the library allow?17:21
th1aOr perhaps it is not so important that the Librarian be able to manage the Library itself, but the groups associated with it.17:21
th1aOr deleting events.17:22
algabut managing groups is adding/removing members17:22
algaso, does that go into this story?17:22
th1aSo the SchoolTool manager would set it up so that there was, say, a "Library Staff" group, but the Librarian would be able to add and remove people from the "Library Staff" group.17:23
th1aI think we're refining the story.17:23
th1aSimplifying it, really.17:24
alganow, the title of the story is "Resource/Group calendar management"17:24
algathe question is: is it really just about calendars?17:24
th1aInsofar as I can't think of why we need to delegate manager privileges for resources.17:24
algayour current answer is: no17:24
algaSetting up access to calendars is pretty much done.17:25
algaall I have to do is implement the same in the restive views.17:26
th1aWhen we were making up these stories, we weren't thinking about access control to other parts of the system.17:26
th1aSo I don't want to add that to your work.17:27
th1aI'd consider that outside the scope of the current milestone.17:28
algaIf we limit 'manager permission' to 'adding/removing members', that's easy17:28
th1aIt makes it all much cleaner.17:28
algathe problem is that there's a lot of thing a manager can do via the restive interface17:28
th1aFrom our end at least...17:28
th1aI spent some time with the app last night.  17:29
th1aThere's one significant issue with the timetable schema generation.17:30
th1aIf you are setting up a timetable schema that doesn't correspond to days of the week,17:31
th1ai.e., a sequential time table,17:32
th1aThen when you are defining the start end end times for the period, you shouldn't have the days of the week across the top row,17:33
th1aBut the days in the cycle.17:33
algawell, it's the way our timetabling is17:33
algaSteve heard on the list from someone from the States,17:34
algaprobably you,17:34
algathat it is possible, that Wednesdays, for example,17:34
algaare always shorter that other days17:34
algaall periods are shorter to allow for some event in the afternoon17:35
th1aI'll probably change the text on the page to make it clearer.17:35
th1aForgot about my own weird edge case.17:36
th1aSo right now, if you don't have a weird schedule with periods of different lengths on different days, you have to enter the same times monday through friday.17:37
algaI guess so17:37
algaMarius was programming the wizard17:37
algaso I can't tell if there's any magic in it17:38
th1aWhich is very good, overall.17:38
algaI'm glad to hear that17:38
algaMarius was quite inspired while doing it, too17:38
th1aSo "time period" refers to a block of time like a semester?17:39
th1aIs "semester" used internationally?17:39
algawell, in Russia, they have quarters17:40
algaquadrimesters :-)17:40
algain lithuania, we have trimesters17:40
algasemesters are only used in colleges and universities17:40
th1aDo they call them "quadrimesters" in Russia?17:40
alga"chetvert'", which is Russian for "quarter"17:41
algain russia, they are delimited by vacations17:41
alga1 Sep - fall vacation17:41
th1aBut the meaning of "semester" is at least recognized in English?  "Time Period" is a bit too abstract.17:41
algawell, time periods can be semesters, but also can be the whole year, if the schedule is the same, etc17:42
th1aOK.  I'll think about terminology.17:42
algaif you say that schedules are universally produced for semesters, they can be semesters17:42
algaour timetabling is quite abstract, but it gets clearer if there are examples17:43
alga"Time periods (such as semesters)"17:43
th1aTim has a bunch of examples of crazy timetables, I need to sit down and see how many of them we can actually model.17:44
algaSteve should have done that last autumn17:45
algaUnfortunately, he didn't have all those examples :-)17:45
algaBy the way17:45
th1aWell, we're pretty dependent on people chiming in with examples, and it just so happened that Tim did a ton of research for his own app.17:45
algawe have two models implemented17:45
th1aI think it is good.17:46
algabut arbitrarily crazy models can be defined in python code17:46
algathey get a schoolday calendar and have to generate a calendar17:46
th1aApparently is is pretty common in California to have, within one school and one student's schedule, half the classes running on a semester schedule and half running on a trimester schedule.17:47
algatheir inner workings can be arbitrary17:47
th1aI'd never heard of that.17:47
algaha, we can easily accomodate the Californian example :-)17:49
th1aOh.  Good.  17:50
algajust define several parallel time periods, and several timetable schemas17:50
th1aI need to sit down and make a few schemas.17:51
algaby the way, we're close to the finish17:52
th1aSeems that way.17:52
algait's time to think what has to be generalized for the release17:52
th1aIn terms of a non-school release?17:52
algado we make just a schoolbell release now?17:52
th1aThere are just a few changes in terminology necessary.17:53
th1aAlso, should this be SchoolBell 0.1?17:53
th1aWe need to start having release numbers.17:53
th1aSchoolBell 0.1 makes sense to me.17:53
algainternally, milestone 6 is written down as version 0.617:53
algain the server version string, for instance17:54
th1aSo SchoolBell 0.8?17:54
alga2.1 :-)17:54
th1aSorry more American football references.17:54
th1aDid you watch that basketball game on Friday?17:56
th1aUS v. Lithuania.17:56
algaerm, no, but I heard about it in real time17:56
th1aI'm losing track of the days.17:56
algaI was at hairdresser's, and I actually have drawn her off the TV screen17:57
algaI'm not a big fan of basketball17:57
algaI like individual sports better17:57
algabut, what's "Hut!".  WordNet, Webster, Everything2 and Wikipedia are of no help17:58
th1aWhen the quarterback want the ball handed to him to start a play he calls out some signals, which may be a series of numbers "7, 8, 21" then "hut" when he wants the ball.17:59
algaIf we consider this release useful in practice, it makes sense to call it version 1.018:02
---You are now known as mgedmin18:05
th1aWell, by free software standards, there are lots of useful applications that aren't at 1.0.18:06
th1aWe're more like FireFox 0.7 than Windows 1.018:06
th1aWe're going to need to have a meeting at some point to discuss the schedule going forward.18:10
th1aI'm going to fly down to Baltimore next Friday to meet with the guys from Etria and decide if they'd be a good second team.18:11
algacurious :-)18:17
mgedminregarding the timetable schema creation form18:18
mgedminI had a couple of ideas18:18
mgedminto make the time definition less tedious18:18
mgedminone idea was a text box at the bottom defining the period length18:18
mgedminso that the user could enter just "9:00", "10:00" etc. in the input boxes18:19
mgedminthat is, starting times18:19
th1aThat would be helpful in most cases.18:19
mgedminanother idea was a button to copy monday's periods to all other days (except weekends)18:19
th1aThat would almost always be helpful.18:19
mgedminbecause I think they will usually be the same, except for some corner cases18:19
mgedminthen I thought that I should talk about this on irc before implementing those shortcuts18:20
mgedminas I'm biased towards Lithuanian timetabling conventions18:20
th1aJust make sure it isn't difficult to add a couple periods of odd length, like homeroom and lunch.18:20
mgedminand thought it possible that other shortcuts might make more sense18:20
mgedminI think it is best if the user can enter either "HH:MM-HH:MM" or just "HH-MM"18:21
mgedminthat is, individual periods can always be of a different length18:21
th1aDid you define some widgets for the timetable schema pages that can be reused elsewhere?18:22
mgedminyes 18:23
th1aCool.  18:23
mgedminI defined the simple text edit widgets that are used for entering the name at the very top18:23
mgedminthe rest -- all those matrices -- is custom code18:23
mgedminI do not think it is very reusable18:23
mgedmin(other than looking at it and perhaps copying/pasting)18:23
mgedminin general, it has a very specific purpose18:24
mgedminand I though that trying to force it into a widget-like shape would be counter-productive18:24
th1aYeah.  It is a very particular little task.18:24
mgedminth1a: did you read yesterday's irc log?18:25
th1aOh, no I didn't.18:25
mgedminthe bit about the change of the REST FAQ18:25
mgedminthe schooltool website needs to be updated to point to the new location of the faq18:25
algath1a: one more question about default ACLs18:26
algaare you sure group calendars have to be editable by the group members?18:27
algait looks weird if you think about large groups, like Pupils18:27
th1aI suppose not.18:27
algaso, publically viewable, editable by managers18:27
th1aSince groups can be such vastly different things, I guess they need to be restrictive by default.18:28
th1amgedmin: the link to the REST wiki was only in the source, but I'll add it to the website now.18:32
mgedminI assumed it was on the website18:32
---Disconnected ().18:49
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 24 18:49:36 2004
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 24 20:55:01 2004
-->You are now talking on #schooltool20:55
---Topic for #schooltool is || IRC logs at
---Topic for #schooltool set by mgedmin at Fri Jul 16 18:15:52 200420:55
-TomLogging-This channel is logged -
<--Aiste has quit (
<--thisfred has quit ("Farewell, cruel channel...")21:09
-->Aiste ( has joined #schooltool21:12
mgedminth1a: I've updated the timetable schema form as discussed23:12
<--alga has quit ("leaving")23:41

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!