IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2015-09-08

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replaceafillhey th1a17:30
th1ahi replaceafill.17:30
th1aHow's it going?17:31
replaceafilli went over the authority17:31
replaceafillthe blueprints authority17:31
replaceafilli estimated streams yesterday17:31
replaceafill3 days17:31
replaceafilli think it's a bit "loose?"17:32
replaceafillbut enough17:32
replaceafillfor the feedback loop, etc17:32
replaceafilland i started on it17:32
replaceafilli assume she'll want it anyway17:32
th1aOK.  Yeah.17:32
replaceafilli also added a new blueprint17:32
replaceafillto record the packaging work17:32
replaceafillit's usually 1 day17:33
replaceafillso i estimated it like that17:33
replaceafillwell, we say it's 1 day17:33
replaceafillbut in reality it takes more...17:33
replaceafillwith all the updates, fixes etc17:33
replaceafilli also created a diagram for the mobile app data model17:33
replaceafillwhat was that program we used once17:34
replaceafillto chart relationships17:34
replaceafilland stuff17:34
replaceafillthat's for UI mocking17:34
replaceafillah, i'll check that17:34
replaceafillmaybe it's worth to create a diagram for tomorrow's meeting17:35
th1aOne of the things that got me the job with SchoolTool was probably a script I wrote using dataviz that introspected and charted objects in SchoolTool's data model.17:35
replaceafillinstead of me just explaining (and getting everybody confused)17:35
th1aTurned out to be way easier than actually DEVELOPING in Zope 3...17:36
replaceafilltoday i checked my notes17:36
replaceafilland noticed the importer bug17:36
replaceafilli'm taking care of that17:36
th1aAh, right.  OK.17:37
replaceafilland about streams17:37
replaceafilli guess someday they'll land in core, right?17:37
replaceafilli mean17:37
replaceafillthey're not rising specific17:37
replaceafillor ark specific even17:37
replaceafillthey can land in their ST core branch17:37
th1aYes, they'll end up in core.17:37
replaceafilli started adding them to rising until i wrote the key for the annotation :S17:38
replaceafill'', wait a minute!17:38
replaceafillthis should go core!17:38
replaceafilli plan to have some UI for tomorrow for her to see17:39
replaceafillif we meet17:39
replaceafillprobably not the relationship views yet17:39
replaceafillbut at least the landing page, search area, etc17:39
replaceafillthat's it  from me17:39
replaceafillabout the importer bug17:40
replaceafilli was thinking we should evolve people with 2 active levels17:40
replaceafillcool, i'll add that17:41
replaceafillthat's it from me17:41
th1aOK, I have a data model issue.17:41
th1aI'm going to start with mocking up the new timed attendance.17:42
th1aFirst off, should I be thinking of this as just once a day or am/pm?17:42
th1aDid we reach a conclusion about that?17:42
replaceafillflexible option17:42
th1aOK, so yes.17:42
th1aOK, so we currently just have the time of the change which we store automatically, but there is no other time data for attendance, right?17:43
replaceafilldefine "time of the change"17:44
replaceafillyou mean, evaluation metadata?17:44
th1aWell, I mean this is a blank slate currently, right.17:44
th1aOther than tracking the time of the evaluation.17:44
replaceafillsorry, i'm not following you17:45
replaceafilli'm not sure if you're talking about the date of the "period"17:45
replaceafillor the datetime the evaluation was recorded17:45
th1aNow we're going to need to track arrival time and leaving time explicitly.17:46
th1aWhich we have not done before?17:46
th1aSo, while we are at it, we should probably also deal with coming and going multiple times in the day.17:46
th1aWhich is not that odd a case, if you have any kind of appointment during the day.17:46
th1aSo probably we need a list?17:47
th1aOr we could just limit you to three comings and goings (seems like enough).17:48
replaceafillit's kind of the same issue we have with comments, right?17:48
th1aNot really.17:48
replaceafillif you come and go, etc17:48
replaceafillisn't that history?17:48
th1aWell, could be.17:48
replaceafillyou're changing the current evaluation17:48
replaceafillin my head17:48
replaceafillto me it's a similar problem17:49
th1aYeah, ok.17:49
replaceafillannotating current evaluation17:49
replaceafillnot sure if it'll fly17:49
replaceafillbut that's how i'd start17:49
th1aOK, that helps actually.17:49
th1aI'll work on the mockup.17:50
th1aThanks replaceafill.17:50
replaceafillthanks th1a17:50
th1aayt replaceafill.21:16
replaceafillhey th1a21:36
replaceafilljust got back21:36
th1aJust contemplating more of the implications of this attendance change.21:37
th1aFirst I thought about the whole thing as a rather fundamental reworking of attendance, to be more like a stream of events.21:39
th1aWhich would be too much time and not really what we wanted.21:39
th1aBut it sort of sends you down that path.21:39
th1aAnyhow, then I did a sort of table of which states change into which other states meaningfully.21:40
th1aWhich need times, which would only be corrections.21:40
th1aThis is also... kind of complicated, obviously.21:40
replaceafilli think you're overthinking it21:41
th1aWell, not if we were starting from scratch.21:41
th1aBut yes, in this context.21:41
th1aDo you think we should just hard wire in fields for a student leaving and returning once per day/half day?21:42
replaceafillwhy is that necessary?21:43
replaceafillto record the leaving then returning back?21:43
replaceafilllet's call AM/PM periods for now21:43
replaceafillthey're two separate periods21:43
replaceafilland some schools will only use one21:43
replaceafillafaik Fran is not interested in history of the same period21:44
replaceafillshe's only interested in the most recent score/evaluation for it21:44
th1aI'm just interested in calculating time.21:44
th1aI mean, that's all we *really* need to do.21:45
th1aIf you select "absent-left early" you get two more optional fields for left and returned.21:46
replaceafillwhy is the returned one necessary?21:47
replaceafilli mean, why two?21:47
replaceafillif you're late, you get "time of arrival"21:48
th1aI'm just saying it seems like it is a common case.21:48
replaceafilli'm not sure *they* need it21:48
th1aI mean, more common than it seems on first blush.21:48
th1aOK, if it is just a second field, it isn't a big deal.21:48
replaceafillto me it should be like this:21:49
replaceafillwe're going to have a AM/PM setting, right?21:49
replaceafillto active one or both periods21:49
replaceafillin that screen i'd set start/end times for both periods21:49
replaceafilland just calculate against that21:49
replaceafillif you're late21:50
replaceafillcalculate time of arrival vs ending time of the period21:50
replaceafillif you leave early, time you left vs starting time21:50
replaceafillor whatever :D21:50
th1aThe thing is if you base it mostly around setting times and try to imply the codes, I think it gets more confusing.21:51
replaceafillwhy imply the codes?21:52
replaceafillthe code should enable the fields, right?21:52
replaceafillif you set someone as Absent - Sick21:52
th1aOK, I didn't think you meant htat.21:52
replaceafillyou don't get a time field (annotation)21:52
replaceafillonly present - late21:53
replaceafilland left early will21:53
replaceafillit's dumb21:53
replaceafillit probably has flaws21:53
replaceafillbut that was my first thought21:53
th1aNo, that's fine.21:53
th1aI think that's sufficient.21:53
th1aBut I'd just like to also let you return if you leave early.21:53
th1aIt is just one more number.21:53
replaceafillto me you could do it with history21:54
replaceafillbut it's way trickier21:54
replaceafillok, student comes back21:54
replaceafillyou overwrite the left early score21:54
th1aWell, yeah, I was marching down that path for a while but it is too much of a complicated change.21:54
th1aThat's not what I mean.21:54
th1aWhen you select present, left early, you just get two extra fields instead of one.21:55
th1aIf they come back it is still present left early, but you know they came back for a certain amount of time.21:55
replaceafillwhat i was going to say21:55
replaceafillafter you overwrite21:56
replaceafillwith present21:56
replaceafillyou get again the time field enabled21:56
replaceafillto me, the evaluation just needs a "time" field21:56
replaceafillwhat we do with it is our issue21:56
replaceafilla "left early" followed by a "present" could be considered in a specific way21:57
replaceafillbut i haven't thought of it21:57
replaceafillto me it's not necessary for Fran21:57
replaceafillwe can ask21:57
replaceafilldid you get the idea from talking to her?21:57
th1aSo basically we're using the same time field we've always had but setting it explicitly to what the user specifies rather than clock time.21:57
replaceafilloh no21:58
replaceafilli'd annotate the score21:58
th1aWell, it just a question of how complicated storing one datetime actually is.21:58
replaceafilli'd keep the evaluation timestamp21:58
replaceafillthat gives you when you scored it21:59
replaceafillnot what it represents21:59
replaceafillwhat it represents for the user goes into the annotation21:59
th1aOK... I'm just saying have a second annotation for the left early case.22:00
th1aIf that is throwing everything into a mess, I can drop it.22:00
replaceafillnot really22:00
replaceafillas you say, it's just an extra field22:00
replaceafillthe whole annotating the evaluation object can get into a mess and whe don't know yet22:01
replaceafill(i don't think it will btw)22:01
replaceafilltime1 and time2 attributes :D22:01
replaceafillthese will be times btw22:02
th1aYes, ok.22:02
replaceafillnot datetimes22:02
th1aThanks replaceafill.22:02
replaceafillok, thanks th1a22:02
* replaceafill goes to get lunch22:02

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