IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2012-12-05

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replaceafillhhmm, menesis i'm getting an error trying to build a gradebook sandbox:16:18
replaceafillError: Couldn't install: schooltool 2.3.2dev-r351916:18
* replaceafill tries buildout -vvv16:18
replaceafillerror: None16:20
menesisI have uploaded an updated versions.cfg16:21
menesissomething can be broken16:21
menesisworks for me, but..16:21
replaceafillis there a way to get the old versions.cfg?16:23
replaceafillor should i try to debug this16:24
replaceafilli pinned down schooltool to 2.3.1 and it's downloading more packages now16:26
th1aHi replaceafill, menesis, aelkner, yvl, mobert.16:31
yvlgood morning16:31
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
th1aSo... we have a build problem?16:32
replaceafilli was able to get my sandbox working using schooltool 2.3.116:33
replaceafillit didn't work with 2.3.2dev16:33
menesisI am testing16:35
menesisbut is slow16:35
th1aOK, so we'll sort it out.16:36
th1aWould you like to go ahead, replaceafill?16:36
replaceafillso, i'm still working on the projects view for students16:36
replaceafillit works, but i'm finishing the stest16:37
replaceafilli'm also testing this:16:37
replaceafillit's a question from Chile about custom score systems16:37
replaceafilli want to confirm that the average calculation is not rounding correctly16:38
replaceafillthe user reports he's getting values like 5.87516:38
replaceafillwhen he expects 5.916:38
replaceafillalso, glenda was able to replace her demo database with the one i fixed16:39
th1aaelkner:  This is for rounding discrete score systems -- we might fix this next.16:39
replaceafillaelkner, i have a question here16:40
replaceafillcan you jump into the new verso xls thread16:40
replaceafilli'm waiting on your confirmation to update dwelsh server16:40
aelkneri'm already there, i was going to ask you to do the same16:40
replaceafilland import the appropriate skill16:40
aelknerwhat's that?16:41
th1aaelkner:  Is there some way our new script can append a version number to the title of files it creates?16:41
replaceafilli mean, is it the file glenda sent you the one i should use?16:41
replaceafill(and the rest of the sites)16:41
aelknerreplaceafill, my understanding is that they ran the script to create new_verso_skills.xls16:42
aelknerthen imported that to their own site and confirmed that the labels sorted correctly16:43
aelkneryou, ofc, had to give them updated code to sort the gradebook by label16:43
aelknerif they have that code and have imported the new_verso_skills.xls file into their arlington instance16:43
aelknerand all is well, then they should make new_verso_skills.xls be the current verso_skills.xls file16:44
aelknerthat they publish for all to download, import16:44
replaceafillmaybe you should tell that to glenda?16:44
aelkneri already have, more than once16:44
replaceafilli think she's waiting on your confirmation16:44
aelknernot for a couple weeks16:44
replaceafilli think she's confused by this16:45
replaceafillso am i :D16:45
aelknermaybe you could explain it better than i can, i already tried16:45
aelknerdo you understand what i'm saying?16:45
aelknerit's tiresome to keep saying something that seems to fall on deaf ears16:46
aelknerperhaps she'll listen to you and get that file to be live16:46
aelknerthen i can send the new script that matches on external skillset id which is safer16:46
replaceafilli think that's the part that makes it confusing aelkner16:47
th1aI think the problem is that they don't have numbers.16:47
replaceafillit seems like they still need to run something on the xls16:47
th1aSo maybe we should just start that right now.16:47
aelknerreplaceafill, the cte data will change on the site from time to time, i don't know when or why16:47
aelknerit is at that time that they may want to run the script again16:47
th1aWhichever is the correct, current file needs to be called verso_skills_1_0_0.xls16:48
th1aAnd your script needs to increment that when it modifies it.16:48
replaceafillhow would you detect changes? based on past versions?16:48
replaceafillbut nm :)16:48
th1aYou take the previous file as an input.16:49
aelknerno, don't nm, you need to understand this16:49
aelknerand perhaps suggest a better way as th1a is trying to do with file names16:49
aelknerth1a, i'm not sure what is best here16:49
th1aAlso we should probably slip version and timestamp info into the sheet itself somewhere.16:49
aelknerthe current version of the script takes cte db + verso_skills.xls and output new_verso_skills.xls16:50
aelkneri'm not sure what you are asking for16:50
aelknerperhaps this:16:50
th1aLike, just a cell that has version and timestamp info (when it was created).16:50
aelknera cell, not the filename16:51
th1aI don't want the timestamp in the filename.16:51
th1aToo long.16:51
th1aBut I think the only problem is that we're not saying right now:16:51
th1aNobody knows which file is which.16:52
replaceafillthat's why i'm expecting from aelkner16:52
replaceafilli have no idea about the right file to use16:52
aelkneri don't see how putting a version number on the file tells one what the right file is16:52
th1aAlso nobody knows who knows which file is right.16:52
th1aWell... there is a reason we give all these other files version numbers.16:53
aelknerexplain to me how you see a version number helping them know what the right file is16:54
th1aThen you can refer to it by its version number.16:54
th1aaelkner:  Do you have the correct, current file that VA CTE should be using?16:55
aelknerlook, they created the current file themselves, so they have ut16:56
aelknerthey need to know where their head is when they leave the house16:56
aelknerwhen i delivered the version of the script that extracts the external ids to the xls file16:57
aelknerthey ran it, creating new_verso_skills.xls16:57
aelknerthey are the ones who know where that file is16:57
aelknerwhen they see fit to make it live, they should do so16:57
replaceafillaelkner, glenda sent you a file yesterday, asking:16:57
replaceafill"Can you confirm that this verso_skills file is the latest, correct file to post? It's the most recently dated file I have and it seems to be correct after updating my demo instance."16:57
replaceafillcan you just reply to that?16:58
replaceafillYES or... NO (this file is missing etc etc)16:58
aelknersure, i can say yes to that email16:58
th1aJust double check that it is in fact correct.16:59
replaceafillmaybe after that they'll publish it in their template directory and that'll become the "official" one :)16:59
aelknerright, that's what they should do16:59
th1aI do want you to add version numbering to the script though.16:59
th1aFor future revisions.16:59
aelknerthat breaks the script17:00
aelknerthe script looks for verso_skills.xls and cte data and outputs new_verso_skills.xls17:00
aelknerwhat would the new logic be?17:00
aelkneri was starting to try and guess what you want here:17:00
aelknerscan all files that match verso_skills_*.xls17:01
aelknerfigure out which one is the largest number17:01
th1aComputers are good at that kind of thing.17:01
aelknerplease don't interrupt17:01
aelkneruse that file as import file17:01
th1aIt is impossible to interrupt on IRC.17:01
th1aJust keep typing.17:02
aelknerinstead of creating new_verso_skills.xls, it creates verso_skills_(higher version number).xls17:02
aelknerthen the next time it runs, it finds that file by virtue of it having the highest version number17:02
aelknerand creates the newer, higher versioned verso_skills_(version number).xls17:03
replaceafilli'd download the input file from their central template directory, that should be the "current" one17:03
aelknerreplaceafill, that's what i've been assuming, th1a wants to change that17:04
replaceafilli can see the user having an outdated file in the directory17:04
replaceafillor force the user to specify --input foobar.xls17:04
aelknerexactly, having all these versioned file around only adds confusion17:04
th1aUntil you have a problem.17:04
th1aThen you can't confirm what version of what anyone used.17:04
aelknerforcing them to specify command line option will probably cause more confusion17:04
aelkneri really thought that what i had done was the most effective way17:05
aelknerthey need to tell the script what is the live file17:05
aelkneri figured by making whatever they considered live as verso_skills.xls17:05
th1aIt is a minor point, but hardly out of the ordinary for software.17:05
aelknerthen the script creates the new_verso_skills.xls which they can throw out if they like17:05
aelknerand they can keep running the script and creating new_verso_skills.xls ntikl they like it17:06
aelknerthen they can make it live17:06
th1aaelkner:  They need version numbers.  They really do.17:06
aelknerwell, if i do change the script to use highest versioned file and create new higher version file17:07
aelknerit can still crash in the cte download phase and restart without creating the new versioned file17:07
aelknerand then pick up where it left off downloading until that is done17:07
aelknerthen, when it gets to the xls generation part, it can create th new versioned file from the current high version17:08
aelknerof course, if they get rid that file for some reason, or otherwise don't know to keep it around17:08
aelkneror to have it around when they run the script again, i guess they'll have the same problem they17:09
aelknercurrently have, but whatever17:09
aelknerhere's the thing though17:09
aelknerlet's say they create verso_skills_1.0.0.xls17:10
aelknerthen they run it again against the cte db which now has removed some skillsets and added some17:10
aelknerbut they do so outside of the directory that has the versioned file17:11
aelkneri mean, it's difficlt to state the problem17:11
th1aYes, we can't guarantee that they won't create duplicates if they change directories.17:12
aelknerthat's the thing, if we just let them run the script from any directory whenever they want17:12
aelknerthey could run into a situation where external ids don't match to skillset ids17:13
th1aWe can't make it foolproof.17:13
aelkneri was trying to make it as foolproof as possible by simply telling them they have to run it against live data17:13
aelknerso that the results, new_verso_skils.xls would always be correctly derived from live file17:14
aelknerthe simple step of them renaming the new file to live filename kind of made it reliable to run to get yet a newer version17:15
th1aWell, what if they ran it against the wrong file?17:15
aelknerthere is potential danger there17:15
th1aLook, aelkner, this is inherently a bit kludgy.17:15
aelkneri was trying to keep it as simple as possible17:16
th1aI think it is safer if we at least try to provide sane version numbers.17:16
aelkneri think what is needed is a good business procedure, version  numbers don't create that17:17
aelknerbut i can make the script work with the versioned files if you want17:17
aelknerbtw, the first time, if it finds verso_skills.xls (no version) and no other verso_skills_(version).xls files17:17
th1aaelkner:  It is EXTREMELY LIKELY that down the road the individual sites are going to get out of sync with these files.  If they all have the same name, it is going to be a nightmare to figure out which one someone has.17:18
th1aEspecially if VA CTE's script has overwritten all the previous versions on their server.17:18
aelknersee that's the thing, it shouldn't matter what version of the file they use17:18
aelkneras long as they download from the directory what the cte folks consider the live file17:19
th1aLet's table this.17:19
aelknerthen any time that file changes, it will be safe to download17:19
aelknerbecause they will have updated it themselves17:19
th1aPlease send a reply to Glenda this morning.17:19
aelknerthe users outin the field don't need to know17:19
replaceafillok, i'll update dwelsh server after glenda makes the new file public in the templates directory17:20
* replaceafill done17:20
aelkneri think i need to have a hangout with them to see what they would prefer to do17:20
th1aThanks replaceafill.17:20
aelknerthey are the ones that need to do this, so they should decide17:20
th1aEveryone seems busier this time of year.17:20
th1aSo hanging out is more difficult.17:20
th1aOK, menesis?17:20
menesisI only worked on zope packages17:21
menesisfinished with updating versions and pushed them17:22
menesisto flourish/versions.cfg that all your sandboxes use17:22
menesisworks for me, I fixed one problem that buildbot uncovered17:23
menesisbut replaceafill had a build fail in gradebook. no such problem for me17:23
menesiscan you try again without version pins?17:24
menesislooked at what was done to zope recently17:25
menesisbut am gonna stop at that17:25
menesisunless someone else needs python 3 compatible zope packages17:26
menesis(not us)17:26
replaceafillmenesis, same result:
menesisnothing else to say.17:27
th1aI noticed the post about some Python 3 progress.17:27
menesisth1a, replaceafill: you want schooltool.quiz package?17:28
th1aSooner or later, yes.17:28
menesisand you want cando and ldap plugins in ubuntu archive?17:29
th1aOh, yes.17:29
menesisthey are only in the ppa17:29
replaceafillmenesis, not on my part, jelkner is the only one using it at this point and he's running off branches17:29
replaceafillmenesis, i deleted /home/replaceafill/.buildout/cache/dist/schooltool-2.3.2dev-r3519.tar.gz and i'm trying again17:30
menesisbut the quiz is usable? seems to be working but I only played a bit17:30
replaceafillit is17:30
replaceafilli'd wait for th1a to see it ;)17:31
replaceafillmenesis, it worked!17:31
replaceafillafter deleting the file in cache17:31
replaceafillno idea what happened there17:31
menesismaybe a timeout from schooltool.org17:31
th1aIt isn't an immediate priority -- I don't expect it to be in 13.04 universe.17:32
replaceafillthanks menesis, i can continue now17:32
menesisbut both cando and ldap17:32
menesisand the book?17:33
th1aAh... yes.17:33
th1aSometime next year we'll work on adding links to the book from the app itself.17:33
menesisI have started packaging the book that but don't remember why I left it unfinished17:34
menesisprobably I copied an example with pdf format17:34
menesisbut schooltool book doesn't look right in pdf17:35
th1aThat would be a whole project.17:35
menesisvery large as well17:35
th1aIt has too many screenshots.17:35
th1aOK, anything else?17:36
menesisthat's all I wanted to ask17:37
th1aOK, thanks menesis.17:37
yvlwell, work in progress17:38
yvlwas a slow Tue, so only did the subtables17:39
yvlI also remembered that I'll need to look into rendering pdf's as background processes17:40
th1aAt this point I should start noting that we'll want to wrap this up in a sane place for the holidays.17:41
yvlbackground processes part is just a thing to keep in mind17:41
yvlafter reports are done, they won't be automatically converted to background reports17:42
th1aYes... that might be a separate post-Christmas task.17:42
th1aIt is on my list though.17:42
yvlI should be done with gradebook prototype Fri / Mon17:43
th1aAh, great.  Looking forward to it.17:44
yvlafter that we'll have two weeks to bake some reports17:44
yvl(before holidays)17:44
th1aAh, good.17:45
yvlbtw, I could do "dev. support" then17:45
yvland work on...17:45
yvlsay, margin / page size dialogs and so on17:45
th1aThere will be plenty that comes up, I'm sure.17:45
th1aOK, sounds good.17:46
th1aThanks yvl.17:47
aelknerok, so i'm going to do a hangout with replaceafill after the meeting to work out the getverso kinks17:47
aelknerbut otherwise, i have made some good progress with the report sheet average tasks17:48
aelkneri added the annotations to the ReportSheet object and the get and set category weights17:49
aelknerand added a Settings linkset with Category Weights link to the ReportSheet context17:49
aelknerand that version of the view works well17:50
aelkneri then added the copy of category weights to the deployment logictested the deployment of the report sheets and the wei17:50
aelknerweights got deployed17:51
aelkneri changed the canAverage method in worksheets to always return True17:51
aelknerno longer will we limit deployed report sheets in that fashion17:51
aelknerand had fix a number of tests that assumed that no such columns appear17:52
aelknerfinally, i tested out entering some values and noted that the average calculated correctly17:52
aelknertaking into account the weights that were set up in the template17:52
aelknerin other words, the deployment and average calculation works well17:52
aelknernext step is to add average to report card layout17:53
th1aLet me know when you can walk me through the whole process.17:53
aelkneri was wondering, we only discussed adding average, do we ant total to be available, too?17:53
th1aUh... I don't think so.17:53
aelknerthe list could get pretty long, so not having it is better17:54
aelknerok, good, then we'll leave it that way17:54
aelkneryes, i'll walk you though it in a hangout when that's ready17:54
aelknerthat's it for me17:55
th1aI'm going to go buy some pants for my trip to Arlington.17:55
th1aIf you work at home long enough, all you have left is jeans.17:55
aelkneri noticed the same thing once17:56
th1aMake sure and let Glenda know what file she needs.17:56
th1aThanks guys.  Have a great week/end.17:56
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:56
aelkneryes, after meeting with replaceafill, i'll send an email17:56
aelknerreplaceafill, shall we?17:56
replaceafilli think he's just confused17:57
yvlsee you guys Mon17:57
th1aHm... ok.17:57
replaceafilli think there's nothing wrong with the score systems (THERE!)17:57
th1aThey're FUCKED!17:57
replaceafillhe's just expecting an aritmetic average17:57
replaceafillthey are indeed ;)17:57
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replaceafillbut not for this :P17:57
aelknerreplaceafill, can you start the hangout?17:59
replaceafillaelkner, kk17:59
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