IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2012-12-03

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th1ahi replaceafill, aelkner, menesis, yvl.16:31
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replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:32
yvlgood morning16:33
th1aFirst off, send me your invoices, and I'll try to get them out this week so everyone can do their Christmas shopping.16:34
th1aI'm going to Arlington on Friday for meetings with people at APS (and dwelsh and jelkner).16:35
th1aAlso I got a response from Antonio from CL.  They've not released our update yet, which is actually a bit less disappointing than if they had done it without telling us.16:36
th1aI'll talk to them about getting CanDo in.16:37
th1aOtherwise, pretty much everyone here seems to be getting over their colds/ear infections/walking pneumonia.16:37
th1aSo hopefully my week will suck less and be more productive.16:38
replaceafilllast week i merged yvl skill events fix16:39
replaceafilland added selenium tests for it16:39
replaceafilli also finished working on the sorting by label stuff16:40
replaceafilli think (and hope) everything sorts right16:40
replaceafilland on friday i tried to help glenda debug her database16:40
replaceafillshe had already the new skills imported16:41
replaceafillso the events didn't fire because the Changer didn't detect any changes16:41
replaceafillso i used a hacked version of the batch assign view to fix her database16:42
replaceafilland sent it to her16:42
replaceafillshe said she was going to work on that today16:42
replaceafillso i expect some more emails in that regard :)16:42
replaceafilli also checked an issue reported by menesis on projects16:43
replaceafillwhen viewed by students16:43
replaceafilland we already have a bug for it:16:43
replaceafill(i think it's the same issue)16:44
replaceafillso, basically, we don't have a view for projects for students :(16:44
replaceafilli'll work on that16:44
th1aOK.  Then IEP's?16:44
replaceafilli added the stesting import to schooltool.export16:45
replaceafilli think menesis complained once about this method16:45
replaceafillbut i needed it for schooltool quiz :)16:46
* replaceafill done16:46
th1aThanks replaceafill.16:47
menesisimport stesting, is the same in other modules, has to be solved at once16:47
replaceafillmenesis, right, that's why i thought :) "we're doing it everywhere, so... " :D16:47
aelkneri finished adding the tests to the skill_scoresystems branch for gradebook with non-default scoresystems16:48
aelknerthis includes tests for the grade student view16:49
aelknerand the fixes i had to make to the score validators in both cando and gradebook packages16:49
aelkneri'm still holding these skill scoresystems changes in a branch on the side16:51
th1aYes aelkner...16:51
aelkneri can make a merge request of that branch and the gradebook branch that fixes the score validation16:51
th1aIs there anything else to do on this task?16:51
aelknernothing i can think of16:52
th1aWe'll have to fix the reports, but I'd rather do that with replaceafill.16:52
aelknerok, i also started to work on the new version of that matches on skillset external id16:53
aelknerbut we need them to make the new_verso_skills.xls file the current one16:53
aelknerbefore we can deliver that to them16:53
replaceafillth1a, ah kk16:55
aelknerso besides getting the new version of the the cte folks16:56
aelkneri have this resource report that i have sitting on my machine, need to push it16:57
aelknerwhat should i be working on next?16:57
th1aI'm thinking report sheet enhancements.16:57
th1aBasically calculations in report sheet.s16:58
th1aSince you've been the report sheet guy.16:58
aelknerso what's your thinking on that subject?16:59
th1aWell, we can go over the details later today if you'd like.16:59
th1aIt is just a little math.  ;-)16:59
aelknersure, we can meet later to discuss it17:00
th1aOK.  2:00? 3:00?17:01
aelknerlet's say 3:0017:01
th1aThanks aelkner.17:02
yvldid the automatic table conversion to RML17:02
yvlnow working (somewhat done) on generic sub-table behaviour17:03
th1aDoes this deal with page breaks at all?17:03
yvlso we could specify a column to goup by17:03
* yvl didn't check, thanks for reminding17:04
yvlyes, it should17:04
yvlit was kind of fun rendering the rml below our ajaxy tables17:05
yvland see it change while searching and sorting :)17:05
yvlone zcml directive -> debug rml under all ST tables :)17:05
th1aAh, nice.17:06
yvlit helps ;)17:06
replaceafillcan we use that for testing rml?17:06
yvlwell, technically...17:06
yvlif devmode is on17:06
yvland you know the exact pdf url17:07
yvlyou can get/post there + /@@rml17:07
replaceafillah ok, got it17:07
yvlbtw, I'm currently adding to our default formatters a group_by_column option17:08
yvlif you pass group_by_column='term' to our section table for example17:08
yvlit will group sections by terms, and render "subtables" in html17:08
yvlthose <th> things inside <body>17:08
th1aSo we'll be adding some kind of link to a PDF version at left?17:09
yvlit would be easier to add print buttons below the tables though17:09
yvlsince it would print currently filtered list17:09
th1aYes... it is more like you're printing the table than the page.17:10
yvlit would be a convenience button/link17:11
yvlgo to persons, filter by students17:12
yvlclick print17:12
yvlor print all english course sections17:12
yvland such17:12
yvlor all equipment :)17:13
yvlalso that lets us use our table formatters in reports17:14
th1aOK, that makes sense.17:15
th1aBut presumably we'll also have some formal reports that include these tables too.17:15
th1ae.g., a multi-part report with several tables.17:16
th1aIn a standard sort/filter.17:16
th1aOK, sounds good.17:17
yvlso next...17:17
yvlI'll try to bring nice page breaks for reports tables with sub-headers17:18
yvljust work around somehow17:18
yvland look into slanted gradebook column titles17:19
yvlthat's it.17:19
th1aThanks yvl.17:19
th1aDid you like the picture of the shunned house?17:19
yvloh yes!17:20
th1aIt is probably a little cheerier than you'd imagine it.  ;-)17:20
yvlyet we can see the hidden truths through the paint17:21
th1aIt leaks through.17:22
th1aWe'll have the tour figured out for your visit.17:22
th1areplaceafill, yvl, are your flights squared away?17:22
replaceafillth1a, yes17:23
th1aSend me the info if you haven't already.17:25
yvlmenesis and me arrives @ Jan 26, 7PM, Providence, USA - T F Green17:26
* replaceafill arrive @ Jan 26, 10:36 PM17:26
replaceafillth1a, sent17:27
th1aOK, menesis?17:28
menesisI have released gradebook & cando17:29
menesisand was uploading zope packages to ubuntu raring17:29
menesisclose to catching up to ZTK 1.117:30
menesistried the new autopkgtest infrastructure17:30
menesisthe packages I upload now get tested with installed versions17:31
menesison ubuntu17:31
menesisresults can be seen at
menesisafter initial failure and someone fixing my error all tests have been passing17:32
th1aGood news.17:33
menesiswill enable testing on schooltool packages as well17:33
menesisthat's it17:34
menesiswas working on more zope packages today17:34
* menesis done17:36
th1aThanks menesis.17:38
th1aOK.  I should publicly state that my goal is to get CanDo documentation done before Christmas.17:38
th1aPut myself on the hook.17:38
th1aOK, thanks guys.17:38
th1aSee you Wednesday.  aelkner, later today.17:39
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:39
replaceafillthanks everybody17:39
yvlthanks guys17:40
aelknerthanks guys, cya wed17:42
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replaceafillth1a, have you thought of making the "%" in worksheet averages optional?20:12
replaceafilla user from Chile is asking a question related to decimal places in averages:20:12
replaceafillwell, decimal places and score systems20:13
th1areplaceafill:  What's the question?20:48
replaceafillhe's looking for advice on getting a rounded average20:49
replaceafillhe's set up a custom score system to get averages from 0-720:49
replaceafillbut he's getting averages like 5.875 apparently20:49
replaceafillat first i thought just removing the % in average might be enough20:50
replaceafillbut i think you need the custom score system anyway20:50
th1aWe should just round to the correct significant digits?20:51
replaceafilli haven't checked yet, but regular averages just use ".1f"20:52
replaceafillmeaning, one decimal place20:52
replaceafilli'm not sure how custom score system do it20:52
th1aIs this ranged or discrete?20:53
replaceafillcustom, so it's discrete20:54
th1aWell... if that's what you're calling it.20:55
th1aSo... we just need to make range score systems round the average the same way?20:57
replaceafilli'd think so20:57
replaceafilli need to check though20:57
replaceafilli asked him to share his score system setup21:02
replaceafillso i can test :)21:02
aelknerhey th1a22:05
th1aOK, so, I'm having trouble finding the original request/bug.22:07
th1aActually it is probably a question...22:07
th1aWe really have a lot of spanish questions.22:08
th1aOK, there is this:
aelkneri was looking through the code in advance of our discussion22:10
aelknerthe worksheet object has a canAverage method that the gradebook view uses22:10
aelknerif the worksheet is deployed, but not course worksheet, then no average allowed22:11
aelkneri can't think at the moment wy this needs to be the case22:11
aelknerperhaps we didn't think the averages of discrete scores made sense22:11
aelknerbut since the average is just a percentage22:11
aelknerit really is not wrong to perform the calculation22:12
aelknerfor instance, three pass/fail activities22:12
th1aDo we only allow discrete score systems in report sheets, or both?22:12
aelknertwo pass scores, one fail, average 66 %22:12
aelknercurrently we only allow discrete in report sheets22:12
aelkneragain, that decision may or may not have been arbitrary, i can't remember22:14
th1aIt is arbitrary in the sense that people may actually want to use numbers there.22:15
th1aSo I'd say that's the first step.22:15
th1aDo you wee anything scary there?22:16
aelknerok, i'm an idiot, i found out by checking the add report activity view22:17
aelknerit's actually the other way around, only activities with ranged values scoresystems can be added22:18
aelkneroops, wrong again22:19
aelknerany type22:19
aelknerit's the gradebook for teachers that is ranged values only22:19
aelknerthat's until now, where cando has discrete ones in its gradebook22:19
th1aI'm not going to get too impatient because obviously I could be trying to figure this out myself.  ;-)22:19
th1aOK, so right now, report sheets can take any kind of score.22:20
th1aAnd any kind of score can be converted to a %.22:20
aelkneryes, but not be averaged, a small fix only needed there22:20
th1aAnd then we can make an average and convert back into a score system.22:21
th1aAnd we could add weighting to that calculation.22:21
th1aActually... we could also just do this in the report card layout.22:24
th1aThat might be easier.22:24
aelkneri don't see a place for that in the layout, there you just choose and activity22:26
aelknerchoose an activity to place in the grid or outline22:26
th1aWell, the idea is this is necessary so that you can calculate an average that appears in the report card.22:26
th1aSo it would be a new kind of column.22:26
th1aI think doing it at the report layout level is easier because then it is one step, rather than adding a calculation column to the report sheet AND to the report layout.22:27
aelknerare you suggesting that we add the average of a deployed report sheet to the22:29
aelknerlist of available activities to add as a grid column or outline activity?22:29
aelknerfor instance:22:29
aelkneri just added a report sheet template called Foo with activity, Bar and deployed it22:30
aelknerin the layout add grid or outline view, the drop down has:22:30
th1aIt would just be for a grid.22:30
aelkner2001 Fall - Foo - Bar22:30
aelkner2011 Spring - Foo - Bar22:30
aelknerwould you like the dropdown to also have:22:31
aelkner2011 Fall - Foo - Average22:31
aelkner2011 Spring - Foo - Average?22:31
aelknerso the average can be a column like any other in the report card?22:32
th1aWell, actually creating the average would at least require an additional step.22:32
th1aSince we need it to be weighted, but essentially yes.22:32
aelknerthe average is not created, it is calculated on demand22:32
aelknerthough the category weighting may be tricky since that is stored with the worksheet22:33
aelknerthe teacher changes that in the gradebook22:33
aelknerand the weighting only applies to the worksheet that the user was viewing when changing the weights22:34
aelknerThis form allows you to change the weighting of categories when calculating average scores within a worksheet.22:34
th1aI'm saying the weighting would just be associated with the report template.22:35
aelknerthat's the what's this text for the view: Gradebook Edit Category Weights22:35
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aelknerah, yes, so the user sets it up in the template and that gets deployed22:35
aelknerthat would be trickier, requiring a new version of the weighting view for templates22:36
aelknerbut it's doable22:36
aelknerbut that's true, the weights have to be deployed with the template22:37
aelknerwe can't let the teacher change them, right?22:37
th1aSo what if when you said you wanted to make an average column you'd get a pop-up with the existing score columns and you just set the weight there?22:37
th1aThe teacher won't actually see them without looking at the report itself.22:37
th1aThat would be the drawback of doing it this way.22:37
th1aIt could be a big drawback...22:38
th1aYou don't deploy the report card template, right?22:39
th1aIt is just like a view.22:39
aelknerlet's start from what we already have, report sheet templates that get deployed22:40
th1aWhat I've been trying to say is that it could just be done at the report card layout level.22:41
aelknerwell, category weights are store as annotations of the worksheet object22:43
th1aaelkner, switch contexts!22:44
th1aThis doesn't have to touch any of that.22:44
th1aThat's the point.22:44
aelknerso, let's say we are in the add grid column view, do we have the two average choices i mentioned earlier22:45
aelkner2011 Fall - Foo - Average22:45
th1aIf we don't worry about if the averages show up in the report sheets, but only the report card, we can just store the weighting with the card layout.22:45
aelkner2011 Spring - Foo - Average22:45
aelkneri would translate what you just said as:22:46
aelknerif we don't take advantage of the entire design we currently have, we have to rewrite large22:46
aelknerportions of code instead of taking advantage of what we already have22:46
th1aYou mean the weighting view?22:47
aelknerthere is currently no mechanism for storing category weights in report card layouts22:47
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aelknerthat would require a new annotation and logic that duplicates what we do with worksheet category weighting22:47
* th1a is constantly amazed at the difficulty of storing numbers and strings in our ZODB.22:47
th1aOK, so let's go back then to assuming we're doing this at the report sheet level.22:48
aelknerthat would be better, yes22:49
th1aSo how will it work then?22:49
aelknerat the template level, we could have category weighting22:49
aelknerthen the deployment would copy that into each section along with everything else that a worksheet has22:50
aelknerthe weighting couldn't be changed in deployed worksheets, but nothing else is anyway22:51
aelkneronce deployed, they are set in stone22:51
aelknerwe decided that because it's important for every deployed worksheet to be precisely the same22:52
aelknerthe teacher already can't change category weights in deployed report sheets22:53
aelknerwe block that in the menu items on the left, it desn't appear as an option22:53
aelknerso i think adding a category weighting link and view to the report sheet template context would work22:54
th1aOK, I think you can just go ahead with that.22:54
aelknersounds like a plan22:55
aelknerso adding the average as a layout choice should not be restricted to grid22:56
aelknerwhy not also have that in the outline if so desired?22:56
th1aWell... it isn't super important I guess.22:56
th1aTo limit it, that is.22:56
th1aSo whatever.22:56
aelknerit's easier to have it in both then to limit it in one22:56
aelknerso the teacher should see the average column in the gradebook22:57
aelknerso that check will change to allow the average to appear in deployed worksheets22:57
aelkneranyway, it looks like three reasonable sub-tasks:22:58
aelkner1) create category weighting view for report sheet templates, not much different from gradebook version22:58
aelkner2) add average columns to report card layout drop-downs22:59
aelkner3) make sure report sheets start showing average in teacher's gradebook22:59
aelknerthat's all i see at the moment, quite a reasonably sized set of tasks23:00
th1aOK, that'll work.23:00
aelknerok, agreed23:01
th1aThanks aelkner.23:03
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