IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2012-09-19

*** yvl has joined #schooltool09:20
*** menesis has joined #schooltool09:42
*** menesis has quit IRC13:01
*** menesis has joined #schooltool13:54
*** ignas has joined #schooltool15:13
*** magespawn has quit IRC15:46
*** magespawn has joined #schooltool15:47
*** th1a has joined #schooltool16:00
*** menesis has quit IRC16:19
*** menesis has joined #schooltool16:26
*** replaceafill has joined #schooltool16:26
th1ahi replaceafill, aelkner, menesis, yvl.16:29
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:30
yvlgood morning16:31
th1aHow are you feeling yvl?16:31
yvlgreat, thanks :)16:32
th1aOK, so there are a number of new bug reports, etc. that I'd like to hit first.16:33
th1aI just had an interesting chat with our host in Thailand.16:33
th1aThey'd like the clerk role to just be able to view everything but edit nothing.16:34
th1aWhich is different than what I'd been thinking of but makes sense.16:34
th1aThat could be an entirely new role or would it be sane to just make it an option for the existing clerks?16:35
th1aI wouldn't want it to be the only way clerks work.16:35
th1aI don't think...16:35
th1aBasically, if it was an option for clerks, would that mean changing a bunch of declarations in one place or a big mess?16:36
th1aThe option would just be:16:36
th1a[ ] Clerks can view but not edit all objects.16:36
th1aAnd would override everything else.16:37
yvlthat would mean editing a lot of zcml files16:38
yvlbut it's not *that* bad16:38
yvlsimply rename clerks to clerks_maybe_edit16:39
yvland add clerks_view16:39
th1aI should let the idea sink in a bit.16:39
yvlput clerks_maybe_edit to administration (where clerks were)16:39
th1aThe idea of restricting clerks in that way is kind of growing on me.16:39
yvland then look where administration has view permissions and add clerks_view there16:40
yvlsome views are informative, but require edit permission16:40
th1aAlso, it may make more sense once we have the year statuses implemented.16:40
yvlso we would need to check manually16:40
yvlsorry for the flood16:40
yvl(those were for the record)16:40
th1aHm... ok, it will be messy if you need edit permission to view things.16:40
th1aWe probably should have been more strict about that.16:41
yvlI just have a vague memory that we had such views16:41
th1aOK, so I'll keep that on the back burner.16:43
th1aThere was a recursion error...16:44
replaceafilli remember there's a bug already for that one...16:45
* replaceafill goes to look16:45
replaceafilli think it's the same issue16:46
th1aOK, aelkner, I'm giving you those.16:46
th1aOK, I guess we have the custom score system question for CanDo cropping up.16:48
th1aI didn't think they could do that last year?16:48
replaceafillit was possible to edit the score system (last year)16:49
th1aOK, I'd forgotten that, so I didn't think it was something they'd miss initially, so that has to move up the queue.16:50
aelknerisn't it dangerous to edit a scoresystem once there are scores entered against it?16:50
th1aActually... where are we with that.16:51
th1aIt isn't editing the score system but choosing which one CanDo uses.16:51
th1aWasn't that on your stack aelkner?16:51
aelknerwe had started down that road, but we didn't go very far16:52
th1aOK, that has to move up the queue then.16:52
aelknerit stalled as we were trying to define the task16:53
aelkneroh, wait16:53
th1aAll right, yes, I shouldn't have dropped it.16:53
aelkneri remember, i dd create a separate branch16:53
th1aaelkner, would you like to go ahead with your report?16:53
aelknerso i need to look at that16:53
aelknerok, so i also took a couple days off since last wednesday16:54
aelknerwasn't feeling quite right for some reason, but i better now16:54
aelknerwhat i've done since then is the following:16:54
aelkneri knocked off the two tasks that welsh had16:54
aelknerthe one that menesis got into the ppa was the Person links in the group view16:55
aelknerthat they went to the person view, but with the Done button returning to the group16:55
aelknerso then i did the other one which was to change the order of layers by hierarchy16:56
aelknerat first i did it for the edit_hierarchy view in the document16:56
aelknerbut then i realized that what welsh really wanted was to have th layer checkboxes16:57
aelknerin the node search view to also be sorted that way, so i did that, too16:57
aelknerthat's in trunk, but not in the ppa16:57
aelknerthen i turned my attention to the bugs that you assigned me last week16:58
th1aSo, what if there is no consistent order of the hierarchy?16:58
aelknerbut it need to talk to you about them because i can't seem to reproduce them16:58
aelknerth1a, if there is no consistent order, then the behaviour is unpredictable17:00
aelknerif we are looking for order that isn't there, we can't really do much about that17:00
th1aWell, that is a possibility which your code has to deal with, which is why I really didn't want to mess with it.17:00
aelkneryou'll have to define how i would deal with it, give me an example17:01
th1aLike if in one case a skill is in English > Writing > 8th Grade > Essay.17:02
th1aAnd another in the same system is 8th Grade > Writing > English > Story.17:02
th1aThere doesn't have to be an order.17:02
th1aThat's why I didn't want you to do that.17:03
aelkneri thought you approved the task and assigned it to me17:03
aelknerit's in the Cando task google doc17:03
aelknertask 5)17:03
th1aI recally swearing in all caps in the last meeting to emphasize that I did not want you to do that.17:03
th1aThat I was only ok with making skillsets and skills always be last.17:04
th1aAnyhow, it is water under the bridge.17:04
th1aThis is why I always hated this bug.17:04
aelknerwell, it's ordered by hierarchy now, and that will make welsh happy17:05
th1aIt does not make me happy!17:05
aelkneri understand, and i can undo it if you like17:05
th1aPlease, and lets never speak of this issue again.17:06
aelkneri can't control welsh speaking of it17:06
th1aIt is a minor bug full of edge cases and annoyance.17:06
th1aMoving on aelkner.17:06
aelknerso, perhaps after the meeting, you could show me how you got the bugs you assigned my17:07
aelknerlike not being able to edit labels17:07
aelkneror no rich text for descriptions17:07
aelknerperhaps you are looking at an out of date version17:07
th1aThat's the only reasonable explanation if it works for you.17:08
th1aThey aren't exactly subtle issues.17:08
aelknerso, in the meantime, i started working on the unique ids in importer task17:08
aelknerremember how we allow the sheet to have two rows with the same id17:08
aelknerwith the second row overwriting the results of the first17:09
aelkneryou wanted me to give an error if the same id comes up twice, remember?17:09
aelknerand that's for years, terms, persons, etc.17:09
aelknerso i'd like to get that one off my plate if that's ok17:09
th1aShould be pretty quick, right?17:10
aelknerwell, it's not just a patch, i have to add a method of tracking the ids in the base class and use it in the various classes17:11
aelknerplus i need a lot of test cases to prove that it works17:11
aelknerbut it's not going to take that long17:11
th1aOK, basically the CanDo score system is more pressing, but if you're already started on the id's go ahead and finish it.17:12
aelknerok, and can you check on the label, description bugs in a newer version of cando?17:12
th1aWell, actually, now that I think about it, the problem is that I was using the version of CanDo from the PPA, and if those changes (which aren't that recent) aren't in there, we have a problem.17:13
aelknerperhaps we could do a google hangout after the meeting where you can screenshare and show me17:14
aelkneralso, there's this:
th1aI don't need to SHOW you.17:14
aelknerwell, i won't believe it until i see it17:15
th1aThe question is whether or not changes are missing the PPA.17:15
aelkneri doubt it17:15
aelkneri always push my code to trunk17:15
aelknerad i'm sure menesis uses trunk to make the changes to the ppa17:15
th1aI'll update my ppa instance and double check.17:16
aelknerok, the removing title bug that i just posted here is a tricky one17:16
menesisthere were changes after I made a release17:16
menesisto the ppa17:16
menesisbut you can see that in the revision log17:17
th1aI just didn't think these would have been done very recently.17:17
th1aBut that could be it.17:17
aelkneri don't understand why you would be seeing this problem17:17
aelknerthat's why i wanted you to show me17:18
th1aI don't think it is weird to think that some changes might have been dropped.17:18
th1aLet me double check.17:18
th1aSo the title thing is one of those "harder than you'd think" bugs?17:20
aelknerno, not that, just that it doesn't make sense in all cases, so i needed to talk to you about that17:20
menesis"hierarchy order" changes are not yet in the ppa17:20
menesisI am not sure what bug are you talking about17:21
th1aWe added ckedit support to some edit views.17:21
th1aRight aelkner?17:21
th1aCan we figure out what revision that was?17:23
aelknermenesis, don't bother merging the hierarchy order thing to the ppa17:23
aelkneri'm going to undo it and push that change to trunk17:23
menesisckeditor for Description fields was in the first release of schooltool.cando17:25
th1aOK, let's just table it until I can reproduce my own bugs.17:27
th1aaelkner:  Let's move on and continue after the gravel.17:27
th1aThanks aelkner.17:27
replaceafilli also finished my tasks in dwelsh list17:28
replaceafilli made some changes to the virginia reports17:29
replaceafillbased on yvl's suggestions from last week17:29
replaceafilli also added stests for the section summary (charts) and the va section report (tables)17:29
replaceafillthe va section report had a bug in the attainment tables17:30
replaceafillon monday i helped glenda who was preparing her training17:30
replaceafilland she hit a really weird bug (at least for me)17:30
replaceafillthe teachers group view raises an error17:31
replaceafillcaused by some "ghost?" objects left in the members relationship17:31
replaceafilli have no idea how that happened17:31
replaceafilland my zodb skills are not good enough :(17:31
replaceafillso, maybe yvl could take a look at it17:32
replaceafilli'm really curious about how that happened17:32
th1aIs there a report?17:32
yvlcan has db?17:32
replaceafillyvl, sure17:32
yvlthanks, will look at it17:32
replaceafilland here's the paste.log17:33
replaceafillyvl, could please share how you diagnose it? :)17:33
yvlsure - if ;)17:34
replaceafillwith some good tests for the other reports, i kept working on the completion reports17:34
yvlI might end up with "well that was weird"17:34
replaceafillyvl, not allowed :P17:34
replaceafillyou *will* find out17:35
yvlsir, yes, sir17:35
replaceafillyvl, related note17:35
replaceafilli saw you made the event change for tests17:35
replaceafillnow i'm getting bit by an evolve script in schooltool.requirement :(17:36
replaceafillhere's the evolution script:17:36
yvlsorry, I did not run gradebook tests yet17:37
replaceafillwell, actually this test is on my virginia branch17:38
yvlok, will fix17:38
replaceafilli'll keep my workaround in the meantime17:38
replaceafillyvl, last question17:38
replaceafillfor the chart report (for students) i've used a table formatter17:39
replaceafilli wanted to use a similar approach for the completion report17:39
replaceafillhowever th1a has requested the table to have some headers in the tbody17:39
replaceafillwhich table formatters by default don't do17:39
replaceafillthis is for grouping sections by course btw17:40
replaceafilli want to keep using the table formatter because:17:40
replaceafill1. automatic refresh on filter change (ajaxy)17:40
replaceafill2. there's already a column for spitting the chart i could reuse17:40
replaceafillbut i don't know how to modify the table formatter to "group" stuff and create the tbody header with colspan="numberofcolumns"17:41
replaceafill(i'm not sure if i'm being clear)17:41
replaceafillmaybe a table formatter is not right for this task17:43
replaceafillin which case i'll need to duplicate the ajaxy behaviour of ajax.Table17:43
replaceafill(which is not difficult)17:43
replaceafillbut i'll lose my column :(17:44
replaceafilland will need to duplicate that as well17:44
th1aOr perhaps there is an entirely different solution.17:44
th1aWithout using subheaders.17:44
th1a(not that I have one off the top of my head)17:44
replaceafilladding a Course column would be the easiest17:45
replaceafilli think we could have the Course column if we set the right widths for the rest of the columns17:45
yvlbtw, do you need a single row of headers17:45
yvlor two rows?17:45
th1aJust do that for now replaceafill.17:46
replaceafillyvl, just one <thead><tr>17:46
replaceafilland several <tbody><tr><th>17:46
th1a(well, maybe I"m cutting off the discussion too fast)17:46
replaceafilli think tweaking somehow all the render* methods in the table formatter we could get it :D17:47
replaceafilli was close last night but got tired ;)17:47
* yvl thinking17:47
replaceafilllets assume each item will be a section17:48
yvlyes, that17:48
replaceafilland we want to group them by course17:48
yvljust thinking how ;)17:48
replaceafillthat's the use case17:48
replaceafillah ok :)17:48
replaceafillth1a, related question17:48
replaceafilli think you said we were doing the table version of the completion reports17:49
replaceafillafter we finish the charts one17:49
replaceafillis that correct?17:49
replaceafillso i can code all of this trying to reuse as much as possible17:49
replaceafill(i like that table formatters make you think in smaller parts of functionality)17:50
replaceafillinstead of a huge update method doing it all...17:50
th1aOh... I don't really want to do the text version at all frankly.17:50
th1aBut we will probably end up doing it.17:50
replaceafillok, i think that's it from me17:51
yvl(It seems I don't fully understand what you're trying to achvieve.   But you could look into customizing formatter's renderRows to add that custom headerish row)17:51
replaceafillyvl, right17:51
replaceafillok, i'll go with the extra Course column for now17:51
yvlI could also add17:52
yvltag attributes for header cells17:52
yvlinstead of just class17:52
th1ayvl:  Basically, we're a bit crunched for horizontal space, and a course column seems redundant.17:53
th1aIn most cases you'll probably have 5 - 50 sections of the same course.17:53
th1aWell, 1 - 35.17:54
replaceafilli'll give it another try today17:54
replaceafillif i can't do it, i'll stick with the extra column :)17:54
th1aIt is worth another crack I think.17:54
yvlreplaceafill, try overriding renderRows17:55
replaceafillyvl, will do17:55
replaceafillimho it should be a combination of renderRows + getItems17:55
replaceafillso you get the stuff grouped17:55
replaceafilldon't know17:55
replaceafillwill try :D17:55
yvland renderRows and renderRow17:55
*** menesis has quit IRC17:56
replaceafilltable formatters seem complicated but they're pretty simple actually17:56
yvlhmm, or better yet17:56
yvland add getGroup(item)17:56
replaceafillgood idea17:56
yvland if group not same as last,17:56
yvland just plain html there17:56
yvlwould that work?17:56
*** menesis has joined #schooltool17:57
replaceafillyes, i could sort the sections by course17:57
replaceafillthat would give me the group behaviour17:57
yvlcourse may be invsible column btw17:57
replaceafillthanks yvl!17:57
replaceafillah yes17:57
replaceafilli was about to ask that :D17:57
replaceafillis that possible?17:57
replaceafilli saw visible columns exist17:58
replaceafilli thought, there should be invisible somewhere17:58
replaceafillis that an attribute on the column?17:58
replaceafilluse of ommit or something?17:58
replaceafilldidn't look deeply into that17:58
yvlI think you need to explicitly not pass the hidden column with visible_column_names17:59
yvlto the formatter constructor17:59
replaceafillself.columns_by_name[nm] for nm in visible_column_names17:59
yvlbut if you can do without, as in - add combined (course,section) sorter, just do without17:59
yvlcombined sorter may be faster18:00
yvlto implement18:00
yvlwell, keep me posted ;)18:01
replaceafillwill do!18:01
* replaceafill done18:01
th1aThanks replaceafill.18:02
yvlwell, I pushed that change to the book18:03
yvland the startup event for replaceafill :)18:03
yvland some bugfixes to schooltool.ldap18:03
yvlwriting better documentation helps to find bugs, it seems :)18:04
yvlwhich reminds me, I did not add translations to schooltool.ldap18:04
yvlI'd like to ask menesis to try packaging it soon18:04
yvland creating launchpad... project if he wants18:05
menesisI have created
menesislast week18:05
yvloh, awesome18:05
yvlmissed that18:05
replaceafillwe could use projects for cando and virginia ;)18:06
yvlI'll add translations and merge18:06
yvlthat's all I'm afraid18:07
yvlI have some request from replaceafill I think18:07
yvlalso some bugs to look at18:07
yvlif th1a points me to what's important, I could smash a few more bugs18:08
yvlas we're near release18:08
th1aThe Matt performance issues.18:08
th1aI'll look at the bugs though.18:08
th1aThanks yvl.18:09
menesisI implemented one feature for philippines this week18:10
menesisand last.. don't remember18:10
menesisnothing notable18:10
menesismade releases last Thursday18:11
th1aOK.  Thanks menesis.18:12
th1aWe should probably wrap this up...18:12
th1aI'm going to be trying to switch into doc writing mode this week.18:12
th1aI have to do it in bursts.18:13
yvlbest of luck18:13
th1aThanks guys.18:14
th1aHave a good week/end.18:14
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:14
replaceafillthanks everybody18:14
aelknergreat weekend guys18:14
th1amenesis, aelkner:  I guess we do need a quick screenshare hangout so I can show you the forms I'm looking at in which version.18:14
aelkneryes, let's do18:14
yvlgood luck guys18:15
th1amenesis:  Is 2.2.3 the newest released version of SchoolTool in the PPA?18:18
menesisth1a: yes18:18
replaceafillyvl, still around?18:28
replaceafillth1a, we'll probably need a filter above the table for the completion report, right?18:54
replaceafill(based on dwelsh last email)18:54
replaceafillanother good reason to go with table formatters :)18:54
th1areplaceafill:  Doesn't the section report remember a user's passing score?18:57
replaceafillth1a, not yet18:57
replaceafillreports don't remember yet18:57
replaceafilli think they'll need to18:58
replaceafill(based on glenda's question)18:58
*** menesis has quit IRC20:22
*** khildin has joined #schooltool20:43
*** ignas has quit IRC20:55
khildinhello channel. Can anyone point me to documentation on authentication of schooltool against LDAP?20:59
th1aHi khildin.21:01
khildinI am using an Ubuntu server with OpenLDAP and Samba4 and kerberos (Zentyal) and would like to use the same userbase with SSO for schooltool21:01
th1aActually, we're just writing that now.21:02
th1aActually, I need to review it.21:02
khildinthat would be awesome!21:02
th1aSo you can help.  ;-)21:02
khildintell me what I can do?21:02
th1aWell, if you're enough of a hacker to get on IRC and set up LDAP, perhaps you can build the documentation from source...21:04
th1aThis is the right branch:
khildinwell... don't have too high hopes on my skillzz.. :P I'm just a converted MS sysadmin... ;)21:07
khildinbut I am sure willing to give it a go...21:07
th1aI can walk you through.21:07
th1aAre you on Ubuntu?21:07
th1a(or we can just throw the updated files to you some other way)21:08
khildinI am involved as community manager in zentyal community and currently deploying that server in a primairy school.... schooltool looks like THE missing link for educational deployment21:08
th1aI guess I could just send you a zipfile.21:08
khildinyes I am using ubuntu21:08
th1aRight, that's where I recognize the name, hi!21:08
th1aI'll just update mine and zip up the html.21:09
khildinthat would be great21:09
th1aOK, give me a few minutes.21:09
th1aHere's the key line: "If you have installed Zentyal ( on the same server and configured Users / Groups modules, SchoolTool should be able to pick up LDAP settings automatically."21:12
khildinthat sounds amazingly easy... ^_^21:12
khildinI could test that this week...21:13
khildinI have remote shell acces on that server... so even can do that from home21:13
th1aWell, making sure a specific LDAP configuration will work is relatively easy.21:13
th1aI don't think I have your email.  Do you want to private chat it to me?21:14
khildinis there any community for schooltool? or only some devs on launchpad?21:15
th1aWell... it is mostly here and users emailing me directly.21:16
th1aSchoolTool is unfortunately, very difficult to hack on.21:17
khildinI saw you use Zope? In the past I have been using Plone so not unfamiliar with Zope...21:20
khildinIs there any activity in promoting schooltool?21:21
*** menesis has joined #schooltool21:24
*** khildin_ has joined #schooltool21:27
khildin_sorry... my router froze21:28
*** khildin has quit IRC21:28
khildin_th1a: Is there any activity in promoting schooltool?21:29
*** khildin_ is now known as khildin21:29
th1akhildin: Well... we focus more on development than press.21:36
khildinend of october there is t-dose in Eindhoven, Netherlands21:37
khildinthere will be an EDU-trac this year21:37
khildinand schooltool might fit in just fine as a project21:37
th1aI'll take a look.21:38
khildinit could even be combined with zentyal... there will be a presentation and a stand for zentyal...21:38 is the website21:38
th1aAh, yes, that could be useful in concert with Zentyal.21:40
th1aWe get a lot of our growth through being embedded/distributed with other products.21:40
khildinI can imagine that...21:42
khildinth1a: Am I missing something or is this doc still without LDAP authentication?21:48
th1aWell... that was something I asked after the first draft.21:49
th1aWhat *exactly* does this do now?21:49
th1aBut I think it does do auth.21:49
th1aYou know developers, not good at stating the fundamentals.21:49
th1aAlso, we need to get the package into our PPA.21:50
th1aWhich should happen soon.21:50
th1aIt is in our bzr.21:50
th1aBut probably you should just wait a few days.21:50
th1aAnd you'll be able to apt-get install schooltool.ldap21:50
khildinok thnx... it would be great to have schooltool available with almost automatic integration with Zentyal LDAP21:52
khildinI presume the release will be announced in the users mailinglist?21:53
th1aThe official release will be synced with Quantal.21:53
th1aI'll let you know when we get the package into our PPA that you can test.21:53
*** paulproteus has quit IRC22:42
*** paulproteus has joined #schooltool22:49
menesisth1a: I have fixed a bug in zope.html package that prevented fckeditor from loading22:51
th1aCool.  Thanks menesis.22:51
menesisit did not work since last September...22:51
th1aIt fails kind of silently.23:01
*** replaceafill has quit IRC23:45

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!