IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2012-07-16

aelknermattva01, hey00:44
mattva01aelkner, have any idea how to integrate cando into a development instance?01:05
mattva01as in what to checkout and what to put into the buildout.cfg?01:05
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aelknersure, i'll email you my buildout.cfg as a reference, then i'll explain the pattern01:14
aelknermattva01, look at the develop = line01:16
aelknerassumed there is that the package to be added was branched along side the schooltool, where the buildout file lives01:16
aelkneralso, below, in the eggs section, there needs to be only the package mentioned, no path01:17
aelknerdo you need schooltool.virginia, or is this just a cando only instance?01:17
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th1ahi yvl, aelkner, replaceafill.16:30
yvlgood morning16:30
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:30
th1aOK, so the next two weeks will be continuing my semi-summer vacation.16:32
th1aI'm in Providence now and driving to PA (8 hours) Wednesday.16:32
th1aDriving back the following Thursday.16:32
th1aI'll be online and working some daily though.16:33
th1aAs per usual.16:33
th1ayvl: How are long term processes progressing?16:33
yvltoday I started working on two phase commits and am... in the middle of it, I'd say16:34
yvlafter that, let's see16:35
yvlwe have simple tasks, recurrent tasks, their counterparts for DB writes/reads16:35
yvland tpc's16:36
th1aCan we shoot for some kind of demo/example for next Monday?16:36
yvlI should be able to start on import tasks wed16:37
yvlso yes, sounds plausable16:37
yvlthe first one is always the hardest :)16:37
th1aFeels like we're at the point where we need a push over the finish line.16:37
yvlsame here16:37
th1aOK then... PUSH!16:38
* yvl is just a bit careful, because you need to be with such things16:38
yvlit's not like we can debug much on-field16:38
th1aYes, at the end of the day, there are a lot more things that can go wrong with this kind of system.16:38
yvla *lot*, yes16:39
yvlbut Ask Solem and friends are awesome hackers, so at least I can trust their code :)16:39
yvlso, I'll have an update Wed and shoot for basic demo Mon16:40
th1aIn Celery?16:40
th1aThey're the celery team?16:40
yvlyes, Ask Solem is Celery author16:41
th1aAnything else yvl?16:42
yvlDevilstone open-air was awesome!16:42
yvlthat would be all.16:42
th1aAh, excellent.16:42
* yvl is trying to convey his possitive attitude towards pretty much everything now :)16:43
th1aThanksy yvl.16:44
aelknerok, so i started with the there are none messages in the node view16:44
aelknerthat got me to finally getting the pencils for editing node layers and skillsets to work16:45
aelknerthere is no pencil, thus, no heading for child nodes, nor in the layer view16:45
aelknerthat's because we don't have a relationship property for children16:45
aelknershould we leave the children section without the pencil since we have it for parents?16:46
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aelknerbtw, adding too many parents will cause a crash16:48
th1aThe site is running really slow, btw.16:48
aelknerthat's because we don't have a special check for whether adding one causes a cyclic relationship16:49
th1aMay be overloaded again...16:49
th1aSo... what needs to be done about that aelkner?16:49
aelkneri was going to ask replaceafill, did you notice that it takes twenty seconds to start server16:49
aelknerif you have welsh's skills loaded?16:49
replaceafillno, i haven't16:50
replaceafillstarted quickly today after i updated the branches...16:50
aelknerand you have the whole verso_skills.xls loaded?16:50
aelknerfunny because when i have them loaded, it's slow, when i remove them it's fast16:50
th1aOn your local machine aelkner?16:51
aelkneryes, there, too16:51
aelkneri've been working with a smaller set of skills to avoid the problem16:52
aelkneri was hoping the replaceafill would have the same problem with the larger set of skills16:52
th1aWell... the server is acting like it is maxed out.  It is probably both a little slow in terms of software and just swamped hardware wise.16:53
th1aWhat's the load look like replaceafill?16:53
aelknerah, right, the demo server has issues of its own16:53
replaceafillreplaceafill@schooltoolers:~/sandboxes/schooltool.cando_demo/schooltool$ free16:53
replaceafill             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached16:53
replaceafillMem:        768848     687648      81200          0      29296     26068416:53
replaceafill-/+ buffers/cache:     397668     37118016:53
replaceafillSwap:       524284     299404     22488016:53
replaceafillit's used half of its swap16:53
replaceafillwe could restart it16:53
th1aIt's not loading a node for me.16:54
th1aEIther that or kill all the random instances on there.16:54
th1aWhat's top say?16:54
aelknerdo we realy need schooltool.niepa running?16:54
replaceafilltop - 13:54:27 up 44 days, 19:57,  3 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.0716:54
th1aCan you guys load
replaceafilldon't see anything eating cpu or something16:55
replaceafilli can16:55
replaceafillAutomated Manufacturing Technician16:55
replaceafillloaded fast16:55
aelknerth1a, that loaded right away16:55
th1aHm... yes, I have it now.16:55
aelknercold it be a network thing or you ISP?16:56
th1aIt could be any kind of weird thing.16:56
th1aHowever, can we be clear here going forward on whether this is a little slow starting up with all the CanDo skills or if we have a serious problem which needs to be addressed ASAP.16:57
aelkneri don't know why it starts slow on y macine and not on replaceafill's16:58
aelknerperhaps he and i could look into this together16:58
th1aWell, I don't really care about slow starting anyhow.16:58
th1aDoes it run ok?16:59
aelkneryes, it runs ok, just slow-starting16:59
th1aIs replaceafill using a ssd?16:59
aelknerthat's a pain for developing because i need to start a lot16:59
th1aI don't care if you use a smaller skillset for development.16:59
aelknersure, sure16:59
th1aI just have to make sure a couple days before deployment everyone says "by the way, this is actually too slow to use, maybe we should have mentioned it."17:00
th1aOK, so, nodes.17:00
aelknerluckily welsh has been using replaceafill's instance a lot, so it's not like he'll suddenly start using it17:00
aelknerand it is slow, so i don't think we have to worry there17:01
aelknerso, nodes17:01
aelknergo ahead17:01
th1aSo... we can't add children?17:01
aelknerwe don't have the relationship property, so i was gong to ask yvl about that17:02
aelkneryvl, can you tell me what i would need to do to add that?17:02
yvlone sec17:02
aelknerdo we need a new URILink, or can we reuse the one for parents and reverse the order or something?17:03
yvlcan you tell what you want to add to what exactly?17:03
yvleither I missed something, or I'm missing context17:03
aelknera class attribute to Node17:03
aelknerchildren = RelationsipProperty(...17:04
aelkneralso to Layer, same thing17:04
yvlumm, no, the question is what you want to link with what17:04
yvlthe objects17:04
yvl"add children Xes to Ys"17:04
yvlor somehting17:04
aelknerit's the same as parents, only the reverse17:04
yvlwhat to what?17:05
yvlI just have no idea what you are talking about17:05
yvl(it's continuation of some earlier discussion I don't seem to remember)17:05
th1aLooking at a node view, wanting to add a child.17:05
aelknerNodes have parents nodes, i need Nodes to have child nodes17:05
yvlah, ok17:05
yvllemme look17:05
aelknerand Layes to have chlid Layers17:05
yvl(and thanks)17:06
th1aGenerally people compose these things from the top down, so I'd much rather have it run the other way.17:06
* yvl is looking for examples17:07
aelknerwe could have it run both ways17:07
aelknerth1a, are you suggesting getting rid of parents if children are working?17:07
th1aI'm kind of anti editing parents at all.17:07
aelknerhow about displaying them?17:08
th1aYes to displaying them.17:08
aelknerjust no pencil, right?17:08
aelkneryvl, does getting rid of parents pencil and having children pencil work for you?17:09
yvlsorry, I don't follow this development closely17:09
yvlat the moment17:09
yvlcan't weigh in objectively17:10
aelkneryou can click on the link to my demo instance and look at the latest node.pt17:10
th1aThe only thing yvl needs to tell us is if there is some reason that we can't add children to a node when we're editing the node.17:10
yvlno there is no reason17:10
yvlthe syntax is, if I recall correctly...17:10
yvlfrom schooltool.cando.model import NodeLink17:10
yvlNodeLink(parent=this, child=that)17:10
yvland to get the list, you can also use17:11
yvl(to get children)17:11
aelknerthis from
aelknerNodeLink = RelationshipSchema(URINodeLink,17:11
aelkner                              parent=URIParentNode,17:11
aelkner                              child=URINode)17:11
yvl(to get parents)17:11
aelkner    parents = RelationshipProperty(URINodeLink, URINode, URIParentNode)17:12
aelkneri don't see any this or that in those lines17:12
aelknerbut can we jsut reverse the order in the RelationshipProperty call?17:12
aelknerchildren = RelationshipProperty(URINodeLink, URIParentNode, URINode)?17:13
yvlwell, if you read schooltool.realtionship.relationship module, you might see ;)17:13
aelkneror do we need a new schema?17:13
yvlthe answer is yes17:13
aelkneri'll try that then, and i17:14
yvlbut there might be a reason why there is only one property defined17:14
yvlso anyway - you can always use what I wrote above17:14
yvlalso, you can do NodeLink.unlink(parent=this, child=that)17:15
aelkneri prefer having the relationship property17:16
aelknerit makes it easier to query, and the relationship base views use add and remove as a rule17:16
aelkneri'll see what i can do17:17
yvlit should work17:17
aelknerth1a, i'll get rid of parent pencils and replace with children pencils17:17
aelknermoving on17:17
aelknern skillsets, get rid of external_id, change short_label to label, add description17:17
th1aKeep the headers inside the accordions, btw.17:17
aelkneri finished that one17:17
th1aAlso, use tables inside the accordions.17:17
aelknerth1a, what do mean by keeping headers inside accordions17:18
th1aThe header text.17:18
aelknerthe accordion needs its own header17:18
th1aI mean in both places.17:18
aelknerthen , we need another one for the pencil17:18
th1aEmbrace redundancy.17:18
aelkneri'm not sure what you are asking about headers, it already is redundant17:19
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aelknercould you restate what you want with the headers please?17:19
th1aIn child nodes, you took it out.17:19
aelkneryou asked me to17:19
aelknerbut now we will have the pencil, so it will go back17:20
aelknerbut you asked me to get rid of headers that had no pencil17:20
aelknerunless i misunderstood17:20
aelkneryour complaint was in fact the redundancy, perhaps you have embraced it in the meantime17:21
th1aWe ended last week with:17:22
th1ath1aOK, so just leave them then.17:22
aelknerah, seeing as you want the lists to be tables17:22
aelkneri could see that we would always have the header17:22
th1aAnyhow, just put it back and remember to format the child and parent nodes as tables (even if they're headerless).17:23
aelknerok, i'll make them tables and include the headers always, pencils left out for parents17:24
aelknerdo you want the layer view to also have an accordion?17:24
aelknerit only has General Info, parents and children17:25
aelknerbut that may be enough to justify having the accordion, your call17:25
th1a... waiting for it to come up ...17:25
aelkneryeah, i'm not having the same time waiting17:26
aelknerit must be your ISP or someting17:26
th1aWeird.  Not affecting any other sites.17:26
th1aAnyhow, no, I don't think so.17:27
aelknerno accordion for layer view17:27
aelknerbut tables for parents and children, right?17:27
aelknerok, will do17:28
aelkneryvl, i noticed something about ajax tables17:28
aelknerthey don't have a there are none message17:29
th1aI think we should retain the tertiary navigation as you're viewing all the sub-objects.17:29
aelknerin fact, the class attribute, empty_message = u''17:29
aelknershouldn't it have there are none and be used in the template?17:29
yvla good question17:29
yvllooks like something made deliberately17:29
aelknerthat's why i ask you, you may have had your reason for it17:30
yvl(or unfinished)17:30
replaceafill-1 on generic "there are none" messages17:30
replaceafillthey're a pain to translate17:30
yvlthat might be the reason17:30
aelknerth1a, i ask because you complain when they are not there17:30
aelknerso in a blank instance, hitting the Skills link brings you to the tertiary17:30
aelknerbut there are empty tables with no there are none messages17:31
aelknerif that's ok, then fine17:31
th1aIs "There are none." an acceptable generic message?17:31
replaceafillimho, no it isn't17:32
replaceafillit's better to have:17:32
replaceafill"there are no layers"17:32
replaceafill"there are no nodes"17:32
th1aMy only concern is when a completely blank space is left under a header that makes it look like something is unfinished or buggy.17:33
yvl+1 replaceafill17:33
th1aSo I'm not sure exactly what case aelkner is referring to.17:33
replaceafillrelated bug:
aelkneri could put there are no nodes, layers, documents or skillsets (no generic) if that's ok17:34
aelknerit seems like good arguments are being made against generic17:35
aelknershall we move on?17:36
th1aTertiary navigation throughout these views.17:36
th1aAnd breadcrumbs.17:36
aelkneri know about the need for breadcrumbs17:37
th1aEspecially meaningful breadcrumbs while browsing documents (they'll have to be smart).17:37
aelknerwhat do you mean about tertiary throughout?17:37
th1aWhen you're looking at, say, a node.17:37
aelknerwhat would the tertiary links have?17:38
th1aSame as top level for this stuff.17:38
th1aDocuments Skill Sets Layers Nodes17:38
aelkneri see, so while viewing a node, the Nodes tab is highlighted17:39
aelkneri could do that, should be interesting17:39
th1aQuick would be better than interesting.  ;-)17:40
th1aWe're getting into the weeds here.17:40
aelknerso i added the label hint for the five character limit17:41
aelknerand i got rid of external_id for skillsets, replacing it with description17:41
aelkneri still need to fo the htmlfield edting for descriptions17:42
aelknerthat and the breadcrumbs were already on my list17:42
th1aWe also have to display them correctly.17:42
aelkneranyway, that's it for me17:42
aelkneryes, ofc17:42
th1aAnd replaceafill did you take descriptions out of the dropdown thing?17:42
replaceafillth1a, you mean the filldown?17:43
replaceafillhaven't pushed that yet17:43
replaceafillit's part of my task for today17:43
th1aall right aelkner.  I guess you're back from Arlington?17:43
th1aI do feel like we're stuck in the mud right now.17:45
th1aAny ideas about how we can move faster to resolve these issues?17:46
aelknerthere are and have been a lot of issues to work out with the skills views17:46
aelknerthey never were coded entirely, so now we are doing it17:47
th1aJust muddling through turning the bare development views into user friendly views.17:47
th1aOK.  I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.17:48
aelkneryes, it's a back and forth process with you acting as customer, so we're finally getting to it17:48
aelknerbut we're getting close, i agree17:48
th1aIt would be really helpful to wrap this stuff up this week.17:48
aelkneri'm confident we can, are you available wed to look it over again?17:48
aelknerare we meeting at 930 before you head out?17:49
th1aNo.  You and I can meet Tuesday.17:49
th1aNo meeting Wednesday.17:49
th1aOr I can do Thurs. morning.17:49
th1aWell, let's assume at least a short Thursday meeting for everyone, regular time.17:50
aelknerlet's do thursday moring17:50
th1aThat ok yvl, replaceafill?17:50
replaceafillth1a, sure17:50
th1aOK.  Thanks aelkner.17:51
replaceafilllast week i worked on several things requested by dwelsh17:51
replaceafillbasically, added a new view for assigning skillsets to courses17:52
replaceafilli also made some changes to core, adding filters for sections in the course view17:52
replaceafilli've pushed all my cando changes to "trunk"17:53
replaceafilland i have a few more to work on for today17:53
replaceafillwe scheduled a meeting with dwelsh tomorrow at 1 pm17:53
replaceafillhe's going to demo what we have to glenda lewis on wednesday17:54
replaceafill(i think)17:54
replaceafillth1a, when can we discuss:17:54
replaceafill1. sorting skillsets algorithm17:54
replaceafill2. color coding17:54
th1aWhat's the question about 1?17:55
replaceafillwe need to come up with it?17:55
replaceafillor are we "counting the skillsets" to decide?17:56
replaceafilli remember we talked about it, but i don't have anything in my notes17:56
th1aSorting them into courses?17:57
th1aIf there is 1 parent node, list them under that one.17:57
th1ago through all the skillsets, count all the parents, pick the one that comes up most frequently as the "core" one.17:58
th1aSort that one first, btw.17:58
replaceafillah ok17:59
th1aAnd then for ones that have multiples, just say something like "English 9 and 3 others"17:59
th1aOr maybe just list a set number of labels until you run out of space.17:59
th1aEC-101, AF-92, jd-21, 2341, and 2 others.18:00
th1aYou just need to be a little more creative than usual.18:00
replaceafillwe won't be able to test this with dwelsh data, right?18:00
th1aJust DON'T pick the first one and forget about it.18:00
th1aWelsh only cares about it looking right to him.18:00
replaceafilli mean, i have to create a new sample data for this18:01
replaceafillwith multiple parents nodes18:01
th1aMake sure you sort the courses by the number of times they come up.18:01
th1aThat'll look right to him.18:01
th1aYes, you'll need some new data for testing.18:02
replaceafillgot it18:02
th1aWhen you show it to him, you don't need to talk about multiple parents at all.18:02
th1aAct like it doesn't exist.18:02
th1aPlease.  ;-)18:02
th1aDon't trigger that 5 minute subroutine.18:02
replaceafillwhat about colors?18:03
th1aTry just making the background header for the non-required skills blue.18:04
th1aAlso, I couldn't tell what welsh was referring to in his email.18:04
replaceafilli agree with his first point18:04
replaceafill"justify the competency description"18:04
replaceafillinstead of centering it18:04
th1aIf you know what he is talking about it, feel free to try it.18:04
replaceafillbut i haven't see it18:04
replaceafillah ok :)18:05
replaceafillyou will be here tomorrow morning, right?18:05
replaceafillso i can show you what i have18:05
replaceafillbefore the meeting18:05
replaceafilli have a good list of things to deliver for wednesday18:05
replaceafillso i'll work on that18:05
th1aAlso, the whole "the color of the box showing the title of the skill needs to change based on type" thing is just a weird CanDo affectation.18:06
th1aJust make it one color.18:06
replaceafilli think that's it from me18:07
th1aOK.  Thanks replaceafill.  Talk to you tomorrow.18:07
th1aAll right.  Thanks guys.18:08
th1aWe've got to power through these lingering issues...18:08
th1aTry to keep the energy level up.18:08
th1aStay cool.18:08
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:09
replaceafillthanks everybody18:09
aelknerthanks guys, cya thursday18:09
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