IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2012-07-04

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th1ahi yvl, aelkner.16:32
yvlgood morning16:32
th1aOK, so where are we with imports aelkner?16:35
aelkneri just pushed a slew of changes to trunk and created launchpad bugs to bo in CHANGES.txt16:35
aelknerso that menesis can see explanations of the many changes16:36
aelkneri finished adding tests for the new features, and as a last step16:36
aelknerchanged all of the cell get calls for id fields to use the new id getter16:37
aelknerthat rejects numeric fields, and those changes are reflected in the changed errors in the tests16:37
aelknerso, in short, i think that i'm done with the imports16:37
th1aWhat is the text for that error?16:38
aelknernumeric ids must be formatted as text, not numeric:16:38
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th1aNumeric ids must not be numeric?16:39
aelknermust not be formatted numeric16:39
aelknernumbers formatted as text are ok16:39
th1aHow about "ID cells must be formatted as text in the spreadsheet"16:41
aelknerok, i can make that change16:41
th1aYou can reformat cells in LibreOffice by right clicking, correct?16:41
th1aAnyone know how Excel works?16:41
yvlnowadays... no :)16:42
th1aDid you go over the sheets with welsh?16:43
aelknerwhich sheets?16:44
th1aI guess the ones you just did aren't really relevant to him.16:45
aelknerthat's right, they are for other users16:45
th1aOK, so we should go over them after the rest of this.16:45
aelknersure, and i need some new tasks16:45
th1aHow do you feel about working on these search views?16:47
th1aOK, looking back at the planner now...16:48
th1aWe've got:16:49
th1aCanDo > Gradebook interop, which we do need to review.16:49
th1aSkill equivalence view, which I don't want to leap into now at all.16:49
th1aJoe support, which I don't want to think about yet.16:49
th1aDo we have course projects yet?16:50
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th1aWe need some more work on skills document browsing and those skills views.16:50
aelkneri'd ask douglas about course projects i think since he has been doing cando gradebook projects16:51
th1aI don't think we've done those yet.16:51
aelknerbut yes, browsing/searching the skills is a good task for me i think16:51
th1aWe might want to do a little cleanup on the various node/skill and document views first.16:52
th1aThat would be relatively simple.16:52
th1aOK aelkner, let's move onto yvl for now and come back to you.16:53
yvlso my report will be short16:53
yvlsimple tasks and task scheduling work now16:54
yvlI ran changing school title randomly every second, seemt to work nicely16:54
yvlthen again, I'll need to play with more production-like scenarios16:55
yvlcurrently it consumes some 450 MB of RAM just to start up16:55
yvlwith a test environment of our sample data16:56
yvlbut that can be worked out16:56
th1aCurrently meaning after your initial changes>16:56
th1aI should know what it uses in the release version.16:57
yvl+ 450 MB just to have long running processes16:57
th1aWhere is it going?16:57
yvlif you mean what is using up memory, it's basically 4 zope processes16:59
yvlI'm thinking about one of these options:17:00
th1aHow's that different from now?  Threads vs. processes?17:00
yvla short answer is yes17:01
th1aOK, what are the options?17:01
yvlso I'll use either a single threaded process, or configure to have17:02
yvla single process for zope-related things17:02
yvland a multi-process queue for other stuff, like sending emails and such17:03
yvlbut then again, it might be worth using, say, greenlets17:03
yvlI'm actually looking into this now, so no verdict yet17:04
yvlbut yes, there are many options :)17:04
yvlso that's good news17:04
th1aI would think a single zope process will be sufficient for the default case.17:04
yvlbut still, threaded17:05
yvlor greenlets17:05
yvlor something17:05
yvlso, I'll look a bit more into configuration17:06
yvlnext to do -17:06
yvlsome actual implementation and testing environment17:06
yvldo you have any preferences on what you'd like to be managed with a task queue?17:07
th1aThose things.17:08
th1aImports first.17:08
yvlneeded to pick one ;)17:08
yvlso, some import view17:08
th1aThat is the biggest pain point.17:08
* yvl agrees17:08
yvlok, thanks17:09
yvlthis Fri is bank holiday here17:09
yvland I'd like to take next Thu-Fri off if it's ok17:09
yvl(there's an open air event here ;) )17:10
th1aOpen air concert?17:10
th1aAirplane race?17:10
yvlmetal fest :D17:10
yvlAnathema is comming, Lake of Tears also, Warbringer and many many others :)17:11
th1aI might have even heard of Anathema.17:11
* yvl thought so... :)17:12
th1aI remember when my friend played me an import Napalm Death ep in, oh, the summer of 1988.17:12
th1aWe didn't think "This will spawn a long lived genre."17:13
th1aAlthough you may disagree with the lineage.17:13
yvlwell, let's not get into a heated discussion17:14
yvlthese things always lead to heated discussions :)17:14
th1aPerhaps you're talking about more death metal.17:15
th1aLess thrash.17:15
th1aAnyhow.  ;-)17:15
th1aI'm just killing time hoping replaceafill's internet comes up.17:15
yvlso anyway17:15
yvlMegadeth was in Lithuania recently :)17:15
yvl(speaking of trash metal)17:15
yvlis a good summer indeed17:16
yvl(Megadeth is Dave's band after he got kicked out of MetallicA)17:16
th1aYes, I know THAT!17:16
th1aaelkner:  Were we expecting replaceafill this morning?17:17
aelkneryeah, i think so, not welsh later today, but douglas did say he also believed we were meeting this morning17:18
th1aWe'll just assume his internet is down.17:19
th1aAll right, I'll drop the bag of gravel and aelkner and I will continue.17:19
th1aHave a good week and weekend yvl.17:19
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:19
yvlgood luck guys!17:19
aelknerthanks yvl, cya monday17:20
th1aOK... can we call up an instance aelkner?17:21
aelknerwell, my demo instance is missing the new view that douglas made with you last week17:22
th1aThat's ok.17:22
aelknerotherwise, don't you have a bookmark to my demo instance by now?17:23
aelknerit tends to always be running unless something strange is happening on the virtual server17:23
aelkneror i'm loading code changes17:24
th1aOK, so top level changes first.17:24
th1aThere's really no reason for skills, etc., to be under years at all, right?17:25
aelknerthe three links, Skills, Layers and Nodes shouldn't go on the year tab because they are extra-year data17:26
aelkneras is the document17:26
aelknerbut that's already in the menu to the left17:26
th1aOK, so let's make a link at left that says "Skills"17:27
th1aAnd goes to a view with tertiary navigation.17:27
aelknerfor Skils, Nodes and Layers?17:27
th1aDocuments, Skills, Nodes, Layers17:27
th1aIn that order.17:28
aelknerah, yes, so get rid of Documents from the left, replace with Skills17:28
aelknerin the menu i mean by that ofc17:28
aelknerthat's a good use of our flourish paradym i think17:29
aelknerduh, paradigm17:30
aelknerfinally decide to look that one up :)17:30
aelkneranyway, that change would not require complex changes to the views17:31
aelknerso that's a relatively small task17:31
aelknerbut anyway, it cleans up the School tab17:31
aelkneras you saying, 'top level first'...17:32
th1aThere's some simple clean up to the rest of the views.17:33
th1aOK... first the view labeled skills is really skillsets?17:33
th1aSkill Sets?17:34
aelknerso correcting above, Documents, Skills Sets, Nodes, Layers?17:34
th1aSkill Sets17:35
th1aMake sure the search in Skill Sets checks all the skill attributes in finding results.17:35
th1aSkill set attributes.17:36
th1aThe skill description needs to handle html in the description.17:36
th1aOK, nodes.  Nodes need optional labels.17:38
th1aSo that's a data model issue.17:38
aelknerit would be a new field in the Node object17:39
aelknerluckily, adding new fields does not require evolution17:39
aelknerclass attributes provide the default17:40
th1aAlso I see the description shows up as a one line entry instead of a box.17:40
aelknerare you searching the Nodes Container when you say that?17:41
th1aI'm editing a node.17:41
th1a(I jumped ahead)17:41
th1aSo anyhow, the nodes table should have label/title/ layers17:42
aelknerregarding the description, the change you suggested with html is part17:42
th1aAnd if certain parties have 10 nodes with the same label and title that's their own damn problem.17:42
aelkneror changing the way it is presented, so yes, it would need to look different in view17:43
aelknerin the display view as well i mean17:43
aelkneroh wait, you had requested html for skill description17:44
aelknerdoes that apply to nodes as well?17:44
th1aWell, we should probably be consistent.17:44
th1aIt is the kind of thing that doesn't seem necessary until it is.17:44
aelknerwait, now i'm confused17:44
th1aBasically, people like to use bulleted lists in these descriptions.17:44
th1aA lot.17:44
th1aSo yes, make all these descriptions rich text.17:45
aelknergot it17:45
th1aWe need a little formatting help in this node view.17:46
th1aI assume it isn't sufficiently easy to add an accordion, which would be nice here.17:47
aelkneradding an accordion would not be too hard, but how would that look?17:48
aelkneryou mean Parent Nodes, Layers as accordion headers?17:48
th1aJust separate sections for the basic info/parents/layers.17:49
th1aMight cut down on the visual overload.17:49
aelknerlet's see if i can't get around to putting that together by monday meeting for you to look at17:50
aelkneri could just do the nodes view as a what if, prototype17:50
aelknerif we like, we could then do the same for the other objects17:51
th1aThat's not worth spending hours on though.17:51
th1aI"m not even sure it is a good idea.17:51
th1a(the accordion)17:51
aelknerwell, you have to spend the time to see what it would look like17:51
aelkneri don't think it would take more than a couple of hours, but that's your call17:51
aelknerit's just that there are other things17:52
th1aOK, give it a shot.17:52
aelkneranyway, continue17:52
th1aWell, I want to add more accordions anyhow other places, so getting some practice wouldn't be a bad idea.17:52
th1aDon't bang your head against it for hours without asking replaceafill for help though.17:52
th1ajust a sec17:53
aelknersure, i won't get bogged down without asking for help, but i think we have enough samples of accoridon17:54
th1aNow, skills documents still need some love.17:54
aelknerto interrupt a sec:17:55
aelkneri'm surprised you haven't mentioned the container views' tables yet17:55
aelknersome of these columns are not necessaily helping, right?17:55
th1aSo anyhow, the nodes table should have label/title/ layers17:55
aelknerno parents, right17:56
aelknerno description either17:56
aelknerah heck, why am i mentioning these things once at a time, what you said :)17:57
aelknerbtw, in that order?  currently title comes first17:57
th1athat order17:57
aelknerso labels are the new attribute for Node objects17:58
aelkneris that an optional field?17:58
aelknerif so, many cases will have the table with a blank first column17:59
th1aIt is a narrow column, right?17:59
th1aOr have we not limited the size of labels consistently?18:00
aelknerall blank columns come out narrow, yes18:00
aelknerwait, what?18:00
th1aI mean, labels should be limited in size.18:00
th1a5 characters.18:00
th1aIt is kind of the idea of a label.18:00
th1aIn general.18:00
aelkneri'm not sure what the use case is for node labels18:01
aelknerso far, our five char labels have been for the gradebook col headers18:01
th1aWell, basically that's the use for all these labels.18:02
aelknerbut nodes don't go in the gradebook18:02
th1aThat is, they are all meant to be short.18:03
aelknerto be col headers18:03
aelkneri mean in a spreadsheet generally, not just the gradebook18:03
aelkneri'm i guessing your meaning correctly here?18:03
th1aOr in a table in the nodes index, so the first column doesn't take up much space.18:04
aelknerbut what about the purpose of the label?18:04
aelknerin the case of nodes i mean18:04
th1aIt is a short identifier.18:05
aelkneryes, but where it is used, presented, other than the table18:06
th1aWe need it aelkner.18:06
th1aIt just needs to be short.18:06
aelknerok, you don't have to tell me, i'll add it gladly, i was just curious18:07
th1aThe bottom line is these things often have some kind of label in fact, so the data model should reflect that.18:08
th1aAnd they aren't useful if they are too long.18:08
th1aSo they need to be limited.18:08
aelkneri can limit the edit view to five chars18:09
th1aThat's the point.18:09
aelkneri would need to add a column to the import as well18:09
aelkneri could spit out an error if the cell is > 5 chars18:10
th1aThis might be enough for you to chew on for a few days...18:10
aelkneror i could just truncate and not tell the user, your call18:10
th1areturn an error18:10
aelknerok, will do18:10
th1aWe already do it in the gradebook, right?18:10
aelknerwe don't import to the gradebook, but you're probably asking about the edit view18:11
aelkneri don't know, but i'll check, and if not, we'll talk about changing that18:11
aelkneri've been taking notes, so yes, i have plenty of things until monday18:11
th1aOK, we can move onto the document views if you get done too fast.  ;-)18:12
aelknerdon't worry about that, the list of tasks is pretty long already18:13
aelkneri's say let's look at the document views monday18:13
aelknerso are you having a bbq or something today?18:15
th1aNo... teachers don't really celebrate July 4th.18:16
th1aWe stay home.18:16
th1aCelebrate when everyone else is at work.18:17
aelkneri'm just trying to stay cool18:18
aelkneractually, though, it's been cooler here the last couple of days18:19
aelknerbtw, douglas is meeting with welsh tomorrow afternoon, i won't be able to make it18:19
aelkneri will be available for friday afternnoon follow-up18:20
aelkneralso, i'm heading down to jelkner's sunday18:20
aelkneri'll be at the ACC all week so i'll b able to work a little closer with welsh18:21
th1aOK.  You guys really need to keep me in the loop about those discussions, both before and after.18:21
th1aWelsh does not understand the big picture, and we aren't designing something just for Virginia.18:22
aelknerwe have the schooltool.virginia package and we made it clear that some things will go there18:23
aelknerbut it will be a matter of figuring out at some point whether we need a special virginia skin18:23
aelknerto override standard views18:24
th1aWe shouldn't need that.18:24
aelkneradding links to menus can be done without a skin18:24
aelknerwell, we could always add any views (with the custom links) for virgini18:25
aelknereven without a skin18:25
aelknerwe would ust not be overriding the genereal views in that case18:25
aelknerthat's probably what you want anyway, right?18:25
aelknerjust like the special importer, we could have a special browser for them18:26
aelknerskills tree or whatever18:26
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th1aWe shouldn't need anything that special.18:26
* th1a will be back in 5 minutes.18:26
aelknerhey, someone got their internet back18:26
* replaceafill is sick18:27
aelknerah, yes, you were yesterday, sorry you're still under the weather18:28
* replaceafill goes to read the meetings logs18:28
* th1a back18:34
replaceafillth1a, sorry i missed the meeting, i turned my alarm off and went back to bed, i didn't feel well18:37
replaceafilli'm meeting with dwelsh tomorrow to show him the new assign course skills18:38
th1athese meeting should not be scheduled without me.18:38
th1aWhat time?18:40
replaceafill5 pm (your time)18:40
th1aIs that really the only time welsh can meet?18:40
replaceafillbut he said he could be earlier, like 4:3018:40
th1aHow about later?18:41
replaceafilli can meet anytime18:41
th1aI thought he could meet in the evening?18:41
replaceafillhe probably can18:43
th1aWould you like to try to arrange that?18:46
th1aOK, so are you pretty clear on what you're doing now?18:48
replaceafillth1a, question19:28
replaceafilldone buttons, course and term filtering in /sections, tree in person accordions19:28
replaceafillall those should land in trunk, right?19:28
replaceafilli mean, it's ok to do it now?19:28
th1aI think so.19:29
th1aWindows prices are finally coming down:
th1aI wish they'd sell Windows 7 Gaming Edition for like, $50.19:49
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replaceafillaelkner, could you confirm a failure in schooltool/export/ftests/sample_data.txt", line 3222:07
aelknerreplaceafill, how did you catch a failure in that file?22:35
replaceafillrunning the tests22:35
aelknerdid you did --at-level=222:36
aelknernever heard of it22:36
aelknerwho set that one up?22:36
replaceafillyou mean who set "--all"?22:37
aelkneryeah, i've never heard of that one22:37
replaceafillit's part of the test runner options22:38
replaceafill--all               Run tests at all levels.22:38
aelknerwhat's the command line?22:39
replaceafillbin/test --all22:40
aelknerthanks, i can reproduce it now22:41
aelkneri'll fix it22:41

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