IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2012-06-06

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th1aI'm going to reboot to try to detect my headset...16:28
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th1ahi yvl, aelkner, replaceafill, menesis.16:33
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:34
th1aWe're probably not going to have Welsh, so I'll play his role.16:35
th1aSo we'll go through you worksheets in a bit.16:36
yvlhi guys16:36
th1amenesis:  Do you have anything to report?16:36
menesisth1a: no16:36
th1aOK.  Thanks!  Moving on...16:36
replaceafilli only worked on the skills report for the autism center:16:37
replaceafilllogin as teacher001 at:16:37
replaceafillhere's the url to one of the reports:16:37
replaceafillthis version uses yvl's skill history16:38
replaceafillit shows you the first 4 "assessments"16:38
replaceafillfor each skill16:38
aelknershould it perhaps sow the most recent 4 assessments?16:38
replaceafillbut yesterday i realized it's not very much what the autism center needs16:38
th1aCan't we do the same boxes they have?16:39
replaceafillth1a, it wouldn't represent the same16:39
replaceafillas we discussed yesterday16:39
replaceafillthey need 4 grades per skill per assessment16:40
th1aNo, they need more skills.16:40
replaceafillso, i'm working on that idea: more skills16:40
replaceafillmaking each "score" a skill16:40
th1aTo fill in everyone else...16:41
replaceafilland creating many skillsets16:41
th1aEach "skill" is actually evaluated in different social contexts.16:41
th1aFour of them, to be precise.16:41
th1aSo we can either introduce a new concept to the data model,16:42
th1amake the social contexts equivalent to skillsets,16:42
th1aor make the "skills" into skillsets and the contexts the skills.16:42
th1aIf you follow me.16:42
replaceafilli'm working on th1a's second idea16:43
th1aI think conceptually it makes more sense for the contexts to be the skillsets.16:43
th1aExcept for the purposes of the layout of this report, but it is ok to have a custom report.16:43
replaceafillso, i'll finish that and update the instance16:44
* replaceafill done16:44
yvlso I was mainly working on journal16:45
yvlon the todo list... gradebook reports16:46
yvland test if it works with non-manager users ;)16:46
yvland fix broken tests, etc16:46
yvlI've also looked at a CL DB that failed to evolve (the one I had, not the one in LP)16:46
th1aOr you could do awesome skills browser/search.16:47
yvlthe todo16:47
yvlI mean - gradebook reports are broken, because API changed16:47
yvlneed to fix16:47
yvlalso, need to check if a teacher can actually enter a score16:48
th1aYes, what's up with the CL db?16:48
yvlsomething with zope.intid moved from
yvland similar16:48
yvlthey seem to have packaged some versions differently than we had few years ago16:49
yvlin any case, fixable16:49
yvlI assume "the rest" will "just evolve" ;)16:50
th1aOK, well, get that squared away first.16:50
yvlI forgot yesterday16:50
yvlonly took a whack at it oday16:50
yvltoday :)16:50
th1aDid you guys get hangout invites?16:52
yvlhave not checked...16:53
th1aI feel like I'm being watched.17:23
aelknerbig brother is watcing you...17:23
replaceafilli feel like i can't eat my breakfast in a hangout :)17:24
th1aOK, so does aelkner need something to do now?17:24
aelknerhere's what i have on my plate17:24
aelkner1) add text area to importer, filling in with all errors (no truncation) grouped by type17:24
aelkner2) create course_skills.xls for associating the two courses with some skillsets (which ones?)17:26
aelknerother than that, i can't think of anything at the moment17:26
aelknerah, yes17:26
aelknershould we make a schooltool.virginia now?17:27
aelkneri have these python scripts that need a home in launchpad, and they are only for virginia17:27
aelknerso perhaps that would be the best place for them17:27
th1aSounds good to me.17:27
aelknerok, i'll do that, too17:28
aelknerthen i'll figure out what other loose ends i have and take care of them17:28
aelknerthat's al for me17:28
th1aI filed a bug for making breadcrumbs work in documents.17:28
aelknerah, yes, that's it17:29
aelknerthat's a loose end that needs fixing, thanks for reminding me17:29
th1aWe can tie up some loose ends and then get seriously into CanDo reports next week.17:29
aelknercontinue to file any bugs you find while down in virginia and assign to me17:29
th1aOK.  I'm only going to be there a day.17:31
th1aWe did start a CanDo report view at one point, didn't we?17:31
th1aYou might want to reload that into your memory.17:32
th1aAll right, I guess that's it.17:34
th1aCan you be on IRC around 3:00 PM aelkner?17:34
yvl(oh, and CL db seems to have evolved)17:34
aelkneri should be back from my haircut and food shopping by then, so yes17:35
th1aOK.  See you then.17:36
th1aI might need the database wiped or something tweaked.17:36
yvluh, gravel th1a?17:38
th1aSorry, got welsh on the phone now.17:38
yvlah :)17:38
th1aHave a goo week guys.  I'll be in touch.17:38
aelknergreat weekend everyone!17:38
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:38
yvlgood luck, th1a !17:38
aelknerth1a, could you ask welsh what he means by step7 please?17:38
yvlgreat week guys17:38
aelknerth1a, also, i thought of a new task, finding courses view as welsh suggests in step617:43
th1anodes need ids17:43
th1aThat is, user editable ids.17:44
th1aSo we can match them with course id's.17:44
th1aSo make the skillsets here
th1acorrespond to this course
th1a(this is in your import sheet)17:45
th1aAnd associate these skillsets:
th1aWith this course.17:46
* replaceafill goes to pay some bills, bb in 30 mins17:47
th1aYou follow that aelkner?17:51
aelknerjust returned from the head, looking at it now...17:52
aelknerth1a, you gave me two different nodes and only one course17:53
aelknerso every skillset for the node goes with the course in question, right?17:55
aelkneri'll have it for you momentarily17:57
th1aI'm going to have to scoot in about 10 minutes...18:12
* replaceafill is back18:14
* th1a goes to run some errands.18:27
th1areplaceafill:  Welsh wants to show someone the autism demo.18:28
th1aIs it down?18:28
replaceafilllet me give you the url18:29
replaceafillthe url for the report is:18:29
* th1a out.18:29
aelknerreplaceafill, ayt?18:49
replaceafillaelkner, yes18:49
aelkneroh, great, can you look at this link please:18:49
aelknerwit for username18:49
aelknersame password18:49
aelknerdoes that look right to you?18:50
replaceafilli still see the third-nav problem18:50
aelkneri merged the gradebook and cando trunks and restarted my instance18:50
aelknerdid you solve that in core?18:51
aelknerok, maybe it was a while ago and i already had merged18:51
aelkneri'll have to pull that to my instance18:51
replaceafillif you set up core, gradebook trunk and cando trunk, the gradebook looks fine18:51
aelknerah, much better, thanks!18:53
replaceafillnow looks good :)18:53
aelkneryeah, i had merged already, just didn't pull to my instance, thought i had18:53
replaceafillthe labels in the skillsets are the same18:54
replaceafill001, 002, 00318:54
replaceafillmaybe the cte database doesn't have "local ids"...18:55
aelknerreplaceafill, i set the labels programatically because i didn't see any local ids in the verso data19:03
aelkneri think lee caps always did the same when generating the xml file for old cando19:04
replaceafilli thought they were meaningful for david19:04
aelknerthey are needed for column header, but really it's the rollover text that is most important19:05
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replaceafillth1a, i have a question21:41
replaceafillcould we create a score like: 0,1,1,021:42
replaceafillfor each skill in the autism center case?21:42
replaceafilla multiscore score :D21:42
th1aA tuple?21:42
replaceafilljust strings like: 0,0,0,121:42
th1aI don't think I want to go in that direction.21:42
replaceafillah ok21:43
th1aWe could add something to the data model.21:43
replaceafillit was just an idea :)21:43
th1aOne similar case which we don't really address is if you had a standard which you wanted to assess at different levels.21:43
th1aLike if you had a reading comprehension standard that was the same at each grade level but assessed to a different standard each year.21:44
th1a(I'm not saying that is entirely logical, but possible)21:44
replaceafillfor now we'll go with the one skillset per social setting, correct?21:45
th1aI think that's best.21:45
th1aIt isn't set in stone.21:45
replaceafillwhat are we going to use for the scores in the scoresystem?21:46
replaceafillsince now the old scores become skillsets21:47
replaceafillthe assesment number?21:47
replaceafilllike they do21:47
replaceafillor just an "X"?21:47
th1aOld scores?21:48
replaceafillwe won't use 1,2,3,4 representing the social settings for the scores right?21:48
th1aWell, the report will have to be weird because it will have to invert the normal skillset/skill relationship.21:49
th1aSo yes, it will look like the score is applied to the skillset.21:49
th1aIs that what you're saying?21:49
th1aBut it really won't.21:49
th1aIt will look normal in the gradebook too.21:50
th1aJust kind of inverted in this report, right?21:50
replaceafilli'm trying to follow the inverted part21:50
th1aI'm just saying the row will be the skill: "Eye Contact"21:51
th1aAnd then the cells will be the social setting I-to-1 etc,21:51
th1aWhich are actually skillsets.21:51
th1aJust in the report.21:52
replaceafillgot it21:52
replaceafillin the gradebook, we still will have 4 worksheets, right?21:52
replaceafillwhat do you input in the cell?21:53
replaceafillin the gradebook cell21:53
th1aIn the gradebook the social setting = skillset = tab.21:53
th1askill = row.21:53
replaceafillskill = column?21:54
th1aOh, right.21:56
replaceafillwhat do you type in the cell for each assessment?21:56
replaceafillmy point is that the "current" score system doesn't make sense anymore in the new layout21:57
replaceafill1 doesnt mean "1:1" anymore, 2 doesn't mean "S"21:57
replaceafilland so on21:57
th1aOh, good lord.21:57
replaceafillsorry th1a21:57
replaceafilli'm just confused in that part (score system)21:57
th1aI'm not cursing you.21:58
th1aOh, shit.21:58
th1aAh, I see.21:59
th1aSo it is just pass/fail, essentially.21:59
replaceafillthat's why i recommended a plain "X"21:59
th1aThey'll just want to call it something different, but pass/fail will do for now.21:59
aelknerth1a, i see you're in the middle of something, i'll be standing by22:00
th1aAt least now I understand why I was confused for the past day.22:00
replaceafilli'll go with pass/fail then, thanks th1a22:01
* replaceafill done22:01
aelknerth1a, did you get my email?22:02
th1aYeah, let me try that.22:03
aelknerwait for user22:03, same password22:03
aelkneryou could also log in as manager to see the course skills view22:04
aelknerbut i know the gradebook is more interesting to you22:04
th1aAre the tabs working for you, aelkner?22:04
aelkneryeah, not for you?22:05
th1areplaceafill:  the tabs don't work for me if I do the above link as manager but they do if I'm the teacher.22:06
aelknerfirefox, chrome, did you reload resources with ctrl shift r (for firefox, i believe)22:06
aelkneroh manager22:06
aelkneri didn't try getting to the gradebook as manager22:06
replaceafillth1a, i see it22:07
replaceafilli'll fix it22:07
th1aaelkner:  It isn't your problem.22:07
aelknerbtw, i remembered what else i can do next, direct course search22:08
aelknerbut i see it in a more general sense, 'search terminal nodes'22:08
th1aWhat attributes do skillsets have?22:08
th1aIt isn't really different than the nodes search which already exists.22:08
aelknerthat search will return all nodes that match, say, a title search22:09
th1aYou need to make that nodes index sane.  The giant list of parents and skillsets is not really usable22:09
aelkneri think it would be better to search for them from the document view22:09
th1aI don't think that's much of a problem.22:09
aelknerthe doc knows the hierachy22:09
aelknerok, that's fine22:09
aelknerbut yes, the node views need some love, too22:10
th1aDo skillsets have labels or id's?22:11
aelknerdef __init__(self, title, external_id=u'', label=u'')22:11
aelknerfor skills, i set the labels, 001, 002, programatically22:12
aelknernothing in the verso db had those numbers, it's just the index expresses as 3-digit string22:12
th1aSomeone needs to write some skillset labels.  ;-)22:12
th1a(not aelkner)22:13
aelknersomewhere in the verso db would be a good place for it, is that what you're thinking?22:13
aelknerthen we would just pull it down from there22:13
th1aOr whatever.22:14
aelknerold cando didn't mind because we used drop-down instead of tab22:15
replaceafillaelkner, th1a i just pushed the fix for the manager+gradebook issue22:15
aelknerso, basically, we introduced a fancy feature (tabs) that forces them to consider a new concept (short title)22:15
th1aIt isn't that fancy.22:16
aelkneror we could just create A, B, C for them with rollover text for the actual skillset title22:16
th1aThere's really no way around the fact that sometimes these things don't have titles and that's always a disaster.22:16
th1aIn practice I just always made them up.22:17
aelknerlike codes are made up22:18
* replaceafill goes to get lunch, bb in 30 mins22:18
aelknerDWPR -> Demonstrating Workplace Readiness...22:18
aelknerit's always someone in the admin office that codifies things, in this case noone in Richmond cares about codifying skillsets22:19
th1aOK, I guess you should wipe the database so it is ready for tomorrow.22:32
aelknerok, wiping...22:34
aelknerdon't forget to include the resource xls in the demo22:35
aelknerbtw, what time tomorrow will you be doing the run-through do you think?22:35
th1aI'm not sure.22:36
th1aI would be good if you were around late morning.22:36
aelknerthat's why i asked22:36
aelknerok, late morning, i'll be on the chat22:36
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