IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2012-06-04

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th1aHi replaceafill, aelkner, yvl, menesis.16:31
yvlgood morning16:32
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:33
th1aOK, so this week we want to get real dwelsh data into a CanDo instance on Wednesday, and then I'm flying down for a meeting with welsh and people from this autism project on Thursday.16:34
th1aSo there is a lot going on.16:34
th1aAlso we seem to have some new bugs to deal with.16:34
th1aSo let's get rolling.16:34
yvlI replaced journal's grade storage with evaluations (i.e. gradebook score systems)16:36
yvltheres still some work left16:36
yvllike actually calculating averages properly and so on16:36
yvland I'll have to split the views into attendance and grading separately16:37
yvlsomewhat like skills/projects in cando16:37
th1aI suppose that makes sense.16:37
th1aDo you have any thoughts about how it might be *different* than what we did in CanDo?16:38
yvlsorry, no16:39
th1aI just wouldn't want it to be subtly inconsistent.16:39
yvlah, ok16:39
yvlwell, some code will still be inconsistent16:39
yvlbut much closer to other gradebooks16:40
th1aOh, that's fine.16:40
yvland UI should match16:40
yvlso this is what I'll be working on for the next few days16:41
th1aOK.  Something more urgent might come up... we'll see.16:41
menesislast week I have created 2.1 branches and directory16:42
menesisto prepare for bugfix releases16:42
menesischerry-picked schooltool bugfixes from flourish branch16:42
menesisfixed one evolution bug that Helder reported16:43
menesisbut that was something different than the issue they had16:44
menesisbut yvl told me about their issue and has the database16:45
th1aSo what do we know about that issue at this point?  yvl?16:45
menesisthey have (long removed dependency) objects in their database16:46
menesisbut I have yet to see that problem16:46
yvldb sent16:47
menesisthen we have two small issues with core schooltool that we workaround in philippines project16:47
menesisand maybe more. would be very good to include all this in 2.1.1 bugfix release16:48
menesisanything else that needs to be included?16:50
th1aWell, you have to ask Intelli about changes written for them.16:50
th1aThere is a new report layout bug aelkner needs to look at.16:50
th1aI need to get this evolve error sorted out asap.16:50
th1aThat should probably be yvl's top priority.16:50
menesisthat's gradebook, I have not looked if anything can be considered a bugfix in recent gradebook changes, yet16:52
th1aNot that I can think of offhand... replaceafill?16:52
replaceafilli don't think so16:52
replaceafillthe css maybe, but i dont think that's useful for 2.1 anymore16:52
replaceafilllike the bugs related to extra space in the cells16:53
menesisI have seen gradebook and journal with the new core and it looks totally broken16:54
menesisbut if you mean that cells colored background does not fill whole cell16:54
replaceafillusing the 3 trunks?16:54
menesisthat would be good16:54
menesisreplaceafill: no, schooltool trunk but 2.1 journal16:55
replaceafillyes, sorry about that :(16:55
replaceafillyou need trunk now for them16:55
replaceafillthis is the one i meant:
replaceafillthat's still in 2.116:55
aelknercan i ask a question about CHANGES.txt?16:56
aelkneris (LP: #995615) enough?16:57
aelkneror do we want (
aelkneri prefer the first, but we have been using the second one too16:57
aelknerany thoughts?16:57
menesisit is a .txt file, so having full links you can click on them in terminal16:58
th1aI like full links.16:58
replaceafilli used LP: #... in commit messages16:59
menesisbut when posting the changelog on launchpad I replace them with LP: #16:59
menesisbecause that's shorter17:00
menesisit's ok in commit messages17:00
aelkneri'm referring to this recent addition:17:00
aelknerFix a rare failure when upgrading from gradebook <= 0.9.0 (LP: #995615)17:00
aelknershould i fix that to have the full link?17:01
replaceafilloops sorry17:01
menesiseither way, I review the CHANGES.txt and bzr log and add/fix whatever I think is better before release17:01
menesisdon't worry about that17:01
aelknerhey, sis anyone notice, we crossed the million bugs mark!17:02
aelkneri didn't see any balloons falling from the sky, or what you would see for the millionth customer in a super-market :)17:02
menesisyes, and the millionth bug is about schools :)17:03
replaceafilledubuntu, right?17:03
th1aOK, so...17:04
th1aDo we have to do something to straighten out CSS in 2.1.1?17:04
menesisaelkner: you don't read planet ubuntu, or you would see that :)
aelknerah, it's not our millionth, it's launchpad's17:06
replaceafillth1a, i could try backporting the css changes to 2.1.117:06
th1aIndeed.  :-D17:06
* replaceafill imagines if *we* had 1 million bugs remaining!17:06
menesisreplaceafill: I see 'Merged gradebook refactorings' as one commit17:06
th1aApparently something must be done replaceafill.17:06
menesisnot a merge of your branch17:06
replaceafillmenesis, my branch history was nuts17:07
menesisso it was on purpose17:07
replaceafilllots of unnecessary syncs17:07
replaceafillthat i know you dont like :)17:07
replaceafillyes, so i only took the diff17:07
replaceafilland merged it17:07
replaceafilli can apply the css changes to 2.117:08
replaceafillat least for the gradebook17:08
replaceafillthat's the most noticeable i can think of17:08
menesisreplaceafill: if you could do it, would be great17:09
replaceafillmenesis, sure, should i do it before a specific date?17:09
replaceafilli mean, in case you're planning a release17:09
menesisI don't see any css changes in gradebook...17:10
replaceafillthey're in schooltool trunk17:10
replaceafillgradebook and journal share the resources17:10
menesisso I did not notice and skipped that17:10
menesisprobably went together with other css changes17:11
menesisthere is no date for the bugfix release yet17:11
replaceafillah ok, i could do that at the end of the week then?17:12
th1aPerhaps we should shoot for releasing this early next week.17:12
menesisphilippines schools start June 1217:14
th1aOK.  We'll discuss next Monday figuring on a Tuesday release.17:14
th1aHow's that all looking, btw menesis?17:14
menesisnone of those bugfixes are critical for them17:14
menesisbut yes I'll target early next week17:16
menesisth1a: ignas works very fast!17:16
menesisso it looks good and on target now17:16
th1aOK.  Anything else for now menesis?17:17
menesisthat's all17:18
th1aThanks menesis.17:19
replaceafillmenesis, thanks for reminding me about my journal branch17:19
replaceafilli merged that17:19
replaceafillalso, last week i found a bug in the advisory accordion in the person index17:19
replaceafillso i fixed that too17:20
replaceafilli'm about to merge the IEP work17:20
replaceafilland will set up a instance so you can see it17:20
replaceafilli also met with the ministry of education people last week17:20
replaceafillwe came up with a plan to deploy schooltool in a few schools here17:21
replaceafilli'll train their IT staff on how to install it, set it up, etc17:21
replaceafillon thursday-friday from 10:00-12:00 am17:21
yvlawesome news, replaceafill :)17:22
replaceafillwhile i was preparing a demo for them i found another bug in the person index view17:22
replaceafillrelated to the photo field17:22
replaceafilli'm about to fix that one, but i don't if my way of testing it is the best17:23
replaceafillyvl, can i ask you about it?17:23
replaceafillit's a permission issue on the open method of the zope.file.File object17:23
replaceafillwe're using zope.file's security declarations17:23
replaceafillwhich require zope.ManageContent (iirc)17:23
replaceafillso i've been adding stests for most of the bugfixes i commit17:24
replaceafilland i was thinking of adding a photo to a person and then making the browser use .open(url_photo) directly17:24
replaceafilland check the server's log for the permission error?17:24
replaceafilli mean Server -> Errors17:25
replaceafilli could also check that i don't get the log in form17:25
replaceafillmy point is:17:25
replaceafilli'd like to know the content-type of the response :)17:26
replaceafillbut i think selenium can't do that, right17:26
yvlnever tried that17:26
yvlit should17:26
replaceafillah, really?17:26
replaceafillok, i'll try it then :)17:26
replaceafillit's way better than my brute force check :P17:26
replaceafilllast week i also tested ST on the Browse activity in Sugar17:27
replaceafill(the OS in the OLPCs)17:27
replaceafillsome of the schools here in El Salvador only have OLPCs17:27
replaceafilland they're going to be part of the pilot17:27
replaceafillth1a, did you see the screenshots?17:28
th1aDo they have XO specific servers.17:28
replaceafillth1a, some of them17:28
replaceafillnot all17:28
yvlini any case, it would be best to test, that photos are there - in any reasonable way - other than testing for login pages and whatnot17:28
replaceafillyvl, what would be a reasonable way using selenium?17:29
th1aYes, the screenshots look fine.17:29
* yvl shrugs, replaceafill :D17:29
th1aLooks like we picked the right size.17:29
replaceafillyvl, :D17:29
replaceafillth1a, we were only missing css for the select elements17:29
replaceafillthe first screenshots show huge fonts because of that17:30
replaceafilli fixed that in trunk17:30
th1aThat could go in the bugfix.17:30
replaceafilland finally, i check the issue aelkner mentioned on wednesday demo17:30
replaceafillth1a, ah true17:30
replaceafillaelkner, was right17:30
replaceafillif you have a student in two sections for the same course17:31
replaceafilland you grade a skill, you'll get the same evaluation17:31
th1aSee it in both?  In different years?17:32
aelknerold or new cando?17:32
replaceafilli didn't try different years, just different terms17:32
replaceafillaelkner, new cando17:32
replaceafillaelkner, didn't try the old one17:32
aelknerare you saying that grading a skill in two places updates the same evaluation in new cando?17:33
aelknermy point was that new cando wouldn't whereas old cando would17:33
replaceafillaelkner, if the two places are different sections of the same course, yes17:33
aelknerah, because the course skill is the object being evaluated17:34
aelknerbut that's different from using the global id for evaluations as we did in old cando17:34
aelknerthe atvantage of that was that the evaluation was not tied to an object instance17:34
aelknerbut something more global between instance, i.e., the global id17:34
th1aI don't think that is a big deal, but it would be nice to be able to pin a score to a project.17:35
th1aAnd worth at least a few days worth of work.17:35
th1aHere's the issue.17:35
th1aI'd like to be able to look at the scores for a project without having them overwritten by later scores from the skillset gradebook.17:36
th1aAny thoughts on that?17:36
yvldoesn't it work that way?17:36
yvlprojects should always create new, equivalent skills17:36
th1aI don't think so...17:36
th1aOh, maybe we should try!17:37
replaceafillyvl, i have to fix the projects gradebook17:37
replaceafillon the projects gradebook, the user creates the skill17:37
replaceafilli need to let him "select" instead17:37
replaceafillso it will be the same skills from the course17:37
yvlbut even then17:37
yvlnever assign the same skill17:37
yvlif it's the same skill - it's the same grade17:38
replaceafillthat's what th1a want to change (i think)17:38
yvlhe wants to have them overwritten?17:38
replaceafillin the context of projects, skills should have their own grade17:39
replaceafillin the context of skills gradebook, another grade17:39
replaceafillam i right, th1a?17:39
th1aI think we all agree.17:39
yvlso if you want to have what you said17:39
yvlyou can't select a skill from the course directly17:39
yvlyou have to select a skill, make a duplicate, make those equivalent17:39
replaceafillwe could duplicate in projects?17:40
yvlwe must17:40
yvlwe should at least17:40
yvlwell, that was the idea17:40
replaceafillhey, i didn't thought about equivalents :O17:40
replaceafillare equivalents for this usecase?17:40
yvlfor this usecase also17:40
replaceafilli thought equivalents were like a change from 2012 to 201317:40
yvlthey also can be used for revised skills17:41
yvland so on17:41
aelkneralso for when the tree changes drastically from year to year17:41
aelknerthe revisions, yes17:41
replaceafillyvl, so i could add the duplicate logic while i fix the projects gradebook17:41
replaceafillto allow the user to "select" the skill17:41
replaceafillinstead of creating it17:41
replaceafillth1a, that's all from me17:42
replaceafilli'm going to make these changes to the cando gradebook17:42
yvlreplaceafill, what you'll need to do17:43
yvlis simply select a skill17:43
yvl(it will make a copy)17:43
replaceafillah yes17:43
yvland then make them equivalent17:43
th1aWould you like to put that aside for a day or two and try to knock together a rough version of the reports the autism people use?17:43
yvlmuch like project skill deployment17:43
replaceafillyvl, the equivalent part is the one i'm not familiar with yet17:44
th1aSince we'll be meeting with them on Thursday?17:44
replaceafillth1a, do we have their reports?17:44
replaceafilli can update the styles while i'm on it, vinny sent new measures17:45
th1areplaceafill:  Yes.17:45
th1aWe can do it all with colored divs.17:45
replaceafillth1a, ok17:45
th1aD3 craziness would be overkill.17:45
replaceafilloh, these will be web reports?17:46
th1aOK, I'll send you those -- yes, for now.17:46
replaceafillah ok17:46
th1aThe content of the reports themselves will be easy, so the demo should be quick.17:46
replaceafilldo they have their own skills?17:47
th1aThe other 20% of handling stupid edge cases will take up the rest of the 80%.17:47
th1aYes... I'll get those to you too.17:47
th1aThanks replaceafill.17:47
th1aLast but not least, replaceafill.17:48
th1aI mean,17:49
th1alast but not least aelkner.17:49
aelknerah, i thought you were going to ask replaceafill one last question :)17:49
th1aSpaced out there...17:49
aelknerok, so i started with addressing the FlatSectionTable round-trip error we got in the demo last wed17:49
aelknerturns out that the sample data file that i used to set up our instance had a section with no courses17:50
aelknerwe don't allow the user to edit courses yet in the ui, so there is no way for them to have zero courses17:51
aelknerso i figured we shouldn't support that in imports either, so i changes the old sections importer to throw and error17:51
aelknerit already did if they had no Courses section, but not if they had an empty one!17:51
aelknerjust in case, i changed FlatSectionsTable export to skip sections with no courses to prevent the round-trip problem17:52
aelknerthere really isn't a reason to have a section with no course, right?17:53
th1aSo you really just couldn't do import - export - import?17:53
th1aWell, probably it shouldn't actually cause errors.17:54
aelknerthat's the roundtrp that you correctly told welsh we needed to fix17:54
th1aI mean, you wouldn't run into that just doing export - import.17:54
th1aYou'd have to start with import.17:54
th1aI'm just noting that.17:54
* th1a pretty much just shrugs over the no course section.17:55
aelknerwell, i pretected against it, so we shouldn't have a problem ow17:55
th1aAnyhow, what you did should be ok.17:55
aelknernext i changed the boolean field import to support yes and no, the second part of the round-trip problem17:55
aelknerthe consecutive column of the FlatSectionsTable uses yes and no as it does in the old sections importer17:56
aelkneri don't see why we can't support true/false (true bolean), true/false text as well as yes/no17:56
th1aIt would be nice to support XLS booleans.17:57
aelknerthat's what i meant be tru boolean17:57
aelknerit does17:57
aelknerok, i finished adding the task data to the verso_skills.xls file17:58
th1aSo I guess you really don't see why we can't support it.  You can see we do support it!17:58
aelkneranyway, i decided to dynamically create labels for the skills that mirror the old cando17:59
aelkner001, 002, 003...17:59
aelknerand i used them as the __name__ for the skills as well, wy not17:59
aelknerthe id attribute of the task is the global id, so i used that for filling in external_id18:00
aelknerso it looks the the same uri that old cando uses for global id18:00
aelknerfor example,
aelknerfinally, tasks have a description, cte calls it definition18:01
aelknerstatement is what i used for title which is a simple sentence18:02
aelknerdefinition in the cte tasks is a long paragraph of how to test or demonstrate the skill18:02
aelkneri figured that would be appropriate for the description18:03
aelknerdoes that make sense?18:03
th1aUh... I suppose?18:03
aelknerok, here's the thing though:18:03
aelknerthe defintion has html tags in it18:04
aelkner<br /> and <ul><li...>18:04
aelkneri would need to parse that out18:04
aelknerso, would it be better to never mind having the description, or should i just parse out the html tags18:05
aelknerbtw, adding the description greatly increased the size of the xls file and the duration of the import18:05
aelknerbut that's not necessarily a problem18:05
th1aIs the description in addition to the title?18:05
aelknertitle is the sentence, they call it statement18:06
aelknerdescription is whatever, i thought i'd use definition18:06
aelknerthat's all i'm saing18:06
th1aCan't we just display the html?18:06
aelknerwe could change the form field to be a ckeditor field if you think that is a good idea18:07
th1aI don't know that we need to go that far but can't we display it if it is imported that way?18:09
aelkneri'm not sure what you're saing18:10
aelknerwe have a field that is editable18:10
aelknerso if we support having html in it, we should have the ckeditor18:10
th1aYou're saying "oh we need to get rid of this html" and I don't know why we need to.18:10
th1aYes, in theory we should have ckeditor there I guess.18:11
aelkneroh, we don't have to if you think it's ok18:11
aelknerok, i'll look into having it be an html field18:11
th1aIt is just a matter of how much time it is.18:11
aelkneri don't know, but we've done html editing before, so it shouldn't be that big of a task18:12
th1aok fine18:12
aelknerok, moving on, then, i was wondering, should we change the sample data xls files to have one FlatSectionsTable sheet rather than the old sections sheets?18:13
aelknerwe still support the old sheets, but we don't need to serve them up as examples, right?18:14
yvlaelkner, true, we do have handleparagraphs or some similar helper out there in the code18:14
yvljust for reference18:14
aelknerit's in the comments score system editing, yes18:14
aelknerok, finally, i found and fixed the Report Card Layout bug18:15
aelknerit had to do with handling no years set up18:15
aelknernow the link won't render, and if the user tpes the url directly, it redirects back to /manage18:15
aelkneroh, and i've been thinking about the importer errors textarea that we discussed18:16
aelknercurrently, we collect the errors and only display the first 25, you had suggested having a testarea with all18:17
aelknersomething they could cut and paste into email, etc.18:17
aelknershould there be a limit to how many errors we put in the testarea field?18:18
aelkneri mean, for huge imports the errors could be in the many thousands, in theory18:18
th1aNot really, but I think we should summarize them by type.18:18
aelknerok, will do18:19
aelknerwhat about partial commits18:19
aelknerpresently the importer does a rollback if any errors occur18:19
th1aYeah... I still tend to favor that.  Other opinions?18:20
aelknerthat's pretty standard importing convention, but welsh had requested partial commit18:20
aelknerif we offer the textarea errors, should that be enough?18:21
th1aI think it is safer to not do partial.18:21
aelkneri agree18:22
aelknerperhaps welsh won't mind the rollback if the errors are complete18:22
th1aIt helps.18:22
aelknerok, that's it for me18:22
th1aSo... where do we stand now with dwelsh's imports overall?18:24
th1aHe's going to come up with sheets.18:24
th1aFor everything other than comps?18:24
aelkneri guess we'll see where we stand when he comes up with the sheets18:24
th1aI'll be talking with him on the phone.18:25
th1aOK, I'll talk to him this afternoon and then give you a call aelkner.18:25
aelkneri'll email you the new xls files, one was just adding the course attribute headers18:25
th1aDid the format of anything change since last week?18:25
aelkneroh, i saw your google doc18:26
aelknerone thing you had wrong was alternate course title18:26
th1aThat was welsh's.18:26
aelkneroh, sorry, thought you wrote it, never mind18:27
th1aOh, I know.  Can you set up the custom demographics for VA?18:27
th1aIf there is any.18:27
th1aWas there any in the old CanDo?18:27
replaceafill_ethnicity_codes = {18:28
replaceafill    'a': _('Asian'),18:28
replaceafill    'b': _('Black'),18:28
replaceafill    'h': _('Hispanic'),18:28
replaceafill    'i': _('American Indian'),18:28
replaceafill    'u': _('Unspecified'),18:28
th1aaelkner:  Can you set that up please?18:28
replaceafill    'w': _('White'),18:28
replaceafill    }18:28
th1aIt is in the doc.18:28
th1aAlso adding the additional fields to course import, right?18:28
* th1a is finding Welsh's notes to be helpful. ;-)18:28
aelknerth1a, by set up, you mean set up my demo instance?18:29
aelknerthe process that needs to occur in their live instance eventually is that they18:29
th1aYes and get the revised sheets out.18:29
aelknerneed to set up the demos fields first18:29
th1aWe need to have a VA package that does it for them.18:29
th1aSo that's on the short list of things to do regardless.18:30
aelkneri could manually set up my instance with the right demo fields for now18:30
aelknerand update the teachers and students sheets to have the demo columns18:30
aelknerusing limit_keys, etc.18:31
aelknerare we having another google hangout with welsh wed?18:32
th1aAh, yes, probably.18:32
aelknerand demo the whole process again, or should i say, let him run the imports?18:32
th1aPretty much.18:34
aelknerwe'll start with an empty db with the demos set up18:34
th1aAll right, let's wrap this up...18:35
th1aI've been looking a bit more into the issue of embedded systems for SchoolTool, mostly because it makes sense for Intelli to have a cheap ID scanning appliance that would communicate with a SchoolTool server.18:36
th1aAlthough I'm kind of reaching the conclusion that an Android app would probably be the best approach for it.18:37
th1aOK, so let's count on Wednesday, regular time, and probably a hangout starting a half hour in, but hopefully not taking terribly long.18:38
th1aSee you Wednesday.18:38
th1aThanks guys!18:38
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:38
replaceafillthanks everybody18:39
aelknercya guys wed18:39
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replaceafillsorry, got disconnected for a while :(19:23
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th1areplaceafill:  I'll send you the autism stuff.19:26
replaceafillth1a, kk19:26
replaceafillth1a, is it more convenient for you to use my gmail address?19:27
th1aOh, I don't know.  I just started doing that for some reason.19:27
replaceafilli don't check that one very often19:27
th1aAlso, you should have some of this already.19:28
th1aI'll stick to your yahoo.19:28
th1aThis is just an individual student view.19:28
th1a(for the purposes of the demo)19:29
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replaceafillth1a, this report is for this week?!?!19:36
replaceafillsomehow i thought it was for next week :)19:37
th1aWell... it would be nice.  ;-)19:58
replaceafilli'm creating the cando skills xls now19:58
th1aDo you see the basic structure of the report.20:00
th1aSkillsets in columns.20:00
th1aA row per skill.20:00
th1aA cell per level of acheivement?20:00
th1aThat right?20:00
replaceafilllike in the SSA.demo.xlsx file, right?20:01
replaceafillBasicSkills sheet20:01
th1aThere's nothing inherently complicated about it.20:01
replaceafillah just one20:02
replaceafillthe score system20:02
replaceafillwe need a custom one for them20:02
th1a(I guess)20:02
replaceafilli'll look into it20:02
replaceafillor we can always hardcode their values for the demo ;)20:02
* replaceafill is lost in a sea of spreadsheet windows....20:03
th1aThere's nothing weird about their score system is there?20:03
replaceafillth1a, just David's comment about them not being hierarchical20:04
th1aWhich not being hierarchical?20:04
th1aJust flat?20:04
th1aYes, it is just document > skillset > skill20:04
replaceafill"As for their scoring system, they basically use a five point system as we do:"20:04
replaceafillno i mean, their score system20:05
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replaceafillBUT, their scores are not necessarily hierarchical.  In other words, a score of 2 (Structure Group) does not necessarily mean the student can perform the skill at a 1 (One-to-One Setting)."20:05
replaceafillthat may affect standard cando reports20:05
replaceafillbut let's not worry about that bridge now :D20:05
replaceafilli'll first finish this skills xls :)20:05
* th1a goes to make lunch.20:08
th1aDo we use this?
replaceafilli don't think so20:49
replaceafilldo you have any year, term specific needs?21:04
th1aI don't know.21:05
th1aWhy is the title appended to the external id?21:05
replaceafillit comes like that from dwelsh xls21:05
th1aLet's assume that's wrong.21:06
replaceafillok, i'll remove it21:06
th1aCan you make a quick tweak to the table in the skills view?21:08
th1aIt just needs label and title.21:08
th1aaelkner tries to jam too much in there...21:08
replaceafillth1a, reload21:16
replaceafilljust label and title21:16
replaceafillok, i'll go get lunch and finish this in the afternoon21:17
th1aaelkner:  ayt?22:01
* replaceafill is back22:05
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