IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2012-02-01

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yvlit seem we've lost th1a16:40
yvl* seems16:40
replaceafillyvl, can you take a look at my dates idea?16:40
replaceafillit's kind of dumb, i'm sure you'll have a better solution :)16:41
replaceafillyou can see it here:
replaceafillgo to Server and choose one of the first two formats for dates16:41
replaceafilli have a problem with the 3rd one16:42
replaceafillsince it involves month names16:42
replaceafillthen add a school year for example16:42
replaceafillthe datepicker should change it's format according to the preference16:42
replaceafilland the schoolyear index view too16:43
aelknerhey guys, when are your arriving in virginia, sat morning?16:43
replaceafillaelkner, friday16:44
replaceafilli think yvl arrives around 3, and i arrive at 516:44
aelknerah, ok, so friday is travel day16:44
aelkneri wonder if i'm needed to pick people up16:45
yvlthanks Alan16:46
yvlthis time... public transport FTW!16:46
yvlas for the date widget...16:48
yvlyou know...16:48
yvlmaybe we could hack the widget to display the date in whatever format, but use iso format in a hidden field?16:49
yvlor we won't have the human readable format16:49
replaceafilli vote for not having formats that need i18n16:50
replaceafillyou know16:50
replaceafilli thought that zope.i18n could help, but it's too much mess16:51
replaceafillthe datepicker for some reason, shows unicode chars sometimes16:51
replaceafillwell, for some reason = the translations have unicode entities16:52
replaceafillbut yvl what would be the advantage of the hidden field?16:53
yvlwell, you could display whatever in the text field16:54
yvllike 02 Février, 201216:54
yvlbut scrap that16:54
yvlit's better if we have numeric only formats16:54
replaceafilli also wanted the converter to use the preferences, so we could use z3c.form for display16:55
replaceafilllike the FormViewlet i used in the schoolyear view16:55
* yvl is somewhat distracted after toying with Selenium all day16:57
replaceafill:) np16:57
replaceafillhow's that coming?16:57
yvlbut the diff looks good from the first glance16:57
replaceafillwe... can talk about it during the sprint ;)16:57
yvlwell, let's start with... you have to pin zope.testrunner to 1.3.016:58
yvland I don't want to talk why without a beer :D16:58
replaceafilli noticed the selenium tests dont run in the current trunk16:58
replaceafillyou get 'selenium not configured' messages16:58
yvlwell they do16:58
replaceafillor is just me?16:58
yvlpeople FIXED stuff16:59
yvladd this:16:59
yvlselenium = 2.18.116:59
yvlzc.recipe.testrunner = 1.3.016:59
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yvland they will run16:59
replaceafillah! cool, i'll try that16:59
yvlI pushed a small update, btw16:59
yvlshould fix the lang problem16:59
yvlhi th1a!16:59
th1aI apparently got a little too wrapped up on my pre-trip todo list.17:00
th1aAnd forgot the meeting!17:00
yvlwell, we can start now17:02
yvlgood morning/evening th1a, aelkner, replaceafill, menesis17:02
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon17:02
* th1a is reading the log.17:02
* replaceafill is trying the selenium changes17:03
replaceafillyvl, ah! so you can access the dialog from a different element?17:05
replaceafilli mean in a stest17:05
yvlwell, yes17:05
yvlit's in DOM17:05
th1aCan the calendar widget work with multiple fields, like if there was a separate field for each of day month year but one widget fills all three?17:05
yvlyou can access directly, or with a helper17:05
replaceafillyvl, ah!17:05
yvlas in - select some element, then re-use17:05
yvlI don't think so, th1a17:06
th1aJust wondering.17:06
yvlbut, you know.17:07
yvleverything can be hacked  :)17:07
th1aCould we limit the import formats to just numeric ones (i.e., separate input and output formats).17:07
yvlyes, we could17:08
yvlor we could do with two settings17:08
yvlinput format17:08
yvland human-readable display17:08
yvluse the display for /@@shortDate and others17:09
yvli.e. to display not in forms17:09
yvland even use human readable in forms where the field is not editable17:09
yvli.e. different display and input widgets17:10
th1aOK.  We should probably defer this to the sprint to try to resolve it.17:10
aelknerth1a, for friday, is my car needed?17:10
th1aI don't think so.17:10
aelknerso i should meet everyone at the hotel friday evening?17:11
th1aIf we do need a car we can hit up your brother or welsh.17:11
th1aWell, I guess not during school.17:11
aelknerreplaceafill said he arrives friday17:11
yvlwe've booked from Saturday, right?17:11
replaceafilli get there friday at 517:12
th1ayvl: Oh...17:12
th1aLet me call about that.17:12
* replaceafill was thinking asking jelkner for his couch17:12
* yvl booked another hotel for friday night17:12
* replaceafill should have booked a hotel :P17:13
th1aDid I tell you I was booking a room for Friday replaceafill?17:13
replaceafillth1a, no17:13
replaceafillthat's why i was thinking about asking jelkner17:13
aelknerth1a, so i need to come down saturday morning, right?17:14
th1aLet me call the hotel and see if I can add a night.  I was just confused because when I called them back previously they us down for one of the rooms on Friday, which I didn't remember asking for, but probably I should have...17:14
th1aaelkner:  Yes, you can just come Friday.17:15
th1aI mean.17:15
* th1a isn't too sharp today.17:15
aelknerright, so you don't need a room for me friday17:15
th1aI'm getting there Saturday at noon.17:15
aelknerdo you need to be picked up from the airport?17:15
th1aI'm going to National so it is probably not worth the bother.17:15
aelknerok, so we'll meet at the hotel sat noon17:16
th1aProbably 1:00 officially.17:16
aelknerok, 1:00 ish17:16
th1aI'll double check the times -- I'll send an email today.17:16
th1aaelkner:  Can you send me jelkner's cell phone #?17:17
aelknerjelkner doesn't answer a cell17:17
aelknerso i don't have a number for that17:17
aelknerhe calls out using skype i think from his touch pad17:17
aelkneri'll send his classroom number17:18
yvlcan I be a bit late on Sat?17:18
* yvl is checking out early Sat, so was thinking about getting to some Smithsonian museum17:19
yvlthose are awesome :)17:19
th1aWell, I'm planning on taking some time off on some other mornings if we can.17:20
aelknerth1a, i included jeff's home and roxanna's cell, so feel free to try those as well17:20
th1aLet me double check the times, but I'd like to be rolling 1:30 or 2:00 at the latest.17:21
th1aI'll think about it.17:21
* th1a has a very strange way of planning travel which involves holding no information in his head.17:21
th1aI am arriving 11:55.17:22
th1aSo let's say 1:30 start.17:23
yvlso... meeting @ 1:00 at hotel, checking in, and 1:30 start17:24
th1aOK, replaceafill, so I have two other things I'd like to try to squeeze in that I'm afraid you haven't worked on before, but I'll throw this out for comment.17:25
th1aa) student photos;17:25
th1ab) school level attributes (e.g., address, phone of school).17:25
yvla-1) blob storage17:25
yvlfile storage, I mean :)17:26
replaceafillisnt the blob directory/handling automatically from configuration?17:26
yvlwell, it needs to be enabled17:26
yvlthat falls under menesis jurisdiction I suppose17:27
replaceafillbut the zodb "decides" when to use them or do we need zope.file or some external package?17:27
* replaceafill remembers zope.file or something like that enabling blobs in the old days17:28
* yvl can't recall the details17:28
th1aAll I know is that we seem to have made it a much bigger problem than it ought to be.17:28
yvlbut yes, something like that17:28
menesisblob storage needs to be enabled in configuration17:28
menesisand then it is used17:28
replaceafillmenesis, automatically, right?17:29
menesiszope.file makes use of it17:29
yvlthanks menesis17:29
* replaceafill used blobs in his grok days17:30
th1aSo maybe replaceafill can take a crack at this.17:30
replaceafillth1a, school level attributes are like demo fields for the app17:30
yvlth1a - packaging?17:30
th1aWell, they don't even really need to be customizable.17:30
th1aWhy don't you do the photos.17:31
yvlth1a, the thing with photos is not adding them17:31
yvlbut enabling decent storage17:31
yvlthat does not blow up database out of proportion17:32
th1aWell, yes.17:32
yvlenabling is done in configuration17:32
yvlthat's a packaging task as far as I understand17:32
th1aYes, I'm not worried about the task of turning on blob support.17:32
th1aThe use case is printed ID's and identifying kids on on-screen displays.17:33
th1aSo we can constrain the images pretty heavily.17:33
th1aAnd even doing so in a fairly brute force way would be much better than nothing.17:34
yvlreplaceafill - wanna do it then? :)17:34
th1aThis is a task for someone who is not going to overthink it.  ;-)17:35
yvlsounds like replaceafill :D17:35
yvlthat's a compliment, replaceafill  :)17:35
replaceafilli can start enabling blob support by hand in my schooltool.conf, right?17:36
replaceafillcan we use an external package? i remember there are some packages for handling file uploads17:37
th1aDo we still have the PIL dependency hanging around?17:37
replaceafillfor example, when you submit a form with a file, but you have a validation error17:37
replaceafillin other field17:37
replaceafillso you dont have to upload twice17:37
th1aZope packages?17:38
replaceafillagain, i'm just remembering stuff i've used17:39
replaceafillbut i know new dependencies are not welcome17:39
replaceafill(or very welcome)17:39
replaceafillso maybe all we need is an <input type="file" ...> and let the user deal with it17:39
replaceafillor something, just throwing random thoughts17:39
* replaceafill shuts up :)17:39
th1aThe bottom line is that right now users would rather have any pictures than the perfect implementation.17:40
replaceafillth1a, got it17:40
th1aBasically, you should probably use passport photos as a reference point.17:40
th1aThat's pretty much the size we're going for.17:40
replaceafillare we going to force some image ratio?17:41
th1aYou'll need to constrain overall file size and scale down the images as necessary.17:41
replaceafillth1a, right17:41
th1aI don't think we should enforce the ratio necessarily.17:41
th1aJust have a max height and width and force the image into that constraint.17:41
th1aBut I don't want to stretch the image, and I don't particularly want to enforce an exact ratio for uploads.17:42
replaceafillgot it17:42
th1aI don't see any reason to be that finicky when PIL will rescale easily enough.17:42
replaceafilli was thinking more about the printed version of the image17:42
replaceafillif you have a ratio constraint, then you know it will fit17:43
replaceafillbut i'll start simple17:43
th1aMaybe there is some easy way in PIL to add blank space in the margins to make the image a certain size.17:44
th1aAnyhow, yes, start simple.17:44
replaceafillcool, i'll move to that then17:44
th1aRequiring the image to be an exact px size would still be better than nothing.17:45
th1aOK.  aelkner, how are the transcripts coming?17:47
aelknerin adding the transcript layout to the data model, a question came up17:48
aelknerstarting from what we have for report cards:17:48
aelknerfor each year, a list of (source, heading) pairs for the report card grid columns17:49
aelkneras well as a the same list of the same pairs for the outline activities17:49
aelknerand the collection of these columns and outline activities can vary to any degree from year to year17:50
aelknerin the case of the transcript, the same cannot be said17:50
th1aWell, there are no outline activities in the transcript.17:50
th1aFor now at least.17:50
th1aAnd yes, you're right that the activities probably have to be defined by year.17:51
aelknerbut can they is the question17:51
th1aWhat do you think aelkner?17:51
aelknersince the report is a multi-year report, it couldn't make sense for one year to have a different activities than another17:52
aelknerthe only thing that could change form year to year is the report activity source of the section grade17:52
th1aThe school might completely change their grading system from one year to the next.17:53
th1aThere is no assumption of consistency.17:53
th1aJust have them define it per year.17:53
aelknerso, the transcript could have one set of grid columns for one year and another set for the next year?17:53
th1aThere is a column for the score, and different things might go in it.17:54
th1aLook at an example.17:54
aelknerthe examples all assume consistency from year to year17:54
aelknerwhich makes sense17:55
th1aYou're going to have a column which probably says "GRADE"17:55
aelknerotherwise the transcript has apples and oranges17:55
th1aThat is not our problem.17:55
th1aBasically, we can establish a bunch of rules for this and try to figure out ways to enforce them.17:55
th1aOr we can just let people select what goes under GRADE for each year.17:56
aelkneri was thinking that the only thing that needs to be chosen each year is the deployed report activity17:56
aelknerthat the report itself assumes that every year equally has just one score, i.e., one column17:57
aelknerand that it's heading is not a year over year choice17:57
th1aThere is one column for scores in the transcript, even if in different years it is different activities.17:57
th1aI believe we are agreeing at this point.17:58
aelkneri think so, so i just wanted to double-check the UI17:58
aelkneryou see, under customize in the School tab (a year-level thing)17:59
aelknerwe have Report Card Layout17:59
aelknerbut i think Transcript Layout is not the right name for the button17:59
aelknerbut rather, Transcript Data Source18:00
aelknerand the view for that would be merely a drop-down to select the source18:00
aelknerno heading, not table of columns18:00
th1aHow about Customize: Transcript18:00
aelknerso you agree that customizing the heading is not to be done at the ear level18:01
th1aCan you just make it one form that has a menu for each year.18:01
aelknerjust like the report card layout, it will be a year tertiary nav view18:02
aelknerdoes that sound right?18:02
th1aJust make it one form.18:03
th1aIt is just one line per year.18:03
th1aOne form with five lines is much better than five forms with one line.18:03
aelknerso, even though the form can be called up from the School tab for any given year18:04
aelknerit will contain a form for all years18:04
aelknerwe already have Customize Templates which is year independent18:05
aelkneri just want to make sure this is also ok for the transcript18:05
th1aThe customize things in the sidebar aren't year dependent.18:05
aelknerwell, Report Card Layout is18:06
th1aAh, is that the one we moved recently?18:06
aelknerbut i guess the rest are not18:06
th1aProbably we shouldn't have done that.18:06
aelknerno, we didn't move that one, but we could18:06
aelknerwe moved the Report Sheet Tempaltes18:07
th1aDon't do it right now.18:07
aelknerdon't do what?18:07
th1aMove those.18:07
th1aJust do the transcript.18:08
aelknerok, and it's Customize -> Transcript with a form with one drop-down per year18:08
aelknerand if they fail to pick a report activity source for a given year18:08
aelknerthen the year won't appear in the transcript18:08
aelknerSubmit and Cancel which both take the user back to the School tab18:09
th1aNo, the year and sections should appear.18:09
th1aJust no score.18:09
aelkneroh, ok18:10
aelknerok, so i think i got it now18:10
aelknerthe data model i had in mind seems to still be correct18:10
aelknerjust one source per year, no heading18:11
aelknermaybe we could add a heading override choice to the form later18:11
aelknerbut the choice they would make would go in a different (not year related) layout object18:11
aelknerbut that's only if we decide to add that later18:12
aelknerbtw, i have a way of adding attributes to the gradebook root that doesn't require evolution18:12
aelknerthe AppInit and AppStartup events will check to see if the attribute needs to be added18:13
aelkneryvl, it's like those new indeces you created that self-evolve18:13
aelknerthe setupGradebookRoot method (called from AppInit and AppStartup) will add the new root attrbute18:14
yvlit depends on what attribute you have in mind18:14
aelknerrememebr how you created index objects that reindex automatically, no need for evolve?18:14
aelknerin my case, i have a GradebookRoot object that has various attributes18:15
yvlwhich one do you have in mind now?18:15
aelknera new one, transcript_sources, will be added18:15
aelknerand i won't need to write an evolve script to add it, just do so in AppInit or AppStartup18:16
aelknerlater, i may need to add a TranscriptLayout object to root18:16
aelknerthat object would not be by year18:17
yvlwell, ok18:17
yvlas long as you don't configure them18:17
aelknerit could have various fields for laying out the transcript18:17
aelknerlike the heading for Grades18:17
aelknerperhaps a transcript type18:17
aelknerbut since we don't have that need yet, i'm not going to add that attribute18:17
yvlwell, go ahead18:18
yvlin any case - we can move that to evolution later18:18
yvland quite easily18:18
aelknersure, if we need to18:18
aelkneranyway, that's what i'll do18:18
aelknerth1a, that's it for me18:19
th1aOK, so everyone is busy until Saturday?18:19
th1aOK.  See you then.18:20
th1aTravel safe!18:20
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:20
yvllooking forward to it!18:20
aelkneryes, should be a good week18:20
yvl+1 ;)18:20
replaceafillthanks everybody18:20
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aelknerth1a, ayt?18:42
aelkneri forgot to mention, bjork was on Colbert last night18:42
aelkneryou could catch the rerun at 6:30 tonight18:43
aelknershe did an interview and a song, very nice18:43
th1aAh.  Thanks.18:43
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th1ayvl: ayt?19:47
th1areplaceafill:  We have both rooms from friday, actually.19:47
th1ayvl confused me.19:47
replaceafillso, i just need to get to the hotel then19:48
* replaceafill is looking for url of the hotel19:54
replaceafillgot it
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TheProfGood day.  I hope everyone is doing well.  I need some help please with student demographics in SchoolTool version 2.020:37
TheProfI was able to successfully create a series of additional demographic points (grade, lunch program yes/no, etc.) but I can't seem to edit these values once I have created the student.20:38
TheProfHow do I edit the custom demographics?20:38
replaceafillTheProf, that bug was recently fixed in the development branch, iirc20:38
replaceafillare your fields limited?20:39
replaceafillmeaning they're just for students or teachers20:39
TheProfreplaceafill, I'm not too sure what you mean by limited.20:39
TheProfAh  - they are just for students20:39
replaceafillthat's the bug20:39
replaceafilli think it hasn't landed in the repositories yet thought20:39
TheProfInteresting.  I've installed on Ubuntu using the PPA - do you recommend I just make the fields unlimited - would that solve it?20:40
replaceafillit should20:40
replaceafilli remember the bug just hid the limited fields20:40
TheProfOK I will try that now thank you.20:41
TheProfYou are correct - removing the checks from the limiting area resolves the issue.20:42
TheProfreplaceafill, thank you very much!20:42
replaceafillTheProf, np20:42
replaceafillyou should subscribe to the bug if you can20:42
replaceafillto see when it's released :)20:43
TheProfA good idea.20:43
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dogiping replaceafill23:37
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