IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2011-11-28

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dstanfieldHello, my name is David Stanfield, I'm a friend of mattva0103:45
dstanfieldIs anybody active in this channel?03:46
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aelknerhey yvl10:24
yvlhi aelkner10:24
aelkneri wanted to show you something for the upcoming meeting10:25
aelkneryou helped me get the one search to not break the second batch10:26
yvlah, yes10:26
aelkneryeah, that was a good fix10:26
aelkneranyway, i added a fix as well to have the search widget come out better10:27
aelknernotice how there is no group drop-down10:27
yvlthat makes a bit less sense in some groups :)10:28
yvlthen again it makes sense in groups like "Basketball"10:28
aelknerin this case we are only showing items that are by definition in some group10:29
aelknerso filtering them with an outside group filter only yields nothing, right?10:29
aelknerah, waity10:30
yvlpeople can belong to multiple groups10:30
yvlbut the case seems a bit esoteric to me10:30
yvllet's see what Tom has to say about this10:30
aelknerwell, that's why i wanted to discuss before merging10:30
aelknerwe should get tom's input at the meeting10:30
yvlpersonally, I like this change; +0.5 ;)10:31
aelknerbut i wanted your's first10:31
aelkneralso, i wanted you to look at the diif, but launchpad is slow to update the branch10:31
aelkneralthough you could pull it10:31
aelknerit's revision 323810:31
aelkneri create a new interface so that i can register the formatter that essentially doesn't do anything different than the person container one10:32
aelknerexcept that it doesn't have the group filter10:33
aelknerif we decide that the feature is not needed, i can drop the revision10:33
aelkneri tried putting the interface in schooltool/group/, but that lead to an import error10:34
aelkneri'm guessing it's a circular import10:34
aelkneranyway, we can pick this up at the meeting10:36
aelknerjust thought i'd give you a head start10:36
yvlI really appreciate this10:36
aelknercya there10:36
yvlgood night, aelkner :)10:37
aelknerzzzzzz :)10:37
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th1ahi replaceafill, menesis, aelkner, yvl.16:30
yvlgood morning16:30
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:30
th1aOK... any *pressing* issues regarding the release/new site?16:30
th1ayvl wants to talk about the NEXT release.16:30
menesisno issues16:32
yvlyay \o/16:32
replaceafilli just have a question16:32
replaceafillcould we keep the homepage/book branches not under +junk?16:32
replaceafillis there any reason to do that?16:32
th1aYes, I don't know why that happens in the first place.  It is not a conscious decision.16:33
th1aYou can move them.16:33
replaceafillah ok, thanks16:33
th1aOK, aelkner, now is the time you can do some CanDo stuff.16:33
th1aIf you recall dwelsh's concerns.16:34
aelknerright, i can get back to that16:34
th1aDoes that stuff still need to be done?16:34
aelkneryes, but first i want to close out the bug i have in progress16:34
aelkneri need to discuss that16:34
th1aLet's do that after.16:34
th1aWe're going to blitz through a list of end of 2012 MUSTS.16:35
th1aThese are NOT in order.16:35
th1aAnd I may be missing a couple.16:35
th1aHere goes:16:35
th1a* a package that gets SchoolTool running on port 80.16:36
th1a(through apache or whatever016:36
th1a* clear story for HTTPS.16:36
th1a* Critical links will start integrating ST 2.0 after Feb -- supporting that.16:37
th1a* COOKIES (soon) also, using cookies to improve usability.16:37
th1a* student photos, also file storage.16:37
th1a* integrated backup/recovery to Ubuntu One.16:37
th1a* school logo/letterhead16:38
th1a* better integration of everything with calendar (e.g., activity due dates in calendars)16:38
th1a* sets of activities for sharing between sections and users16:38
th1a* score systems in journal16:38
th1a* student enrollment statuses for school and sections16:39
th1aexcusing absences16:39
th1a* transcripts16:39
th1a* CanDo merge/refactor16:39
th1a* some parent access16:39
th1a* temporary teacher access for subs16:40
th1aThat's it.16:40
th1aOne question -- who worked on student statuses already and where is that?16:40
th1aenrollment status.16:40
replaceafilli did16:40
* replaceafill goes look that branch16:41
th1aWhy is that not in trunk?16:41
replaceafillit never got to a point of being usable16:41
th1aOK, well, maybe we should try to finish it before the end of the year then.16:41
th1aSo as you can see there's essentially one big thing -- CanDo refactor and integration into SchoolTool core.16:42
th1aThat is, integration into the standard distribution of SchoolTool.16:42
th1aThat is, "apt-get install schooltool" installs CanDo too.16:43
th1aAnd a lot of medium sized things.16:43
yvlCanDo has a lot of baggage, I think we're going to end up with a "rewrite"16:43
th1aI think we'll mostly re-write it.16:43
yvl(but we'll have an implementation to look at)16:43
th1aMore importantly we'll have a lot of experience with the problem and a standard UI to work from.16:44
yvldon't know anything about branding, but we could make schooltool.competency package16:44
yvljust my two cents16:44
th1aWe'll cross that bridge when we get there yvl.16:44
th1aOK, I was expecting to be interrupted there so it went pretty quick.16:45
jelkner+1 on yvl's opinion (just my 2cent ;-)16:45
yvllooks like good goals to me16:45
yvlI would add explicitly: some UI polish in usability sense16:46
yvlfor example...16:46
yvladding a calendar event in a jQuery "pop-up"16:47
yvlor editing16:47
yvlmaybe do something with relationship views16:47
th1aOh, well, one thing I forgot: general calendar love.16:47
th1aAlthough that is in a sense inessential.16:47
th1aI guess I should step back and give a little more context here.16:48
* yvl agrees16:48
th1aThe overarching goal is to get rid of things that MUST be done before we can undertake a big architectural phase (e.g., moving to Pyramid).16:48
th1aAnd, in particular, getting in the final key features of an SIS.16:49
th1aSo basically most of these are potential blockers for someone adopting SchoolTool.16:50
th1aWhereas, say, making the calendar better is nice but not a blocker.16:50
th1aOK, other questions?16:52
yvllooking at the list, there are two items somewhat fuzzy for me16:52
yvland enrollment statuses16:52
yvland maybe even letterhead16:52
yvlby fuzzy I mean - I can imagine what/how needs to be done on other items16:53
th1aCookies -- I don't see why we shouldn't be using cookies to manage, say, more intelligent Done buttons.16:53
th1aBut somehow we don't have a "right way" to use cookies in SchoolTool.16:53
yvlI've spent some time on this, so we can chat about it later16:54
yvlas for enrollment, I just don't have a clear picture of how they should work16:54
th1aAs far as I can tell, we've just vastly over-thought cookies.16:54
yvlthen again, I'm pretty confident you can work this out :)16:54
th1aOK enrollment statuses.16:54
th1aVery simple really.16:54
th1aYou're added to the system but not yet an active student (step 1)16:55
th1aYou're an active student (step 2)16:55
th1aYou're no longer a student (step 3)16:55
yvlnow I get it :)16:55
th1aPretty much the same for sections.16:55
th1aExcept maybe step 1 is added to a section whose term has not yet started.16:55
th1aLetterhead is basically so the report card can print an image at top.16:56
yvland maybe something fancier if time permits16:57
th1aYes, they could also just literally print on their letterhead, but that's not I'm referring to.16:57
th1ayvl: Don't overthink this one either.16:57
yvlwould you expect section enrollment to have dates16:57
yvlseciton enrollment statuses to have dates, as in:16:58
yvlenrolled from Aug to Nov16:58
yvlor, instructs this section from Aug to Nov16:58
yvlor, instructs on Aug 15th (a substitute essentially)16:58
yvl(as dates bring in in-and-out-and-in-again thing)16:59
yvlwithout the dates it's: today is [inactive, active, not active anymore]16:59
yvljust checking16:59
th1aDates are certainly preferable.16:59
th1aWIthout dates is still a considerable improvement.17:00
yvlit's just better to opt for one or another instead of implementing both eventually :)17:00
th1aI think I tried to leave out further implementation of levels, but that's really got to be on the list too.17:01
yvloh, right!17:01
yvlok, /me is happy with the plan :)17:02
aelkneryvl, who is this /me guy?17:03
th1aOK then.17:03
th1aaelkner:  You have the floor.17:04
* yvl is /me17:04
aelknerok, i had a notion about the search of group members17:04
aelkneri discussed with yvl last night, but i want to get everyone's input17:05
aelknernote that i got rid of the group drop-down17:05
aelknerthat is because it doesn't make sense to me to search within a group for students outside the given group17:06
aelknerthat group drop-down was useful for People searches17:06
th1aWell... if we didn't already have it I probably wouldn't be telling you to add it.17:07
aelknerbut the case of group members is a list that is by definition limited to a group17:07
th1aBut I don't think it has no potential use.17:07
th1aIf you wanted to find the intersection of two big groups, for example.17:07
th1aIf we already get that "for free" there is no reason to throw it away.17:08
aelknerso what are we saying here?17:10
aelknerput it back?17:10
th1aIf it doesn't make the rest of the job more complicated for you, leave it in.17:10
aelknerleave the group drop-down in or leave the removal of it in?17:11
menesisdoes the group filter work?17:11
th1aIf what you're not telling me is that putting it back in will cost six hours, then maybe keep it out.17:11
menesisi.e. look at Students and select Basketball17:11
aelknerputting it back won't cost much, so should i put it back?17:11
th1aBut yes, it needs to actually work.17:12
th1aIf you're putting it in.17:12
menesisI don't think searching for group within group is very useful17:12
menesisbut if it works then ok17:12
th1aYes... does it work?17:12
aelknersure it works, wy wouldn't it?17:13
aelknerit is the existing person search/filter widget17:13
th1aAs long as it gives the intersection of the two groups I'm fine.17:13
aelknerthe only change i made to get rid of the group drop-down was to create a new search/filter widget17:13
aelknerok, i'll double-check that before closing the bug17:13
aelknerone more thing17:13
menesismakes the group page similar to People page17:14
aelknerok, so before moving on the other thing, we are all in agreement, put the drop-down back?17:14
th1aCan we add search/filter to the delete page?17:15
th1aBut not batching.17:15
aelknerdelete page?17:15
th1aPut the drop down back as long as it gives you the intersection of the two groups.17:15
th1aGroup delete.17:15
th1aDelete members.17:15
th1aThe one that lets you delete.17:15
th1aAlso, add ID to that table.17:16
th1aOn members_persons17:16
replaceafillwe're adding the batch to the section index view, right?17:17
aelknerreplaceafill, wait a sec17:17
aelknerth1a, what do you want changed on the link i just posted?17:17
th1aActually that should batch.17:17
aelknerit currently does batch17:18
th1aI'm talking about this one
aelknerat least in the Add Members part17:18
aelkneryvl, this is the whole 'multiple search/batch on single view issue'17:19
th1aActually, both of those views should have the id in the table.17:19
aelkneri thought we decided not to do that17:19
th1aWell, we clearly need to batch members in
th1aSo we need to batch both members and non-members.17:21
th1aWe pretty much have to make that possible.17:21
th1aUnlike, say, Instructors, which should always be a relatively sane number.17:22
aelknerok, well until now i have been working on the group index.html view, a singular situation17:22
aelknerwhat you are talking about is the realtionship view17:22
aelknerthat applies to all relationship views we have17:22
aelknerso changing that changes the way the app works in many places17:23
aelkneradding the id column, etc.17:23
th1aOK, well, looking at this view it is obviously necessary.17:23
aelkneryvl, do you agree that we should change the relationships view in this fashion?17:24
* yvl was away for few minutes17:25
yvlcatching up...17:25
aelkneri haven't tried to get multiple search/batch working on any views17:25
aelknerlast week, you helped me make ne search not effect another batch,17:25
aelknerbut what about having multiple search/batch on one view?17:25
th1aShould I just give this to yvl or replaceafill so aelkner doesn't lose his mind?17:26
yvlpersonally, I would like to rework relationship views a little bit17:26
aelknerthat's fine with me17:26
yvlso that searching only reloads the list17:26
th1aaelkner: Just add the id's to the tables please.17:26
yvland not the entire page17:26
replaceafillyvl, +117:26
menesiswhile we look at membership views: I hate the new +/- columns. checkboxes + button + invert selection button was better17:26
th1aThe buttons need to be ajaxified.17:26
yvlanother usability candy that would make me very very very very happy17:26
yvlwould be17:26
menesisunless clicking the +/-  does not reload/scroll the page17:27
th1aTeachers don't understand invert selection, especially with batching.17:27
yvlsomething like a button "Add members" or such17:27
th1aI don't understand invert selection with batching.17:27
yvland then a jquery popup with searchable member list17:27
yvlwhere you can click (+)17:27
yvland it just collects to a list, in the same dialog17:27
yvland then you click confirm or add or whatever17:27
replaceafilllike launchpad17:27
yvlto add them all17:27
yvlor just close the window if you change your mind17:28
yvlbut I just wanted to put this for consideration17:28
yvlin any case... table formatters are a bit ugly17:28
* yvl would be happy to take that from aelkner's mind17:29
* aelkner would be even happier :)17:29
replaceafillwe need a batch here:
th1aI don't know.17:31
aelkneryeah, do we need to batch the students that are in a section?17:32
th1aWe need ID's in all these relationship tables though.17:32
menesisdo you expect a class have more than 50 members?17:32
replaceafillth1a, there are 42 students enrolled in that section, we only see 2517:32
th1aWell, that's different.17:32
th1aWe don't need a batch.17:32
th1aWe need to see all the members!17:32
replaceafillah! ok17:32
th1aIs that a separate bug?17:32
th1aCan we change all these relationship tables in one place?17:33
th1aIt just needs to be fixed.17:33
yvlI can look at that17:33
th1aDoes it need to have a bug filed?17:33
yvland try not to miss anything17:33
yvlcould I also work on reloading only the list when user hits search?17:33
th1aThat is, can we add ID's to all of them in one place?17:33
* yvl is not sure, th1a 17:34
th1ayvl:  I don't think that's an important problem compared to not reloading when you add/remove a person.17:34
aelknerthe id column would be added to the table formatter in one place, show up in all views, right?17:34
yvlof course, th1a17:34
th1aOK, yes, we need that, I filed a bug for aelkner.17:34
aelknerth1a, what bug?17:35
th1aThe id in these tables.17:35
aelknerwhat bug?17:36
aelknercould you post a link?17:36
aelknerok, can we assign this to yvl and reassign the other to him as well?17:37
th1areassigned for the sake of everyone's sanity.17:38
th1areplaceafill: Do you have things to do?17:38
replaceafillth1a, yes17:38
replaceafillbugs assigned for 2.0.117:39
th1aGreat.  I'm going to be writing our report/proposal and sending it Wednesday.17:39
aelkneryvl, can we talk about these bugs after the meeting?17:39
th1aThanks gentlemen.17:39
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:39
aelkneri guess 'after the meeting' starts now :)17:39
aelkneryvl, brb17:40
replaceafillyvl, did you see this:
menesisI saw17:42
menesisis ok17:42
replaceafilli was just wondering if there was a better way to do it17:42
menesismaybe that can be done in ViewletManager.render17:47
menesisotherwise, does what you wanted17:47
replaceafillmenesis, right17:48
* yvl is ok with that change, replaceafill 17:48
yvlit would be better if the manager *knew* that it will render nothing17:48
yvl(like self.viewlets would be empty)17:49
replaceafillyvl, self.viewlets can have items on it, that are not renderable17:49
replaceafillto me that's not a good condition17:49
yvlI understand17:49
yvljust saying it would be best if the manager could filter the items that are not renderable17:50
yvllike... they (viewlets) could have enabled = False17:50
yvlit's a bit weird to me when viewlet is not renderable but it tries to render something17:52
replaceafillshould i merge this? or would you like to take a look later for a better solution?17:53
yvlfeel free to merge17:54
replaceafillmaybe your solution will make renderable_items hacks unnecessary17:54
replaceafillah, ok17:54
menesisreplaceafill: you asked about junk branches17:59
menesisreplaceafill: +junk is for branches that have no project on launchpad. book and homepage are not branches of schooltool. I may create and schooltool-book projects...17:59
menesisalso schooltool.ldap. then niepa, cambodia, zambia also are separate projects...18:00
menesisthe inconvenience is that +junk branches do not show up in
replaceafillmenesis, correct18:01
replaceafilli haven't found how to track them as a set18:02
menesisso. maybe it is not correct, but we keep many other branches in /schooltool, can push to ~schooltool-owners/schooltool/book18:09
menesisst-book is the old book18:09
replaceafillflourish-book for the new one?18:09
yvlwell, see you guys! :)18:12
menesisI would like to avoid the word "flourish" now18:16
replaceafillmenesis, ah, sure18:17
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