IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2011-09-12

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th1ahi yvl, menesis, aelkner.16:31
* th1a is a little flustered this morning.16:31
yvlgood morning16:31
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th1aI knocked a big bottle of mouthwash and a full bottle of fabric softener off a high shelf in the bathroom, spilling both.16:31
th1aSo I just cleaned that up...16:32
aelknerso you smell minty, bouncy fresh now?16:32
th1aPretty much.16:33
th1aSo... what did you guys think of Vinny's wireframe?16:34
yvlwell, a good point about scrollbar not useful at the bottom16:35
yvland that dates make sence there16:35
yvlbtw, I took a shot at making ST blue and restyling a-la-Schwa16:36
aelkneri'm not sure aout the subnav going on the same line as the breadcrumbs16:36
yvlaelkner, if you could run that somewhere, it would be great ;)16:36
th1aWe may have to wait for replaceafill...16:37
aelknerwhere is he today?16:37
th1aI'm sure he's just running late or he would have sent an email.16:37
th1aWell, either that or something's REALLY wrong.16:38
yvl(oh, and a good point about showing type of activity in gradebook)16:38
aelkneroverslept perhaps?16:38
yvl(as in - Rocketry/Lab, Rocketry/Exam)16:38
th1aHung over?16:38
aelknerdid he have some virtual beer with you last night like at a sprint?16:38
th1aWhat do you think of the color?16:39
yvlit lacks contrast for me16:40
aelknerwell, blue is my favorite color, so i can't object16:40
th1aI don't think it is dark enough for the link color.16:40
yvlI do like blue, but... it is somewhat of a dreamy colour16:40
aelknerbut i get used to colors pretty quickly, so i was already used to how flourish looks16:40
yvlnot sure if firendly/dreamy thing is... best here.16:41
aelknerit's an interesting question, looking professional vrs what the Critical people said16:41
aelknerthey thought the old skin was too professional looking!16:41
th1aI've always liked the red, but it has some practical and symbolic problems.16:41
aelkneryes, the Critial folks said red was alarming to the user16:42
aelknerand for some reason they preferred green, yuck!16:43
* yvl also likes the red16:43
th1aIn terms of getting rid of the red, it is one of the main functions of a paid consultant -- you need to pay someone to tell you what you already know.16:43
yvljust not this disaster16:43
th1aThis teal disaster?16:44
yvlbut I'm no expert, so probably just can't see something obvious16:44
yvlI also somewhat doubt the point of putting login at the top16:45
th1aYeah, we don't have to go along with that stuff.16:45
yvloh, one more thing16:45
yvlonce Douglas puts my branch up16:46
yvlyou can click on schooltool logo to change style of the "header" bar16:46
th1aI mean, I only asked for colors and a gradebook grid, so it is no big deal to disregard as much of this as we want.16:46
yvlit's a hack, so has glitches16:46
th1ayvl:  That's all I'd want.16:46
yvlnot that good16:47
yvljust changes logo/brand at the left, logo/brand at the right16:47
aelkneryvl, i don't understand, how come you can't set up a branch yourself?16:48
aelknerdon't you have an account on the demo server?16:48
yvlnever had one16:48
yvlI've no idea what's there16:48
aelknerwhat would you want your user id to be?16:49
aelknerlet me try to adduser for you16:49
th1aI think I prefer the tabs at the left because they really should be more prominent than the name.16:50
* yvl too, th1a 16:50
th1aI do think we have a bit of an issue with the current tertiary navigation in reference to the gradebook grid.  They just need a little more separation somehow, although not necessarily actual white space.16:51
aelkneri just create an account for yvl and private chatted him the details16:52
yvlit will take some time to take a look around what's there16:53
yvltrue, th1a16:54
aelkneryou should look at my account and make sure to use a different port number, just 10 off from mine would be fine16:55
th1aHere's the problem:16:55
th1aGreen=Critical Links16:55
th1aI guess I've never given much thought to Red=Red Hat, but that too.16:56
aelknerSuSE, what's that?16:57
th1aA Linux distro.16:57
aelknerwell, it's not like colors are OWNED by those things16:58
aelknerwe should choose whatever looks best16:58
yvlDark Yellow + Khaki? :)16:58
th1aOf course, but they're all kind of related.16:58
th1aIt is like choosing a uniform that is different than the rest in your division.16:58
th1aIn that respect, I don't think teal is so bad.16:59
yvl(btw, what about Ruby Red?)17:00
th1aPurplish red?17:01
yvlbut that's just a random suggestion17:02
yvlvery random17:02
th1aWell, it one of the two things you get when you try to move away from red, so it isn't that random.  ;-)17:02
th1aI think it would have a lot of the same problems as teal, but look stranger.17:02
yvlhmm.  true.17:04
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* th1a is mulling.17:06
th1amenesis:  How is packaging coming?17:06
menesisth1a: I have finished with translations on Friday17:06
menesisnow have to make a release from flourish branches17:07
menesisbut I feel sick today, just slept for an hour in the office :/17:07
* aelkner is back17:07
menesisso not done17:07
menesismy plan is,17:08
menesismerge trunk to flourish17:08
menesisupdate version to 1.917:08
menesisand make release17:08
menesisoh and update translation template with new strings17:08
menesisthen making a deb is easy17:09
th1aOK, let's get that done ASAP.  If yvl can help speed up the process, he should.17:09
yvlyou know where to find me, menesis ;)17:09
menesisso not much work, but not sure how much I am able to do today17:09
* th1a googles El Salvador Holidays...17:10
th1aSept. 15 = Independence Day.17:11
aelkneryeah, but strange that he didn't mention it to you on Friday17:11
th1aAlso, it is the 12th.17:11
yvltoday is Sep 1217:11
th1aOK aelkner, what's your status?17:12
aelknerwell, i need stuff to do, but let me list what i've done lately17:12
aelkner1) /terms should have tertiary year tabs17:13
aelkner2) added year navigation to mygrades view17:13
aelkner3) removed readonly activities from GradeStudent view17:13
aelkner4) added Update grades column menu item for linked activities17:13
aelknerand finally,17:13
aelkner5) fixed Intervention tab to redirect to login on auth timeout17:14
th1aCan I see those?17:14
aelknerno :)17:14
aelknerseriously though, i need a couple minutes to update my instance17:14
aelknerforgot to do that last might17:14
th1aOK.  back to aelkner then.17:14
yvlnot much17:15
yvlskinned experimental ST flourish teal, changed some things17:15
yvlwill show you once the instance is built17:15
yvlthat's that for today17:16
yvlas for TODOs... what should I do next?17:16
yvlthere's a bunch of small issues that I emailed last week, so I can work on those until something more urgent comes up17:17
th1aI don't think there is anything urgent.17:17
th1aWell, not urgent enough to remember offhand.17:17
yvlfor example, I can work on view person permissions...17:17
aelkneris now an ok time to talk about testing?17:20
th1aWell, if we're running out of urgent issues...17:21
aelknerok, for starters, yvl, can we break this up into two areas, old skin and new skin17:21
th1aaelkner, Terms needs a Done.17:22
aelknerfirst, if one simply says bin/test, is that old skin17:22
aelknerth1a, /terms doesn't have Done because /courses doesn't17:22
yvlteal version17:22
aelknerin fact all of the views reached from the School tab don't have Done17:22
aelkneri guess you figured they can just hit School17:23
yvl(hmm, let me steal some Data.fs and re-start the server)17:23
aelkneri won't arrest you if you steal mine17:23
aelknermake sure you have journal, intervention and gradebook plugins though17:24
th1aaelkner:  OK, one thing you can do is add Done to all of them.17:24
aelknerok, will do17:24
th1aBelow the Search button.17:25
aelknerwhen there is one17:25
aelknercould you make some breadcrumb suggestions17:26
aelkneri know that they are missing from the intervention views17:26
aelknerwhat would they look like in your opinion?17:27
aelknerthe intervention tab doesn't need anything17:27
aelknerbut what about the student search17:27
aelknerand then when a student view is reached17:28
aelkneri'm guessing whatever a student view has for breadcrumbs would provide a base17:28
aelknerfor goals, a goal, adding or editing a goal, messages, a message, and adding a message17:28
yvlhmm, I think I added breadcrumbs there17:29
yvlso please check17:29
aelknerthere is no breadcrumb for the student view, yvl17:30
aelknerwhat do you think?17:30
aelknerth1a, what about you, would a student breadcrumb be right there?17:31
th1aI guess the main point is that the way to do it that's consistent with the rest of the app is for person interventions to go through the person.17:31
th1apersons > persons > whatever17:32
yvloh, you should merge with trunk aelkner17:32
* th1a sighs.17:32
yvllog in as manager17:32
yvlmerge with intervention flourish branch that is17:33
aelknerth1a, why do you sigh17:33
aelknerdo you think i should merge with trunk or check that there is something new in trunk every five minutes?17:33
yvlapologies, I tend to forget what I did sometimes :)17:33
aelkneri'm not a machine17:33
aelknerif only we had an automated system like with a computer or something17:34
aelknerthat automatically informed people when changes were made to trunk17:34
yvlwith all due respect aelkner, I pushed that out more than a week ago17:34
aelkneri've merged since then, so...17:34
yvlwell, Douglas branch does have the breadcrumbs, so you can look there17:35
yvl(and check if they're reasonable17:36
th1aaelkner, do you want to talk about testing for a few minutes before we release the Lithuanians?17:36
aelknerth1a, yes, but one sec17:37
menesisaelkner: you can subscribe to all changes to a branch, in to the right "Subscribe yourself". but those emails may become too much17:37
aelknerlooks like i needed to merge after all for interventions, didn't realize it17:37
aelknerok, sorry for the confusion, breadcumbs look fine17:38
aelknermenesis, true, it could get spammy a bit17:40
aelknerth1a, anyway, i'd like to ask about test status17:40
aelknerfirst of all, running bin/test, what does that test, old skin only?17:40
aelkneralso, how soon can we get that to pass?17:41
aelknerthen, will we come up with a bin/test-flourish?17:41
aelkneryvl, menesis, thoughts?17:41
yvlbin/test runs existing tests, so yes, old skin only17:41
yvlfunctional tests are broken and need fixing17:42
menesisold tests, but they are broken17:42
yvlunit tests are probably not broken, or broken very little17:42
menesisI will fix a 'zc.datetimewidget' problem shortly17:42
yvlas for flourish functional tests...17:42
menesisbut then TimetableSchema breaks lots of tests17:42
yvlas for flourish functional tests, I want Selenium17:43
menesisand I don't know what changed there.17:43
yvland not RC17:43
yvla "proper" webdriver17:43
aelkneryvl, Selenium is useful for out the door integration testing, perhaps of packages17:43
aelknerbut i think we need to stick to zope Browser for developer tests17:43
aelknerSelenium is a click around a running instance tester, no?17:44
yvlwell, I'm not talking about old Selenium17:44
yvlthat was crap17:44
yvlwell, kind of, yes17:44
yvlbut that can be automated much more decently nowadays17:44
aelknerand supply things like manger.serve()17:45
yvlbasically, tests will run in-memory DB17:45
yvlopen Firefox and do stuff17:45
yvlwebdriver is nice, has drivers for Chromium too17:45
yvland IE, if you want that :)17:45
aelknerand zope.testbrowser, we don't like that anymore?17:46
yvlwell, first, we will need to write all tests from scratch anyway17:46
yvlbecause, you know, we have changed ALL UI17:46
aelknerall flourish tests, that is17:47
aelknerbut yes17:47
yvland I do want something similar to testbrowser17:47
yvland selenium python bindings are very very close to that17:47
yvlI think we'll wrap what we don't like with thin layer of helpers :)17:48
aelkneryvl, what about the fact that we have always been able to test just the package we work on17:48
aelknerbin/test -vs schooltool/course, for instance17:49
aelknerschooltool.course, i mean17:49
yvlsorry, I don't follow17:50
yvldo you mean - will we able to do that?17:50
yvlthen yes17:50
aelknerwill be able to..., when would that be?17:50
yvla very good question17:51
yvlneed some time to play with it to get an estimation17:51
aelknerwe already can use testbrowser17:51
aelknerso why are we abandoning something that we already have17:51
aelknerin favor of something that we don't know yet when we will have17:51
aelknerand i'm not even sure what the upgrade would be17:51
aelknerwhen we have this thing that we don't have17:52
yvlfor one, testing javascript17:52
th1a'nuff said.17:52
yvlanother - open browser when the test breaks pointing at the point where it broke17:52
yvlFFox has stuff like firebug17:53
yvlyou can play with xpath expressions there quickly and very very easily17:53
yvland then paste it where the test broke17:53
yvland so on17:53
aelknerwell, you convinced me17:53
th1aOK, so perhaps yvl should start working on that.17:54
aelknerok, well i suppose it s up to th1a what the priority of getting that all set up is17:54
aelknerdarn, you beat me to it17:54
th1aI don't know why aelkner's high school didn't require typing.17:54
yvlit will take few days, th1a17:54
aelknerbecause they hated their students?17:54
yvlif that is ok?17:54
th1aIt is a problem we have to solve yvl.17:55
yvlTrue.  Just a matter of when.17:55
th1aWell, it blocks everyone else writing tests, so probably sooner rather than later.17:55
th1aActually aelkner, you should go through your bugs and update the ones that have been fixed in flourish.17:58
th1aFix this one:
th1aSo does aelkner have unit test fixes to do, or have they already been done by replaceafill?17:59
aelkneri didn't know there were any unit tests to fix18:00
yvlth1a, I'm almost finished setting up the instance18:00
aelknerisn't it just the views that may have been broken n the old skin?18:00
yvlplease don't go away for few minutes18:00
th1aI won't.18:00
th1aWell, if you run the tests you'll see, presumably.18:00
aelkneri din't try doing bin/test -u on all the packages, so that's something i could do today18:01
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jelknerth1a, i just returned to my office to find a voice message from replaceafill18:02
aelknerjelkner, the suspense is killing us...18:03
jelknerhe wanted me to let you know that he is ok, he didn't over sleep, but that he has no electricity or Internet in his area18:03
th1aah ok18:03
* th1a was getting worried.18:03
aelknerdid they have a hurricane or something?18:03
jelkneri don't know18:04
jelknerin el salvador, electricity can go out for lots of reasons18:04
th1aI guess it is surprising that doesn't happen more often.18:04
yvlat least he's ok!18:05
jelknerhe's fine18:05
jelkneri didn't get to talk to him18:05
* yvl was getting worried he got sick..18:05
jelknerbut that's what he said in the message18:05
th1aWe up yvl?18:07
yvlstill downloading eggs18:07
* yvl set up a shared egg folder, forgot to copy eggs, now somewhere in the middle of downloading everything18:08
aelknerran bin/test -u on core, all tests pass18:09
aelknerdoing make on gradebook and intervention to run those unit tests18:09
yvl... and we're up18:12
yvlor for full user experience ;)18:12
aelknerme likey the blue, but that's just personal taste18:13
th1ait is too light for text18:13
th1ayvl:  Can you quickly move the name/log out back down?18:14
yvlI can try :)18:15
th1aI don't like white space floating at the top.18:22
th1aOK, I'll bounce that back at Vinny.18:23
th1aI think we need a third darker color.18:24
yvlyou can look at Home18:24
yvlthere is a ??% dim on teal in the accordeon18:24
th1aAh, I'll have him look at that, too.18:25
yvlalso - did you click on SchoolTool logo?18:25
yvlI think that's roughly the version they suggest18:25
th1aOh, cute!18:25
th1aI'm a little worried the hexagon doesn't register as a hexagon in smaller sizes.18:26
yvlthat may be my crappy Gimp skills at work18:26
yvlbut yes, it is not very obvious18:26
th1aThe standard size we display it will need to be as big as possible, unless we can jack it up inside the logo somehow.18:27
th1aapt-get install agave18:28
th1aif you want to play with colors.18:28
yvlalready have that one ;)18:28
th1aNot that I remember any of that color theory.18:28
yvlthat's why people build tools ;)18:29
th1aWell... people do all kinds of stupid shit with tools they don't understand.  ;-)18:29
yvlas for general look, the way I skinned it looks a bit too grayish -- again18:29
* yvl tends to gray things out :)18:29
th1aI think there is too much dark gray.18:30
th1aOh no... now I see it...18:30
yvl(then again, taken by-the-letter from Vinny's fast mock-up)18:30
yvloh my.18:31
yvlwell, "stuff that matters"18:31
th1aWorked for them.18:31
th1aI don't think we have to worry about teachers making that association.18:32
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th1aOK, I have to pick up Vivian.18:32
th1aI'll send a response to Vinny and show him this (so leave it up).18:33
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:33
th1aCatch you guys tomorrow.18:33
yvlsee you tomorrow18:34
yvland as for colors18:34
aelknercya yvl18:34
yvlyou could ask Vinny if he could "warm it up a bit"18:34
aelkneroh, th1a is the one that's leaving18:34
yvlwell, me too :)18:34
aelknerok, then cya was correct18:34
yvlit's ice cold now...18:34
th1aI'm not sure how we'd warm up the teal.18:35
yvlmake it not teal :D18:35
yvlgreen? :D18:35
th1aIt is livelier than blue.18:35
th1aBetter orange, I'd say.18:35
yvlwell, that's what we hire them for ;)18:35
yvlUbuntu took the warm colours :|18:35
yvlsee you guys tomorrow!18:36
* th1a out.18:36
yvlhappy coding, aelkner ;)18:36
aelknerthanks yvl18:36
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jboisturejelkner: can we get started? I need to get going around 1.19:33
jelkneri'm chatting with mattva01 on google talk19:38
jelkneri'll ask him to move here19:39
jboistureokay great19:39
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jelknerwhy does it say "You are currently teaching the following classes: HILT A - ICT"?19:40
jelknerI am teaching that class19:40
jelknerbut I have 2 others as well19:40
jelknerhow do i choose?19:40
jelknerjboisture, i believe you should answer this one ;-)19:41
jboistureshoot, I guess I didn't test it with more than one section of the same course19:41
jelknerthat's why we test19:42
jelkneractually, we may want to ask the ST guys about this19:42
jelknerbecause it occurs to me this may be a more general issue19:42
jelknerdoes ST treat each section-term as a separate section?19:43
mattva01it's like19:43
jelkneri hope19:43
jelknerso i need to see each section19:44
jelknernot each section-term19:44
jelknerjboisture, what do you say, same time tomorrow?19:44
jelkneri have more flexibility tomorrow19:44
jelkneri'm here until 7 pm or later19:44
jboisturelets do it at 2 if thats fine I have class around now19:45
jelknerwe need to keep running this play until we get it right19:45
mattva01works for me19:45
mattva01it's easier for me to make 219:45
jelkner2 pm works for me too19:45
jelknerok, mattva01 - can you be here at 2?19:45
mattva01jelkner: yeah19:45
jboistureok great talk to you all then19:45
jelknersee you tomorrow at 2, jboisture, with all sections visible19:45
jboistureyes thats the plan19:46
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th1aaelkner: ayt?20:22
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aelknerth1a, i'm here21:43
th1aDid we add contacts to the excel import at some point?21:43
aelknerno, we don't have a contacts folder coded yet21:45
aelknerconfused my terms there21:47
th1aProbably that's something we should try to squeeze in the release...21:47
aelknerwe need to start by updating sample_data.xls to have the Contacts sheet21:47
th1aBut I want to make sure yvl and replaceafill haven't done it at some point for one reason or another that didn't get into trunk somehow.21:48
aelknerwe would need to discuss how to format that best for the user21:48
th1aI feel like I had this conversation before.21:48
aelknerthen I could work on my own on getting it to work21:48
th1aLet's just double check tomorrow.21:48
th1aIt should be pretty straightforward.21:48
aelknerok, we're still doing mon, tues, thurs, right?21:48
aelknerok, so i don't need as many tasks for tomorrow as i would for thurs21:49
aelkneri found unit test bugs in schooltool.gradebook21:50
aelknerhaven't checked intervention yet, but i can fin an fix those21:50
aelkneryou figure i should just take any bug in my queue and fix it21:50
th1aAlso, Done's and the double absence thing and yes, other bugs.21:51
aelknerok, i'll keep busy21:51
aelknerhow about the nfl, i think our fortunes are gong in opposite directions21:52
aelkneri mean, i don't want to rub a sore spot, but what's up with the AFC chanps?!21:52
th1aWell, I thought the Steelers were all going to get old at the same time LAST YEAR.21:52
th1aSo maybe they just delayed that one more year.21:53
aelknerthey didn't get a good rookies in the las two drafts?21:53
th1aAlso, post-Super Bowl loss letdown.21:53
aelknerah, yeas, that21:53
th1aYes, but not as many as they'd need to replace.21:53
th1aHarrison had back surgery.21:53
aelkneri heard a stat once about how often super bowl losers don't even make the playoffs21:54
aelknerugh, Harrison is out?21:54
th1aAnd the defense is complicated, so it takes time to get really good.21:54
th1aOffseason surgery.21:54
aelknerback but slowed?21:54
th1aBut he's not exactly a guy who beats you with his brain.21:54
th1aYeah, just not in peak shape.21:54
aelknerwell, you guys have had enough success lately, time to step aside and let the OTHER Penn. team enjoy some21:55
th1aYour turn to lose in the Super Bowl.21:55
aelkneryeah, right :)21:56
th1aThe Steelers game might have been a bit of a fluke, but I'm not counting on it.21:57
th1aWell... actually their getting to the Super Bowl last year was the real fluke.21:57
th1aSneaking your way into the Super Bowl is a sure way to have a bad following season.21:59
aelkneri suppose21:59
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* replaceafill is back...22:08
replaceafillth1a sorry that i missed the meeting22:08
replaceafilli just saw jelkner gave you my message22:08
* replaceafill needs to write th1a's phone number on a paper :)22:09
replaceafillaelkner you there?22:09
th1areplaceafill: 401-785-364822:10
replaceafillth1a thanks22:11
th1aI'm in the book.  ;-)22:11
replaceafillth1a should i follow you with the spanish translation?22:12
replaceafilli mean, after you push22:12
th1aOh, I'm not going to get started on that today, but generally yes.22:12
replaceafillyou meant the phone book :P22:12
th1aI'm mulling over colors.22:12
replaceafilli though you were on the schooltool book :D22:13
th1alol yes.22:13
th1areplaceafill:  I guess yvl got done with everything I need as far as the ui protoype.22:16
replaceafillth1a ah ok22:16
replaceafilli'm looking at his instance22:16
aelknerreplaceafill, what's up?22:17
replaceafillaelkner have you started with this journal bug:
replaceafilli tracked down and i know how to fix it22:17
replaceafillcan i take it?22:17
aelknercool, take it22:17
replaceafillaelkner thanks, will do22:18
* replaceafill likes the teal version :)22:18
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