IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2011-09-05

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th1a hi yvl, menesis, aelkner, replaceafill.16:30
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
* th1a is still getting situated...16:33
th1aI still need to label these, get the sequence right, etc.16:34
th1aI decided the screencast would wait until the release.16:34
th1aSince doing that *well* takes more lead time.16:34
yvlteaser screenshots... good ones :)16:36
th1aI just have to add some haggard looking webcam shots of myself to complete the effect.16:36
th1aOK.  What's up yvl?16:37
yvlI fixed some more breadcrumb links16:38
yvland some view permissions16:38
yvlalso tested more teacher / student ST usage scenarios16:39
yvlso -  a bunch of notes on broken / not implemented / need enhancement things16:39
yvlsome highlights:16:40
yvlstudent gradebook and journal is quite broken16:40
yvlas in - not working at all16:40
replaceafilli'm working on the journal version16:40
yvlcool :)16:41
yvlteacher section view permissions need a bit of input from th1a16:41
yvlwill get to that in a moment16:41
yvlgroup and resource leaders have a tough time navigating to their groups or resource16:42
yvlschool resource list is semi-public16:42
th1aAh... leaders.16:42
yvlworking better than one could expect, actually ;)16:42
th1aGood point.16:42
yvlok, as for section16:42
yvlbasically you get "all-or-nothing" edit permissions for a section16:43
yvland probably the best short-term solution would be "only clerks/admins edit anything for a section"16:43
th1aWhy is all or nothing a problem?16:44
yvlone sec.16:44
yvleither you can edit courses / terms / members / teachers or you can't16:46
yvlmaybe it's worth having an optional permission for teachers to edit, say, only memeber16:46
th1aThat's the main thing some people want teachers to be able to do.16:47
yvlso I'll look into it16:47
yvlshould I add setting in server access rights?16:47
yvl* a setting16:47
yvlanother thing16:47
yvlif you only have view permissions for a section, you can't see it's members, terms, etc.16:48
yvlonly name16:48
yvland they were actually implemented as "if you can delete a section" permission16:48
th1aWho has view permissions?16:48
yvladministration, section instructors, section memebers16:49
yvlor everybody -- a server setting16:49
th1aYeah, that's not quite right.16:49
yvledit permissions currently limited to administration and section instructors16:49
th1aOK, so the thing here is that the members are sensitive in some cases.16:50
th1aAnd the instructors are only if you are paranoid.16:50
yvlour security policy *is* called ParanoidSecurityPolicy ;)))16:51
th1aOthewise, the basic info isn't sensitive.16:51
yvlso we need to "split" permissions16:51
yvlnot hard, but not trivial16:51
yvlactually, same goes to person permissions16:51
yvlthere are many places where person names are shown as links16:51
th1aMight as well lump instructor names with student names for the purpose of permissions.16:52
* yvl would prefer instructor names being "more" public16:53
th1aI would be easily persuaded.16:53
yvlI think if you make basic section information public, it's kind of good to know who teaches what16:53
yvlAlso I think that it would take less burden on the system if we keep person links as links, instead of filtering by permissions to view them16:54
th1aI just happen to live in the most paranoid country in the world for this sort of thing.16:54
th1aBut I know we're outliers.16:54
yvlwe can always add one more security setting :)16:55
menesisI had to deal with this bug over the weekend16:55
menesisthat teachers names are not visible to students16:55
yvlI think we should make a rule - anybody who can see a person name as a link, should be able to look at person's page, without getting to login screen, but seeing only his basic information - name and such16:55
menesisthey get a traceback instead of section view16:56
yvlright, menesis16:56
th1aWell, another thing is that in most of those cases I'd really rather a pop-up come up anyhow.16:56
yvlgood point!16:57
th1aYou usually don't want to leave the context anyhow.16:57
yvlso we'll leave it as is for now?16:57
th1aThat's what I'm thinking.16:57
yvlthat's my report then16:57
yvlI'll lump up my notes and email to you later today16:58
aelknerdid you look at the no_current_term.html situation i mentioned in my note?16:59
th1aOK.  That'll be helpful.16:59
yvlah, right!16:59
yvlthanks for fixing the bugs, aelkner16:59
aelknerthanks for finding them16:59
yvlI grepped for no_current_term and did not find the redirects you mentioned17:00
yvlbut there are places where the template is rendered when there is no current term17:00
aelknerdid you look in gradebok and intervention or just in core?17:00
yvl+ journal17:00
yvlthat was a bit odd actually17:01
yvlso, "no term" template is mostly rendered in various reports17:01
aelkneryeah, that is odd17:01
aelkneri just saw one this weekend, now i can't find it17:01
yvland I think those reports are either ported to dialog that allows selecting term / year17:01
aelknerah, fond one17:01
yvlor... well, they should be!17:01
yvlthere are no redirects to no_current_term.17:02
menesisthere were redirects previously17:03
aelknerjust a load of a template called no_currrent_term17:03
menesisbut the view was defined in gradebook17:03
menesissince intervention was made independent of gradebook17:03
menesisthose redirecs were changed to instead render a no_current_term template17:03
menesisin many places17:03
yvlI think those pdf views should be flourished17:04
yvlto allow selection of a term17:04
menesisand that page is not helpful at all! it only prevents an exception17:04
yvlit should throw NotFound, IMHO17:05
aelknerwell, preventing an exception is the first order17:05
aelknerbut i agree it is not any more helpful than that17:05
aelknerNotFound is not very helpfule17:05
th1ayvl:  A HTML error, not a traceback.17:05
aelkneryes, that's what he means17:06
yvlbasically - HTML 40417:06
menesisat least it should have a link to page where to add a term17:06
yvlthere is no such thing in a system17:06
aelknerbut i think the user should be told what to do, no?17:06
yvland then - hide the links17:06
th1aIf something is not found, yes, a 404 is correct.17:06
aelkner404 means that the site does not have recognize a url17:06
aelknerthis is not the case for us17:07
yvl404 means that something is not there17:07
yvland if there is no term, there is no report for that term17:07
aelknerwe like the url, but the user needs to set up a term17:07
yvlI'd rather remake the links to be dialogs that allow you to select a term17:07
yvlthere are some other report dialogs that behave this way, and I think it's quite useful17:07
yvlbut we should probably go over this on case-by-case basis17:08
replaceafillwhere can i see these non-dialog links?17:08
replaceafillsorry, reports17:08
th1aIs this related to the bug where if you log out in a different window and then click on a link to intervention you get Not Found instead of a login?17:08
aelknerno, but that's a valid issue in itself17:09
yvlhmm, I don't think so17:09
aelknerbut one thing at a time17:09
aelknerth1a, come to think of it, the case you just mentioned may be the result of redirecting to no_current_Term17:10
aelknerand then the NotFound comes up, but i'm not sure about that17:10
yvlI think that that's because intervention tab is under /person/teacher030/...17:11
yvland when you log in as a different user, there's no way to traverse there17:11
yvlor something like that17:11
yvlin any case17:12
yvlI think the no_current_term thing should work like...17:12
yvlRequestStudentReportView in gradebook17:13
yvlit opens a download dialog that gives you no options when there are no terms to select17:13
yvlbut if there are, you select term and get the report17:14
yvlI think those pages *then* check for current term17:14
yvlbut can't speak for all of such cases off hand17:14
yvl(point being that the check is overzealous)17:15
yvl(and it should throw NotFound if user entered the link by hand)17:15
yvlbut - that's just my opinion17:15
aelkneryvl, RequestStudentReportView doesn't work like that17:16
aelknerit presents no_current_term template, no17:16
th1aIf I see our Not Found page, we're sending a 404, right?17:16
aelknerin the __call_ method17:17
aelknerit doesn't redirect, but does load a no_current_term template that uses the old page macro17:17
aelknerthat should fail in flourish even though it wouldn't be notfoind17:18
aelknerit would probably just look really bad17:18
yvlthe page is now a dialog, right?17:18
yvlso *it* should not throw not found17:18
yvlit - the dialog - should render the no_current_term template17:19
yvlas it does now17:19
yvlbut the flourished version of it, that fits the dialog17:19
yvlthe .pdf views should not do the double-checking-and-rendering-the-no_current_term17:19
yvlthey should either be or not be in the system17:19
yvlmakes sense?17:20
aelkneryvl, please clarify 'as it does now'17:22
aelknerthe way i see it, the no_current_term template is not ready for flourish17:22
yvlthe dialog now checks if there is a current term and renders no_current_term template if there is no current term?17:22
aelkneryes, but it has the page macro17:22
aelknerour content templates odn't use that anymore17:22
yvloh, wait17:22
yvlthe flourished dialog overshadows __call__ I think17:23
yvlI'll look more closely at it tomorrow if that's ok17:23
yvllet's not drag the meeting too long ;)17:23
aelknerthe would be nice yvl, thanks17:24
th1aThanks yvl.17:24
th1aLet's move on to menesis.17:24
yvlbut thanks for bringing this up, aelkner17:24
aelknersure thing17:24
aelknerlook at availableTerms in that view, it will crash17:24
aelknerthat's why __call__ had the protection17:25
aelkneranyway, moving on17:25
aelknersorry menesis, i'm done interrupting17:26
menesisI have merged replaceafill's fixes to cando and schooltool courses17:27
menesisand also XLS import fixes17:27
menesisto all schooltool branches (trunk 1.6 1.5 1.4)17:28
menesismerged translations to 1.4 branch17:28
menesisand made a 1.4.4 release for lucid17:29
menesissource is released, deb is waiting to build17:29
menesisuploaded it to if they need it sooner17:29
th1aCanDo debs are waiting to build?17:30
menesisno, schooltool debs17:30
menesiscando debs are there since yesterday17:31
menesisI have made cando compatible with newer schooltool releases than they use17:32
menesisand trunk17:32
menesistrunk removed schooltool.help17:32
th1aSo can Matt apt-get upgrade?17:32
menesisbut cando were hiding that Help link already, so I removed it completely17:32
menesisand I also had to workaround the bug I mentioned today17:32
menesisth1a: to get cando update, yes17:33
menesisbut I think they need both17:34
menesisCanDo added new ethnicity values17:34
th1aSo... when do we know if the ST debs are ready?17:34
menesisand SchoolTool fixed copying of course attributes on add new year17:35
menesisand made it possible to enter 6.5 credits17:35
menesisI uploaded the deb to our server17:36
th1aOh... right, CanDo users use the PPA anyhow, right?17:36
menesislucid users use the PPA17:37
th1amenesis:  I really just need you to ping Matt when this is ready.17:37
th1a(and me)17:37
menesisestimate says "in 13 hours"17:38
menesisso I was busy with bugfixes to old releases the last two days17:39
menesisand made no progress towards release of flourish packages17:39
th1aThat's next.  ;-)17:39
aelknermenesis, i saw you fixed some tests, is that correct?17:40
menesisaelkner: maybe.17:41
aelknerbecause i thought if you were fixing tests17:41
aelknerthat could mean we were thinking about getting tests to work?17:41
th1aDidn't we discuss this last week?17:42
menesisI fixed most of gradebook/flourish tests last week17:42
menesisbut no, I am not working on that17:42
th1amenesis has packaging to do now.17:43
aelknerok, never mind then17:43
th1aOK, thanks menesis.17:43
aelkneri fixed the linked column view bug replaceafill found17:45
aelknerit was related to the fix i had to make in another view earlier17:45
aelknerit needed to parse the linked column source better17:45
aelknerthe sample data exposed the bug by having _ in the section's __name__ attribute17:46
aelkneri'm guessing the nameschooser doesn't put _ in the name, but the sample data doesn't use the names chooser17:46
aelknerbut that's a guess, anyway, it is fixed now17:47
aelkneralso, i created the view.html of the student gradebook17:47
aelknerbut we don't have a link to it yet, but you and i were going to talk about a person accoridon17:47
aelkneranyway, i can show the view at least17:48
aelknerone sec on that link17:48
aelkneralso, in the process, i found a bug in the index.html view of the student gradebook17:48
aelkneractually, two bugs, it turns our17:48
aelkneron is that it allows the user to edit cells that are not editable in the spreadsheet17:49
aelknerlinked activities and linked columns get their data from another source, so the user can't dit17:49
aelkneri'll fix that right away17:49
aelknerthe other bug i just found is that linked activities can be assigned scores from the student gradebook view17:50
th1aOK, so you have things to do and we can talk about an interventions accordion later?17:50
aelknerbtw, i'm referring to what you renbranded as 'Score Student'17:50
* th1a is trying to wrap this up...17:50
aelkneri did have a question17:51
th1aGo ahead.17:51
aelknerwell, i guess it can wait17:51
aelknerit's about ot being able to delete activities17:51
th1aI was wondering about that.17:51
th1aDid we lose that or never have it?17:51
aelknerlost it, should we wait for the bag of gravel?17:51
th1aIf it is just a question for me, we can save it.17:52
th1aThanks aelkner.17:52
replaceafilli fixed some unit tests in app and level packages17:52
replaceafillyvl i removed the tests for LevelContainerContainer, since we dont use it anyway17:52
replaceafillbut removing tests felt not right :)17:53
replaceafillthat's why i mention it17:53
replaceafillalso, did some small changes: like adding title/subtitle to the database view17:53
replaceafillah, and put 0s back in absences and tardies columns in the gradebook17:54
replaceafilli'm in the middle of the student view for the journal17:54
replaceafillwe're meeting tomorrow, right?17:55
th1aWe'll do Mon/Tue/Thurs for a while.17:55
replaceafillk, i'll save some of my questions then17:55
replaceafillthat's it from me17:55
th1aOK, thanks guys.17:55
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:55
th1aaelkner:  I need to make some food.  Catch you in 30?17:55
aelknerreplaceafill, did you notice that spreadsheet behavior is gone from the gradebook?17:57
replaceafillaelkner ah!?!?17:57
aelknertry hitting the down arrow, it used to move up and down the cells17:57
aelkneryou know about this?17:58
replaceafillnot that we lost it, that we had it17:58
aelknerdo you know how we lost it?17:58
replaceafillit works for me aelkner17:59
replaceafillleft, right, up and down17:59
yvlsee you tomorrow guys!18:00
replaceafillaelkner do you have a url for a non working version?18:00
aelknerweird, hitting the down arrow goes to the bottom18:01
aelknerup arrow i mean18:01
aelknerdown arrow,, nothing18:01
replaceafillaelkner username?18:02
replaceafillnever mind18:02
aelknernote the 4 for the Journal average, that's the bug i mentioned before18:02
replaceafillaelkner confirmed, it happens when you have a linked activity + regular activity18:06
aelkneri was thinking the same thing18:07
replaceafilli can take a look at it18:07
replaceafillor do you want to do it?18:07
aelknerreplaceafill, perhaps i should fix this bug while i'm mucming around fixing other ones18:07
aelknerthis way we can stay out of each other's way conflicts-wise18:07
replaceafillgo ahead then18:07
replaceafillbut keep testing the journal behaviour too18:07
aelknerwe don't want to spend hours working on that again like last week :)18:07
replaceafillremember it's a shared resource18:08
replaceafillalthough in the journal we dont have linkded columns ;)18:08
aelknerah, yes18:08
aelkneryou know, if the fix is in core, i'd say you go ahead, what do you think?18:08
replaceafillyes, it's core now18:09
aelkneri'll stick to the gradebook changes18:09
aelknerif you need to make a small change there, it wouldn't be a big hassel to resolve the small conflict18:09
replaceafilli'll ping you if i need to make a change to the gradebook18:10
aelknercool, thanks18:10
replaceafillthank you18:10
th1aok aelkner18:36
aelknerwhat would you like to discuss first18:41
th1aUp to you.18:41
aelknerok, we can't delete activities18:41
aelknerin the old skin there was a worksheet view18:41
aelknerthere you could click a checkbox and hit Delete18:41
aelknerwe could add Delete to the activity menu18:42
th1aI think we dropped a couple steps in the column menus.18:42
th1aThey should have delete, move left, move right.18:42
aelknerah, those, too, ok18:43
aelknershall i just go ahead and add those to my short term task list?18:43
th1aNear the top.18:44
aelknerok, done18:44
aelknerthe view.htl of a student gradebook18:44
aelknerit is for reference, not edit like the index.html (Score Student)18:45
aelknerit was linked in the intervention view, now we want an person accordion, right?18:45
th1aThis contains a list of relevant score sheets?18:46
aelknerall deployed report sheets, didn't think any were not relevant18:46
aelknerthere is the matter of years18:47
aelknerin the person view, we don't have any year fixed18:47
aelknerlist every report sheet from every year would be overkill18:47
th1aNot really.18:48
th1aWell, there is one per subject or per term?18:48
aelkneryeah, i guess that's ok, kind of like a transcript18:48
aelknerthe table in interventions had on per section/report sheet pair18:49
aelknerin other words18:49
aelknertwo report sheets per section, student has 10 classes per year18:49
aelknerlet's say four years18:49
aelknerthat makes 4 * 10 * 2 = 80 rows in the table18:49
aelkneroh, i forgot terms18:50
aelknerthat adds another multiplier18:50
th1aCan we consolidate those?18:50
th1aYou don't need to choose with that granularity.18:50
th1aJust per section?18:50
aelknerwell, if you and i can brainstorm a way somehow18:50
th1aSection view shows all the report sheets for that person/section for the year?18:51
aelknerhow do you mean, by section18:51
th1aLinked sections, I guess.18:51
th1aFrom the person's point of view you just need to do it by course.18:51
th1aAll sections for a course/year.18:51
th1aSo I see18:52
th1aEnglish 2008-200918:52
th1aAlgebra 2 2008-200918:52
th1aWorld History 2008-200918:53
th1aWhich links to a view with all the report sheets associated with sections of that course.18:53
th1ai.e., linked sections.18:53
th1aShould this just link to the report cards?18:55
th1aAnd leave it at that?18:55
aelknerthe idea is for a responsible user (admin or advisor included) to look in on report card data18:57
aelknereven before the repeort cards are printed18:57
aelkneror even laid out for that matter18:57
th1aThe idea is just that you're checking up on a kid, so you'd like to see their grades.18:57
aelknerso just a report card is needed?18:58
aelknerbut if it's not laid out yet18:58
aelknerwhat then?18:58
th1aCan we tell that before we render the accordion?18:58
aelknersure, it could check for the existence of a report card layout i suppose18:59
aelknerlet's say yes18:59
aelknerso, you'd like the accordion to list just years, each link downloading the report card?19:00
th1aI think this conversation is disappearing up its own asshole.19:00
aelkneryou have a colorful way of putting things sometimes :)19:00
aelknerbut why don't you tell me how you really feel?19:00
th1aSo really, I can just go to the sidebar and hit Student Report Card.19:01
th1aI'm not mad.19:01
aelknerno, i knew19:01
th1aIt is just that it is already covered really.19:01
th1aWhich is good!19:01
th1aOnes less thing to do.19:01
aelkneryeah, what's the point of view.html is what you're saying19:01
th1aBTW, what do I get if there is no report card now?19:01
aelknerredirect to info view saying lay one out19:02
aelknermay not be ready in flourish19:02
th1aCheck into that.19:02
aelkneraother issue19:03
aelknerwe need to block users from adding/editing activities in deployed report sheets, right?19:03
aelknerfunny we never thought of this19:03
aelknerso the column menu in that case you just have Score19:04
aelknernot Edit, Delete, Move left, ertc.19:04
th1aI don't think it is harmful if you just add or edit.19:04
th1aIt doesn't break the reports.19:05
aelkneri considered that19:05
aelkneri jsut wonder if it is prudent to allow the user to confuse the contents of a worksheet19:05
th1aOn one hand, someday we'll get bizarre bug reports.19:05
aelknerthat is expected to be uniform across the whole school19:06
th1aIt is more just a question of the complexity of the fix.19:06
th1aIf it is not easy, skip it.19:06
aelknerleaving things out of the menu should be easy i think19:06
aelknereven even hiding the Add -> Activity link should be straight-forward19:07
aelknerso i have many tasks now19:07
aelknerand i'll eave the view.html view in place even though we don;'t link to it19:08
aelknerit can't hurt to have the flourish version in place19:08
th1aI need to look at it.19:08
aelkneroh, that, let me give you a lnk19:09
aelkneras teacher001, this is the score student view19:10
aelknernow the view.html of the same student gradebook:19:10
aelknerthe title and subtitle could be rearranged a bit19:11
aelkneri got the student, section and worksheet title in there19:12
aelknerbut i don't know if it reads well, what do you think?19:12
th1aWhy not just a table?19:12
th1aTwo columns.19:13
aelknercomment score systems19:13
aelknerwe use html widgets for those19:13
th1aCan you just make the view put the comments below the table?19:13
aelknerso we just wrap the result in a <p> element19:13
aelknercomment scoresystem activities are not comments on the worksheet19:14
aelknerthey are cells in the whole scheme of things19:14
aelknerhow is the user to understand the sudden transplantation of cols 3 an 5 to the bottom of a table?19:14
th1aThe user doesn't necessarily know the sequence of columns in the teacher gradebook.19:15
aelknerwell, they may be the teacher19:15
th1aOverall, a table would be much easier to read.19:15
aelkneri'm checking the code19:17
aelknerand it seems like it would be ok to put the <p> elements in col two of a table as you said19:18
aelknerso col 1 is the activity label and col two the value19:18
th1aYes.  That would be an improvment.19:19
aelknerand even of there are multiple <p> elements in a cell (as is the case wth comments)19:19
aelknerthat would be ok19:19
aelknerok,i'll add that to the task list19:19
aelkneri think that's enough19:19
th1aThat should keep you going until tomorrow morning.  ;-)19:20
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