IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2011-07-18

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th1a dontfearthereaper16:21
* th1a changes his gmail password...16:24
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aelknerth1a, just don't make it blueoystercolt :)16:31
th1ahi replaceafill, aelkner, menesis.16:31
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
aelknermorning all16:31
th1aaelkner:  I think it would be fine with your typo.16:31
aelknerhow do you spell it?16:32
aelkneroh, cult16:32
th1aWhere are we?16:34
* th1a is trying to get his head back in the game after a week in Maine and 36 innings of base ball on Long Island.16:34
replaceafilli'm working on the Application Control views16:35
replaceafillzodb, translations domains and generations16:35
replaceafilli also have to fix the student form in Cambodia16:36
replaceafilli forgot to include some fields when i moved them to use the demographics fields16:36
replaceafillparents data16:37
th1aAh, ok.  That's the bug Chandara was referring to?16:39
th1aWe should be wrapping up the oddball views soon then?16:42
replaceafillth1a yes16:42
replaceafilltoday i think16:42
th1aI just slowed you down a little improving the email views.16:43
replaceafillah, i need to work on the "Errors" view too16:43
replaceafillit's at /++etc++site/default/RootErrorReportingUtility16:43
replaceafillth1a that's it from me :)16:45
th1aHere's a question for the audience.16:46
th1aDoes anyone remember why "teaching levels" are in years?16:46
aelknerreplaceafill should know that one16:46
replaceafillaelkner ?16:46
aelkneri thought we did that for cambodia16:46
replaceafillcambodia use them :)16:47
aelknerany given year can decide to have differnet levelsw16:47
aelknerlike if the school makes a policy change, right?16:47
aelknerSLA only had freshmen when it started16:48
aelknerthe next year it had two levels16:48
th1aDoing them by year is overkill.16:48
aelknerth1a, i must warn you, making data model changes at this point will be costly16:49
th1aWe should probably table that view until we see if we have time to fix the whole thing.16:49
aelknerright, until the release16:49
th1aI don't think it would be that costly.16:50
th1aBecause we don't have to respect the data at this point.16:50
aelknerthere's a lot of code that depends on the data model16:50
aelkneri don't think you are taking the cost of changing code into consideration16:50
th1aDo levels do anything?16:50
replaceafillnot much related to levels though16:51
menesislevels do nothing16:51
menesisexcept in cambodia16:51
th1aIf we made a simple mistake on a system that does nothing, we should just fix it.16:51
aelknerwell, there are still lines of code out there in the levell package16:51
menesisjust skip levels now16:52
aelknerconsidering the limited time we have left before the release16:52
aelknerand the many tasks that we haven't even discussed but that are vital16:53
aelkneri think it would be a mistake to add data model work, even if it were a small three day task16:53
th1aThe more immediate point is that I don't want to write the levels views right now, and we'll decide later.16:54
aelkner+1 for skipping levels16:54
th1aIt is simply a question of how much time we have.16:55
th1aMoving on...16:55
th1aaelkner, where are you at this point.16:55
aelknerok, so i worked on the schoolyear add/edit widget discriminator errors16:56
aelknerthose errors that used to be at the top, but needed to be next to the widget16:56
aelkneroverlapping year, first day after last day, etc.16:56
aelknerthat was tricky, but i finally got it to work16:57
aelknerthen i coded the activate school year view16:57
aelkneri didn't do it as a modal because i thought maybe you would reconsider after seeing it16:57
aelkneri mean, if a school has been around for long enough, then listing all the years in a modal would be ugly16:58
th1aThat's fine.16:58
aelknerthen i created the /terms view16:58
aelknerwe should go over these views after the meeting to discuss details16:59
aelknerthat's it for me16:59
replaceafillaelkner in /terms those <th> should be in <thead> correct?17:00
aelknershucks, i forgot that part17:00
aelkneranyway, we can go over this after th1a drops the bag of gravel17:01
* th1a dropd the bag of gravel.17:02
aelknerchange in instance:17:03
aelknerth1a, we don't have many views for terms yet, so i had to change an older version of the DATA.fs17:04
aelknerbecause evolution prevents us from modifying any of our demo data with old schooltool anymore17:04
aelkneri hope you don't miss any data you set up in my instance17:04
th1ai didn't.17:05
th1aCan we do subheads by year?17:05
aelknerno accordions?17:06
aelknerit would be easy to add them17:06
aelknerso, no year column, subheads for year, colspan=3 so that it centers all the way across?17:06
aelknerok, i'll need a half hour or so for that, could you play around with years in the meantime?17:08
aelknerno link for the year i guess, right?17:10
aelkneri mean if it's in a <th>, do we want it to be a link?17:10
th1aThe error message in the year form is a bit misaligned.17:13
th1aIf you have a school year that ends before it begins.17:13
replaceafilli guess it's because the [...] button of the calendar widget17:14
replaceafillwe're getting rid of it, right?17:15
replaceafillwhen we change to jquery datepicker17:15
th1aWell, I guess we should be doing that now.17:15
aelknershould we have a 'there a no terms' message for years with no terms?17:19
aelkneralso, year date range next to ttle in parens?17:19
aelkneri see you added a test year17:19
th1aI want to limit years to 12 characters.17:20
aelknerto both?17:20
aelkneri forgot, you did ask me to limit years to 1217:21
th1aProbably "This year has no terms defined." would be good.17:22
th1aLooks good.17:36
aelknerreplaceafill, what's the best way to limit the size of a TextLine field?17:44
aelkneri can't find anything like max_chars in zope.schema17:44
replaceafillif i remember correctly17:46
aelkneryeah, i think i need to change the field17:48
aelknerfields['title'].max_length = 1217:48
aelknerthat didn't work17:50
replaceafillaelkner try setting .maxlength on the widget17:56
aelknerstill nothing17:57
aelknerwhat is the <input> element attribute for maxlength?17:57
aelkneris it with or without the underscore?17:58
replaceafillcheck z3c.form.browser.interfaces. IHTMLTextInputWidget17:58
aelknerah, i changed the wrong interface17:59
* replaceafill goes to get breakfast18:00
* aelkner does the same18:15
th1areplaceafill, aelkner, you back?18:45
replaceafillth1a yes18:45
th1aIt looks like I have to go get a new tire.18:45
aelknerth1a, i'm back18:50
aelknerusing pdb to figure out why maxlength doesn't get rendered18:50
replaceafillaelkner did you set it in updateWidgets in your form?18:51
aelknerin other words, i have stuff to do til you get back18:51
aelknerno, didn't think to do that18:51
aelknerhave we done that before?18:52
replaceafilltry it18:52
* th1a goes to get a new tire.18:57
aelknerreplaceafill, that works!18:59
aelknerth1a, have you left yet?18:59
aelknernp, i can do breadcrumbs for now19:04
aelknerwhat am i doing wrong to not get the message coming out?19:06
aelknerafter the red *, i mean19:06
replaceafillwhat should i do?19:06
replaceafillyou're setting label on the form19:07
replaceafillyou need legend19:07
replaceafillor the fieldset logic19:07
aelknercss logic?19:07
replaceafillyour form needs to have a fieldset19:07
replaceafillwith a legend19:07
aelknerthe macro, you mean, right?19:07
aelkneroh, sorry, no macro19:08
replaceafillare you using the template?19:08
replaceafillthe one you added legend to?19:08
aelknerno, add schoolyear is more complicated19:08
aelknerso i cloned19:08
aelknerit does use the macro19:09
aelknerbut it has other stuff, too19:09
aelkneryeah, i get your sarcasm19:09
replaceafillwell, your fieldset needs a legend19:09
aelkneri'm not going there now :)19:09
aelknerit's the macro that needs the legend19:09
replaceafillwhy dont you insert the legend part19:09
aelkneri have two fieldsets19:09
aelknerthe one the macro renders, and the one my template renders19:10
aelknercould it be a problem with having two fieldsets?19:10
replaceafilli only see one fieldset...19:10
aelknerreplaceafill, sorry, i'm going nuts hear19:10
aelknerconfusing add with edit views19:10
aelknerand taking you down in the process :)19:10
replaceafillyes, this is the edit form with just one fieldset19:11
aelknersorry for the confusion, anyway, my view needs a label, that's all19:12
aelknercrap, it already has one19:13
aelknerreplaceafill, the macro renders the label as <h3>19:14
replaceafillaelkner remember you included a legend attribute in the template?19:15
replaceafillwhy don't you use that?19:15
aelknerah, legend19:15
aelknerreplaceafill, much better:19:19
replaceafilldefinitely :)19:19
aelknerso by changing the widget and not the interface, we don't need to evolve19:19
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aelknerbecause maxlength only stops the user from making the field larger19:20
aelknerand we don't want to punish the users who already have larger titles19:20
aelknerthough i doubt there are many that do19:20
aelknerso it's a win-win19:21
replaceafillare we changing Apply to Submit?19:21
aelknerth1a, has asked me to19:21
replaceafillah ok19:21
aelkneri think that is something he wants program wide19:21
replaceafillgood to know19:21
aelkneri think he is right that people understand submit better than apply19:22
aelknerapply implies applying for membership or something19:22
aelknerit's more of a techie database term, like apply the change to the data19:22
aelknernot everyone thinks that way19:23
aelknerhe may have gotten the idea from the book on forms19:23
aelkneri bought it, but haven't read it yet19:23
aelkneri guess i figured that just by buying it, i would absorb all its energy :)19:24
aelknerwhat the heck does :| mean?!19:26
aelkneri think you made up one there19:26
aelkneri checked the reference and everything19:27
aelkneris that like, 'no expression'19:27
aelknerare you being coy? :)19:27
replaceafillto me :| is "ah!??!"19:28
* replaceafill goes to take a shower19:28
aelkneryou know, ah is the same number of letters!19:29
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* th1a is back.21:10
th1aZope version: Meaningless?21:20
replaceafillyes :)21:20
replaceafillit was deprecated21:20
th1aCan we get rid of that line?21:20
replaceafill    def getZopeVersion():21:20
replaceafill        """Return a string containing the descriptive version of the21:20
replaceafill        current zope installation.21:20
replaceafill        Deprecated: the concept of a Zope version went away in the21:20
replaceafill        Zope Toolkit. It is unlikely this gives sensible results in21:20
replaceafill        many situations.21:20
replaceafill        """21:20
replaceafillbtw, those paths may split to multiple lines:
replaceafilli think that's ok, right?21:24
th1aThis is not exactly a critical screen, anyhow.21:24
replaceafillcool, will add the action butt.... links ;)21:24
aelknerth1a, can we talk about /settings and /manage?21:50
th1aI just put it at the top of my todo list for this week.21:51
th1aSo yes.21:51
aelknerwell, i don21:51
aelkneri don't have anything to offer up, but it would be nice to get some of these links for /schooyear, /terms, etc21:52
aelknerinto either of the two views21:52
aelknerwhat's you thinking at the highest level about the distinction21:52
aelknerbetween the two views, what they deal with, etc.?21:52
th1aIt is pretty much just server admin stuff in Application and school management stuff in School21:56
th1aI think.21:56
th1aI'm mainly concerned with the visual organization of each page.21:56
th1aThat I'm not sure of.21:56
aelknerso far we have
aelknerand it has a blank page in the middle with some a linkset on the side with links in it21:58
aelknerhow would the middle of the page even look?21:58
th1aJust pretend that does not exist.21:59
aelknercan we talk about what i can add and where?22:00
th1aWe're not really at that point yet.22:01
th1aActually adding the links is pretty trivial.22:01
th1aWhat are you worried about?22:02
th1aJust getting to the pages you're working on?22:02
aelknernot worried, just would like to not have to add two new bookmarks every time i deal22:02
aelknerwith a new /something22:02
aelknerif i could just click on Application of School to get to the link, that would be nice for me, but not important22:02
aelknerwhat would you like me to do next?22:03
th1aOK... looking at years again...22:03
th1aCan you make the already active year selected by default?22:04
aelknerkeep going22:06
th1aSort the years in descending order.22:06
th1aWhat about that new calendar widget?22:07
aelkneroh, in the /schooyears view22:07
aelknerwhat about the widget?22:07
th1areplaceafill brought it up... should we be switching that now?22:07
replaceafillth1a i think yvl wanted to work on that22:07
replaceafilltaking into account translations22:08
th1aAnd that won't need the extra button?22:08
replaceafilli dont think so22:08
replaceafillyou just focus the input field22:08
replaceafilland the calendar comes up22:08
th1aAlso "There were some errors." should not be our generic error message anymore.22:08
replaceafilli told aelkner that22:08
th1areplaceafill:  That's what I thought.22:08
th1aHint for year title form: "Limited to 12 characters or less."22:09
th1aChanges for new school year text:22:12
aelknerreplaceafill, what did you tell me?22:13
replaceafillabout the "There were some errors" message22:13
th1aI guess the problem is I don't understand this form.22:14
aelknerreplaceafill, tell me again22:14
th1aCan I only copy members of all groups and not just one?22:14
aelknerreplaceafill, or tell me at least why you told me that you told me22:14
replaceafillaelkner remember errors messages are displayed next to widgets now?22:15
aelkneryeah, you hacked the form to hide the list of errors22:16
aelknerso why did you not get rid of that message whlie you were at it22:16
aelknerif that's what we want22:16
th1aIt just needs to be updated to the better wording.22:16
replaceafillaelkner it's not possible to use the same view/status for all the forms ;)22:17
aelknerwhat do think we should do then?22:17
replaceafilluse a super magic baseclass with:22:17
replaceafillformErrorsMessage = _('Please correct the marked fields below.')22:17
aelkneri grepped that message, and it only appears in contact22:17
aelknerso obviously, it comes from z3c.form22:18
aelknerreplaceafill, we already have base classes, so don't call them super magic please22:18
aelknerthat makes e think i need to create a new class or something22:18
aelknerwe just need to change what we already have22:19
replaceafillth1a you still processing years, correct?22:20
replaceafill(i dont want to interrupt)22:20
th1aNo... resolve what you're talking about.22:20
replaceafillaelkner i agree, formErrorsMessage should be moved to skin.flourish.form.Form maybe...22:22
aelknerth1a, that's ok, i can look into that22:22
replaceafillth1a ok, question22:22
replaceafillthis is the current ZODB Control view22:22
replaceafillthat's my attempt22:23
replaceafillbut i dont like the input field and the button22:23
replaceafill+ the checkbox22:23
th1aLet's assume that since we can't undo, we don't need to keep X days.22:24
replaceafill0 by default22:24
th1aAnd then put the pack button in the table.22:24
th1a0 always.22:24
th1aYou only need that if you can undo.22:24
replaceafillth1a like an Action22:24
th1aLike the delete buttons.22:25
th1aIn the table row.22:25
th1a(not the sidebar)22:25
th1aAnd a done button.22:25
replaceafillah yes! Done22:25
replaceafillthe view can spit success/error messages22:25
replaceafillfor example22:25
replaceafillinsert foo for the input22:25
replaceafilland submit22:25
replaceafillin the core skin we don't show the messages! :)22:26
th1aSo... what do we need to do?22:26
replaceafilli guess one just assumes that if the size of the file changes the packing was successful :)22:27
replaceafillbut i can set the message above the table22:27
replaceafillif that's ok?22:27
th1aaelkner: Can I only copy members of all groups and not just one when making a new year?22:29
aelknerit would seem so22:30
aelkneri wouldn't recommend adding too many features of that nature when we22:31
aelknerhave so many things yet to be handled22:31
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aelknerlike gradebook, journal, intervention22:31
aelkneror am i mistaken that that stuff needs to be addressed in time foe the release22:32
th1aNo, but we need to fix this.22:32
th1aI'm not suggesting adding fuctionality.22:32
th1aJust making this view make sense.22:32
aelkneroh, so why do you think you can only copy all groups?22:33
th1areplaceafill: Is that right -- copy members only applies to all?22:34
th1aI'm just trying to interpret what this view is telling me.22:34
aelknerthese is a checkbox next to each group22:34
th1aWhy don't I see that.22:34
aelknerwith site managers not being available for copy22:34
th1aAre we looking at the same thing?22:35
aelkneryes, under Copy Members22:35
* replaceafill goes to see the view22:35
replaceafillth1a no22:35
th1aOh... why can't I copy members of built in groups?22:35
replaceafillit's just that the groups have no members22:35
replaceafillyou could try that in my instance22:35
replaceafilllet me see22:35
aelknerth1a, ah, i see it is missing on the demo serve for some reason22:35
th1aThis view is kind of magical.22:36
replaceafillaelkner this is in trunk, right?22:36
replaceafillif the group doesnt have members, there's no option to copy them!22:37
replaceafillmaybe a disabled checkbox would be better...22:37
replaceafillor a message22:37
aelkneryeah, i just saw that in the template22:37
th1aNo... it is only failing in the manager looking at empty database case.22:37
th1aIt is the right behavior.22:38
replaceafillth1a you design it :P22:38
th1aSlightly wrong design.22:38
* replaceafill goes back to /control22:38
th1aGet rid of the select all row.22:40
th1ais courses a separate table?22:41
aelknerit's a separate checkox, no table, only the checkbox for copying all courses22:46
aelknerthe checkbox is not present if there are no courses22:46
th1aIt is formatted as a table row though.22:46
aelknerthe table contains everything22:47
aelkner<td> elements are there for each row22:47
aelknerit's not the cleanest view in the world22:47
aelknersorry, <tr> elements for each row22:48
aelknerconditional on if active year has the type of stuff for that row22:48
th1aYes, ok make it a separate table.22:48
th1aGet rid of the select all row.22:49
th1aGive the group table headers:22:49
th1aGroup Name | Copy Group | Copy Members22:49
aelknerwhat about courses?22:51
th1aThen just as a question, "Copy courses from active year?"22:51
th1a(with checkbox)22:52
aelkneryes to what?22:52
th1aUnder groups.22:52
th1aYes to copying courses?22:52
aelknerthat wasn't what i was asking22:52
aelknerwe already copy courses22:52
aelkneryou said something about a table for that?22:52
th1aJust make it a question with a yes checkbox.22:53
th1aLike in the UWG.22:53
th1aUnder the group table.22:53
aelknerah. no change to list each course, good22:53
th1aIt is just confusing everything to try to jam it into the same table.22:53
aelknerwhy do you want to get rid of select all groups?22:54
th1aIt complexifies the form more than it helps.22:54
aelknerwouldn't it be a gotcha to not at least preselect all courses for copy?22:54
aelknergroups is what i meant22:54
th1aI guess that's not a bad idea.22:55
aelknerthen who needs select all22:55
aelknerok, i have plenty to do now22:56
th1aGood, because I have to go pick up the damn tire.22:56
th1aLater guys.22:56
* replaceafill goes to get lunch22:57
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